SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh dear sister, I wish you could see how twisted your perspective is.

I get it. You’ve been traumatized so badly recently that I’m sure you can’t yet see all of the ways that he has groomed and conditioned you to take responsibility for his actions.

He is manipulative. My WH was extremely emotionally manipulative too. Usually that took the form of making himself the victim of EVERY situation—even, maybe especially, those that he had caused himself. And I was very conditioned to try to "be fair" and take my part of the blame for having caused his bad behavior or made him angry or hurt his feelings.

What I didn’t realized is that this allowed the mere idea that I had feelings, let alone that they were important, to even exist in his mind. And in my mind, my feelings weren’t as important either because they clearly weren’t as big or as wounded or a damaged as his.

So. . .he is being horrificly manipulative and harmful to get you to stop your therapy because it is supposedly harming him. The truth: he feels threatened and exposed by you having someone to confide in who sees his behavior clearly and acts accordingly.

The question for you is: why do you allow things that you need and that are helping you to be sacrificed automatically to his needs? You have been traumatized by his actions, and yet BOTH of you have agreed that his need is greater and that you will give up what you need. And you wonder why you feel rage???

Affairs are abuse and trauma. Emotional blackmail and manipulation is abuse and trauma. Gaslighting and minimizing are abuse and trauma. BUT!

Pinning you to the floor is no only abuse and trauma; it is IMMEDIATE AND IMMINENT DANGER to you and your children. And what are you doing?? You’re excusing and blaming yourself and saying well, I probably provoked that.

So to be clear, YOU did not almost cause him to lose his precious job that he supposedly can’t live without. He PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED YOU, and you have allowed both of you to say that what is causing the problem is that the police came. . .which was your fault. There was no reason for the police to come except that he was assaulting you. PERIOD.

Can you please see that the danger to his job was there when he did that. . .AND HE STILL DID IT. So you saying now that he certainly would NEVER do that again because it would endanger her job sounds, well, completely irrational which is what happens when you are thinking with a brain that has been traumatized and abused for years.

The danger to his job was always there. It didn’t stop him when he got really desperate and really angry and really determined to control and punish you. PLEASE SEE THAT! The ONLY thing that will determine whether or not he physically assaults you again is if he gets angry enough or desperate enough or afraid enough or whatever other strong emotion he has because HE IS NOT IN CONTROL OF HIMSELF.

And because he is not in control of himself, it is impossible to say that he will rationally think about his precious job the next time that he is overwhelmed with shame or anger or fear or whatever. You. Just. Can’t. Say. That.

And I think you know that. I think that it is just the most recent thread that you’re clinging to to assure yourself and others that it wasn’t that bad and that staying in the same house with him is fine. But somewhere you must know that it is not at ALL fine. You are most definitely in danger of him doing this again. In fact, statistically you are much more in danger now that it has happened once. The cork is out of the bottle.

We are all begging you to see your own patterns of thinking and minimizing and rationalizing his behavior and taking blame for things that he is doing. We are begging you because you and your children are in grave danger from him. You were before from the emotional and mental abuse of his affair and his pre-affair tendencies, but you are much more in danger now.

And other posters are right: you keep coming here to tell us of horrific things that have happened and unrepentant completely wayward behavior from your WH only to immediately begin to take responsibility and tell yourself and us that really you caused everything and he really was nice to you for 5 minutes yesterday so it’s all good and maybe he’s right that you basically put his dick into the OW for him against his will.

I truly hope that you go back to IC and that you begin to get the help that you need to see your situation more clearly. We all struggle with the disorientation and trauma post affair, but where you are is someplace even more serious. You are apologizing for your husband physically assaulting you and telling us why you absolutely, positively know that he won’t ever do that again.

If you were hearing this from a friend, would you be afraid for her? We are afraid for you and your children. I pray that you will realize that soon.

He is not ashamed.

If you had hurt someone,and you were ashamed would you be abusive to that person? No.

He just doesn't want everyone to find out he hits his kids,and pushes his wife around. Because he's an abuser. And abusers are cowards. It has zero to do with feeling shame.

