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So I've been lurking around the forums for almost 11 months now since my DD but have not posted previously. I have been on here enough to know that this question may provoke answers that tell me even asking this question means my WW has not 'gotten it' or that I have a lousy IC etc. I'd like to heed answers of that type with saying to begin with that I am well aware of the risk of wanting to rug sweep (believe me, there has been NONE of that in our case and there will never be at a later point either), I've read all the books recommended, I've seen hundreds of hours of videos on the topic and I have come down HARD on my WW since DD and still am. There are no blinders on here. And I guess that's where I'm starting to question. What if I as a BP am starting to realise that I, might, in fact, be the largest hinder to R at the moment, even though I want nothing more?

Morning after DD WH immediately ended his 2,5 month long EA + PA in an email I got to read first where he left no doubt as to that he meant it and wants to R with his wife and family. He has been NC since. They work at the same office but on different floors and have avoided each other since and he has since been applying for new jobs every week as per my request as a non-negotiable that he switch jobs, however we live in a small town with slim opportunities for his field so so far no luck, he has even applied out of country, still hoping something will turn up. We started MC immediately (we were already in it for a year before the A)and are still in it, I was already in IC due to childhood trauma, he has started IC as well. We've done the books, watched the videos, talked, talked, talked. Mostly I have raged, screamed, cried and been in complete PTSD mode. It's been really bad, as I've had trauma from previously and also previous betrayal trauma this was a hit I was unable to cope with in any form or way. We've got the tracking apps, complete transparency, changed behaviour consistent over time etc.
Basically he's 'done it all' as is often stated, no not perfectly, he gets defensive and drops into shame spirals easily and obviously it's still pretty early days. But all in all, I would say things are going and working 'adequately' for the situation. We both wanted R immediately, none of us has really doubted that at any moment. He has not apart from maybe the first 24h tried to blame me or our marriage (that WAS in deed in a lot of trouble we were already in MC befor the affair) for it. He has fully 'owned' it whatever that means for people.

I am starting to realise, after discussing this at some length in my IC mostly, that I myself may now have become my own worst enemy in hindering my recovery from this pain. He has done and said everything he possibly could I believe to aid any R and help me in my recovery from this hell. But I am really stuck in anger, punishing him as good as daily with rage an verbal abuse. I have really let him have it for the entire time and he has mostly put up with all my raging and acting like a complete crazy person for 10+ months, setting some boundaries a few times only when I admittedly went too far with the verbal abuse. Most days I'm writing him 50+ messages asking a million gazillion questions he's answered every single time before, and just flooding, and I feel like I could really need some advise on how to start seeing him as an equal again and not JUST as the low life POS as I am now seeing, and treating him. And yes, I am sure it's R I want, for some mad reason I still love this low life. And I am just not ready to give up 20+ years of marriage for a number of reasons. I believe we can actually be one of this unicorn couples, we've been through a lot of difficult things in life together over the years (non-relationship related).
I've understood the part of me needing to heal myself since day one so hence IC every week, EMDR, EFT tapping, mindfulness, I work out 4 times per week, lots of self care, journaling, you name it. But how do I start working with myself on seeing him more as a flawed human again and not just a monster and the reason for my pain? How does one start accepting this, REALLY accepting, that this is now part of my story, our story and not punish him every moment of every day for that? How does one start letting go of the bitterness, need to hurt back, need for justice that can never be? I know I'm in deep than some due to my significant trauma from before so I may need more time as well, but any advice would be much appreciated also.

Although your rage and anger are justifiable, as mine was too, I’m betting you don’t like the way it makes you feel. It’s hard to feel loved and respected when you aren’t behaving lovingly and respectfully towards others- even if they deserve it. A big part of my work is just that- being in touch with who I wanted to be. I read Living and loving after betrayal and did (still do) the exercises daily. My focus on my own healing is helping me feel good about who I am. I’m in R, but our main focus is still working on ourselves individually.

The A may have been a deal breaker for you but you didn’t know that during the shock of dday. It’s ok to change your mind. R isn’t a must for you to heal and you can take it back anytime and ending it would be better for the both of you than you abusing him.

I'm surprised your MC and/or IC hasn't put you in check. Are y'all being honest with your Cs about what's happening between you? It's important for your recovery, not just R, that you act with integrity. Raging and name-calling isn't good for anyone. I bet that if you can rein yourself in and stop berating him, he'll start to organically seem more human. Fake it until you make it. He made some horrible choices and hurt you terribly, but he's not a monster. It sounds like he's answering your Qs and doing what's needed to R, right?

