SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In the beginning my wife said she made a mistake. I said you didn't make a mistake, you made a choice. A mistake is grabbing 2% instead of whole milk.

One poster, I wish everyone paid attention to is 1stwife. She decided after her husband‘s threats of divorce and his affairs that she was done. She calmly told him she was divorcing him, and then went about her life. I assume it was under the same roof so he could see that she was done. That means reality slapped him in the face. He was not going to get away with it anymore because he was going to be living by himself. It is amazing to me how many times we don’t think we have the right just say enough is enough, but that’s what she did.
The second person that I think everyone needs to pay attention to is Bigger. He was a police officer somewhere and took from his experiences a very good idea to calmly make it through troubled waters. I take away from him that you need to think calmly and carefully about what you do and say. If you’re going to divorce, do it but treat it as a business arrangement where everyone is disappointed, but everyone gets their share. It’s up to lawyers to figure it out if the two people cannot, but it should be treated very much as it business transaction.
In the agony of being discarded, lied to and mistreated we often become scared children hiding under the blanket. This is the hardest part…just making a decision, even it is just to take a shower, eat something nutritious or find a lawyer. Life will go on because it always does.

One poster, I wish everyone paid attention to is 1stwife. She decided after her husband‘s threats of divorce and his affairs that she was done. She calmly told him she was divorcing him, and then went about her life. I assume it was under the same roof so he could see that she was done. That means reality slapped him in the face. He was not going to get away with it anymore because he was going to be living by himself. It is amazing to me how many times we don’t think we have the right just say enough is enough, but that’s what she did.

The second person that I think everyone needs to pay attention to is Bigger.

That’s interesting. Bigger has repeatedly voiced his disagreement of announcing D early on as a means of slapping reality in the face of the betrayer.

Don’t reconcile. I have deep regrets, now ten years out. He hasn’t cheated again, but for me this was a deal breaker and I tried to reconcile very hard because the kids were young.

It will never be the same, and is unlikely to be great again. The anger and pain haunts me, and he has done most things right.

It’s like that scene from Silence of the Lambs. They covet what they see every day. It took years of shitty boundaries to get to the point of cheating. Those shitty boundaries will haunt you. Because it isn’t just the fucking. It’s how many times they tried and didn’t. And who else she flirted with, etc.

Ask your wife- "What’s in it for me to stay?"

Then sit back and listen to what she says. My husband had a hella time answering that for me.

I stayed due to finances and kids, and wanting to do the right thing. So now I’m in a zombie marriage. Don’t stay if it will be a zombie marriage.

T/j. I don’t say Bigger pushes D. He appears to say be careful in how you decide but if divorce is inevitable treat it as a business transaction. It keeps things as fair as possible. He and his wife R so I take from his writings that taking time, remaining cautious, using clear thinking helps the whole process R or D.

To clarify some issues:
1)No – I didn’t reconcile with the woman that cheated on me. I left that relationship. It’s in my profile.
2)No – I haven’t repeatedly voiced my disagreement on announcing D early on as a means of slapping reality in the face of the betrayer.
Anybody that has monitored my advice (and to be able to state I do something "repeatedly" you would need to do that...) will note that I try to deal with infidelity as reality. It’s what’s happening. I also guess that what I suggest and what 1stwife did are basically like two slightly different toppings on a pizza – basically not so different.

What I do disagree with is the "I’m getting a divorce" and then sitting back to wait for the WS reaction – using it as a tool to "slap reality".
Nor do I see any gain in making it all a big drama.
I have repeatedly suggested that you deal with reality with reality – that if your spouse has decided to have an affair then YOU – the betrayed spouse – can only control and decide what YOU can do. I then suggest you decide that YOU don’t want to be in a relationship with infidelity, and the logical deduction of that is that you start the work of getting out of infidelity. It’s then your call – IF the WS wants to follow you – if you allow your spouse to follow you or not.

Unthoughtknown75

This is turning into one of those threads that expands way beyond the time and contributions of the original poster.
I can see in your profile that you haven’t been here for some days, and I don’t know if you will return or read this, but just in case:

Irrespective of how this goes – whether you and your wife reconcile or divorce – then note both on this very thread and on a number of other threads the stories of those that remained WITHOUT resolving the issues.
Some question if reconciliation is possible. Yet this site is a beacon of hope for those that want to reconcile. You can read the founding couples story, we have prominent members like Wifehad5 and BrokenRoad and numerous other stories of couples that did the hard work and reached a place where they are content and happy in their marriage. BUT THEY DID THE WORK!
We also have numerous people that divorced and are happy and content with THAT decision.

