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How long did you try for? And what was it that made you decide to separate in the end?

I keep saying I want to R but I feel like my brain is rejecting that idea and I keep slipping into depressive phases where I think that’s not possible and I’ll never get over it.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:06 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

When I realized he'd never be a safe partner.

It was about 18 months. Around a year, I could see he wasn't doing the work, but said his IC said MC would be ok.

In MC, he confessed to basically sexually assaulting somebody (his niece) and I knew he'd never be a safe partner.I

I filed for D the week before our 34th anniversary. I've been so much happier and content are D than I have been in forever.

Nine years.

I wanted to believe.

When I realized he could never be; Then....Then I had decided to stay until the kids were out of the house.

Eventually, the lightbulb moment came of "that" was the example I was showing of a M to my children. They did not know what was going on and we never fought. BUT kids can pick up vibes, etc.

Final was the Dr Phil realization of a kid rather being from a broken home, then being raised in one.

I should have done it WAY sooner but we each have to do what is right for us.

leafields - I'm so sorry for your experience, but so glad you're happier now!

Evenkeel - 9 years, wow! I'm almost nine months from DDay. I wanted to have decided by now. One day I think I've decided, then a day or two later it's like I have a physical reaction to my decisions and I'm back on the fence again. One of my friends told me she had a moment in her marriage that was nothing big really but it flicked a switch and she just said 'I can't do this anymore' and she ended it. I feel like if I was going to have that moment, I would have it by now.

My partner said to me this morning 'I can't say anything without offending you lately' and he's right. I'm so snappy. And he's said that with me holding most of it in. Cruel, harsh comments are constantly on the tip of my tongue. I'm starting to feel like nothing he can do will ever be enough (not that he's doing everything I want him to do but most of it). I'm certain if we didn't have kids, the relationship would have been over immediately on DDay.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 8:47 AM, Sunday, December 29th]

[This message edited by user4578 at 8:06 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

Not trying to thread-jack, but giving you my context to tell you you're not alone.

My Dday will be 3 years ago this coming December. I am one of those, "if not for the kids... (and finances)".

We're in R only in the sense that my (m 54) WW (f 49) of nearly 25 years pulled her head out of her limerence a** relatively quickly, has demonstrated genuine remorse (I believe that), shut it all down (NC, etc.), we engage in intimacy, she does little things to convince me she's "all-in" and I don't explode at her in anger anymore.

So she thinks we're "doing well".

However, she adamantly refuses to do real work on herself (any kind of counseling) and at times still demonstrates a kind of "tone-deafness" to the damage she's done. So for the kids and our financial situation, I have accepted what we are now. And for me I do love her, but I don't see it ever being the same as before without her doing the real work.

So I've just decided to accept this until my youngest is in college (3 more years). Then I'm 75%-80% sure I will pull the plug. I am holding onto the right to pull the plug sooner and that 20%-25% possibility that she could do what is needed to keep me in the relationship.

I know a lot of people will say it's a bad way to present a marriage to your kids, but you know what, everyone's situation is different. I've weighed-up the potential consequences of my kids live's being up-ended by having to sell our home (neither of use could afford it on our own) and all the other disruption a divorce would entail at this point in their lives against what they may take-away from my decision to stay in terms of a healthy relationship and I've decided to stay for now.

There are no 'best options' in these situations in my opinion, just 'least worst options'. And this is my least worst option for what it's worth.

[This message edited by dontlookbackinanger at 6:59 PM, Friday, November 8th]

Thanks for your reply dontlookbackinanger.

Sorry you’re going through this too.

I really felt your whole situation there - I call it ‘surface level work’ that my WS is doing, which he absolutely hates. All the bigger work has been rejected or agreed to but… I’m still waiting for that stuff to happen. I don’t think he wants to. He keeps saying he gets it but he really, really doesn’t and we butt heads over that a lot.

I believe I would be fine on my own, I can manage financially, I think I’d be a better parent and more present, I’m a bit worn down by the relationship and think there would be a kind of relief getting out of it and having some peace in my life, not to say I wouldn’t be sad about it because I would. I don’t believe he would be okay at first and I would worry about his wellbeing, as well as the fact that I just don’t want to be without my kids 50% of the time. And I also wouldn’t be willing to fight him on that because it’s not fair on him or the kids, he’s a good dad.

Some days things are fine and I think we’ll be okay. Most days I’m just sad and the anger keeps coming still in waves. Maybe that will settle, I don’t know.

I had convinced myself I could hang on until the kids were going to college/university, but that’s nine years away for the youngest. Like your wife, my partner thinks we’re okay.

