SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Three things -- Wife admitted to an EA three years ago. She's still in contact with the AP, and has refused to go no contact, has refused to let me see texts or emails, and has said that it would be a "deal breaker" for our marriage if I insisted on any of the above. (1) Serious question -- Am I being a controlling spouse or a bully if I insist that she go no contact with this guy or demand access to her phone to, I don't know, see what she has been up to with the AP, so I can have some peace of mind? (2) Also serious -- I'm an old man and spending the rest of my life alone isn't a happy prospect. Any good stories about finding meaningful love so late in life? And (3) not a serious question -- Aren't there any more pointed words to use about this whole sordid mess than "affair," which sounds like a formal dinner party, or "affair partner," which sounds like the person seated next to you at that dinner party by the hostess?

I am sorry you are suffering in your marriage with a spouse who cares so little for your feelings.

You are not being controlling by asking for your wife to stop contact with her affair partner or with the guy who is ruining your marriage.

You can ask for access to her phone. But she’s not going to give it to you. And she’s expecting you won’t do much about it.

Right now she’s controlling the situation. And she’s very happy to do so b/c she gets everything she wants. A secure home life. Her "friend". And all the benefits of running the show.

Have you thought about professional counseling to give you some support?

Have you read up on the 180 and realize you can stop being her husband in some ways? There are degrees of separation between each stage of 180 - but it is not to stop the affair and/or cheating but is designed to get you from having to sit back and watch the affair happen in front of you.

You can stop paying her phone bill. You can stop paying her credit cards. You can stop having meals with her. You can stop talking to her if you wish.

But you need to be prepared to stand your ground and not cave in when she tries to retaliate. I was a doormat for 25 years. When I found out my H was still cheating I told him I was D him and stopped being a victim and allowing him to cheat. I did the very hard 180 and it was the best decision I ever made.

He lost all control and had no power in our marriage. He still doesn’t. Not in a mean way but in a way that protects me.

And in answer to your question my grandmother was widowed 3x and each husband was a gem. She met and married 3 wonderful men. Proud to call each one my grandfather.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:01 PM, Monday, December 9th]

(1) No, she's unreasonable in maintaining the relationship with AP at the expense of your relationship. I mean, what did your wedding vows say about forsaking all others? (2) I'm in my 60's and having more fun now than I did with XWH. I'm doing stuff solo, but did so much without him during the M. It's more fun now that I don't have to walk on egg shells to keep him happy. (3) You can call them whatever you want. AP is a short cut that we use. You can say anything like worthless piece of trash (WPOT), waste of sperm (WOS), b*tch, whatever you want. EllieKMAS was always good at coming up with names or situations that we'd like to see them experience.

My question to you is why do you put up with this? My grandma married was married 3 times, the last after the age of 80. She outlived them all and passed at 89.

Com1c

I read your older posts where you tell us how you have combed through Not Just Friends.

The more important question is: Has she? Has she read it and have the two of you discussed the book?

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You mention she’s especially bad when drinking. Is alcohol an issue? Do you both or either of you have a tendency to drink and are your conflicts worse when drinking?

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1. You’re not being controlling; you’re asking your wife to prioritize your relationship above all others and not keep secrets from you. That’s what she vowed she would do when she married you. That’s the bare minimum you should expect.

2. I divorced in my 30s so I can’t give you the perspective of someone who split later than life.

But I can tell you this: one of the reasons I got divorced was that I couldn’t imagine getting older with someone who was unfaithful (even "just" emotionally) and who treated me with disrespect.

Can you trust a woman who won’t even show you her phone to make decisions on your behalf that are in your best interests if you were ever seriously ill and incapacitated? Do you think she’s selfish and self-sacrificing enough to give you the love, care, and devotion you will need in the latter part of your life?

How do you think the anxiety and stress that you’re under as a result of her affair is impacting your health right now? How might the cumulative impact of that stress harm you in the future?

In short… you have to ask yourself whether your fear of being alone is worth the cost of getting old with a woman you can’t trust and whose heart belongs to someone else.

3. If affair is too euphemistic, then call it what it is: an extramarital romantic relationship. If that’s too verbose, you can just say your wife has a boyfriend or lover, which is also true.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:29 PM, Monday, December 9th]

You want to be married; she wants to be single.

Sucks.

But I can tell you this: one of the reasons I got divorced was that I couldn’t imagine getting older with someone who was unfaithful (even "just" emotionally) and who treated me with disrespect.

and also the last post by Formerpeopleperson

my thought - you should spend some time working on your self-respect

Read: "No More Mr. Nice Guy"

I suggest you run, not walk, to a lawyer and get away from your tormentor.

I’m sorry OP but your fear of losing her, despite how crappy she treats you, has caused her to lose any respect she may have ever had for you. Your fear stops you from enforcing boundaries - like no contact with AP. Boundaries are NOT in any way "controlling". Your wife labeling you that term is HER manipulation, plain and simple. And sadly, it’s working for her.

I’d strongly suggest individual therapy for you to explore why you’re willing to tolerate being treated this way.

Here’s how you destroy her "controlling" argument:

"Wife, you are free to choose to keep in contact with AP. And I am free to choose to leave this relationship where I’m treated like pond scum."

Thing is, you need to be 1000% prepared to actually end the relationship and leave before saying this. If you say this, but don’t have the cohonas to follow thru, she’ll have even less respect for you than she ever did. This is the way out, but you must first be prepared to walk. You likely think you can’t do better than her. Dude. Yes you can. Easily.

I don't know how old you are, but as life goes on, there are more single women than single men. My reco is to consider D or even S.