His affair was with a coworker. If his job is so precious, he wouldn't have had an affair. He risked his job the minute he started the affair.

He's not upset that he hit his child. He's not upset that he's bruised you. He's only mad that people found out. And you are basically saying that's understandable. It's very clear he has abused you for a very long time. When a woman is abused, it alters her brain chemistry. You have mentioned he's a good dad. But he's actually not. He hit her. He "lightly slaps" the kids. I'm going to be very honest..I don't believe that. You have a habit of minimizing his behavior. I think its not a light slap. Regardless, your abusive husband is slapping your children. They walk on eggshells. They know about his "moods." That you think he's a good dad only further indicates how badly you've been abused.

Very serious question..do you know you're being abused?

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:38 AM, Friday, April 26th]

^^^^^^^^^
Please read what Hellfire wrote over and over until it sinks in. You desperately NEED to realize this.

Do you know that you and your children are being abused?

Ditto to what Hellfire said.

Again, please, please STOP making excuses for your husband.

He's an abuser and you are allowing your children to live in this toxic environment.

WHY won't you protect your children?

Anyway I hear what you are saying.

No, I don't think you do. If you were listening, you would be a lot more concerned for the safety and wellbeing of yourself and your children.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:49 PM, Friday, April 26th]

Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts. You asked me what keeps me in this I guess, it is the good times. Like we are in one now, we dont argue and get on and he is really helpful with the children and I think to myself I can cope with the bad times. I guess the reason I have come on here is the bad times lead me to here to vent or to moan and to think about leaving but then it changes. Plus when I hear my friends I think to myself are all relationships just hard especially with young children.

I also don’t feel I particularly love him anymore but there is some love and care there just hard to reach it through the anger. I do worry what would happen to him and whether he would go on a downward spiral but I can’t control that.

I am afraid of being on my own with the three kids. I can’t move back home and I would have to move to a cheaper area, move them schools have no support. I also fear the divorce process and how he would be in this and what I would put my kids through. So I guess it is complex. My time t leave was when I first went home after daft and I wish I had just stayed there even if it was illegal. He was still seeing her and he may have had a relationship with her but I was in shock and did still really live him then. My feelings about him now are due to all the lying and things he put me through since.

Anyway, thank you, you have given me lots to think about.

You need to be concerned with how raising young children, in a home,with an abusive drunk father, a home in which they already know about his moods,and that they need to walk on eggshells, will affect them.

I can promise you,living in a home with a single working mother, where they are safe, is always the better choice. I grew up in a home like yours. I sought out abusive men, when I got older. It's all I knew. And,my mom stayed. She allowed her fear of the unknown, keep us all stuck in a home in which we, the kids, were scared. Her fear was more important than ours. As parents, one of our absolute most important jobs, is to protect our children. From ANYONE that causes them fear. Even..especially..when that "anyone" is the other parent.

No one is saying its easy. Lord, we know it's not. But those kids deserve better, even if you don't think you do(and you do).

These "good times" are all a part of the abusive cycle. Look it up. It's right out of the abusers handbook. Blow up, say,and/or do terrible things, then swoop in and act like a hero, and be all loving. Then he rages again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If it were me, I'd invent a family crisis, and I'm needed at home. Of course, the kids go with you. They'll be out of school soon. Then,once safe, start the divorce process. On grounds of abuse.

I think we are all scared for you,and the children.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:49 PM, Friday, April 26th]

I know it seems like everyone is being extreme to you. That we don’t really know what it’s like for you and if we knew we wouldn’t be as concerned. But you are not realizing that we have the huge benefit of being disconnected and having an outside perspective that brings clarity. The old saying of not seeing the forest because of the trees. You are too close to see the whole picture.

Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts. You asked me what keeps me in this I guess, it is the good times. Like we are in one now, we dont argue and get on and he is really helpful with the children and I think to myself I can cope with the bad times.

Today you said this. But how long is a good time to you? Setting aside that what you described is the bare minimum for a tolerable situation. It was just yesterday that you said

So again my husband has been in a bad mood this week.

