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Just Found Out :
Wife cheating on me and still in contact with AP

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Brlywtr (original poster new member #84263) posted at 5:47 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Hello all

I unfortunately find myself posting after reading for a few weeks and trying to come to terms with my new reality.

I'm hoping that sharing my situation will help me unpack it a bit and also lead to some great advice being offered.

I am 37(m), and been married to my wife 36(f) 8 years as of next week.

We have two beautiful children under 6, and we have literally just recently moved into our dream (what I guess was supposed to be) forever home in the summer.

The forever home needed a little bit of work done so we employed a builder and his team to undertake the work which took about 3 weeks.

Due to certain work stresses, the prolonged house move, and having young kids I have been suffering with a bit of low mood and mild depression over the last 9-12 months.

My whole world turned upside down a month ago today when my wife told me she was having an affair with one of the building team. It was happening in our marital bed whilst I was at work and the kids in school, in hotels under the guise of her going out with her mates and staying over' and at his place.

I've seen messages between them, saying they love each other, talking about having a 3rd baby together, getting married.

I'm utterly heart broken and have been on anti depressants since and awaiting counselling referral.

After the initial rows and trying to get as much information as possible, I said she had to end all contact immediately and focus on us 100%. She resisted this but I love her so much and don't want to throw my family away, so I persevered for another week before setting an ultimatum which she agreed to. This ultimatum was 7 days ago.

Fast forward to today, and I have found messages and let's just say they are still well in contact, even as of half an hour ago.

I haven't confronted her on these recent message discoveries yet.

I am lost, deeply depressed, scared to leave to become a weekend dad, and scared to stay as I'm obviously being completely disrespected and mean nothing to her at the moment, and this looks like it will continue to happen anyways regardless of what I say or do.

What do I do? I feel like I'm limping towards splitting up with the love of my life and throwing my family life away. I am really struggling to cope.

posts: 39   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8818274
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 6:08 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Brlywtr

We feel you brother, and we're here for you.
I remember when i was going through this, coming across the quote from The Great Gatsby. It still resonates with me to this day

"The loneliest moment in someone's life is when they are watching their whole world fall apart, and all they can do is stare blankly."

But understand you don't have to be alone. Finding a supportive group such as this can be tremendously helpful.

So, with all that said.... You've laid out some boundaries, and delivered some ultimatums, and it seems that they've been ignored. So despite all of your fears and doubts, you'll need to make some hard choices.

One of the worst choices you may opt to make is to do nothing and hope it all goes away. Your wife will see this as consent to continue her affair

Possibly even worse than this, is to do the pick-me-dance. I think I can say with some confidence, drawing from my own experience-- that you're likely doing this. This is utterly repulsive to your wife, and will all but guarantee the end of your marriage.

You cannot control your wife, and you cannot compel her to do your bidding.. But you CAN control you.
What are you doing for yourself? How are you conducting yourself? Do you mine letting us know?
Are you drinking to cope? Are you following your wife around the house like a pouppy begging her to come back? Are you spending time in the Gym, or fishing with the boys? Are you listening to sad and depressing music to console yourself?

We need tyo get you on track to taking control of your life--- You cannopt hope to reconcile or heal from infiodelity without taking steps to reassert control over your life.... Don;t stare blankly while your world falls apart.

I'd like to suggest you think about consequences.... your wife has crossed your red lines after discovery.... so what are are you going to do about it?

Most here will advise you to implement the 180. I hope you've read up on this. I hope you'll be able to do it. It is possibly your most effective weapon in surviving this horrible thing.

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8818277
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 6:24 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

I just want to add---

I remember collapsing in my living room in anguish--- overwhelmed to the point of exhaustion at the fear of losing my family, splitting up the kids, divorcing, starting over, etc etc etc. I remember losing almost 60 pounds due to the infidelity diet because I wasn't eating or sleeping for months.