I just can’t wrap my head around that he did this to me. Sometimes I feel like I feel more guilty about little things I do or say than he does about what he did.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 8:47 AM, Sunday, December 29th]

[This message edited by user4578 at 8:06 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

R worked for us, so I didn't D, but I'll chime in anyway.

It takes some of us longer than others to make the D/R decision. You seem to say you spontaneously change direction. IMO, that's just a sign that you're not ready to decide.

The question is: what are you waiting for?

You describe a WS who doesn't seem to be a good candidate for R? Do I read you right? If I do, do you think your H will become a good candidate?

My partner is a complex character, to say the least, and I don’t know how to describe in words here really, but I guess I see potential, for who he would be if he would actually acknowledge his unresolved traumas and issues that make him try to self sabotage and implode his whole life every now and then. He has a lot of very good qualities, but the bad qualities have me on edge, wondering what it’ll be next and when.

I don’t know what I’m waiting for if I’m honest. For the kids to get older or for him to realise what he’s done and get on his knees and beg for forgiveness and do the real work? I honestly don’t know. Maybe I’m waiting for it to happen again so I can say I tried and he ruined it so he has to go.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 8:48 AM, Sunday, December 29th]

[This message edited by user4578 at 8:06 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

Wow user4578- your situation is so similar to mine it's eerie.

When I busted my WW, in her complete f'd up hazy state, she explicitly said, "don't expect me to beg you to stay" coupled with the occasional, "you have every right to leave me, I would understand". Really?! Of course I have that f’ing right! When I told her I had talked to two divorce attorneys and a mediator, it was a REAL shock to her. I think the reality that I was willing to do that shook her out of her state. But then I didn’t follow through and she kind of settled back into her resistance to really do any work.

These things really strip people down to who they really are and yank the rose colored glasses off your face. You start looking back at your life together and that's when I realized, she’s NEVER made any of our major life decisions. It was always on me. So I recognized what she was doing was almost the stereotypical "exit affair/s". She was unhappy with her life and our relationship so rather than being honest with me and talking about it, she made some truly horrible decisions and I honestly believe she was thinking… "right, I f’d-up so much, he will certainly make the decision to end our marriage". I actually said to her on a couple occasions that sometimes I think she’s just waiting for me to make that decision and it would actually be a bit of a relief to her if/when I did.

Like yours, mine hates having to do any more 'work'. She feels she's done what is necessary so let's just move on (rug sweeping of course). Like you, I’m kind of getting worn down by the relationship and questioning what I’m waiting for, but then come back to what I said previously… I’ve made this decision (for better or worse) not to blow-up our kids’ life and our finances that would jeopardize our lifestyle. Just typing that sounds so dumb, but it is what it is right now, and I also don’t want to be seeing my kids 50% of the time.

And like you, some days are fine, I’m pre-occupied enough that thoughts of the whole thing don’t surface, but then they do and the anger and hurt start simmering just below the surface again. And I do believe I’d be a better, more present parent… and less angry, or at least not having to expend energy to keep that in check.

Mine is also complex it seems, or more complex than I knew. Just a few months ago in a rather heated conversation where I was pressing her on had she really done any self-reflection and how she could possibly have made these decisions (always trying to understand the "why?"), she broke-down and told me she had been molested and sexually abused as a young teen. I was just shocked into silence. And then I felt horrible. So it’s that weird feeling of guilt about things I’ve done/am doing.

She clearly had never dealt with the trauma and then so many pieces fell into place. Not that I’m letting her use it as an excuse, but it was the stereotypical unresolved trauma manifesting itself.

Still very mixed about it… how can you be with someone for 25 years and not trust them enough to share that with them. But in talking a bit more about it with her, it was clear, she viewed her trauma as HER trauma and burden to bear… she felt so let down by people close to her that she feels no one can be trusted to help her. I told her my view is that part of being in a marriage (or similar committed relationship) is that "your baggage" is "my baggage" too. We should be willing to help each other carry that stuff and deal with it. But it’s not how she thinks.
And finally, exactly like you, in the dark corner of my mind, there’s a perverted piece that hopes I catch her again or find-out she wasn’t 100% truthful (I’m sure she hasn’t been) so that I can say "f--- it! I tried". There would be a measure of relief on my side as well if I’m being honest.

Alright, this is nearly a thread jack, but again my point is that, the situation you find yourself in is not unique (sadly) so at least take a bit of comfort there are those of us here who completely understand and can empathize with you. It’s just a big s—t sandwich.

