SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Is it worth it?
And which therapist you should really go for? More on EFT or LMFT?

H does not want to go for IC. Agreed to MC.

Agreed to "fix" our relationship and move on forward and I am really hoping that the MC will somewhat help us, atleast, for a jump start?
Not sure.

As much as I want to let go and have D, there is something in me that is holding it back. Kids? Financial stability? Name it. I just really can't. I know for a fact that I still love him as well but maybe not inlove with him. Its tainted already.

I feel it is the same for him but couldn't admit it. We don't really have that emotional intimacy and connection anymore. I, too, feel that we are giving this a chance for our children and who knows we will find our way back to each other in the long run. As long as, I can see any hope, I will give it a shot. Atleast I know I just did not give up so easily.

I am doing IC and that doesn't help so I am meeting another IC next week.

Talked to a lawyer as well about D and everything. D is our last resort for sure but we almost took that path last month. (Yeah, I know. I am all over the place, couldnt make up my mind.) I feel like it is just starting to sink in. 6 months post DDay.

For me, a betrayal trauma specialist was a really good fit for my IC.

MC is dependent on your counselor, and that can be hit or miss. Generally, we recommend IC for you to heal, IC for him to find out his whys and work on becoming a safe partner. When you've both reached a spot where you're ready, then MC can help. Many MCs will shift part of the blame for the A onto you (blameshift), especially if they're of the "unmet needs" school of thought. Frankly, if it were for unmet needs, I'd have been the one with the A. Some members have had fantastic MCs who would hold the WS's feet to the fire, so there are some good ones out there. Your M didn't cheat - he did.

To me, it's a red flag that he isn't willing to work on himself in IC. Has he read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald?

Thanks for your input leafields.
Yes, he did and TBH, I don't think he learned something from it or maybe it was just me not really seeing it. Problem is he is not consistent with his actions. He doesn't want to talk about the affair over and over again.

I would have to agree that it is a red flag for him not wanting to work himself but I am so tired telling him & make him understand that I think he needed it. I was surprised he agreed with MC.

At this point, I'll let him be for now. There are some days that are good & most of the days are meh/bad.

Is one of your IC goals 'to decide between D & R'? If not, why not add that as an objective?

Hi sisoon,

Yes, right now one of the goals in my IC is to fix it/R.

However, I am really having a hard time going pass through the impact of the affair and what he have done.

My previous therapists told me the usual by the book recommendations. I tried them all, worked a bit and then it goes back again.

I am really having a hard time. 😭 I don't understand myself anymore.

Clarity is a really good goal for IC.

It should come before trying to "fix" anything. It should come before trying to R.

Hi HardKnocks,

Can you elaborate more?
Clarity in what aspect specifically?

The fact that your WH agreed to MC but not IC is troubling to me because it indicates that he views his infidelity as a marriage problem (or worse, a problem with you) and not a problem entirely of his own making.

Your last Dday was only a month ago. What has he done since then to prove that he's worthy of a second chance? Why do you feel like the onus is on you to keep the family intact when you weren't the one that broke it?

Hi BluerthanBlue,

You are right. For him, he thinks it was our marriage and it was my fault, unfortunately. 😔

Since he doesn't want to do IC, I thought MC will help somehow since our marriage is not that good pre-affair.

I am not justifying what he did but a part of me knows that I, too, is at fault because I disregarded his needs -- emotionally & physically.
I know there is no enough reason in this world to cheat and he knows that but he still choose to do it.

To be honest, I have all the reasons to D him. As much as I want to, I don't know but I can't do it. He has been a good husband to me pre-affair, good father, our rel/marriage and everything was good and we never had a big argument and all. I just don't know how we ended up like this. I cannot just throw our 12 year relationship just like that and I hope I won't regret giving him a last chance.

When I said about DDay 2 is when I found out that they actually started 2 months earlier than I originally thought but no other active affair/new affair. Not sure if that is considered DDay 2. If not, so sorry for the confusion.

He regrets and seem remorseful. Gave access on all the emails, phone and bank accounts.
He is a little bit more open now and is trying to work on the emotional intimacy. Slow progression but it is there.
Read the book on how to help your spouse heal from the affair (though I dont think he took that seriously TBH).
All in all, progress is very slow, confusing at times but it's there.

"Why do you feel like the onus is on you to keep the family intact when you weren't the one that broke it?"

My friend asked me this as well. And until now, I don't know why.
I just have that sense of responsibility to keep my family intact.

Am I doing the wrong thing? 😭
Going to the wrong path? 😭

I am really having a hard time. 😭 I don't understand myself anymore.

Am I doing the wrong thing? 😭

Going to the wrong path? 😭

I was responding to the first quote. The second and third really establish a need for clarity. With clarity comes comfort and peace.

I think a sense of clarity would be very helpful--essential, actually.

[This message edited by HardKnocks at 9:46 PM, Monday, January 8th]

I think the best way to decide what to do is to start with what you want. I think it's important to figure out what you want even if you think it's silly, even if it IS silly, even if you think it's unattainable.

