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As a WW I feel like I do not deserve to ask help/questions etc.
But here I go anyway.
I am one of those, that come and go. Due to time restriction and emotional issues - or whatever.

Anyway, as per my other posts - you will see it is going on for 13 ears. My BS just doesn't cope. I do not know what more to do. If I agree and tell him I was wrong I did wrong and I am sorry etc. Then he says I am having a pity party or Sorry doesn't fix anything.

If I suggest we get a divorce as I will be happy without having a whore as a wife, then he says I want to run away and not face the consequences.

Yes I was at fault - in summary
On D.day I resigned with immediate effect. (as it was a co-worker)
I had no contact with AP at all in all this time
I answered BS questions (this caused more issues as in my mind I told him the worst (that I had sex with AP) I confirmed the when where how etc.
more than 10 years later (after visiting the forum) I gave him the full timeline - now he doesn't believe me - this I get and understand.

BS is expecting something from me - and I do not know what. He tells me I do not do anything. The admit quilt, the empathy, and sympathy (all the to do as per the healing library) are not working - When I ask him what he expects of me, then he can not answer. (as he doesn't know himself)

It just feels like he expects me to erase the past - if that was possible.
Any advise please

Have you been to therapy to figure out why you cheated? Have you told him why? Did you blame him? Have you been defensive? Angry with questions, and consequences?

How long did you continue to lie, after dday?

Did you get tested for stds?

Are you transparent? Does he have full access to all accounts and the phone?

Did you continue to work at the same place as om? Or did you immediately, willingly, find a different job?

Do you ever bring up the affair,or is it always him?

What work did you do on yourself, to become a safe partner?

this caused more issues as in my mind I told him the worst (that I had sex with AP

This is concerning. Long ago,if you had done the work,you would have come go understand that complete honesty, and transparency, is 100% necessary. That you regret giving him the truth that he asked for,tells him he ant trust you to be honest, even when it's hard.

It could be a deal breaker for him, and he doesn't want to be the person to end the marriage. Have you offered a clean divorce?

If I suggest we get a divorce as I will be happy without having a whore as a wife,

This isn't the same thing as offering a clean divorce. Not when you throw in the self depreciation.

Also..if you call yourself a whore of a wife..you're telling him you're a whore. No man wants that as a wife. Stop saying it.

As a WW I feel like I do not deserve to ask help/questions etc.

With the very first line of your post, I can kind of see why your communication with your husband might go poorly and he accuses you of throwing a pity party. Asking for help in the General forum is scary; I totally get that and I commend you for pushing through your fear and doing it anyway.

But by prefacing your question with "I feel like I don't deserve to ask for help..." it seems as if you're fishing for comfort and sympathy.

So my first bit of advice is to cut it out with the self deprecation. As you've already observed, all it does is piss your husband off. For example, instead of saying "I feel like I don't deserve to ask for help..." you could say, for example, "I'm afraid to ask for help because of my past actions and lies."

The former phrasing communicates shame and self-pity; the latter communicates remorse and accountability.

If I suggest we get a divorce as I will be happy without having a whore as a wife, then he says I want to run away and not face the consequences.

Why do you want to reconcile?

If it's just because your husband accuses you of not wanting to "face the consequences," then he's wrong about that... divorce is a consequence. You'll still need to put in the work to heal yourself and grow as a person whether or not you remain married to him.

Also, you shouldn't stay married as a form of lifelong penance for your sins.

I answered BS questions (this caused more issues as in my mind I told him the worst (that I had sex with AP) I confirmed the when where how etc. more than 10 years later (after visiting the forum) I gave him the full timeline - now he doesn't believe me - this I get and understand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you only provided him with a complete timeline after >10 years, then it actually hasn't been 13 years since Dday. Each new discovery sets the BS's course of healing back to Day 0. So, in your mind, this process has been going on for over a decade, but for your husband, it's relatively recent. Therefore, it's understandable why he still doesn't believe you. It took over 10 years for you to come completely clean... he's probably worried that another shoe will drop 10 years from now.

BS is expecting something from me - and I do not know what. He tells me I do not do anything. The admit quilt, the empathy, and sympathy (all the to do as per the healing library) are not working - When I ask him what he expects of me, then he can not answer. (as he doesn't know himself)

You're not being very specific about what you have done, but just based on this description, it sounds like a lot of talking. What you need to realize is that your words mean absolutely nothing. I get that's hard, especially when you're telling the truth and getting shot down each time. But the only thing that will rebuild your husband's trust is consistent alignment between words and actions over time.

