SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

RealityBlows "It can interfere with communication, transparency, observance of boundaries, disclosure. It can give tacit approval to stray from the marriage ("I slept with him while we were separated, so it’s not really cheating"). It can provide opportunity to continue or follow through with cheating behaviors. It can interfere with progress towards R or D and mire you in limbo. It can interfere with trust building."

I have the same trepidation to it, as we are amicable. I see it as a further attempt to continue with the affair. I've come to terms with the fact that if that is what she is going to do, then there isn't a whole F of a lot that I can do. She knows that would be an instant move to Divorce. Granted she is very wise to hiding things now due to my stupidity of "I know you did this, because of this/because i saw this here...."

She will have to make her decisions and live with them. Although she is all over the map, I'm not even sure it will happen as she will then have to explain to her parents what is going on.
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TRDD - Im am only doing a bit better because of all the good people on here. this has been the greatest support outlet that i could have imagined. The advice from those who have been there is priceless.

I have been very candid with her regarding the age gap and reality of this guy or such guys. I think she gets it but continues to blame shift and say it wasnt about "him" per-se but the lack of what I was giving her (attention, emotion, etc). She claims it wasnt "in love" feelings but just that she felt noticed. The dopamine dump from a younger guy hitting on her is still hanging on I think.

Im still on the fence of talking to her sister. I feel like i might need to see some sort of remorse first. My reasoning being, if this is going to Divorce in short order, I'd rather not aggravate a currently amicable situation where we would likely be able to sort it out through mediation.

I've contacted a couple lawyers and waiting for phone consults.
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TRUSTEDG - "She doesn't think her behavior is wrong, she believes she is not guilty of anything. That gets you nowhere. She is not remotely ready for reconciliation.

Your wife has issues but you can't help her, she has to work thru this on her own. She may need more than a counselor. It may take a lot of time, and may never help."

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think she wants someone to validate/endorse her current state of mind and tell her to follow it. Who-ever doesn't give that will be discarded just as I have been and my kids to a certain extent.

Did you recognize how quickly her tune changed when you took the initiative of divorce talks?
This is what we mean when we tell people to take the lead of their own life. When you come from a position of strength, you, more likely than not will get what you want and need. To put it bluntly, tell her how it is and what’s going to happen. Your self respect and dignity demands it. If she all of a sudden now wants to R, tell her exactly what she’s going to have to do. Any deviation is a giant step to divorce.

Also, tell who needs to be told. Affairs thrive in the dark. Shining a light on them ruins it.

Im still on the fence of talking to her sister…My reasoning being, if this is going to Divorce in short order, I'd rather not aggravate a currently amicable situation where we would likely be able to sort it out through mediation.

Very wise. I totally agree, don’t unnecessarily antagonize if divorce is on the horizon. Prepare the field for an amicable divorce and…coparenting. Keeping the divorce civil will save you money, time and sanctity, and it’s good for the kids.

You can, in a dignified way, protect your version of events, control the narrative, and you will have opportunities to do that. You can effectively shed light on the affair without excessively antagonizing her. It takes finesse and tact. Playing PR games requires deft execution. Using the family to help break her out of the fog, put pressure on her, can be effective, but it can also get messy, can be difficult to control, can backfire, and have mixed results. Tread carefully. Be sure you don’t personify the bitter, abusive, crazy, controlling, paranoid, jealous, overreacting husband character that she may have pretextually created in advance.

I would conduct myself with QE2 level grace, poise and dignity in stark contrast with her irrational actions to date. That’s how you control a narrative, protect your image, and credibility.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 2:08 AM, Saturday, November 30th]

REALITYBLOWS that is exactly my current thinking....gotta be a bit tactical about this going forward, almost like a chess match. If it ends up at the Divorce stage, she will have to answer to her family about it. I've saved found messages, emails, photos etc that can make their way forward, if necessary, once I know that the kids and I are gonna be ok. I dont need her emptying accounts etc.

Like you say time, money and sanity

OHITSYOU

Her tune did change....maybe not to the extent I had hoped but it certainly got her thinking. For the first time since DDay she had tears in her eyes and was saying how she doesnt want to lose what we have. I just told her you cant do that and have this and if you do that the only next logical step is divorce.

She didnt come straight out and say she wanted to work on R but did say that she may now be open to Couples Counselling, this was another deal breaker for me if she refused to go that route. Had to explain to her that we each have our sides and each IC is gonna tend to side with whomever is sitting across from them. Together we can get into the middle of the truth, not just her truth and not just mine.

and i did make sure to state that even if we did that it doesnt mean that Divorce may still not be the solution.

