SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Rainbow, you may want to begin your own thread with some details so we can provide you with guidance for your scenario.

Sorry for being quiet for a little bit on here. As you can probably guess life is coming at me at 100mph at the moment.

I am now getting access to my wife's phone whenever I request it, and I've asked her not to delete the conversation thread with him so I can read it whenever I need to.

I appreciate she can delete certain messages from a thread, but I'm giving her some kind of trust here.

I am also checking her WhatsApps, photos, hidden locked folders, Facebook the lot. When I ask, I am allowed to go through the lot.

There has been sporadic messages from him with either very minimal or no response back. I know I need complete no contact, but I'm taking baby steps and trying not to overwhelm the situation.

This is such big progress that I don't want to ruin it and push her away.

For the first time properly she has broken down emotionally and apologised for how she has treated ME. No mention of anything other than how she made me feel, and that felt absolutely massive.

We have started to spend more time together, obviously nothing intimate yet, but actual time being together, eating together, watching TV together, sharing our bed to literally just sleep.

I know I'm still going through trauma, but we are being very open and it's helping.

What other things do I need to be considering and trying to implement moving forward

Absolute no contact is my next goal, taking it day by day, and the messages have literally stopped to just him saying hello in the morning andy wide not replying.

Are you concerned about STD's. You may want to refrain from being intimate untill that is dealt with. Make her uderstand what this is doing to you, your family and potentially both of your healths.

[This message edited by lparistotle at 5:22 PM, Friday, January 5th]

We haven't been intimate and I have no intention of being intimate until she's tested.

Being tested is currently being sorted.

If she is serious she would block him. Block his number, block him on Facebook, WhatsApp etc.

She could send a message saying do not contact again then block.

There should be no him being able to say hello.

Brlywtr Is trying for reconciliation and it looks like his wife is as well but doesn’t know exactly how to do it. Can we as a community guide them? I’m not expert on reconciliation (unfortunately) but from what I’ve read here it seems like no contact, individual counselling and the wayward partner leading are the key things.

Can we pull together a step by step plan of what they need to do for reconciliation?

OK, Jayjay.... This is something I drafted a long while ago while I was well into R but still far from declaring victory....

Let's go back to basics:

I recommend thinking of R as 3 healings:

1) You heal you. Most BSes are inundated with immense amounts of one or more of grief, anger, fear, shame on d-day. The largest part of your work is to process those feelings out of your body. A good IC can help you do this.

2) Your WS heals themmself. They need to change from cheater to good partner. I think that requires IC for the WS, but others disagree.

3) Together you build a new M.

This means you can recover from being betrayed without your WS; that is, you can survive this crisis and thrive without your WS, but you need your WS to R. You can heal yourself because you control yourself. You don't control your WS. I recommend making 'survive and thrive' your primary goal and R your stretch goal.

Have you read the Healing Library here? If not, there's a lot of good stuff there. Click the link in the yellow box in the upper left of the SI pages.

I think there are a number of keys ingredients to R.

First, what do you want? Do you really want R? If not, don't lie to yourself - both R & D are morally good responses to being betrayed. R is hard work, and wanting it makes it less difficult, but it's difficult even when you want it.

I recommend figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your WS will sign on. If they won't, perhaps they can come up with something else that will meet your requirements, but if you can't negotiate something truly acceptable to both of you, great - you can go directly to D. Otherwise, you can monitor them for 3-6 months and commit to R for yourself if they are (is?) consistent in meeting your requirements.

The requirements need to be observable and measurable. That way it's easy to monitor progress and make adjustments as you go along.

Common requirements include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond

Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at virtually all times

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support - and for resolving any internal issue that comes up

MC - to help communications between the partners. Be careful to avoid MCs who don't deal with the A first. An MC who starts off trying to identify systemic problems probably won't help. You need someone who will help resolve the trauma before going into systemic problems.

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W had to arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes. What do you want from your W?

And R is a joint endeavor - if one of you hides objections to the other's requirements, you sabotage R. And you have to see your WS as a human being of worth equal to your own to make R work. You don't have to see your WS as a human being whose worth is equal to your own, but you sure can't R, except with an equal.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:19 PM, Friday, January 5th]

Sisoon’s R structure is excellent.

I would just add, and this seems to fit into your tolerance of baby steps, is to keep you both on a trend of continuous growth and improvement.

Keep yourself on a progressive track out of infidelity.