Most importantly, your husband is not going to have all the answers and the ones he has might not be the correct ones. But just being proactive and demonstrating your commitment to trying new things, whether they succeed or fail, is part of the process of expressing your commitment to the marriage and to his healing.

It just feels like he expects me to erase the past - if that was possible.

Any advise please

That ultimately may be what he wants and expects, unrealistic though it may be. If so, then you might need to do the kindest and most compassionate thing for him, which is to take the initiative, file for divorce, and give him as a clean and amicable a break as possible.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:29 PM, Wednesday, March 13th]

Be honest, be open and be consistent. Do not be defensive.

Have you read any books? ‘Not just friends’ by Glass and how to help your spouse heal from your infidelity are a good start.

I imagine what he wants is a magic wand and a Time Machine. It’s what I wanted.

I will pick up on something you said that would infuriate me - it suggests you need to do more work on you.

You say answering your husbands questions caused more issues. It didn’t and if my husband said that (he probably did say it) he would have had his arse handed to him. The choice you made to cheat was what caused the issue. The moment you crossed the boundary. Telling him the truth didn’t cause the issue, you doing it caused the issue. Can you see the difference?

That line may annoy your husband but he may not be able to articulate why it’s so annoying. Because he is traumatised, so it’s harder to think clearly.

Gottmans book ‘why marriages succeed or fail’ explains some poor communication/arguing techniques. You may find you are doing these. Again my husband did and it just pissed me right off. I call him out on these now. I don’t care what I did wrong in 2010 - you should have brought it up in 2010 however I am happy to discuss but definitely DO NOT bring it up when I’m talking about something you have done.

Write down your values and live by them daily. There’s no quick fix.

Why do you say you don’t deserve to ask questions? Of course you deserve to ask questions.

He does need to heal himself too. Just make sure you don’t make it harder for him. I realise I need to heal me, I am my priority, but that may mean the marriage survives or fails. I am now more important than my marriage.

Have you read and followed the advice in https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/? (Honest question, IDK if you've even seen it.)

Ragab

This is based on what you share being true.
The infidelity was 10 years ago. You haven’t cheated since. You have done what you think possible to convince him this is so.

Infidelity is not a life-sentence to a marriage.
It definitely marks a marriage and it’s effects will always be there, but both the WS and the BS can decide if they want to remain in a relationship controlled by infidelity or not. Frankly it sounds like your husband has decided to remain.
Ending infidelity, working at reconciliation from the affair and the affair alone is no guarantee for eternal marital happiness.
Even if you both did all the work the result eventually might be that one or both no longer want the marriage.

I think you two have reached that stage – the stage where you two decide if you want to be married or not. If what you share is true, and that you have been faithful for 10 years and done the work on yourself to realize why you cheated AND can convince yourself that its not something you would ever do again… then the issue might be that HE – the BS – isn’t doing his work in getting out of infidelity.

Ask yourself what you want out of marriage. Then make the demand that you two seek guidance. He can go with the goal of dealing with your infidelity, you can go with the goal of him realizing you have. The MC – if capable – can do the work of helping you both see what’s missing, and how best to proceed.

Just keep in mind that IF your husband still insists that you are cheating, aren’t rehabilitated or whatever… and you don’t agree… then possibly your future paths no longer run the same way.

Hey OP. Kudos for showing the courage to post. What is your BS doing to help himself? What supports does he have, both OL and IRL?

I'm going to guess that neither of you have received any counseling. I recommend that you start some counseling for yourself and ask him to do the same. If he won't go, you go anyway. Save couples counseling for later, after you've done some individual work.

I also think you should do some reading on codependency. Codependent No More or Facing Codependence are both good. No healthy person stays in limbo this long, and the "whore" comment is some martyr stuff, indicative of codependency. Start working on healing yourself and everything else will get a lot easier to figure out. It's okay to turn your focus on yourself since this isn't a new betrayal, and the timeline-DDay was a couple of years ago.