A couple of days before christmas, i overheard my then wife talking on the phone to her sister--- laughing at how she was going to lie to make an excuse not to go to my families christmas party, and how lame and pathetic my family was and how she just wished she was with AP and couldn't wait to see him again..... this was 6 months after d-day. I locked myself into the bathgroom and stared into the mirror for a good hour. I asked myself what sort of person i wanted to be? What sort of man did i want to be? What sort of father did I want to be? Could i be any of these things staying with my cheating wife? The answer.... clearly was no, i could not. I took a picture of myself in the mirror the moment my resolve to divorce crystalized... and.... it was over. the fears, the doubts, the indecision. Filed the next day.

I could have saved months of suffering if I had been more readilly accepting of the information here in this forum. And earlier in implementing the advice and strategies provided. The hardest thing for each of us is accepting that our "situation" wasn't unique or special. For nearly all of us, the story plays out the same as everyone else's. Your wife is playing from the cheaters handbook, and it's nothing new under the sun. Your reactions, your ups and downs, your fears and nightmares, same as all of us. I don't say that to demean your plight--- but i just want to stress, for example, when we advise not to do the pick me dance--- you possibly may have an initial reaction of "no, they are wrong, i'll just love her harder and she'll come back, we're different, our love is different and her father said if i just do what she wants it will win her back".....

It's not and you won't.

One last thing I want to mention.... Is the AP married? If so, you may be able to guess what i will emphatically reccomend you do next.

[This message edited by swoned at 6:25 PM, Thursday, December 14th]

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8818279
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 6:33 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

And finally--- we often worry that we'll scare new posters away with our bluntness, and black/white perspectives on cheating.

Please, please please, understand that we're firmly and unwaveringly on your side.

[This message edited by swoned at 6:33 PM, Thursday, December 14th]

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8818281
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 Brlywtr (original poster new member #84263) posted at 6:33 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Thanks so much for coming back to me so quickly.

I probably have done a few days of the pick me dance, I feel that that is just the natural reaction.

It seemed the natural reaction to rejection, try and prove I am the one to be with.

That has now stopped. I have read up on the 180 but it's our anniversary next week and we have the kids at my parents, long planned, and we are due to be going out.

Until I found these recent messages, I was very keen to go out and try and rekindle some of the spark, but is that a pick me scenario?

Now I have found these messages, I am unsure if I should just cancel the whole evening?

AP is not married, lives with his parents still. What kind of a future is that for my wife ory kids!!

Makes the rejection feel even worse

posts: 39   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8818282
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 Brlywtr (original poster new member #84263) posted at 6:39 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Also, because we have such young kids with a close age gap, our lives are so intertwined and focussed on them, it takes up pretty much all of our mornings, days, evenings.

Not a moan, I wouldn't change it for the world, they are everything to us, but it makes implementing some true 180 things such as gym, time with friends etc really difficult.

By the time I am back from work, and the kids are fed, bathed and put to bed it feels like it's time for my bed ready to go again the next day.

Possibly part of the reason for the affair on my wife's side? Routine and mundaneness of life????

Also why I can't bear to not see them every day of my life, it feels so difficult to make an informed decision not ruled by emotion

posts: 39   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8818284
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 6:42 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

In my opinion, you don't have an anniversary to celebrate. Your marriage has been murdered.
Affairs thrive on secrecy, and keeping up appearances is very important to the affair. Critically so.
I feel that celebrating the anniversary is allowing your wife to have her cake and eat it too.
I certainly wouldn't plan on any expensive gifts hoping to rekindle a spark--- it would not work as hoped for.

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8818285
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 6:52 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Hey Brlywtr,

Very sorry you had to find yourself here. This is not to pour salt in the wound but your response to her cheating led to quite predictable results of her continuing the A. You said you’ve been reading here, and I would encourage you to continue reading your eyes out both here and other infidelity forums (google them - posting links here is verboten).

