SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Marriage reconciliation score as of 2 days ago: 8/10
Marriage reconciliation score as of today: 2/10

I actually don't think I know who I married.

We've been married for 26 years, happily for the most part. Definitely best friends and good partners. Marriage was pretty easy for us.

8 months ago I found out. Then 5 months of trickle truths, gaslighting and DARVO.
Just friends > we did have a connection > I never had chemistry with you > yes we did sext and send photos but no touch > I actually fell in love with him but it was never physical > finding emails and notes that proved they had had sex dozens of times over an 18 month period > finding out she was still ruminating on old snapchats until 2 months ago.

They are no contact, I have access to her phone and location, and her behavior shows me she's actually recommitting.

Despite all the trickle truths and lies, we've been working on our communication, going to bible studies and small groups, we both have individual counselors, and we've been intentional towards each other. This has definitely helped, especially with being able to work my way out from spiraling, and Lord knows I needed that.

Here's why things went off a cliff for me and I'd love to get some feedback because my head is still spinning.

We had marriage counseling today (it's been a couple of months due to schedules) so last night we had a brief conversation about what we were going to talk about.

I asked my wife if all the things she complained about our marriage prior to the affair still felt true to her now that we're 8 months out.

Whenever I'd discover something about the affair, I'd get some version of 'we had no chemistry, we never had deep conversations, we were just roommates, we never kissed, we weren't connected...' This bothered me a lot initially then I realized that while some of it was certainly true, not all of it was. I took the parts I knew to be true and owned up to them, and started working on them. Work on yourself, so to speak.

So when she told me that they were all still true, I asked her specifically what she meant by no chemistry. She told me 'Imagine a lady at your job or somewhere that you think is pretty, smart, funny and fun to hang around but you have no desire to sleep with them'. That's how I felt about you. I've always felt that way about you, before we got married. You checked every other box so you were perfect except for that one thing and I just accepted that I might not ever have that feeling.

I believed for more than 25 years that my wife loved me and actually desired me. If I had known that she didn't desire me I would have never married her. Why would I marry someone that doesn't love me the way I love them?

She says that she does love me and she knows what she said hurts me but she didn't want to lie to me anymore. She wants to build chemistry with me and we should keep working towards that. HOW is that chemistry just going to be built if you didn't have it ever with me in 26 years? And if it doesn't happen, are you just going to be a sacrificial spouse and 'let' me have sex with you despite zero desire? Why would I ever want that. It's a complete turn off.

I don't know what to do. I want this to work out so bad but this revelation has broken my brain yet again. I'd love for someone to tell me this is fixable.

Fucking hell, man, I’m so sorry, what a thing to be told on top of everything. Nice of her to stop lying after only 26 years, I guess.

I have seen this recommended elsewhere so I’m passing it along: a book called the Married Man’s Sex Life Primer. People report getting results from it, for what that’s worth.

That's so hard to deal with because it's based on her internal psychology, past experiences, or specific arousal templates rather than your worth, appearance, or behavior. It is a subjective experience she brings to the relationship, not an objective failure on your part.

It's unlike couples who lose chemistry over time due to routine or resentment. This situation involves a fundamental absence of sexual desire from the beginning. Some experts note that while chemistry can sometimes develop if there is a baseline of attraction, it is extremely difficult to generate if the feeling was never present.

Is this chemistry thing something she's mentioned in the past, or only since the affair? It's possible she's retroactively re-writing the narrative to convince herself the marriage was dead to justify her affair.

I just don't know man, that's such a gut wrenching thing to hear. Maybe it's something you guys could try to generate, or hopefully rekindle if there was a spark and she's re-writing things, but it would take her really buying in and wanting to try.

Also, this sticks out to me.

Whenever I'd discover something about the affair, I'd get some version of 'we had no chemistry, we never had deep conversations, we were just roommates, we never kissed, we weren't connected...'

I'm not sure of the context, but this looks like pretty typical blame shifting and justifying to me. Is this pretty typical when you talk about it? Has she taken full accountability?

It’s quite possible she killed the chemistry YOU had.

So sorry for you.

IMO either you have chemistry or you don’t. It’s rather black & white for me.

Jeremy, this must be so hard to hear after 25y. I think that having a partner that desires you is something that most of us want very deeply and it was taken from you. Honestly, if she decided to be with you to have a comfy life with the good guy, she should have stayed faithful, keep her mouth shut and take it to the grave. I imagine that you feel incredibly lonely and rejected right now. No words.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 11:00 PM, Thursday, July 23rd]

She can pretty it up however she wants, but what she’s saying is "for our entire relationship I’ve never wanted sex from you."

Just get out man.

Devastating.

If chemistry hasn’t built already after 26 years of sex, I don’t see how it could ever do so now.

I’m so sorry.

After a quarter century with someone to be told I like everything about you, but there's just no chemistry? I cannot imagine the feeling nor can I comprehend how after feeling this way for so many years she thinks it can be built. Usually relationships start with a physical attraction and then mental and the chemistry builds and a relationship grows, but even with a physical attraction and mental attraction if there's no chemistry the relationship just doesn't work

That is an incredibly rough spot to wonder, is it possible to build chemistry after so long?

I wish I had some words of wisdom or comfort but I'm sorry I don't. Personally I would be leaning towards finding someone else that chemistry can be built with

A fundamental problem with the way your WW is approaching this situation is that she wants to make it your responsibility to fix it. She wants you to work on building the chemistry. I'd ask why. Why would she marry and spend 25 yrs with someone she feels she has no chemistry? Why didn't she pursue that connection if it's important to her? Why is she not approaching that problem by looking at herself?