Give yourself the time you need to decide, even if it takes longer than you think it should take.

Have faith in yourself to figure out what you want. Once you know that, you can figure out how attainable it is, and decide what actions to take.

I am really having a hard time. 😭 I don't understand myself anymore.

Am I doing the wrong thing? 😭

Going to the wrong path? 😭

Yeah, the period of indecision is grueling and painful, but it's necessary when you see pros and cons no matter what you choose. You've been traumatized ... it's really hard to get in touch with oneself while in the throes of trauma.

IMO, if you're not sure what you want or what's attainable, the best course of action is to 'work on the M,' as described by Shirley Glass in NOT "Just Friends" (but I'm not sure which chapter). Working on the M tests yourself and your WS, and the way you both respond to the tests can help bring clarity to you.

I agree with bluerthanblue… IC very important for both people involved. Couples therapy should come after individual counselling. It might take time finding the right therapist. I would definitely see someone that specializes in infidelity and betrayal trauma.

He has to prove to you he is a safe partner… he has to do the work. Under no circumstances should you accept the narrative that it is your fault. The person who steps out of the marriage and has an affair is 100% responsible. It is a conscious decision.

The problem is he doesn't want to do IC. I actually don't want to do IC myself because I have this belief that it won't work for me. How can they understand our pain or what we are going through if they did not experience the infidelity themselves? This is just my opinion. I don't mean to hurt anyone. (No offense to other people who are in IC.)

I had 2 therapists and both did not work for me. I know it will take a lot of try and error to find the best one but sometimes it so difficult to tell what happened all over again ang again. Emotionally and physically exhausted already.

I completely understand the reluctance about therapy. I was very frustrated with a few therapists … I wanted to be fixed and quickly and i honestly thought who could help me if they haven’t lived it themselves?? I have found the right fit for me now. It took going to a few different therapists. I kept ruminating and felt like my brain wouldn’t go past the trauma so, for me, it was and is necessary to be in therapy for myself. For the wayward I believe therapy is necessary because there is a deeper issue that led to the affair within themselves that they should explore. In order to correct the bad behaviour. It is a problem with their moral compass. Before couples therapy (for me anyway) I had to understand myself and try to fix what was broken within me before I could try couples therapy. I didn’t come to that realization right away. It took months. Months of constant struggle and heartache.

Hurt people hurt people … it’s shitty but it’s true. There is something very broken in a person who cheats. They may not even realize it or understand where it comes from until someone else uncovers it for them.

Hang in there. Be kind to yourself. This isn’t an easy journey.

I'm going to give your WH the benefit of the doubt and, for the sake of argument, accept that you emotionally and physically neglected your husband, and that things were bad enough for him at home that he felt like he needed to seek solace and fulfillment elsewhere.

So now that the cat is out of the bag and your marriage is truly shattered, why does he want to save it? Is it just for practical reasons (he doesn't want to lose time with his kids, finances, etc)? Is it because he's afraid of how people will view him? Does he like the comfort of marriage and the role you serve as his wife? Is he deathly afraid of change? Is he hoping you will just get frustrated and give up so he doesn't have to take responsibility for the end of the marriage?

I think you should ask these questions to him seriously and (if you can manage it) as calmly and free of judgement as possible. If you get the impression during the course of your discussion that he really wants to end the marriage but doesn't want to take responsibility for it, then make it easy on him and suggest divorce. Assure him that you will do your part to ensure its as amicable and painless as possible.

If he accepts the offer, good. You've just saved yourself a lot of time and needless heartache. If he says he's not sure, then you have to decide if you're willing to try to work things out with someone who has one foot out the door, and if so, how much time you're willing wait for him to make a decision.

But if he swears up and down that he's all-in and that he's really committed to making things work, then tell him that you will do your part to work on healing yourself but that you expect him to take the lead on the reconciliation process. As it stands right now, he's been skirting by doing the absolute bare minimum, and that's no longer acceptable to you.

He doesn't want to go to IC? Fine. But what is he going to do in lieu of IC to get insight into his behavior and work on becoming a better husband? How is he going to make amends to you for this betrayal and rebuild your trust? What are his suggestions for what you can do as a couple to rebuild your marriage?

Basically, if he can't be as proactive and resourceful to win you back and save your marriage as he was in pursuing the OW and having an affair, then he's wasting your time.

Lastly, you need a light at the end of the tunnel. But rather than giving him an ultimatum (ie, "you better do x and y by this date") you give yourself an ultimatum. What do you consider progress? What do you need in order to feel like the marriage is improving and/or worth saving? Then give yourself a deadline by which you will decide if you want to stay or go.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:09 PM, Tuesday, January 9th]

FWIW your relationship doesn’t need fixing so that your H stops cheating.

Your H needs help (which you admit he declined) to help him figure out why he cheated.

Taking a broken person to MC who seems to indicate the marriage (and/or you) was the reason for his affair is like trying to make a toddler stop having a meltdown over a cookie 🤣😂.