In all instances, both D or R, we the betrayed spouse need to deal with OUR issues. Deal with the trauma infidelity leaves on our soul. If we reconcile our spouse needs to deal with their issues, and together we need to deal with the effects on the marriage and the change it has on us.

If you don’t post again I hope you read this and remember:
You need to deal with the issues – irrespective of D or R.
You need to believe you have the truth.
If you R you need to want to be with your wife – not feel obligated or forced to remain.
You two need to remove each and every excuse for why she did what she did, and only remain with an explanation. An explanation that can be dealt with.

Thank you for the shout out.

Just to clarify I had every intention of Divorcing my H. I did not use it as a threat. My plan B was solid and at dday2 I did the hard 180.

I was waiting until after the Christmas holiday to start the divorce proceedings - about 30 days away.

He was leaving the house, kids & I were staying. He agreed to that. I had $ saved up and had one year of living expenses saved up in case he decided NOT to pay child support or alimony.

I emotionally abandoned the marriage and focused on my own healing.

But an interesting thing happened. My therapist pointed out that my H was doing everything possible to make amends. And maybe I should think about Reconciliation.

The reconciliation period was very difficult for me. While I still loved my H my head was telling me to D. And it made perfect sense. Two affairs, two Ddays from the most recent affair, he planned to D me b/c of his mid life crisis and he made sure to tell me during his affair everything that was wrong with me.

The first year of Reconciliation I woke up every day thinking - I cannot do this and I need to D him. I demanded a post nup to financially protect myself as a part of even considering Reconciling. Because I figured we were still D and I needed it to protect myself. I never ever thought we had a fighting chance at R.

I am blessed that things did work out. But I never used D as an idle threat. He begged me to give him 30 days and while I agreed to it, I was certain there was nothing he could do to change my mind.

I mean what I say and I never say anything I don’t follow through on. My kids learned that at an early age. No means no.

Unfortunately my H thought I was either dumb or would continue to be a doormat. He underestimated me completely. I am certain he wished he never poked the bear — because he has seen a side of me that he probably wished he’d never seen.

And this last affair started because he was mad at me. We agreed to something but he kept going back on his word and doing the opposite. Every week he would completely disregard our agreement and do whatever he wanted. Except this time I was standing my ground and refusing to back down or look the other way.

And he didn’t like being held accountable. So what did he do? Got himself a side piece. Hired her to work for him. Had an affair. Dday2 he again demanded a D. Hours later changed his mind and begged me to reconsider. Except I decided I just could no longer be on this roller coaster and had to put myself first.

I stopped being his emotional crutch and really didn’t care what happened to him.

My H swears he was not mad at me when he started his affair. It “just happened”. I beg to differ. He needed someone to boost his ego - because I’m certain he was not telling the OW all the nonsense he was putting me through at that time. I was remaining very calm and rational too - no yelling or anything like that, just asking him to keep to his word and do exactly what he agreed to, for once.

However, He was a hero in the OW’s eyes.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:38 AM, Tuesday, October 15th]

Just to clarify I had every intention of Divorcing my H. I did not use it as a threat. My plan B was solid and at dday2 I did the hard 180.

Not that anyone cares, but to clarify, I in NO WAY advocate pushing for D as a manipulation tactic, or as a "threat". Instead, I think D should be the default decision, and the best outcomes seem to come from those who get there fast. No, that’s not to say the ONLY way to improve one’s outcome is to immediately file, but (and yes I can’t cite a formal study as some of you will likely demand) anecdotally, the betrayed who take a firm stance quickly always seem to do better than the wafflers.

Again, taking a strong D stance early is NOT in any way a manipulation tactic. What it does is this: it puts the onus on R 100% on the adulterer IF THERE IS TO BE AN R. Should the betrayed decide the adultery was a deal-breaker, then they shouldn’t even consider R, no matter how remorseful the betrayer is. However, and I don’t know why this is so controversial, but don’t we all agree a real R must include certain things like 100% honesty, reaching true remorse, commitment to change one’s character via IC or more, etc.? And don’t we agree the betrayer CANNOT be dragged through this process, with the betrayed leading the way? That the betrayer MUST be the one taking COMPLETE ownership of all their issues, communicating honestly, going absolutely full NC, accepting 100% responsibility for all their decisions to betray, and should be the one leading the way in R, IF THERE IS EVEN TO BE AN R ?