I cannot express enough gratitude to everyone on this forum. Reading their stories, the advice provided to them, the advice and support provided to me has been better than I could have imagined to get my head semi back on straight. thank you

Update....

Well I had a gut feeling that they were still talking/texting. This morning I texted the OM and asked him why he was still talking with my wife. He stated that he last was texting with her yesterday (while i was at work) and she kept reaching out to him and that it was short friendly chat, "how are you doing" sort of thing. He stated that he wanted nothing to do with this any more and was just being nice when she would reach out to him but wants no part of it. He was adamant that she was initiating contact.

I asked her if she was still talking with him...."no" but i could tell she was lying. I asked her what would she say if I told her that I knew she was still texting with him? This is when she started getting angry and accusing me of lying to her and that i didnt know that because it wasnt happening. I said to her that when she feels like she wants to come clean to come talk to me. She followed me to the door as i was leaving and was quite interested in knowing what i know. I didnt relent and said this is your time to come clean. I left to take our kids to their sporting events. She texted me calling me a liar a little later. I continued to text with the OM and he advised me that he had blocked her phone and that if she managed to reach him again he would let me know.

When I got home, she was out. We had previously booked a family beach vacation, leaving in about a week or so from now. She texted me that she was going with the kids only now and to "enjoy being at home alone".

When she got home she was visibly angry and for the first time since DDay initiated conversation about this all. She admitted that she had texted him and had every day except for 1 since Dday. she was adamant it was "only friends" type talk. She demanded to know how i knew. I told her that I had been talking with the OM and he told me. This angered her and she accused me of lying to her earlier by not telling her. I expressed to her that I had concerns regarding her mental health as prior to this she had extreme disdain for liars and cheaters. She stated that maybe she needed space and time to figure her thoughts out of whether she wanted to work on things or not. She said that maybe we should separate while she found out how she felt. I said to her that if that is the route we are going to take, we will go together to a lawyer or mediator and get things legally on paper as Im not sitting around being Plan B while she decides if she wants me or not. I let her read the text conversation with the OM and she was not happy, presumably because he said he was done and wanted nothing to do with the situation anymore. The conversation ended well and I thanked her for initiating it.

Well.....only a few hours later while i was at work, the seething texts started coming in. She began saying she thought our talk was good but she is pondering whether she should "settle". She accused me of grasping at straws by telling the OM that if their affair continued while we were together that I would contact our HR dept, and accused me of "bullying" her into staying by saying not to talk to him or else we are done.

Is it normal behavior for the WS to get angry like this after it appears their affair may actually be over? Im having a hard time understanding whats going on.

Hi Martyt. Again so sorry you are in this mess. I am not sure about normal honestly, but can say for certain that she is not remorseful or broken about what she is doing. The betrayal of you heart is just not hitting her yet. The one thing I did want to mention is this vacation. Sounds like she is using it to maintain some type of control. My opinion, you really may just want to consider canceling the whole thing for everyone...really. Just a thought. I am sure others with much more knowledge will give you an explanation of her actions at this point. Lord strengthen you.

Unfortunately from what you are saying, you are still doing a form of a 'pick me ' dance.

Look up the'180' and start using it to allow you space to think and to give you emotional distance to make good choices.

Remember, your primary goal is to get out of infidelity.

Start making firm steps to accomplish that.

"

Is it normal behavior for the WS to get angry like this after it appears their affair may actually be over? Im having a hard time understanding whats going on."

In my case it was.
MyfWW was extremely mad at me.
Talk about crazy, she said she was going to get tested for std's becaue she was sure I'd given her something. Problem was we hadn't been intimate in over four months, the length of her A.

In many cases when you confront a liar, they attack YOU as the person who is harming them!😡😡

Think of your wife’s affair as an addiction. Then you can start to understand the behavior. You are, in effect taking away her drug, her high, her "feel good" moment(s).

So she reacts out of anger and then attacks you. Her mindset is "how dare you interfere with my happiness blah blah blah". See often the cheaters excuse their behavior with the "I deserve to be happy" lie they tell themselves. Cheaters have to justify their behavior to lie and cheat so the betrayed spouse is "the bad guy" who is standing in their way of their happiness.

My H treated me pretty poorly during his affair. He had the mindset I was stopping him from being with the OW and "being happy". Funny how at dday2 when I told him I was D him and he was free to be with the OW he was suddenly no longer interested.

Don’t be a plan B for anyone. IMO the moment my H told me "he needed time to decide" what he wanted, I should have walked out the door. It took me 6 months to get the courage (and plan B in place) to do it. But when I did it, it was the best thing I had done.