Avoid limbo, avoid languishing, avoid regression. It’s ok to have brief temporary setbacks, that you both learn from, but avoid regression, a backslide, a relapse. A relapse in alcohol recovery is an enormous setback, yet is common-even expected. A relapse in infidelity…

It doesn’t just take you back to zero, it doesn’t just reset the clock, it breaks the clock. You don’t just lose progress made, you lose more ground than you started with.

What would be considered a relapse? For some it’s a simple break of NC, for others it might be more than that and dependent on the degree of contact and how far into R you have progressed.

For me, it would be ANY breach of NC. That would be more than a setback, for me. For those that have the tolerance to wean their WS’s off the AP, it might be different. If you’re into weaning your WS off their AP, I would put a timeline on this, with trigger points to avoid being strung along indefinitely.

I personally don’t subscribe to weaning your WS off the affair, but respect those that do, who have extremely fogged in WSs.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 8:14 PM, Friday, January 5th]

So your WW is still communicating with her ap?
Why is that? Aren’t you giving tacit approval of them communication by allowing this? Help me to understand this.

I'm glad that things have at least currently turned for the better. Let's hope it continues this way.

This is such big progress that I don't want to ruin it and push her away.

What do you think was the largest turning point for her in this whole disaster? I would say it was when you made it clear to her that you are not an option. Do not be afraid of pushing her away with things you need going forward. If you truly believe that an immediate requirement to attempt reconciliation like No Contact will push her away, then she is by no means reconciliation material. You should never have to ask to keep a third person out of your marriage. That's an automatic given. It was that way for the entirety of your marriage prior to this, and does not need to be negotiated.

Firm but fair is the best path forward. Don't punish her, but don't compromise YOUR values to *save* the marriage.

This is such big progress that I don't want to ruin it and push her away.

I normally don't respond when a thread gets this far with no progress, but I must warn you that the "progress" you see is not real until she is done with him. She has not declared she is 100% in on R, because if she was she would have blocked him and be pissed if he attempts to contact her.

You are still afraid to rock the boat, burn the boat brother, because until she is all in, lying on floor begging for forgiveness, she is jerking you around. You cannot hope, wish and dance around this, you need to push her off the fence she is sitting on and remove yourself as an option.

Sisoon’s post above is excellent.

I still think everything you need to know and do is in my first post to you on this forum.
Notice I never told you directly to divorce. Instead, I told you to refuse to remain in infidelity. The pace you take getting out is completely up to you, and it’s up to her to keep up with you if she too wants out of infidelity.

Right now her actions might be progress, but any contact is still contact. What she’s offering – while she is still in any form of contact with OM – is akin to someone taking a sixpack of suds to the AA meeting because they want to be sober. It won’t work.

To use a comparison: Imagine your wife had been drinking excessively for the past months. Last Sunday you are woken by a call from the local police, asking you to come over and bail her from the drunk-tank. Turns out she was at a bar downing vodka and Jagermeister, dancing on the tabletops with a lampshade on her head. Picked up by the cops trying to drive home and punched an officer before puking all over his nice uniform. THIS is your wife’s behavior in the affair – when she’s actively seeing OM and having sex with him.

So you go and pay the fine and sign for her. She’s sobering up and feels all ashamed and hung-over and promises never to drink again. That’s where you have her now…
Only… On Monday she might be OK with pouring the half-empty bottles of Chablis and vodka down the drain. On Tuesday she again skips the customary half-bottle of white with dinner, and is still committed to sobriety. On Wednesday she tells you her friends are going out on Saturday, but she won’t go with them. On Thursday she will tell you that she might drop by at the restaurant they are going to, but won’t stop. On Friday she tells you that she’s having dinner with them, but only dinner and no booze. On Saturday she tells you it’s dinner and maybe half a glass of red, but she’s going to be the designated driver. Come Saturday evening and there she is – downing the vodka with Red Bull chased with Jager…

You are enjoying the Sunday, Monday and maybe Tuesday phase of her sobriety/no more affair.
You need to see her commitment. As in a commitment to total NC.

^^^^^^

Bigger, you hit it out of the park with your last post.

You are enjoying the Sunday, Monday and maybe Tuesday phase of her sobriety/no more affair.
You need to see her commitment. As in a commitment to total NC.

^^^Bigger is spot on.

Your wife is enjoying having two men vying for her attention.

She's playing ping pong with your life.

Reconciliation does not begin until NC is established AND maintained. That's step number ONE.

How can you be sure she hasn't made any attempts to get her ducks in a row? How can you be sure that they aren't communicating any other way, he texts her hello, her cue to contact him using some other means of communication.

but I'm giving her some kind of trust here.

^^^You cannot trust anything your wife does right now. Trust is EARNED and takes YEARS to rebuild, not weeks or even months.