Most days I'm writing him 50+ messages asking a million gazillion questions he's answered every single time before, and just flooding

Set a time - every day if that's what you need - to ask your questions. My H and I would sit on the porch after the kids went to bed and talk. You've gotta stop with the all-day-long focus on infidelity. You both need a break, and you both probably need to get some work done. My H worked in the same building as the AP for many years after the A, so I get needing to check in periodically while he's in the lion's den, but just do that and stop with the questions. Maybe something like, "Just checking in. Feeling insecure." And he can respond with "All is well. No contact." Or whatever you need.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:39 PM, Thursday, October 12th]

But how do I start working with myself on seeing him more as a flawed human again and not just a monster and the reason for my pain? How does one start accepting this, REALLY accepting, that this is now part of my story, our story and not punish him every moment of every day for that? How does one start letting go of the bitterness, need to hurt back, need for justice that can never be?

I think what helped me most was the realization that I had made an active CHOICE to stay. No one made me do that. A cheater takes our agency when they deceive us, but once our agency is our own again, it's up to us to decide where we want to stand. I chose to stay. I own that choice.

Part of making that choice was my recognition that there wasn't ever going to be any "justice". Justice would have demanded that I sever the relationship. Divorce was the punishment my WH had earned, but I was choosing to forego it. Is that his fault or mine? I'm the one making the choice after all. And yeah, these were not the parameters I would have wished for. What I would have chosen if I could have had anything I wanted was to NOT have to choose between keeping a cheater or leaving him. My preference would have obviously been him NOT cheating. But that's not an option. What happened.. happened. It will never have not happened.

My WH is a separate person, with his own strengths and his own flaws. He's not an appendage of me, and while it's true that our marriage makes us two halves of a whole, that dynamic only applies to the marriage, not to the individuality of one's being. You can't punish one half of a whole, so any damage I could have done to him, hurt the marriage, and thus me. So, there was no point in me trying to make him pay for his crime. What coin pays for pain?

There came a point where I had to accept that going forward meant that I was CHOOSING to keep this flawed individual in my life, that I was CHOOSING to act in good faith toward maintaining the marriage, that I was CHOOSING to forego justice. For me, it really came down to taking ownership of the choices I was making.

Well said, CT.

Hi Miserylikescompany, Welcome to SI.

INFO: Do you really see him as a monster when you're calm and removed from the situation, or do you just feel that way when you're triggered and emotionally flooded?

MLC, we sound very similar. I wanted reconciliation and my husband has been a "model" WS, occasional defensiveness early on until he found a good IC. I was stuck in anger for years. I screamed and called him every name under the sun. We were fired by our MC because I literally screamed and bawled and we weren't getting anywhere. He took it though, of course at the time I thought he completely deserved it. I finally hit rock bottom after a particular emotional night, I found an amazing IC and finally got on proper medications. I had to really focus on my behavior and "poor me" victim mentality. We were finally able to move forward as a team. We are 5 years out and in a completely new place. Good luck to you, it takes time, time and more time.

I also raged at my xWS for YEARS, but he wasn't remorseful and put me through False R. I too had a traumatic childhood and past and wonder if that is why. It was really hard to contain myself. I felt like I was raging for all the injustices since childhood. Maybe a counselor that deals with complex c-PTSD would be helpful to you to process out all the rage. The A could have been a dealbreaker for you and there is nothing wrong with that.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 10:22 PM, Thursday, October 12th]

After some time, I had to set a boundary on myself regarding the raging. I recognized that I was flooding, and that wasn't helpful to either of us. What are some boundaries that you can place on you and enforce?

Two things helped me. I lived in the country, and I could sit on the porch and howl with one of the dogs. I mean, that pain came from my soul and I was able to get the pain out. Other times, I would sit in my car and scream and cry until my voice was gone.

I didn't do the million messages a minute, also for two reasons. His job was physical and he couldn't stop and respond to my texts all the time. He'd have been written up and lost his job. Second, it was the way I was raised. I wasn't able to contact my mom at work for any old reason. It had to be an extreme emergency like somebody needed to go to the hospital or somebody died.

When I felt myself raging or flooding with my XWH, I would disengage and take a 30-minute break. After 30 minutes, then I would try discussing things with him again. Granted, it took me awhile to get to this place. Also, I had a series of questions that I had written down and would ask him. I would type his responses and ask about any changes between the previous time and now.

It's important for your recovery, not just R, that you act with integrity.

^^^Totally disagree with this statement.

I was a fairly calm woman prior to D Day. After 2-3 months or so after the initial shock, I turned into a raging lunatic. It helped my WH understand the damage he caused. It helped me get my emotions out. My WH dumped OW on D-Day and was able to find another job several months later (OW worked for the same company but on the opposite coast.)

There were times when I would go for a drive and scream blood curdling screams. Sometimes that helped.

The rage was not only bc of the affair, his TT as well, and the fact that he traveled a great deal while I did EVERYTHING at home, shuffling three kids to three different schools, all their after school activities, working part time and back in school part time, cooking, bills, cleaning, you name it, I did it. While he was out with colleagues wining and dining probably 10-12 nights per month...resentment set in.