About a month after DDay, I decided to end the relationship and he moved in with his mother. I felt a strong sense of relief in a way that I no longer had to worry about what he was doing and I felt at peace with my decision, that it was for the best. I felt I had put so much into our relationship and he had let me down again, on a much larger scale than ever before and that I could never forgive him. I literally felt like my body was vibrating with rage and couldn’t stand to be around him at the time. After two weeks he came back. The kids struggled with the living arrangements and my WS was very low, kept telling me how sorry he was, how much he missed me, etc and that he was desperate to come home and try to fix it. I felt like, even though I was okay, nobody else was and I struggled with everybody else struggling so I let him come back and said we would try.

I feel like I’ve been let down many times by his behaviour since then, but he’s trying again now. I guess he had to realise some of these things himself without me telling him. I yo-yo between staying for the kids and ‘maybe it’ll be okay one day’, and being embarrassed that I’m still here and haven’t stuck up for myself yet again. I can have a great few days, and then the depression comes back.

I feel like maybe I should have stuck to my guns earlier on, and now it feels like it’s maybe too late to leave, that doing that now would blow everything up again in such a big way that I don’t have the energy for it. I don’t believe he wants to leave, he had the opportunity and kept fighting against it.

Isn’t it bizarre that their infidelity has caused so much trauma and yet here we are sometimes wishing they would do it again so we could say enough is enough, I’m done.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 8:48 AM, Sunday, December 29th]

[This message edited by user4578 at 8:07 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

Isn’t it bizarre that their infidelity has caused so much trauma and yet here we are sometimes wishing they would do it again so we could say enough is enough, I’m done.

News flash - the above statement is a cop out.

No one ever needs cheating as a reason to end a relationship or marriage. Here’s my position: my H cheated on me twice. We’ve been happily R for 11 years from the last affair. But if I ever wake up one day and decide this marriage no longer works for me, I will end it.

Of course I would be sure to voice my feelings and give him an opportunity to address it. But if it cannot be fixed, then it cannot be fixed and it’s time to move on.

Why people choose to stay in unhappy marriages or situations makes me scratch my head. I understand fear and change blah blah blah are things they scare people.

But people deserve to be happy and if you feel you have done everything to make the situation work and it doesn’t, it’s time to change that dynamic.

You deserve better than to be "so-so" IMO.

It’s obviously not all unhappy, otherwise neither of us would want to stay right?

There are moments amidst all the bad stuff that’s come from infidelity that are good. It’s not all bad. But the happier moments now feel like they have a big rain cloud hanging over them, like they’re tainted by this thing that happened. So I guess the deciding whether or not to stay is deciding whether the good moments are enough now to keep trying to get to a better place or whether the bad stuff means the relationship is too broken to be fixed.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 8:48 AM, Sunday, December 29th]

[This message edited by user4578 at 8:07 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

Deciding to stay is accepting the reality of the person you are in a relationship with vs who you think they are or want them to be.

Ask yourself this - do I want to be exactly where I am now (in terms of this relationship) in one month or 3 months or one year etc?

One of my regrets during the false R period after dday1 was giving my cheating H waaay too much credit for his abysmal behavior in "reconciling". In reality I was doing everything — he was doing almost nothing.

So if on one morning he says "good morning" I would be excited b/c "he’s trying". I would think there is "hope". In reality he could not have cared less and just said good morning out of habit.

If I dealt in reality I might have saved myself from months of anguish and further trauma. But HOPING someone is going to change or things will improve is probably one of the worst places to be.

IMO your line "he’s trying" is just another example of holding out hope instead of accepting reality.

Not trying to be harsh here - just trying to help you see things from another perspective.

Not a Dr Phil fan but one thing he always says is something to the effect of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is crazy or unrealistic or whatever word he used.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:55 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

The 1st Wife… I’ve mostly lurked here, taking in the advice. And I think you’re spot on. I’m not going to deny you can see it as a cop out and/or excuse. But we’re all different and I’m glad what you did worked for you. All I’m trying to say is that what I am doing and what the OP is doing is not unique and there are no absolute ‘right ways’ and ‘wrong ways’ to approach this s—t storm.

My parents had a s—ty marriage and never should have stayed together for the nearly 60 years they did (he passed eventually). Did they present a bad example of a marriage? For sure! Do I know other couples who project bad marriages/relationships that don’t involve infidelity? Yup. But I am in no way trying to minimize the impact of infidelity.

The whole point is how I’m approaching this (and presumably then OP) is not unusual and we can acknowledge and empathize or not.

For me, there are many factors to weigh-up. I do feel humiliated by choosing to stay. I’m not ok with it, but it is what it is for me. I can deal with it and I will for now. Maybe that will change before my ‘deadline’, I don’t know. But I’ve been through enough s—t in my life, that I really don’t carry anymore what other people think of my decisions. I will do what I think is best for me and my kids.