The first thing you need to do is change your approach. You need to move with strength. Your W has unbelievably disrespected you, going so far as to continue her adultery in your marriage bed. Many of us believe that’s a whole new level of "FU" and one of the most disrespectful things a spouse can do, especially to a man. I’m not saying you start throwing chairs, but it’s time to start acting decisively. If you keep reading here, you will see one of the (proven true) refrains is "You must be willing to lose your marriage to save it". This is NO guarantee you can save your marriage. In fact, a fully healed and successful R is very rare. Look at how many "I’m back after X years" threads there are on this site.

I suggest you file for D. Divorce is normally a long and drawn out process. If a number of miracles occur, and your wife truly changes, reaches true remorse (defined by her willingness to crawl over broken glass to help YOU, accept the natural consequences of her choices, etc.) AND convinces you she’s truly worth a shot at R, you can always stop the D process. The thing is, you can’t force her to do anything. She must be ten thousand percent willing to not only start the enormous amount of work to own her choices, massively change herself, and be willing to be fully open & honest with you, NEVER ascribing ANY part of her choices to you or your actions, and do all this for the rest of her life. I hope you can see why true R is a unicorn, because those selfish enough to dive into adultery almost never have it in them to do all that’s necessary to become a safe & faithful person.

On the other hand, if you continue the pick-me dance, and plead for her to come back to you, in all likelihood she will lose even more respect for you. And why shouldn’t she? She’s done about the absolute worst thing a spouse can do, and if she experiences no consequences (I did NOT say punishment), and only sees you begging her to stay with you, she will most likely be repulsed by what she would perceive as weakness on your part.

Stay with us and keep posting. You’re going to hear some unexpected things here but I assure you this is the right place if you actually want to successfully get yourself out of infidelity, one way or another. We’re here for you!

posts: 456   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8818287
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 7:19 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Brlywtr,

Deamand a refund from the construction company and that they fire the OM. Threaten a lawsuit as well.

Get tested for STDs.

If your WW is pregnant get a DNA test for the baby if it comes to full term.

posts: 1516   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8818289
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 Brlywtr (original poster new member #84263) posted at 7:32 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

How do you successfully implement or start to implement 180 when you live in the same house, have no where else to go for a bit of separation, and have to both look after our young kids?

posts: 39   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8818290
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Confused282 ( member #79680) posted at 7:39 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Listen to everyone here. Many of them have seen this 1000’s of times. They have experience and have consumed all the leading professionals material.

They know what they are talking about.

You cannot nice her back. You cannot control her.

There needs to be consequences but she has to voluntarily enact and comply with them.

She needs to fight for the marriage not you.

You need to talk to a lawyer ASAP.

Call 2 or 3.

Right now. As soon as possible.

Do not tell your wife you are doing it.

You need legal protections in place.

I would not confront her again until you do.

In the mean time document all proof of the affair. Put it somewhere safe.

Also you need to see if there is any action you can take against the company you hired.

At a minimum you may be able to call them and get him fired.

They had sex in your new home. Don’t try to fight this even some of the professionals admit this. You need to move.

You will never feel comfortable there. It will never be your home. You will always think about them while you are there. Also he knows where you live so you will never feel safe.

The house needs to go. Maybe you can get out of it since it’s so new and get some of your money back.

Talk to an attorney.

Time is not your ally here. You need to move quickly.

Don’t win her back with anniversary I would have her move out.

I understand waiting until after Xmas for the kids but while they are gone have her go stay with family.

If she has some decent family tell them what happened yourself.

Tell anyone close to her who has influence over her.

On that note you need support. Get some family and friends who have your back. You need people right now. Don’t try to stuff this down on your own.

Hell might not be a bad idea to call his parents. Assuming they’re decent they may at least look down on your wife and not want their son in a relationship with her.

You need to understand affairs are nasty traps. They are so new and exciting that they are absolutely intoxicating.