Yes, the betrayed has their own healing to do. However, if the betrayer isn’t the one willing to crawl over broken glass to save the M, and do the ENORMOUS amount of work on themself, can’t we all agree that R’s with less-than-fully-truthful, less-than-fully-remorseful, less-than-fully-responsible, less-than-fully-committed betrayers lead to an "R" that’s not true reconciliation but more "just staying in a M"? Yes, the betrayed has every right to make their own decisions and if they want to suffer through an ongoing crappy M for other reasons (finances, kids, etc.) then that’s their right to do so, but I’m simply looking for a "best practice" type of guide for the betrayed, and imho, resolutely and truly DECIDING on D early leads to better outcomes (in general, no guarantee of anything) because it puts the ball squarely in the betrayer’s court to lead the herculean effort for R, IF THERE IS TO BE ANY R.

I am not categorically against R, as some of you likely think. I am categorically against R when the betrayer is not fully honest, accountable, remorseful, and/or fully committed to a lifetime of effort.

Respectfully, I think you are missing important elements around the time each party needs to adapt to the nuclear bomb of D-Day.

To expect a WS to immediately and completely change after doing some of the most selfish acts possible, I don’t think it’s practical. I personally was highly influenced by WOES and others talking about taking a year to get their head on straight.

And I think even more importantly, the betrayed are often stunned to their core. I don’t care how many times anyone would have told me to default to D, it wouldn’t have worked. I was frozen. The world was suddenly dangerous in ways previously unimaginable and any step in any direction was fraught with peril. I needed time to come to my senses, to be able to trust my perceptions of the world again and even begin to feel safe.

I personally love the Bigger line that, early on, R and D run parallel courses. Either way, you have to heal. How you choose to relate to your betrayer in that time can either give you space to heal or, if you engage them closer, you can gain information on their true state. There are far too many people who want to at least try R for me to want to put a blanket recommendation to not, and it would fall on mostly deaf ears anyway. This thing is too complicated to think we know the best answer a priori for everyone.

Good point, Ink. My W appeared to be remorseful from the moment she revealed her A. In fact, she wasn't. It's not that she purposely hid her lack of remorse. Rather, she marches to her own drumbeat, and she held onto some beliefs that shocked me when she shared them after getting to remorse.

IMO, the default behavior should be for the BS to figure out how to live the best life possible, not to punish the WS.

Further, filing for D as a default seems like it would distract the BS from acting in ways that that get the best payoff for the BS.

'Give up trying to control the (D/R) outcome' is one of the best pieces of advice ever given to a BS or WS.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:52 PM, Wednesday, October 16th]

So sorry that you are going through this. And, walking in on it. Traumatic and incredibly sad. What is the action when there is not R or D? This is the place that I am in. DDay was 6 years ago. We went through the usual stuff, lots of tears, trickle truth, denies, lies, story changed so many times, etc. We live separate in our home. Though I am still a loyal spouse - there is nobody else in my life. We are here in-between R and D, because I still don't have the answers that I need, wondering if those answers will help, and looking to hear or read something that will help me to R or D. We are both in IC.
Just also wanted to express some concerns for your children, that there is a good chance that they also may have walked in, saw, or heard something as to these events. Perhaps IC for them as well.

@icangetpastthis, I wish I had some words of advice, and some day I am sure I will.

I am still not sure what will happen. I will say for the past two weeks I feel fairly stable (if that is even a thing right now). My heart is broken, but have been thinking much more clearly instead out of pure emotion. The IC is helping. That is not to say I am not still having mental issues dealing with this, they are just far less debilitating. I am sure they will come back at times, and I’m ok with that. We tried MC, but I was not feeling the therapist so we stopped after one session. We are trying a new one next week. Many have said I should hold on that part, but after speaking with my IC I have agreed to try.

I do believe the outline my WS game me. She is doing everything right, and has since I caught her. Things between us have been fine the past two weeks. I know some will say I shouldn’t even be speaking to her, but right now it is giving me some much needed peace. The clarity of what happened has not disappeared. The likelihood of D is still extremely high. I don’t see a life where I get past this. I don’t see a world where I look at this stage of my life as over, and staring a new stage with WS next.

One thing I do hate is having to rely on her. I have been dealing with the pain of a tumor in my knee for about 6 months. Sunday it blew up and may have cause me to tear my ACL- they could not tell at the ER if it is the ACL or if the tumor grew and is causing damage. have an MRI on Saturday and go to the surgeon next Thursday. Either way they have my leg locked out from upper thigh to my ankle. It’s a soft cast I can take off when needed, but has me extremely limited. I can’t drive as it’s my right leg. I am still being stubborn and cooking for myself and getting my own things as needed, but I can’t do it all right now. This is eating at me. I hate that I need her right now, but not a whole lot I can do. If nothing else it at least gives me time to plan out next steps.

@Unthoughtknown75
The trauma of actually seeing her fuck your friend may be a mountain too high to summit. When my wife cheated, her friend called me to tell me that it was going on, in real time, but I was states away and she didn’t answer her phone or messages so I just sat and knew what she was doing.. Still, I never had to see it with my own eyes.