That doesn’t sound like a significant amount of "good times" to sustain a meaningful relationship. It sounds like an uneasy truce where there is just enough lack of outright conflict to draw an ragged breath and prepare for the next inevitable onslaught…

We all KNOW you deserve far better than what you are getting.

it is the good times

You do realize that this can be a manipulation tactic? It's called intermittent reinforcement. He'll play all sweet and nice for a while just to keep you hooked through those bad times. This can cause a situation where you become trauma bonded. It's very similar to co-dependency, and there's brain chemistry behind why you may have a difficult time making the stay or go decision.

My XWH is a diagnosed NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), and I know that push-pull of intermittent reinforcement. He could be so very thoughtful with gifts and very loving. Then, he would throw little pity parties and make life miserable. I learned to walk on eggshells to not rock the boat.

I'm not saying that your WH has a personality disorder. What really helped me learn about my XWH was watching YouTube videos by Dr. Ramani. She works with survivors of abuse of narcs, psychopaths and sociopaths. (Scary words but they're patterns of behavior). I would encourage you to watch a few of them, especially the one about trauma bonds. She does a really good job of putting it in layman's terms so that you can understand.

Also, you may want to read the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It isn't specifically infidelity-related, but does have some good discussions on abusive spouses.

FWIW Ted Bundy had many people say "he could never do something like that" but yet he did!

As others have stated you are in an abusive marriage and you don’t see it. Your post that things have recently been great is exactly what happens in an abusive relationship. Good times. All positive. Treats you well. Then comes the cycle of abuse and trauma.

Your biggest issue is what you are allowing your kids to witness. From a psychological standpoint this pattern may/could continue with them. Your children may choose spouses just like your husband because it’s familiar. And there’s another generation of children who become adults and are abused by their mate.

Stop thinking of yourself and think about your children.

You asked me what keeps me in this I guess, it is the good times. Like we are in one now, we dont argue and get on and he is really helpful with the children and I think to myself I can cope with the bad times.

YOU can cope, but these bad times will scar your kids as they witness his treatment of you. As they get older, he will then treat the kids the same way he treats you--nice then cruel--giving them all sorts of issues to overcome.

An additional perspective I would like to offer if it helps.

Emotionally mature men take pride in their job as a means to support their family. That's the purpose of work for them. They are fulfilled not because they're so successful or their coworkers look up to them, though those may be side benefits. Their job isn't about their own ego to the detriment of their family.

Emotionally immature men work for ego gratification. They work to cultivate an image of success and strength. To them, the family is their to support them in their career at best and a hindrance to success at work. Their motivations for working are rooted in selfishness. They don't care about providing for the family as long as their ego is stroked, though they may get the ego validation from being seen as that by outsiders. They are more concerned with earning the respect of coworkers and outsiders than their own families.

The two basic duties of a husband are to provide and protect. Your husband is not only failing at both, he isn't oriented toward those at all. He wants to be provided to and protected by not only his wife but his children. Did he tell your kids to be dishonest with the police? Children should never be put in that position. Basically, if your husband isn't driven to protect and provide for his family, he doesn't actually want to be a husband and father, though he might think he does because he thinks this is what a husband and father is. But the role he put himself in and that he wants you to play are not the roles of husband and wife. They're more like captor and captive.

if it becomes known that he harmed the kids (slap or otherwise) and you knew he is capable to do it yet chose to keep them in the environment with him, YOU are accountable. Failure to Protect. You have much to say about the previous reported incident and how he is trying to weaponize the consequences of his actions against you, but it also established that further abuse places you in the failure to protect role. You won't be able to deny that he did it before and had to complete a safety plan. Exposing your kids to abuse when you have another choice is essentially another form of abuse.

While attending a party with a mutual femaMy husband of 35 years has been disloyal for most of our marriage. I did not realize this till after our 20th anniversary. There were so many times that I felt he treated me like an afterthought. He always had a good excuse/reason. Then, when we attended a party with a mutual female friend, I saw the light. He drove us home and informed me that he was dropping me off home then driving female friend home. He ignored my disapproval. After I questioned him, he admitted she was flirting with him at party and grabbed him. Why did he then be alone with her if he did not care about me?