But they have the counter effect of making home life worse. Which then makes affairs even more intense and exciting.

Your wife is not rational right now. She is running on feelings.

You not going to reason with her right now. You can’t run around chasing her or playing marriage police.

You deserve someone who wants to be your wife.

If she thinks he is a better deal you will never get through to her with logic and reason.

She needs reality and consequences to hit her hard.

You are worth something. Remember that.

You have just as much value as she does.

Hell you have more. You’re a good father that provides for his family. She a cheater and a lier that throws her family away for a shitty guy who lives in his parent's basement.

There is a common saying in this infidelity world.

"You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it"

But it’s not manipulation. If she does not value you above all others then you are outta there.

Know your worth and stand up for your self.

I’m sorry, You did not deserve this.

P.S. call a lawyer. Right now.

Consequences for everybody this holiday season.

posts: 172   ·   registered: Dec. 16th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8818291
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 7:56 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Read my story. My wife too had an affair with the electrician working on our house renovation. The house and various beds including the marital one was the only place they did it as it was safe. It ruined that house for me although I was too stubborn to move. The difference was she really had no feelings for him, especially at the end where the feelings were probably negative as he was such a jerk.

The people here who wrote you can’t nice her back are 100% right. In fact you need to do the opposite. Cancel the Anniversary and tell her exactly why. Have her get checked for STD’s even if she swears they used protection. It’s always a lie. I would have your kids DNA tested or threaten too even if you are 100% sure they are yours. Have her call and get rid of the beds. Do you really want to sleep there? I also had her tell the GC to rip out the special lighting he put in like spots for art, and special under counter lighting even though the work was good and made the house better.

Right now she is feeling no consequences for her actions. She did the worst thing she could do to you in a marriage and is expecting a nice evening out to celebrate that same marriage. I hate to say it, but cheaters need to be treated like children. They need to know what they did was wrong and that you won’t stand for it. He is probably an alpha guy and has no concerns about continuing the affair. Especially if he is single.

You need to come down hard. I know it’s scary thinking about all you can lose, but in essence it’s lost already. The only was to get it back is to take decisive steps. Along with the line that you can’t nice them back, is the sister thought that you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it.

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2204   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8818292
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 8:18 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

How do you successfully implement or start to implement 180 when you live in the same house, have no where else to go for a bit of separation, and have to both look after our young kids?

Do you have a spare bedroom? SHE must move out of your marital bedroom and sleep there. Don’t have a spare? She sleeps on the couch. She doesn’t like it? Tough shit. Oh, and she must purchase you a new bed, using money she independently earns. She explicitly signs a document that new bed is a gift to you, so it’s not considered marital property.

For the 180 in the same house, you do not speak to her unless it’s about the kids. You don’t need to be a jerk about it (although she may well accuse you of exactly that) but you treat her like she’s a stranger on the subway/tube. No small talk. No talk of planning for the future. As far as possible, I’d try to eat in separate rooms. She killed the marriage. Don’t pretend it’s still alive.

And don’t spoon feed her anything in terms of recovery or reconciliation. The only way it ever works is if the adulterous spouse does their own research, initiates their own counseling (DO NOT agree to marriage counseling), owns their own shit, and becomes 100% transparent in EVERYTHING.

If she starts showing signs of remorse, we can guide you from there. Which leads me to ask:

- Why did she confess?
- What’s her attitude now?
- Is she blaming you at all in any way?
- Does she claim to want the marriage?

posts: 456   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8818293
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 Brlywtr (original poster new member #84263) posted at 8:30 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Thanks so much for all of the replies so far, it really means a lot.

Due to my low mood and depression, things had become slightly stale, and there was bickering, but never enough to even consider doing what she did.

She never once tried to sit us down to talk about any issues or help me with my mood. No real support.

She has used my depression as blame for what she did and is still doing. She doesn't know I know it's still happening at this exact moment. She thinks I believe her that all contact has stopped. I'm just hiding my time and collecting my thoughts at the moment.