I'm not happy with the choice you have. If you tell her you'll D her if she doesn't dump her ap, and she dumps her ap, how will you know she chose you or a meal ticket? She's not remorseful, so she could acquiesce on the surface and start looking for a new ap or go underground with this ap....

I like to think I would D my W if she were in an A, but I don't know - I don't even want to know - what I'd actually do. I'd like to think I'd D in your sitch because your W has chosen this guy over your for years late in life, but I don't know what I'd actually do. But if finances permitted maintaining 2 households, I think I'd pay the price.

If you D, you do run the risk of being alone. I think I'd probably better off alone than with a partner who hurts me every day. I just think it's possible that when you need your W, she won't come through. After all, you want her now, but she's telling you to STFU.

Do you have kids close by? Are you part of any groups, like church? Do you have close friends nearby? Do you have any single contemporaries who might be interested in living with someone?

1) Nope, not controlling.
2) No good stories that I can think of, but I talk with a number of single women who are sort of looking (not at me, they know I'm M and happy) and seem like potential good partners.
3) I'm unable to come up with any new general term for an A. I might call an ap a 'cheater'.

She's still in contact with the AP, and has refused to go no contact, has refused to let me see texts or emails, and has said that it would be a "deal breaker" for our marriage if I insisted on any of the above.

I have found it to be true that you must be willing to end the marriage in order to (potentially) save it. She has no incentive to stop prioritizing her EA; she knows at this point that you won't leave her if she doesn't. You've proven that. So break the deal. The only one in control of getting out of infidelity is you. She doesn't respect you, and she never will as long as you tolerate her infidelity.

I wholeheartedly agree with the recommendation to start the 180.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11

Aren't there any more pointed words to use about this whole sordid mess than "affair," which sounds like a formal dinner party, or "affair partner," which sounds like the person seated next to you at that dinner party by the hostess?

Cheater. Infidelity. Your little boyfriend.

Is the AP married? If so, does his wife know?

She's still in contact with the AP, and has refused to go no contact, has refused to let me see texts or emails, and has said that it would be a "deal breaker" for our marriage if I insisted on any of the above.

I'm paraphrasing, but a good bit of advice I got in my reddit thread before i got here was, "The only reason you shouldn't be reading the text messages between her and her boyfriend is because your lawyer is reading them to you out of discovery because you've tragically lost your vision".

1) It would be controlling if she didn't do anything wrong, but the problem is she has taken advantage of her privacy to deceive you and have a secret boyfriend. So this is not controlling, but is instead a reasonable measure of assurance.

A relationship isn't the court of law but the fourth amendment is instructive:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

We know you want to look at her text messages with her affair partner specifically. That said, if you did find anything there, complete electronic transparency is the bare minimum to help re-establish trust. All devices, all accounts, all passwords.

2) Sure. I know people that fell in love late in life. I also have a father of a friend that lives a hedonistic lifestyle in Nevada.

3) "Betrayal" and "infidelity" I think are stronger than "affair". I think the world is your oyster for insults to be applied to AP. Since I believe it's generally better to direct anger at you WW than the AP, I do find "boyfriend" effective. I think sarcasm works well too, "Casanova" "Fabio" and "sugar lips" are all solid choices.

NOT going NC with the AP and having total electronic transparency should be a deal-breaker for YOU! You aren’t being controlling and bullying her, she is doing that to you…..

1). No. All you are asking for is a "true life partner" who honors her wedding vows and commitment to you. "Privacy" doesn’t include the ability to freely carry on clandestine cheating....

2). I’m in my 60s. Being alone is scary and unappealing. So is living with a non-caring spouse who is selfish beyond words and willingly abuses my mental (and potential physical health) by actively cheating and threatening me if I don’t allow it to continue. In many ways, you are already "alone".

My best friend from childhood recently married his second wife at 62. They are like teenagers in love. He met his soulmate and true life partner after being cheated on by his first wife. He "stayed for the kids" and realizes now he should have gotten out way sooner.

3). I agree, I hate "wayward" too. Sounds like a child who wandered off walking through the forest.

It’s cheating, betraying, infidelity, adultery, fling, tryst, dalliance, hanky-panky, two-timing, etc. As far as the "affair partner", "POSOM" (pronounced "possum") is a good one. It stands for "Piece of Shit Other Man". I used Fuck Buddy or FB (which may or may not apply to your situation). Also, "Schmoopie" is a nice derisive one.

Am I being a controlling spouse?

Nope. She is.

She is cheating, has no desire to stop and wants you to STFU about it all while downplaying the severity of it.

If AP has a spouse/significant other - expose immediately.

She's playing you for a fool. And likes it.

I was watching Gone With the Wind the other day and it occurred to me that my wife thinks of her special friend like Scarlett O’Hara thought of Ashley Wilkes, the perfect man who is not ever going to be available. So, lately I have been entertaining myself when all alone by pretending to be her calling for him, "Ashley (friend’s last name), oh my Ashley, when can we ever be together again, Ashley?" It is funnier in a southern drawl, I promise. My ww is from the Northeast. Feel free to call the POS, Ashley Wilkes _______.

First, why are you with this horrible person. Second, no you're not being controlling when you are asking for less than the bare minimum (and, let's face it, you've set the bar so low that it's a tripping bar),you're actually being a doormat. Third, I'd rather be a happily divorced and alone single old lady than with an ass hat like my ex, or one like your current wife. There is so much more peace and control over my happiness alone than with the cheating POS ex. And my ex at least maintained NC with the AP for a while. He also didn't gaslight me by saying I was being controlling when he was trying to stay in the M.
I truly hope you are willing to do what you need in the future to get out of infidelity one day. Good luck.