I believe that everything tends to fall in place when we get right with ourselves.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:32 PM, Wednesday, March 13th]

Like others have said it takes a lot of courage to ask in General. What sticks out to me is you are coming at your H with a defensive posture. Just be willing to talk open and honest without defensiveness.

13 years is awful long time, there are some wires crossed somewhere, his gut is unsettled. Are there unanswered questions? Did he suffer years of TT? You need to dig deep and make sure everything is on the table.

Hi! Fellow ws here. You have already received some fantastic advice. I agree with hellfire calling yourself a whore to even yourself is not productive and I want to dig in to what blue is saying here because what she wrote is dead on:

So my first bit of advice is to cut it out with the self deprecation. As you've already observed, all it does is piss your husband off. For example, instead of saying "I feel like I don't deserve to ask for help..." you could say, for example, "I'm afraid to ask for help because of my past actions and lies."

When I see someone calling themselves a whore or talking about how they don’t deserve things, I agree with blue you need to frame it differently.

However, that starts with framing it differently to yourself. You are full of shame. And when I realized that about myself I said l yeah I should damn well be full of shame for being such a piece of shit.

But I learned that being full of shame wasn’t serving me and it wasn’t helping my husband to feel I am a safe partner. Shame does not move you forward it keeps you stuck.

It also keeps you from being vulnerable with your spouse and it hinders having a connection with your husband. There is a great book about shame and vulnerability called "rising strong" by brene brown and it really helped me see how I needed to reach for feelings that were more empowering so I could take bigger emotional risks with my husband. I recommend that you read it.

I also want to echo Sacred’s suggestion of therapy. Likely the shame you carry isn’t just over your affair. It’s probably something that you carried and accrued since childhood. In order to start eradicating it, a therapist will help you go back and take it out from the roots.

Your shame takes up a lot of space. Without it, there will be more room for empathy, compassion, and finding a way through. It’s difficult to be resilient when you are beating yourself against the rocks to exhaustion.

Finding self compassion is a matter of realizing yes, I have done some really destructive things that created a lot of pain to me and my husband. I am moving away from that person who did those things and will make amends to the best of my ability. I am going to work on myself every day and become proud of who I am becoming.

Every relationship we have is a reflection of the one we have with ourselves. If we live ourselves there is a well there to live others big too. If we respect ourselves we will know how to respect others. If we have those two things we can begin to understand boundaries. And if we have boundaries we take on what is ours and allow others to take on theirs. If we practice that then we have resilience and grit. No grit, no pearl.

Invest in IC, read some books to help you gain some structure over where you are trying to go mentally. Try to be more mindful and intentional over your own healing. Pay attention to your self talk and remind yourself that if you wouldn’t talk to your best friend like that then don’t say it to yourself.

All is not lost for you. There can be a bright further in the horizon. If you do these things you may have a chance to save your marriage. And if not, you still will have a chance of having a beautiful, loving, connected relationship down the road.

Keep posting, and reaching. You can do this.

If he's been calling you a whore for the past 13 years, I don't think there is much chance for fixing this. This is your new normal.

You injured him. Full stop. You lied to him for another 3 years before giving him the whole truth causing further trauma, so it is understandable that he no longer trusts you. I have no idea whether you truly did the work that a WS is required to in order to heal, but at this point, I'm not sure anything you can do - other than leave - will change this. Trauma is real and it is not his fault, but our trauma does not give us a license to traumatize others. His healing his responsibility and it does not sound like he has any interest in it. It does not sound like he WANTS a healthy marriage with you.

It is normal for a traumatized person to lash out - I know I certainly did. But no one that truly WANTS to get to a better place thinks its okay to blame every single negative feeling they have for all of eternity on their spouse. We've all said things we regret from a place of anger, but most of us don't feel good about it when we do. We apologize when we cross lines. We understand that no matter what our spouse did, they are still people worthy of dignity and respect - otherwise we would not attempt to stay married to them. The fact that you had an affair does not give him license to speak to you abusively for all time. The fact that you don't think you deserve to ask for help is concerning to me. It sounds like he believes that you deserve to be punished for all of eternity - as a BS myself, I don't think that's true.

That last line is going to rub some newer BS here the wrong way. "Are you going to punish me forever?!," is a line too many of us got mere months after d-day when the trauma was fresh, while we were ACTIVELY trying our very hardest to heal. It's defensive bullshit that proves that the WS has no empathy for the BS, and that their negative feelings are merely an inconvenience. If you reacted that way even now when you H experienced a legitimate trigger, I'd say that you were being insensitive and remind you that the effects of trauma do not necessarily have an expiration date. But this is not that.