I genuinely believe she confessed because she has told this guy she loves him, and they have spoken about the future etc.

I'll be honest, when it comes to legalities and money, she won't have a clue, she won't have thought through how this affects the kids, what her mortgagbility would be on a single earning, how neither of us could afford to maintain and own this house on our own either way.

I'm the worrier in this relationship, she's spur of the moment and impulsive. There's me already spoken to 2 lawyers, and got possible rentals lined up. But I'm just too scared to pull the trigger and rip my life apart, even though that is what she has done and is continuing to do.

She's very cold with me, told me there is no spark, not once has tried to initiate any cuddles or anything even when I was a mess on the bedroom floor the night she told me.

She says she is scared for the future and the kids, yet still contacts and messages this guy. I have no idea if he still comes around when I go to work.

posts: 39   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8818295
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 9:13 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

How do you do the 180 while in the same house?

Suppose a pleasant stranger approaches you on the street and asks you for directions. Now I am sure that since they asked you in a pleasant manner you would not be rude to them. Chances are that you would smile back at them and give them the directions. However, since you do not know them you probably would not embellish your answer to them... you would give the directions and nothing more.

The 180 tells you not to start conversations, however, if you are the one who normally begins the conversations between you two, then be brief and to the point. Not need to drag out and add words not needed.

If she asks you a question, give her the briefest answer you can... but in a pleasant, cordial manner.

Be positive around her, even if you feel your world in caving in on you. Be cheerful around her, but not overly enthusiastic.

See, here is the thing. Right now she takes you for granted and she is sure that you will always be around and want her forever. In her mind she is the "prize" and she has two men fighting for her. She needs an awakening. There are 33 points to the 180. Point 33 says,

"When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

Your actions will eventually convince her that you are ready to move on with your life with or without her.

The 180 is tough, but as long as she remains in her affair, the rewards are worth it.

One other thing about the 180. It is not about being separated, per se, but more like you are going on with your life. You don't follow her around the house telling her how much you love her... wanting her attention like a puppy. You act like you are a strong confident man and you have a life to live... with or without her.

Good luck to you.

posts: 305   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8818298
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:19 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Well, obviously, she’s NOT the love of your life.

That woman is still out there, waiting for you. You, YOU may hold her to that esteem, but the feeling is not mutual.

Don’t let fear guide your actions. Fear of loss, losing the "love of your life", fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear that you won’t be able to do better, fear of losing access to the kids, financial fear. Fear will paralyze you and make you highly susceptible to manipulation, rug sweeping, and extremely shortsighted decision making.

The only thing you should be fearful of is the loss of your dignity and agency.

One excellent way to reduce paralyzing fear, is to consult an attorney. A good attorney will pave the way to salvation, instill hope, give you an objective view of your outcome, the light at the end of the tunnel, and empower you.

Your WW has/is already deciding your fate and will continue to do so until you take action.

The first action you should take is The 180. I don’t have a lot of time to go over The 180, but there’s a lot of information in the Healing Library and forthcoming from other posters.

Also, I recommend Bigger’s Speech. It’s basically releasing your WS to continue her affair, BUT NOT AS YOUR WIFE. It fits in really well with The 180.

Your WS is actively cheating in your face. The only possible way to break her out of her affair dementia is consequences. Real, hard, bracing consequences like divorce papers slapping her upside the head.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:22 PM, Thursday, December 14th]

"If nothing in life matters, then all that matters is what we do."

posts: 1330   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8818299
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 9:49 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

If you'd like to see how effective the 180 is, there is a very, very simple thing you can do.

Come home from work, feed the kids, get them showered, and put them to bed. Do everything you normally do without engaging her or inviting her to participate.. She'll be relived because it gives her privacy to snap, text, messenger, whatever it is how she contacts him.