At some point, I would email my WH with questions, many of them repeated and try to get an honest response from him (not always the case, he sometimes minimized). I did not bother him too much at work, maybe a phone call or a few texts or occasionally one of my emails that he answered when he had a break, I did have access to his work emails and accountability for his whereabouts at all times.

After the A, my WH rarely, if ever, socialized on the job again.

Most here will agree that year 2 is harder than year 1 because your new reality sets in.

As leafields might have implied(?), I think you flood, and my reco is to work with your IC to do something more effective than lashing out.

I also think you're doing yourself a disservice in messaging your thoughts and feelings. My reco is to do as much face-to-face talking and listening and as little messaging as you can. I think you'll get much more out of your comms face-to-face than you can possibly get from messaging, because the non-verbals are much more important than the words.

What do you do when you realise you may need to check yourself?

If you work with a good IC, you'll find out the answer is simple - you just check yourself. Learning to recognize flooding and learning how to check yourself can be difficult, so give yourself a break. Flooding abd lashing out are normal for most of us after being betrayed; it's not a crime. It's just that it's much better for us not to lash out when flooding.

My guess is that you experience the flooding as an unsolvable problem. Remember, though, that you have your feelings; they don't have you. You really can learn to process your feelings and your flooding.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:42 PM, Friday, October 13th]

It's important for your recovery, not just R, that you act with integrity.

^^^Totally disagree with this statement.

When is it ever a bad idea to act with integrity? I'm wondering if you're thinking that I'm suggesting that anger isn't healthy? If so, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Nothing in what you wrote indicates that you weren't acting with integrity, IMO. Raging in the car by yourself is different than stomping around your house raging all over other people every day and feeling shitty because you're doing it. (Feeling shitty is a good indication that one isn't in integrity with oneself.) I mean, "they" say that raging isn't healthy, but shit, raging is a 100% normal response to being cheated on. Lord knows I did it. I know every damn word to Limp Bizkit's "Break Stuff" because I'd go for drives with the windows down and blast it on a loop and beat the steering wheel. I beat the shit out of my couch with a Nerf bat. But I did that stuff by myself because that's what felt right to me. There was no one else getting hurt by it. Witnessing someone raging is scary, especially for kids. Someone in a rage could pop off and do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

IMO, to be in integrity with your anger with the WS is to say (through gritted teeth or at elevated volume, if need be,) "You hurt me and I am pissed as hell. I really don't like you right now." Or whatever you're feeling. But to name-call and rage and scream with an intended audience isn't cool. Getting on the crazy train during the work day and sending 50+ messages with questions you've already asked isn't cool. Abusing (OP's word) your WS when what you really want is to R isn't cool. It isn't getting you anywhere good. It isn't being in integrity with yourself.

I always say that if you get right with yourself, everything else will fall into place. OP isn't right with herself and she knows it and she's asked for help with it. Step one is getting right with herself, aka being in integrity with herself. JMO.

I guess I am one that feels that the WS deserves rage after D-Day. I honestly did not feel bad or guilty for any of it and I did not and still do not believe I acted with no integrity. Where I lost my integrity was when I had my own revenge affair. Raging all the time is detrimental to one's health so I would definitely try to get it under control for yourself. WS should be the intended audience for post infidelity rage. While I know it's not good to verbally abuse (I am guilty of that also on occasion) I think anger and rage is normal as long as it doesn't became a normality in the marriage. Eventually the rage needs to be reigned in and better coping mechanisms in place.

I looked up the definition of "rage": violent, uncontrollable anger

We were taught in MC that rage wasn't okay. That's not to say that I didn't ever rage, but I sure as hell tried to rein myself in when I felt it wanting to bubble up. I don't remember the string of f-bombs that I spewed when my H confessed on DDay in the MC's office; MC even asked us if there were any weapons in our home. So I'm not perfect, but I always aspire to do the healthy thing. And rage isn't healthy. I think the experts agree. I just read a note from a study mentioned in a Psychology Today article:

Myth: Venting your anger releases it.

Punching your pillow, trashing the room, or screaming to your heart's content doesn't actually "release" your pent up rage. In fact, research suggests that venting your anger in this way actually has the opposite effect: The more you vent, the worse you'll feel.

INFO: Do you really see him as a monster when you're calm and removed from the situation, or do you just feel that way when you're triggered and emotionally flooded?

emergent8 - Mostly I think this is a severe case of flooding uncontrollably way to often and me not being able to handle lit adequately yet. Like I mentioned, I have some pretty severe trauma and CPTSD and I've suffered with anxiety issues and been on antidepressants for that for years. This was also why I was already in psychotherapy when the atomic bomb hit. I was in no way equipped to handle one more trauma, and for me personally, this was about the worst thing that could happen. I have bucketloads of betrayal trauma from childhood but also from a previous relationship that ended due to infidelity, so this has been the perfect storm in my life. I also lost my job just a couple of months after DD so it was a double whammy that has set by recovery back badly.