Having her care for you post a surgery isn’t great. Maybe you can use other family for recovery or an inpatient rehab?

Wish I had some good advice for you. At least you know the facts of her infidelity, so you know the choice that you have before you. Good luck.

Unthought,

You're dealing with decisions that will probably affect decades of your life. Taking time to make decisions makes sense. Not deciding while you're in shock makes sense. You're getting grounded now. You're getting help. You're preparing to make a much better decision now than you were a few weeks ago. Congratulate yourself.

I'll ask if you're being too stubborn. I'll suggest that you ask your WS to help you with physical things now that you are in physical pain and probably scared, too. (The idea of surgery makes me shudder, so I'm projecting here.)

Your W's response to requests for help will tell you something about how good a candidate for R she is. Your response to her response might tell you something about how good a candidate for R you are.

Also, I hereby request updates on your health. You don't owe me or SI any updates, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who cares. I hope the MRI shows the tumor to be eminently removable and, if the MRI can show this, benign.

Sisoon- thank you for that. I do feel I need to take time with this. It’s not as easy for me as it may be for others. I want to make sure that whatever I decide I am good with it. Not regretting it down the line. Although I guess that a possibility no matter what.

She has been more than willing to help, and would rather me do nothing. I get too antsy sitting. Likely part of this is from being a chef most of my life. A career where you go, go, go no matter what. The situation I am in now is just adding fuel to all of this.

I will keep you posted. Hoping it’s nothing crazy and they can load me with some cortisone shots and be on my way. Then I could plan/schedule surgery when it makes more sense. If I can’t wait on surgery then I will not put it off just to be stubborn.

Good to hear from you OP and glad you’re getting by.

She has been more than willing to help, and would rather me do nothing.

Any other reactions / actions from her? Is she still maintaining that she was too drunk to understand what she was doing (both times) ?

Hi Gr8ful! She really has been doing everything asked, and many things in her own. The last ask was to tell her parents, which she did without question. She was obviously scared to tell them, and did ask me if I minded if she waited to talk to her IC for tips. I understood this and agreed to it. She told them last weekend, and told me how it went. Additionally I called her last week when I was traveling because I had a couple questions that I needed clarification on. She answered them and I felt she did so truthfully. She was in her car when I called and I asked where she was going, she said on her way home from the gym. I never gave her a reason to make her think that I doubted her, but the next day she texted me to say she could hear concern/doubt in my voice when I asked where she was. She wanted me to know that she activated all of her locations features for me, plus Life 360 so that I would always know where she is. She did that on her own. One big thing she did for me was for this upcoming weekend. It’s family weekend at my daughter’s college, and I’ve been missing her like crazy. When they braced up my knee I never said anything, but knew I wouldn’t be able to do the drive. Even if I could I wouldn’t be able to get around. I was getting pretty down about it. She called our daughter and they made a plan. My WS is going to leave early Friday afternoon to pick her up and have her home for the weekend. I was worried my daughter would be upset about us not being there, but she is so excited to come home for the week.

As far as her maintaining the drink thing, yes. This I could possibly get over if she could tell me the why’s. This was obviously planned. She put herself in the same position 3 times, with months in between. I can not consider R until I know the why’s. I can get by not knowing what happened in the drunken moments, but I do need to know what made her make the sober decisions to continue the friendship and put herself in the same situation.

Eminently reasonable expectation that she talks to you about her "why’s" as much as she understands. Often the WS’s why’s are superficial and lacking deep digging at first. Her IC can help her dig deep on this aspect. Good luck with your health. Nice to see your WW step up so that you can enjoy your DD’s visit.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:53 PM, Thursday, October 17th]

As far as her maintaining the drink thing, yes.

As I’m sure you know, alcohol intoxication doesn’t cause a person to do something they would consider abhorrent when sober. It only lowers inhibitions - they forget about the consequences of getting caught and therefore do what they really want to do.

Have you considered talking to an attorney to set up a post-nuptial agreement? If nothing else, it would be interesting to see her reaction to the idea. I want you to be better protected if you decide her actions were a deal-breaker. Not only that, but if she’s truly remorseful, she should receive the idea with understanding and the more she’d be willing to offer you in the agreement, I would gage as the more remorseful she is. On the other hand, if she just gets angry, you can safely conclude she has zero remorse, regardless of what she says.

I’ve seen cases where the adulterer acts all sorry, until they start seeing some consequences of their choices land, and then their true selfish/bitter/resentful nature re-emerges. Even if you eventually decide against the post-nup, watching her reactions can be an interesting tool to assess her level of remorse.

[This message edited by gr8ful at 2:20 PM, Friday, October 18th]