After kids go to bed... Walk out the front door, get in your car, and leave. Don't say anything, just leave.
Go to a book store, a coffee shop, a park, a movie... it doesn't really matter. Ignore any texts, decline any calls. Be gone for a few hours.

Come home climb into bed, don't say good night, no cuddle, just roll over and sleep.

She will be very curious where you were. Don't answer it's not her business anymore. Just say "I was out. I am back now." thats it. Repeat as necessary but say nothing else.

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8818302
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 10:20 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

PS:

Do not stay in this marriage "for the kids".

Staying in a toxic zombie marriage "for the kids" is a terrible mistake, especially kids as young and impressionable as yours. If you had older teens, and you’re waiting for them to graduate, that’s one thing, but young children who are in their formative years, no. Your kids will be seriously impacted by any toxicity and inauthenticity. Their perception of marriage, love, and healthy problem resolution, emotional intimacy, wholesome communication will all be grotesquely warped growing up in a bullshit marriage.

Let them observe a Father who takes care of business, resolves problems pragmatically and definitively, doesn’t permit disrespect, protects his dignity and, AND is genuinely happy.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:41 PM, Thursday, December 14th]

"If nothing in life matters, then all that matters is what we do."

posts: 1330   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8818307
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Jajaynumb ( member #83674) posted at 10:28 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

You could read my story in my signature if you want to know how bad things can go if you don’t act after Dday.

My advice is slightly different to most and it’s that you leave. I can’t advise on the details but for me it was the best thing I did to get away from that toxic person. Alternatively make her leave. Forget your anniversary, that’s absolutely insane. Your wife is sleeping with another man you’re not going out for dinner looking to rekindle a spark.

I have two young kids too. And I knew that if we split up I’d leave the country. I hate that they are so far away but I had to leave for my own survival.

Get out of the situation as fast as you can. There is no way to fix this unless you put your foot down hard and she comes crawling back full of remorse. Anything less won’t work, I promise you.

https://library.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/661294/worse-than-hell-yes-its-all-true/

posts: 174   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8818310
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 11:30 PM on Thursday, December 14th, 2023

Due to my low mood and depression, things had become slightly stale, and there was bickering, but never enough to even consider doing what she did.

She never once tried to sit us down to talk about any issues or help me with my mood.

This is how you know that the excuses you're hearing are bullshit. If your depression was the problem, why weren't your WW's actions pointed at your depression? How does involving herself with an outside romantic/sexual interest cure your depression?

WS's don't think about it, but what they're saying essentially when they claim that their needs aren't being met within the relationship or whatever is that their behavior is predicated on their partner's actions. How does that make it better? If anything, it makes it worse because what she's saying is that she has no personal responsibility in her fidelity. It's all up to you... actually, even worse, her perception of you. shocked

I'm going to save myself some typing and reprint an old post which illuminates my feelings on the "unmet needs" fallacy. It's unfortunate that we have to educate ourselves in a hurry on the subject of infidelity, but I think that once you do, you'll see that the cheating is about your WW and not about you. There are still all sorts of experts who are educated in this old dogma, so yeah, it feels really counterintuitive to reject it. I guarantee you though that once you really wrap your mind around the fact that this is a her problem and NOT a you problem, the advice you're hearing will start making sense. Right now, I'm sure it sounds harsh to your ears because every instinct is telling you to cajole and appease. What that gets you though, is either a WS who eases her way out of the marriage at her own pace, or one who still believes that her fidelity is predicated on YOUR behavior. shocked



My own WH went on a Craigslist binge seven years ago, multiple partners, various degrees of emotional attachment. He even thought he was in love at one point. But ten years before that, I'd caught him out in some online shenanigans, porn, cybersexing, emotional affair, etc. In fact, I caught him out only two weeks before a planned meet-up. I'd already seen an attorney before I confronted him and I was bent on divorce, but he pretty much cried his way out of it and I settled on MC. As you might have guessed already, we too were bamboozled with the "unmet needs" model of therapy, which sounds so reasonable. I upped my wife game, and did my best pick-me polka, but within a couple of years, he was right back at it behind my back. By the time we reached the ten year mark, he had screwed up his nerve to go live and in person on Craigslist.