The toddler isn’t crying over the cookie — it’s just the last thing that upset them or pushed them over the edge (tired, hungry etc). Ergo your spouse blaming you for the affair or justifying a thousand reasons WHY it was ok to cheat is allowing him to avoid the REAL issue(s).

And I doubt the cheater is really looking to "fix" anything. I suspect the avoidance of individual counseling for him is substituted by agreeing to MC to get support about "why it was ok to cheat" and have YOU "understand" him.

My H refused both IC and MC. What a shock! The cheater thinks "I’m Okay" and I don’t need to figure my crap out. Wrong!!

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:52 PM, Tuesday, January 9th]

If you don't think IC will help you, what do you think you'll get from MC?

In your case, I think the best you can do is get support from an MC for both of you to do IC. If the MC doesn't push you towards IC, the MC probably takes an approach that blames the M for the A. That's not an effective approach. Your M didn't fail - your H did. If you really neglected him, you failed. Either way, the M didn't fail, and IC is the best way to go.

IC works to help clients change things that they want to change about themselves. The IC is a guide, and that means guiding the client on the client's path. That doesn't require the IC to have traveled the same path.

If the IC isn't truly helping you, you need a new MC - but before swicthing talk with your IC about what isn't working. That may get you on the right path without having to find a new IC.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:37 PM, Tuesday, January 9th]

My H and I are one year past d-day and we started MC about 2 months in. But FWIW he took the reins and did everything … researched therapists, reaearched insurance coverage, and set up all the 15 minute interviews. He was already in IC and was starting an outpatient program for sex addiction.

Think about it - if you accidentally cut someone’s arm would you just stand there and ask THEM to search the house for some antibiotic cream and band aids? No … you’d snap into repair mode and find those things yourself.

Overall I’ve found MC helpful. There was something very important about being present while my H processed some of his childhood trauma, etc. Our therapist is not in the "unmet" needs camp. That said, there HAS been a time or two where she has said some uniformed sh*t. One time she asked me why I couldn’t think about my husband’s sex addiction in the same way I would think about a cocaine addict seeking out cocaine. I told her that I can’t do that because the thing he stuck up his nose is our marriage.

These were my husband’s words after d-day: I won’t be able to promise that I won’t do this to you again until I figure out why the hell I ddi it in the first place. I think these are wise words. Does your H want to figure out why he did this? He needs to in order for you to be safe.

Hugs and best of luck no matter what you decide to do!

Bluerthanblue stated what jumped out at me,

his refusal of IC deferring to MC. That’s concerning because he could be viewing the A as a result of a broken marriage, not personal character faults that need attention.

If you do go through with MC, I’d make double damned sure it was an MC who specializes in infidelity, otherwise this approach can blow up in your face if you wind up with a therapist that subscribes to some blame-the-betrayed variation of the unmet needs fallacy. I would vet the therapists carefully.

Validation of your WS’s "reasons" to cheat could be an insult to injury blow to you and result in rug sweeping of the true fundamental contributing factors that lead to his decision to cheat. If these issues are not definitively addressed, you’re potentially destined for a repeat, a repeat affair later in life when it is more difficult to wholistically recover.

Reconciliation is HARD, even with the most motivated and devoted of WSs and BSs. Ideally, the WS leads the charge with few conditions-if any. Emotional intimacy is fundamental prerequisite to wholistic R.

If you do go through with MC, I’d make double damned sure it was an MC who specializes in infidelity, otherwise this approach can blow up in your face if you wind up with a therapist that subscribes to some blame-the-betrayed variation of the unmet needs fallacy. I would vet the therapists carefully.

I agree with this, but I also think the same hazard exists with IC, too. Your WH might find a therapist that completely validates his complaints about you. Also, a lot of cheaters will lie to their therapists or even lie to their BS about what their therapist has said to them. For example, on SI, a BS will sometimes ask for advice because WS's IC said (or is claimed to have said) that some of the BS's terms for reconciliation (such as a complete timeline, device monitoring, location sharing, etc) were unreasonable or even downright abusive.

In addition to the many reasons given in this thread, MC as a substitute for IC doesn't work because MC and IC have different and potentially divergent therapeutic goals. MC is focused on keeping the marriage together; IC is focused on treating an individual person. During the process of IC you (or him, if he ever decides to go) might find that what you need to grow and heal as a person is not conducive to remaining married to each other. Conversely, the MC has a financial interest in keeping your marriage intact, regardless of how miserable you are, so you will continue to need MC.

It's important for a BS to have realistic hopes for what IC can achieve. Like any kind of medical intervention, IC is most likely to be effective if the person is engaged in the process and there is a treatment goal in mind. For example, does your WH have an untreated mental illness (like bipolar or depression) that negatively impacts his decision making and impulse control? IC could help with that. Does he need to learn new coping mechanisms for stress or more effective strategies for communicating? IC could help with that. But IC is not "character transplant" surgeon; it can't fundamentally change who your WH is as a person.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:09 PM, Tuesday, January 9th]