Thank you all for your contribution and honest feedback.
On D.day I asked my H for a divorce. He asked me if there was anybody else and I admitted immediately. He asked me if we had sex and I confirmed yes. At that time, he said that I must give him another chance but that I have to resign. I resigned with immediate effect and since then I have been working together with my husband (his own business). We are still working together.
I gave him the basics and answered most of his questions, truthfully. I told him the person, when it started, how offered, where it happened, how it all started etc. I just never wanted to give him the details. In my mind, at the time I thought I was protecting my husband (but I have since learned that I was protecting myself)
D. day was in 2011.
in 2014 we attempted marriage counseling but my husband's view is that he never asked to be in this position and it is my fault we are here. It is my fault (this includes the AP - and this is another issue as in his mind there were no consequences for him - he was not married and is currently married and immigrated to another country - H knows this as he saw on FB)
So he doesn't want to go for any counseling as he said he did nothing wrong and did not ask to be in this position and or feel the way he does.
H has access to all my emails, and phone records - we work together so we are 24/7 together. My husband says I am a whore - because of my actions - it is not self-pity where that statement came from. In his mind, a whore at least got something out of it. I lost my self-worth, self-respect, his respect, and the respect of my kids - as I told them the reason why we were fighting, crying and snot and tears all the time.
I never blamed him - I told him that I was at a bad place (due to work issues and also issues as a child) for him again, he said that he did not cause the issues to me as a child - why did I have to punish him with my actions and not my parents. Also, he doesn't understand the "escape / it was not real" - I again think it is something that I do not know exactly how to word to make him understand. So this again in a nutshell.
To answer random questions asked, I worked through the healing library. I do not think about the a, and this upset him because he admitted that there had not passed one single day or one hour for that matter where he didn't think about it. So, in general, our conversations will be something like " I was at a bad place at the time" and his response will be "I am at a bad place now"
We must see somebody to help us - response "Why didn't you see somebody to help you at the time"
How are we going to move past this - why didn't you think about the consequences at the time - go ask Ap for answers.
Sorry, it is not my intention to bad mouth H - I understand he is hurting and the whole purpose of this General shout-out for help, is for me to try and help him.

So if we take your post at face value, your marriage has been awful since Dday, your husband doesn't want counseling, and all your efforts thus far have failed.

Why do you want to stay married? Why do you want to continue raising your kids in the midst of this toxicity?

This post may hot BS wrong especially if they are newly betrayed. But there is some oneness on the BS to heal themselves. Just like a victim of rape or physical violence we are victims we have to do work to heal ourselves. That may look different for each of us but if he can't reach a place of acceptance then having a safe and healthy M isn't going to happen.

Yes, same question: why do you want this marriage?

I apologize I think I misunderstood your post before. I thought you were calling yourself a whore.

Look, I don’t think you can heal in this relationship if he is unwilling to move forward in his healing. It takes two people to move towards each other for reconciliation. And while I would have patience for a new bs to name call in a few bad moments, it is unacceptable to me to be married to someone who continues to call me names.

You do not owe him your life just because you cheated on him. I am curious what he was like before the affair? Is verbal abuse part of your marriage in its entirety or that part was a change since dday?

So in that way, I still recommend you look at IC and take most of my other suggestions too. Because it is obvious that if you are still in this place, then you likely are still missing the self love, self respect, self compassion, and other things you need to have to feel whole and to stand up for yourself.

It takes two people to reconcile, and you can’t make up for his part in that however hard you try.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:15 PM, Wednesday, March 13th]

Ragab

BH here. I skimmed through your old posts and see a lot of self-loathing and self-flagellation. I don't see how that helps you or your BH.

Based on your bio, 13 years is like half your marriage and like 30% of your life to date. It is too darn long to be in the misery of limbo.

I have a sincere question. Close your eyes and think about the 13 odd years since D-day. How many pleasant memories with your husband can you recall?

If you can't think of a few such moments, you need to ask yourself whether you want to stay in this marriage.

I understand he is hurting and the whole purpose of this General shout-out for help, is for me to try and help him.