Of course, I was pretty shocked as you might imagine. I thought we were good. I thought his "needs" were met. Damned if I hadn't been turning myself inside out for a decade to make sure, right? The more I thought about it, the more I revisited what I knew about the "unmet needs model", the less it made sense. I was doing everything right and he still CHOSE to cheat.

Here's the fly in the "unmet needs" ointment...

Healthy ADULTS don't need to be validated. They validate internally. Healthy adults are self-fruitful in the matter of contentment and life satisfaction, and when things come up which make them unhappy, they address the cause and solve the problem. OTOH, the vast majority of cheaters cheat because they're seeking external validation. They are NOT emotionally healthy. They can't do it on their own. They've got a hole inside them and no amount of external validation will fill it. Certainly, the old and familiar validation of a spouse doesn't get the job done. Our "kibbles" are stale and boring. They don't create enough adrenaline anymore to make the cheater feel special. It's like getting an "atta boy" from your mom, right?

This is old pop-psy which is still being taught in schools and still selling books. But it's bullshit. NOTHING you can do (or fail to do) can MAKE another person throw away their core values and do something that's in this kind of opposition to good character. If you're a person who BELIEVES in fidelity, who VALUES fidelity, you don't cheat. End of story. Because when we truly value something we protect it. The cheater has a "but..." in his values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, but... not if my needs aren't being met." For people like you and me, we have a "so..." in our values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, so... I don't put myself in risky situations with the opposite sex." This is the BOUNDARY we create organically. We don't sit around planning it out. It just happens, because it's innate to our character to protect what we value. The cheater doesn't have those boundaries because he doesn't really honor his values. He only claims to.

I'm not saying that your marriage is over or that your WH can't change. What I am saying though is that this "unmet needs" model is NOT going to challenge him to clean up his flawed character. In fact, it allows him to offload responsibility onto the marriage and onto YOU. It's not your job to MAKE him feel (fill-in-the-blank-here). It never was. It's his job to manage his feelings. You could have been doing everything exactly perfect for the entire length of your marriage, and he would still have cheated... because there's NOTHING in his character stopping him and he has no coping mechanism to fall back on when he feels unvalidated, inadequate, unappreciated, etc.

It's HIS job to see that his "needs" get met. Sometimes that might mean negotiating with you, say if it's about sex or about the division of labor in your home, etc. But sometimes, it might mean that what he sees as a "need" is unhealthy in an adult, like external validation through attention and flattery.

MC's are there to treat the marriage. The marriage is the client. So, of course they're going to talk about communications, resentments and expectations. The MC doesn't want to alienate anyone, so s/he's looking to find balance on both sides. But marriages don't cheat. People do. The only way your WH is going to make a change that safeguards against further perfidy is by correcting his need for external validation and becoming an emotionally healthy adult whose deeds are as good as his word. No excuses, just honoring the things he claims to value. For that, I would recommend IC (individual counseling) with a therapist who is well-versed in adultery.

The last thing any newly-minted BS needs is to walk into an MC's office, believing that they've come to safe harbor, and being handed a copy of The Five Love Languages or some other "unmet needs" gobbledygook. It would be really nice if we actually did have the power to control our mate by giving them "acts of service" or "words of affirmation", but sadly, we aren't gods who can stop a cheater from seeking out his/her choice of adrenaline rush and new kibbles. Although, this kind of pop-psy suggests that their behavior is somehow our responsibility. The more you dig into this ridiculous line of thought, the more absurd it becomes.

Anyway... sorry for the lengthy post. Nothing fries my ass more than seeing new BS's being sold this bill of goods.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7075   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8818318
Topic is Sleeping.
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