But I do feel like he is not perhaps a monster, but less than before? I'm really really struggling with accepting that the one person in my life I relied heavily on and that I believed was a genuinely good, decent man, could do something like this. Some of the things he did during the A are to me just so mind boggling, how could this man I have loved and admired for 20+ years sink this low?? I feel like I've lost my respect for him as a person and a man, and I'm trying hard to rebuild that (as is he but I'm realising that a big part of this needs also to happen within me). I'm grieving the loss of what I thought was a special relationship where I thought I, and our marriage, were as important and sacred to him as to me.
I just don't know who he is, and I'm doubting whether I ever have? Is this a severe lapse of judgement from a basically good man? or is this his true character that has been revealed to me but has always been there? I just can not fathom how he could do this to me and us after all we have been through, and since we were at the time in MC and he sat there lying for months about how he felt we were doing so much better and getting closer. Ugh. Sometimes feelings of disgust for him just come over me like a wave.
But in calmer moments, those are more and more present thank god, I do still se him as the love of my life albeit one with some major dents now. I still want to grow old with him and I love family life with him. It's just that I am REALLY struggling to reign in my emotions and I explode at the blink of an eye. Usually from frustration, grief or fear, that shows up as anger, screaming and name calling, and then turn into sobbing.

He may in fact deserve my rage and all he's getting, in fact, what he really would deserve would be to be kicked out and outed for the world to see what a douchebag he is. But I don't deserve to feel this shitty anymore and this emotional rollercoaster is hurting me too much so I want to start reining it in. Also, since I have chosen to try R and I have considered whether it's actually doable for me or perhaps this just broke me too much (jury's still out on that one but I'm still hopeful), I want to start moving forward, for me, for us. So any suggestions on practical tips on how to handle the flooding, alternative ways to get the rage out ?(I already work out 4 times a week and pretty much beat him up in my head that entire time with LOUD Music in my ears ).

SacredSoul33 oh I definitely agree with the definitions. I just don't want the BS to feel more bad about themselves when they already do. People feel rage after someone is murdered and I think it's a normal response for some. Infidelity felt like my soul was murdered and my xWS could have cared less and that exacerbated my rage. Controlling my rage post D-Day was one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do and I didn't rage before D-Day. CBT therapy really helped me with that. My children have noticed I don't get upset at the things I normally used to get upset about so the therapy really helps.

I just don't know who he is, and I'm doubting whether I ever have? Is this a severe lapse of judgement from a basically good man? or is this his true character that has been revealed to me but has always been there? I just can not fathom how he could do this to me and us after all we have been through, and since we were at the time in MC and he sat there lying for months about how he felt we were doing so much better and getting closer. Ugh. Sometimes feelings of disgust for him just come over me like a wave.

I relate so hard to this. We also started MC before DDay wherein we were talking about the problems in the marriage and I was taking heat when, in fact, HE was the problem in the marriage. That'll make a person pretty stabby.

Also, all these years later, I'm working on removing the (rose colored?) layers of my vision of who he is/was and getting down to the reality of him. We tell ourselves so many stories about the people in our lives, but our stories may not match the real story. Does that make sense? It's like I assumed he thought a lot more like I do than he actually does. I was assigning my values to his thought processes. He likes to say now that he has a 3-step thought process and mine is about 36 steps, and that he's working on adding more steps and being more mindful about what he does instead of being impulsive and compartmentalized.

I couldn't fathom how a man who chased me for years and put me on a pedestal and continued to say he loved and adored me could DO THAT to me. Three times. Compartmentalization, I guess.

I just don't want the BS to feel more bad about themselves when they already do.

Oh, I hope it didn't come off as me trying to shame Misery. I'm so sorry if it did. I felt more like I was giving advice that I would give to a friend.

Controlling my rage post D-Day was one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do and I didn't rage before D-Day. CBT therapy really helped me with that. My children have noticed I don't get upset at the things I normally used to get upset about so the therapy really helps.

I so agree. Rage is hard to control when your WS has treated you poorly, or when they've dumped their shit on you and bolted, leaving you with a tangled, painful mess. But I do think that we have to try, and we have to advise our new friends to also try. We shouldn't advocate for rage here on SI, IMO. We can talk about it and commiserate about it and accept that it does happen, but we should be encouraging each other to do our best.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 7:18 PM, Friday, October 13th]

It's up to each of us to choose to love and/or respect someone, but after d-day, the WS has to earn back respect and trust, and it take 1000s of little trust-/respect-building actions to do so.

Forcing yourself to respect him, for instance, probably won't work well, if that's what you're doing. Figure 2 years minimum to recover in R - it takes a long time to do 1000s of actions.