He most all his power in the marriage and I stopped being a doormat and letting him "have time to decide". I decided for him.

Martyt, I'm so sorry you are here.

One thing i would advise, just from experience, stop giving up your resources to her.

When she asked how you were getting your info, you should've been silent.

This isn't a game you're playing. In your roll, at the moment, you're in survival mode.

I don't, as others have stated, recommend marriage counseling.

At this point, even though it should be up to you, y'all aren't ready for that.

Find some friends to confide in.

Just like you, when i went through this, i was working shift work.

I had people coming out of the woodwork who had gone through the same situation. It was extremely helpful.

Have you contacted his gf (girlfriend) yet?

Why are you trusting anything the OM is telling you?

He's a part of the problem.

Hey Bigger, thank you! Can you explain what you mean by a goal right should be to buy time? I’m confused by that.

At the time of me posting that advice it seemed – based on what you shared – that your wife was heading towards physically meeting the OM irrespective of your permission or not. That if you carried on along the path you were on then, that she would simply tell you (or not...) that she had met OM, they spent the night at the Love-O-Mat-Motel and that she still wasn’t sure what she wanted.
My suggestion was to stop that – buy time – so that you could possibly start at either reconciling your marriage (ending the affair) or getting a firmer acceptance on this marriage being over.

I think that if you were on the fence BEORE she took the next step of an actual physical encounter, then that encounter would have shoved you off the fence. I don’t condone fence-hanging for long, but it’s often easier when WE – the betrayed spouse – gets to chose which side you get off to, and control the climb down.

Her anger is normal behavior for unremorseful WSes.

It's difficult to let a relationship based on love go, but it's past time for you to prepare yourself to dump her.

You're the prize. She is a cheater who shows no remorse.

I urge you to start preparing yourself for a split. You're lovable, loving, and capable, and she doesn't appreciate you. Get your ducks in a row. Set up a go-bag in case you need to leave in a hurry. Make sure you have access to funds and items that are important to you. If your location allows a single person to OK recording conversations, start recording conversations; if the consent of all parties is necessary, recording is probably a bad idea. Seek counsel from an attorney on this and on your and her rights and responsibilities.

Your WS may see the error of her ways, but preparing for her to stay on her current path - killing 2 relationships - is wise.

I'm not telling you to end this. I'm just telling you to prepare.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:51 PM, Sunday, December 1st]

Martyt,

Again I feel the need to comment on your story due to the similarities....

My wife was downright awful to me for a lengthy amount of time when I spoiled her "fun". If yours is similar (and it sounds like she is), remember this is not the woman you have loved for years. She ha been lulled into deeply believing something that is objectively not true (that there is someone that might be better than your wonderful self). What she does next has such wide reaching implications on the rest of her life, but she is blinded by this alternative reality.

I also didn't want to be the one to pull the plug. I didn't want any of this to happen, so why should my children's lives being destroyed be down to my decision? This is why when it came to it, I made it clear that separating so she could go and have her fun wouldn't see me having her crawl back in a few months. It would be her fault the family had fallen apart, that she would see the children half the time, etc etc.

As always there is a lot more to the story than this summary but it sounds like you have found strength hopefully before things have got too far physically (note I am not downplaying at all the impact the EA will have had on you).

Sending you further strength in whatever comes next.

Is it normal behavior for the WS to get angry like this after it appears their affair may actually be over? Im having a hard time understanding whats going on.

Lots of possible interpretations. Two jump out.

First, up until recently she was the Apple in two guy’s eyes. Now she is in none. Hero to zero. That is a hard comedown.

Second, up until recently she was in total control, the master of her universe. Now she is at the end of someone else’s whip who is deciding her future (you). Again…comedown. As you take control, she loses it.

I saw both of these in my wife.

Martyt, check in with us.

Hi All. Things are moving along on this end. I went to see a therapist who specializes in infidelity amongst other things. She was great and asked to have my wife come along next time. My wife agreed to come. Hopeful that she will get out of her fog but not naive enough to think that she may only be coming as a means of appeasing me. So whether the session is relationship positive or parting positive, it’ll be a step forward. We had to dip into some savings for house Reno’s. I said it’s gonna have to be 50/50 to cover the costs. She commented that was a kick in the face of reality for her. Again it’s kind of flabbergasting that she hadn’t even thought of that. WS truly live in a fantasy.

Seeing the infidelity therapist 2 days prior to our vacation will be good. Then we can get away from the regular world for a week and set both our minds straighter due to no outside influences.

Her morally troubled girlfriend is trying to get a single friend to go party with and that is influencing my wife in a significant fashion.