Confusedandinpain, you may wish to create your own thread so as not to t/j (threadjack) this thread. That way, we can provide better advice for you.

I had to take a break, some f those messages were hard to hear.

It is more me and the toxic cycle I am exposing them too. But I am beginning to see it more but then even now I doubt myself. Like we have had a good few days, we havebeen getting on, no arguments. Anyway he comes home from work, I am on the phone to my mum-which is a trigger to him as he feels I told her way too much which I did. Anyway, we are still getting on them he notices a bottle of spirits empty that I had taken from the freezer. He was like why did you take that out, I made up some excuse that I had been looking in the freezer for meals planning the week which is true but I did purposely look in that drawer as I noticed an empty bottle. Anyway this starts him questioning me, why did you do this I say I was looking for meals and I saw the drawer was dirty and I cleaned it and took the empty bottle out.

He gets annoyed look through it, it is not clean etc I go upstairs he follows me as I am doing the kids bedtime. ‘You are lying to me, I say who cares I took an empty bottle out’. He is like you are monitoring me, putting ticks against me so you can tell your mum. Which I didn’t do but I am looking at how much he is drinking because he is drinking too much.

He then starts going on about how he can’t trust me, I am a liar he had one small indiscretion (I am guessing he means the A) but I am not trustworthy and I am lying which I am but it is weird that I am even lying about taking an empty bottle out to put in the bin. He goes I don’t monitor the chocolate bars you eat and I am like it is not the same. Anyway, he is now giving me the silent treatment and I know i will have to grovel.

None of this is normal right. I am conditioned to think it is my fault. I guess I am gathering evidence that it isn’t. He isn’t a bad person I think he just needs support but even writing on here feels like a big betrayal which is why I will edit.

Sorry I am just ranting now.

[This message edited by Lemonpie at 10:23 PM, Friday, December 20th]

Anyway he comes home from work, I am on the phone to my mum-which is a trigger to him as he feels I told her way too much which I did.

He is telling you this is a trigger?? You told your mom the truth, this is only a trigger for him because he is trying to control you. He doesn't get to be triggered by you telling people the truth.

He is still emotionally abusing you. Making you grovel over a bottle? You lie to him because you are afraid of is emotional abuse.

He minimizes his affair as "one small indiscretion. He betrayed you in the worst way, this is not small, it's huge.

What he is doing is not normal, it's gaslighting and abuse.

If the only reason you think you all are safe from physical abuse,is because he doesn't want to deal with legal consequences, then you all will never be safe. Seriously think about that. You're saying "I know he won't hit the kids,because he doesn't want legal trouble." Not, "I know he won't hit the kids because he's not abusive."

Huge difference.

Right now,it's fresh. So,yes, the legal consequences are detering him. So, he's abusing you all in other ways. He gaslights you. He blames you for everything. He calls you the most vile names. He involves the kids. The kids walk in eggshells. He drinks too much. He's mean. The silent treatment? That's abuse. You have to grovel??? Wth for??

You didn't ask. Do you believe he's abusive? Do you believe you're being abused? Forget you had a few good days,here and there. On the whole...do you know he's abusive?

The posts that are hard to read? It's because you know we're right. Logically, you know that. But he has abused you for so long, you make excuses for him, and accept the blame.

He is not a good person. He's just not. A good person would never physically hurt their spouse, or child. They wouldn't have to be threatened with the law, to not do it. A good person doesn't call an affair,in which you leave your wife for the ow, a "small indiscretion." A good person isn't verbally, and emotionally abusive.

He has you convinced he feels shame for his actions. He is not ashamed. Why would he be? It was just a small affair. And, according to him,it's all your fault anyway.

Do you have a plan B?

Your husband will do whatever he wants, with or to whoever he wants, as long as he feels he can get away with it.

Your kids have likely learned to be afraid of him and keep their mouths shut. They've also learned that you too afraid of him (and of losing him) to stand up to his abuse, so they probably don't bother sharing their fears and suffering with you. What would be the point? You will just make excuses for him.

I grew up in the Hell that they're living in and it did me no favors as an adult.

He isn’t a bad person…

He bullies women and children. His wife and his own kids. That is weakness, not strength.