I'm sure this feels brutal and heartbreaking to you. But from the outside, it really sounds like a "her" problem and not a failing on your part. If there is a Madonna-Whore complex in men, a similar complex must exist in women. Maybe she needs to look into that in therapy. Or maybe this simply serves as a convenient excuse for her not to take accountability and do the difficult work of looking inward.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 2:02 PM, Friday, July 24th]

I am so sorry. That is one of the hardest things said to a spouse that I have ever heard. You asked if anyone can say if this is fixable. Speaking for myself, I would not stay with a partner who did not desire me. Sexual desire is a main pillar in a marriage. But keep in mind that Waywards lie. You have been married for 26 years and you never noticed the lack of physical attraction? It is possible that your WW is making this up as a way to justify her betrayal. Or she might also be trying to knock you down a peg, kind of a sick way to get validated. Maybe she noticed your previous attempts at improving your performance in the marriage and likes the pick me routine. Maybe she is cueing the pick me music and is anticipating your great efforts to maximize your "chemistry." To the extent that she is limping toward owning her betrayal of you, I guess it could be fixable. But do you see yourself ever being able to live with this, even if she eventually is fully remorseful? You know all those boxes you checked? They are still on full display and there are lots of women who are looking for men in your age bracket who have good careers and can offer cheerful companionship and a reciprocally robust sex life. Best wishes.

A big part of my decision to R was my W's 'yes' to a question about desiring me. Another big part is that I still lusted for her. I definitely can understand that your W's admission is a giant obstacle to R.

But R is about the future much more than the past. Suppose, for a moment, that your WS realizes she desires you above every other potential sexual partner she's ever met. Suppose, for a moment, that she just hasn't realized that the chemistry has existed all along but now does realize it.

I always thought I was more in love with my W than she was with me. It was actually ow who first said that W was as hooked on me in her way as I was hooked on W in mine. Until then, neither of us realized that, but ow was right, but ow was right. As a CSA survivor, my W feared sex, so she feared chemistry.

Maybe realizing the chemistry has been there all along would be enough for you. If so, problem solved. Maybe it would definitely not be enough for you. If so, problem solved.

You just received some information that is an important element in your decision, but you're the only one who can evaluate it and you're not crazy. You've got a bunch of options now, many of which can lead to a good life.

Don't get me wrong. Like you, if I had thought my W2b didn't desire me to some extent, I wouldn't have married her. (She did tell me long before M that her mom advised her not marry unless she did feel desire.) If she didn't desire me after d-day, I think I would have ended R - but I don't know, because she did show desire. So I think pretty much all of us would support your calling an end to your R.

OTOH, you know your sitch better than anyone else does. If you decide to take time to consider this and gather more info, I would hope pretty much all of us would support that decision.

*****

Remember:

SI's rule of thumb is that it takes 2-5 years to recover. At 8 months out, you're just beginning. It's very normal for a BS to change their mind on dime after dime as time reveals more and more of what is really coing on in one's life. At any time, something you never expected can appear that makes you think R is exactly what you want. None of us can predict the future.

But either way, you can heal. Either way you can lead a good life.

Hi everyone, thank you for all of your notes. Of course I am still in a heavy fog, trying to process everything.

She says that this is how she FELT, not how she feels now. She feels like we're starting to develop chemistry, now that we're communicating better and having deeper conversations.

Is this chemistry thing something she's mentioned in the past, or only since the affair? It's possible she's retroactively re-writing the narrative to convince herself the marriage was dead to justify her affair.

Pogre, I think you're on to something. She NEVER mentioned a lack of chemistry or connection in our marriage the entire time we were married. It only happened AFTER she had the affair. She had even told me when I found out that she didn't realize she could feel that way towards someone and now she doesn't know whether she can live without it. (those were early days when she was still deep in affair fog, but I think some of that is lingering)

I'm trying not to take it to heart just yet, because it doesn't feel real.
I'm not giving up on God. He never fails, but boy I sure could use His help.

Jeremy,

Your WWs admission, while horrible. will allow You to make an informed decision as You now have the truth.

More men than You suspect are in Your shoes, but they never tell You because of the shame it carries.

Few of those men even know how their wives/WWs feel about them in an honest way.

I believe this is also the case with my WW, before we got married she had an affair with OM1. She warned me that she felt nothing for me and thought she never would again, I went through with the wedding thinking that my love care and support could win her over.

Much later I found out she fantasized about other people when we had sex and I suspect given her guilt ridden personality that very fact increased the shut off of desire for me. So in a sense she never really had sex with me.

Losing so many years of what could have been good sex in quantity, quality and variety is difficult to bear and those thoughts never leave me completely.

It also makes some regret for the women I've turned down or advised to seek marriage counseling etc that I could have had.

She NEVER mentioned a lack of chemistry or connection in our marriage the entire time we were married. It only happened AFTER she had the affair. She had even told me when I found out that she didn't realize she could feel that way towards someone and now she doesn't know whether she can live without it. (those were early days when she was still deep in affair fog, but I think some of that is lingering)

That's an interesting thing to say. It sounds like a limerence effect.

Years ago, when I was trying to understand affairs, I read on a subreddit called /r/adultery or something like that. It was for people actively in affairs discussing their feelings and situations. There was something one man said that stuck with me. Several agreed. He said he loved his wife. She was his best friend and a great wife and mother. But if she ever found out about his affairs, he'd divorce her. He would never give up that intense feeling of meeting and connecting with new women. He would not live without it. Of course, it's a moving target. It doesn't last. His affairs were a year or less in length. He's constantly pursuing to chase the high.

It is a positive thing that your WW is being honest with you.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 4:25 PM, Friday, July 24th]

Jeremy,

I would add that it makes the years I lost feel like theft or fraud.

Do You feel the OM got all that You lost?

What did You do about the OM confront, expose etc?