Well we had a big talk tonight. She is done. Splitting after Christmas. It sucks that no attempts were made on her behalf but it takes two to want to work on it. She claims and I beleive her that it isn’t due to the OM as she was over and done with that. She mentioned that she had hoped to get caught as she was hoping that would precipitate the end of our relationship.

She wants to remain amicable and for the kids I agree. Other than the EA I would have held no ill feelings towards her. I still love her aside from what she has done and doing.

She wants me to have the kids and the dog at our house so that their lives continue with stability and what they know. I told her that I don’t know if I’d be able to afford it on my own and she said that whatever she had to do to make that work she would. I brought pensions, mine is larger than hers, but her investment portfolio is significantly larger than mine so she said she had no interest in touching my pension. I could retire in 1.5 years at the current rate.

The kids would stay with me so that they would continue going to the same school, same areas friends, activities etc. she jokingly commented prior to me knowing about her EA that I could keep the kids and the house and I jokingly said back "sure I’d do that" I’m guessing that’s when she knew she was done

I’m gonna have to remain hopeful that her mind stays that way.

She has obviously been out of this for a while now. And she has always been good at the discarding of people. Happens to me this time.

She's done because she got an ultimatum, ditch the guy who keeps calling me, then we can get together guilt free.

You played the pick me game. She chose him.

She chose something, not sure it’s him, but chose wanting to find what she wants. That’s no longer me.

I’m ok with that, I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with me.

Also if she remains serious that I get the kids, house and dog, of which I took 90% care of all before, I’m more than ok with that. She says she is not interested in child/spousal support. As they would be with me anyway. I get that that is what she is saying but this time and could change significantly.

If this is how things play out, I’ll take it as a win. I get the most important things in my life being my kids, the house and a relatively minor financial hit for her part of the equity in the house

I think she may quickly realize being single isn’t what she remembered in her mind being

Maryt

We that have been here for some time think we can see behavioral patterns. I think we do, and I think I see one in you and your last post.

It’s the fantasy-divorce. The "we will be friends through this all and you can have everything and everyone will be happy and we can go to the park on Saturdays" sort-of fantasy.

I have never advocated making a divorce harder than it needs to be. I am NOT advocating adversity. However... an amicable divorce... that’s about as "nice" as the medical staff wearing various pastel-colored surgical before putting you under for surgery. Makes things a bit nicer, but you are still going to get cut...

The reality in most divorces is that there are issues that cause resentment. Divorce is a mathematical enigma where somehow having half of half of what you have now seems less. A sign of a fair divorce is when both are mildly unhappy with their share. Reality is that other than the kids the former partners move on. You won’t be having her and OM over for dinner and as the kids grow your need and want to see her will disappear.
I definitely want you to have an amicable-as-possible divorce and 100% want you to be the best coparents.

If your wife wants a divorce... give it to her. Only do so factually.
Like... go online now and see what the process is like in Canada. What’s it like in your province? What rules apply, what needs to be dealt with and so on. How do you file? How do you make 100% sure that whatever agreement you two might reach is a) at least what you are entitled to and b) legally binding.
Like... let’s imagine your pension... She might tell you she doesn’t want her share. Might even state so in an email or whatever. But 3 years from now when you start pulling a pension... maybe because the right documents weren’t filed and notarized, the correct box checked in "the system"... she get’s her share. Or the mortgage she promised to pay for the house – a couple of years from now some somber guys are knocking with a legal notice for eviction. Or four years from now when you get a call for the joint credit-card she hasn’t paid off...
Not saying any of this will happen, but I would prefer being sure none of this CAN happen.

Even if you two can arrange everything without separate attorneys then hire one to go over and finalize whatever documents you need to make this official. That attorney – for example – will know what to do to ensure the house is yours, the pension is untouched and all that.

I’m also going to encourage you to talk actively about the divorce. Like ask her if she’s started to make living arrangements for after Christmas.
Tell stakeholders (friends, family...) that you are divorcing. You will be asked why; be honest "my wife had an affair and she isn’t really willing to do what’s needed for us to fix our marriage".
Stop ALL plans for the future. The only long-term plan you make with her now is whats for Christmas dinner.

Make the affair reality. I know it’s not what you hoped for, but you gave your wife your conditions and she chose this instead of them. It’s not what you want – but it’s both what you have been offered AND based on all things – what you NEED.

One final tip: Don’t be glum. Walk around the house whistling and be chipper. It will drive her crazy because she expects all the drama. If asked – tell her "this might not be what I hoped for, but divorce will at least get me out of infidelity".