Regardless of who hurt him, HE is responsible for his healing. You're responsible for yours. If it was early days, I would say that you'd need to do more to help him deal with the trauma, but it's been 13 years and he doesn't seem to be interested in doing much more than beating you down with it every day until the end of time. That's cruel. I assume your kids witness this.

You know that old saying that you have to put on your oxygen mask before you can help anyone else? Same applies here. You need to focus on healing yourself. I really hope that you make an appointment with an IC as soon as you can. My heart aches for you for being in this situation for so long.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 10:36 PM, Wednesday, March 13th]

Posting as a BH. I am blunt, but I am not attacking you, I am giving you my honest opinion.

You cheating on him was a deal breaker and you made it worse by holding it back to protect yourself for a decade. I spent 6 months of that hell, I can’t even imagine what a decade would feel like.

He calls you a whore because to him you acted like one. I want to emphasize I’m saying to him and I am not name calling. Men take the sexual aspect of an affair very personally. And let’s be honest, when it comes to relationships/sex it’s women who generally are the ones who accept it. That’s what is killing him. That you willingly submitted yourself to another man. At anytime you could have pulled the breaks but you didn’t. A lot of women don’t understand how men feel about that violation. Did you ever have sex with AP same day as your BH? Did you ever chose to be with AP and deny your BH sex because of it? That is a death sentence for most men and relationships. That’s why he wants revenge on your AP so much, because "stolen water is sweet" and AP took something from him that you willingly gave away.

No I can’t speak for all men of course, but I can honestly say it’s a safe bet that is what is going on.

You can’t repair that, ever. You can’t go back and not have sex with your AP. That will never go away.

You don’t deserve to be tortured for the rest of your life to stay in your marriage, but many WW (and yes again, I know we don’t generalize but we all have to admit women and men view sex differently) don’t fully understand or think about how severe the consequences of sex with AP is.

I don’t think he will ever get over it. No form of IC/MC will ever get that wound away. A lot of BS just can’t. Why he is still there, probably fear or kids, or the loss of $, or he does still deeply love you but can’t handle that you cheated. Those are the consequences.

You can’t make him better because you can’t give him the one thing he needs, which is for it to never have happened.

From here, you can continue to make yourself safe and offer love, empathy, and above all patience and he might be able to move on. He definitely needs to stop with name calling, but he probably won’t if it’s been going on this long.

Or you can accept that cheating killed the marriage, and make the next step better for you and him, and end it as friendly and fair as possible.

Posting as a BH. I am blunt, but I am not attacking you, I am giving you my honest opinion.

Just wow. You open with this, then not only attack, but are brutal about it. She came on here in a kind of unprotected forum exposing herself, and you just destroy her. She obviously knows she has fucked up, but is looking for help. My honest opinion is you over stepped big time here.

That said, OP, you are in a very tough situation. I see similarities between you and my EX. She desperately wanted to reconcile, but she would have had a better chance with a brick wall. For some BS’s the infidelity is just a deal breaker. You came to him and wanted a divorce, which I assume was to be with your AP, and confessed to sex with him. For him that woukd be a total rejection. I at least had to only deal with the sex, but as she was desperate to stay together, I at least felt like I was still important to her. He probably felt like the AP was a better man than him.

I agree that his verbal abuse after this much time is not right. Read my profile, I don’t think anyone was more abusive than I was, but that lasted a year, and frankly that was probably 6 months too long. Others may disagree, but I think any WS has to expect some name calling, but it has a time limit, and it isn’t over 10 years.

The hard fact is you may have to leave or at least issue an ultimatum that things need to change. My EX wasn’t strong enough to do that, and she probably should have. I think she didn’t as she knew I was looking for any reason to leave and knew if she did it was game over. But game over is a better way to live than what you are going through now.

Actions have consequences, and the consequence of your affair is what put you in this situation. He may never look at you the same way again. I didn’t. And no amount of her doing everything to change that was ever going to help.

You need to ask yourself are you in the marriage because it fulfill you, or is this the bed bath and beyond of you sticking around to fix something because you broke it.

This is a great example of how infidelity can just destroy a marriage.

A lot of women don’t understand how men feel about that violation.

Every betrayed wife understands.

Men don't have a monopoly on the pain that is felt when your spouse fucks someone else.