From jb3199:

If you truly believe that an immediate requirement to attempt reconciliation like No Contact will push her away, then she is by no means reconciliation material.

^^^BINGO.

As long as any contact is happening, you are not in R. You're merely a pawn in her game of "Who am I going to pick?".

I think you have made some progress and I hope it continues. I still see some red flags based on your wife’s behavior.

I was in false Reconciliation so I experienced both. From where I stand I can point how how YOU are driving the Reconciliation bus when it should be the other way around.

I lived your exact scenario except I did not know my H was still in contact with the OW. I made a ton of excuses for his lack of effort - even praising him for one very small tiny bit of effort when I should have been doing something about his lack of effort overall (NOT praising him would have been a good place to start).

When I found out he was still in contact with the OW, it made many things (including his lack of effort) make sense.

Your wife is coasting. She’s doing things YOU ask her to do. She’s hoping you don’t insist on tests for STDs or continued access to her phone. She’s hoping she can get you to sweep this under the rug. She’s hoping you will "move on" in a few weeks.

Things only got real for my H when I told him I was D him and he had to leave (dday2). He still thought he had control. But I quickly showed him we were not partners any longer and he no longer had any say in my life or kids lives. He was on his own and forced to face the changes headed his way.

Did he try to lovebomb and sweet talk his way out of trouble? Yup. He thought he was slick. But when I just left the room without responding he realized he’s lost his power. I had flipped things around and stopped begging him to “see me as his wife” snd someone r who has lived him for decades. Now I was just his STBXW.

Funny thing is also learned not to push me o er the edge b/c he saw a side of me he wished he never saw. I was never mean or vindictive but I was able to say "nope not happening" and he knew there was no negotiating. That ended dday2.

He knew I had my plan b and heading to the mediators. He knew I had a financial plan and had the upper hand there too.

I’m not saying you need to D. What I am saying is you are not reconciling. Your wife is not making amends. She’s not showing you anything other than what you ask for. And that is not going anywhere b/c she’s relying on you to tell her what to do. And she’s doing the bare minimum.

Here’s a few things my H did on his own;

Sat down with me and showed me how he blocked and deleted all contact info (done in his own)

Signed a post nup willingly

Openly answered all questions I asked over and over again

Did everything possible on his own to make amends

Apologized profusely for years

Took full responsibility and did not blame me

I hope this helps you see the difference and what others here at SI are trying to tell you.

I did not help my H one iota to R. I planned to D him so I was not vested in the marriage. However he was able to convince me to give him a chance. And he did turn it around.

IMO if they have enough brain power to lie snd cheat, then the cheaters have enough smarts to make amends. And if they can’t or won’t, you at least know what and who you are dealing with.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:40 PM, Saturday, January 6th]

Glad you came back and checked in. I hope you are taking extra care of yourself during these extremely stressful times. I am so very sorry for what your wife is putting you and your children through. I truly am.

I dont have much more to add to what youve already been advised other than to say as long as she has one foot in your camp and one in his through continued contact, she is still in the affair.

I know you said you dont want to "risk progress" by taking a firm stance but Im going to encourage you to do just that. Risk it to gain it. Let her know what you expect, and that complete no contact is the minimum "starting point" for any reconciliation effort. If shes not willing to cut contact completely after your stated requirement, what have you really risked/lost? Shes in the affair now and will just then continue. If she agrees, you have possibly gained at least a chance at a reconciliation attempt.

There is a credence to the concept of respect through strength. Id bet dollars to dimes that she needs you to draw a hard line/boundary for one reason.

She cant.

I think she needs to be caught up short. Not meanly. Not angrily. Calmly and firmly.

In lieu of that, Im not sure what more you can do but wait and see what she does.

I hope for your sake (and your children's) that you dont have to stay in this limbo long.

Keep posting sir.

Respectfully submitted.

~ DT

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 3:16 AM, Sunday, January 7th]

OP, I'm so sorry that you're going thru this.
I've read, as best I can, all of the replies. Maybe I missed it but one of the best ways to handle this is to tell WW to immediately go NC permanently, and she had to agree to counseling. Let her know that if she doesn't, you will divorce her and totally ruin the AP's business thru online ratings, SM, the Better Business Bureau, and the State Licensing Board for unethical practices. There may even be a law suit they his insurance company. If he is just an employee, or subcontractor, of another company then you will do the same thing to that company for allowing someone that works for them do this to your family.

OP,
How have things been going?

Apologies double posted

[This message edited by Olderandhappier at 1:09 PM, Saturday, February 3rd]