SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Part of the reason I visit this site because I can hide behind my keyboard and "spew" without being told by people to basically take the high road or that the XW has been hurt too.

I've realized that I'm different at a core level, objectively there have been financial benefits due to being more focused and aggressive. However the price seems so high, I used to be kind and enjoyed being kind. Now I see it as a horrible weakness or that other see it as weakness. My guard is up, and I doubt it really ever drops in anyway or with anyone now. I doubt it really could drop to be honest around people. I realize I trust my dog more than any person, and often prefer his company over that of people and even family.

I appreciate being here and being able to say I'm angry. I'm angry at my treacherous X, at my entitled children (especially DD) and even my parents and her parents for actually always believing I am the always going to fix everything, solve the problem, be reasonable and take it in the shorts to make everything work out.

What a butcher's bill from this nonsense.

You’ve been heard, HF. I feel every word of what you wrote. I too am a different person at my core than I was before, still struggling to feel the deep inner happiness that I used to feel. It’s like everything is seen through a different filter now. Ditto on the dog too, lol.

I also get the anger at being the one that everyone expects to take a back seat to other people’s needs. I’m the fixer in my family too except that what it really means is that your feelings and needs are never the priority.

You have the right to put yourself first. You have the right to decline to solve any problems but your own. You don’t have to be reasonable when what that means is deprioritizing yourself in favor of someone else’s tantrum. And above all, you don’t have to take it in the shorts every time to make it work for other people just because they’ve come to expect that you will take last place behind everyone else.

I have also had this position in my family to the point of being told point blank that my feelings were not as critical as someone else’s simply because they were willing to cause a huge drama if they weren’t put first. I’ve literally been told that people know they "don’t have to worry" about my feelings because I won’t cause drama. It is up to us to teach them to behave differently by refusing the role that they’ve assigned to us.

You might (probably won’t) be able to control how they behave, but you can definitely teach them that how they behave and what they expect are not going to control you and determine your behavior. Fuck the high road. You are driving. Take whatever road you choose and calmly tell them that they can expect and think what they want, but that doesn’t determine what you do and think.

Easier said than done, I know. All of this sucks, but I am not young, and I am slowly learning to say no to the expectations of others that have been imposed on me for a lifetime—some of them by my own expectations of who I was and my sense that I was the strong one. Being the strong and reliable one no longer means that my feelings aren’t important and my needs can be taken care of last.

You are allowed to do that too.

As for the difficulties with trust—dog excepted. Well, I don’t know what to say about that except: you aren’t alone. This shit was imposed on us and It. Is. Not. Fair. It sucks. I’m angry right with you.

I believe you can find kindness in yourself again—starting with yourself. Be kind to you. Acknowledge and take care of your own feelings. Don’t let others disrespect you (dont disrespect yourself either) by stuffing your needs in favor of the needs and selfishness of people who don’t deserve it. Give yourself a break. You may find feelings of kindness are still there for people who truly deserve it, especially you.

Not one thing you said here is wrong or selfish or not okay. You have the right to say and feel every bit of this.

I understand where you’re coming from. I think our stories are similar in that we were both completely blind sided by a deceitful WW who planned to leave for AP and followed that plan ruthlessly. That’s the absolute worst side of infidelity. The betrayal, planning, abandonment and deviousness of your life partner is a very damaging when you understand what’s happening.

I feel the opposite to the way you do about kindness though. I think going through this trauma broke me down. I’m now much kinder, compassionate and empathetic. I’ve worked a 12 step program and credit it for helping this change.

I hope you can move forward and not let this experience destroy the good in you. Do you go to therapy? I think a good therapist would really help you.

I am not the same human as I once was, skeptical, sarcastic, guarded, short temper etc. That is the biproduct of being betrayed. I do miss my old pre D'day self that use to laugh and be the life of the party but I can't seem to find him although I catch a rare glimpse once in a blue moon and I have analyzed these moments and what I found is that everything and I mean EVERYTHING has to be perfect, The weather, how I'm being treated, no triggers, wife busting her ass around the house, being down to a healthy weight etc. Unfortunately needing perfection is a terrible affliction, it is unsustainable for the world to provide you with it so I've been training myself to not need it or even want it. Acceptance is what I'm trying to master but easier said than done.

I've often said that infidelity trauma has changed me on a quantum level. (Often enough that the predictive sentence feature on my phone wrote that sentence)

Prior to Dday, I was genuinely happy and content, or I understood myself to be these things. Looking back, I was subsidizing the comfort of those around me with the energy of my soul and it was slowly killing me.

Post Dday and all of the shit that comes with it, I am much less trusting. I've lost my faith in people, having seen not only the dark side of humanity, but how quickly those around you are willing to reject you if their own comfort is compromised. I smile less, laugh much less, socialize infrequently, ruminate often, struggle with sadness and am much quicker to anger.

But I'm also kinder and more empathetic. I'm more compassionate after having experienced the compassion of truly good friends. I listen more than I talk and have a good EQ. I've emotionally matured and know myself as never before. I've also discovered my self worth and now have solid boundaries.

There's more, but house get the gist. I've lost some stuff and gained other stuff. It is what it is. I've survived and that's a good thing. Just wish I could laugh like I used to. I think that's the part I miss the most.

hardyfool, you sound like a good man placed in a bad situation. I hope you see your way clear of these people. I would and have cut off blood relatives for less than what yours have put you through. I've learned I can be alone and enjoy my life.

I trust my dog more than any person, and often prefer his company over that of people

Absolutely. Except for my kids. I can't imagine how it would feel to have them choose a side,and it not be mine,when I've done nothing wrong.

Fuck the high road.

Indeed.

The trauma is still pretty fresh. You won't always feel this way,

I would be surprised if being betrayed didn't change you at a core level, but I also think the changes themselves change over time.

Co-dependence is the way media tell us we should act. You may have changed to be more self-directed than most people. You may be getting more and more honest with yourself, which leads you to rebel against dishonesty. That, in turn, may mean you need to be with others who are honest, too, and sometimes honesty is hard to find.

Give yourself some time. The core changes may be very positive for you and for the people around you.

I used to be kind and enjoyed being kind. Now I see it as a horrible weakness or that other see it as weakness.

A question: why were you kind before?

A thought: read the book The Evolution of Cooperation or just google on it, there’s a good Wikipedia page. There was a line of research that showed that for huge ranges of interaction situations where you repeatedly interact, where you could cooperate or not (be kind or not), the winning strategy was tit-for-tat, starting out being cooperative (kind). If they were unkind in that interaction you would be unkind in the next interaction, and so on. You can be provoked but also can forgive.

So there is good reason to keep kindness central to you, it’s the winning play! But then to reciprocate when treated not so kindly. That’s also part of the winning strategy.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 5:46 PM, Friday, April 12th]

I have really changed mentally and physically; I’ve lost 80 pounds, my hair and beard turned white immediately after dday. I don’t trust ANYBODY and it’s more of a reflection of my bad picker, I thought my wife and I were in lock step when it came to fidelity and marriage, because that is what she professed, I really thought that I had overachieved in this relationship and I had her on a pedestal and it turned out that she was just a lying deviant with the morality less than that of an alley cat, so who else in my life am I wrong about.

I’m over 50 and there are plenty of things that I won’t do any more. It’s a reverse bucket list and except for my list starting with the letter f the list even rhymes with bucket list. Some of the things I will never do again is help someone move, portage a canoe through the woods and most anyThing that is painful and boring. Also my wife is a malcontent, so there is no way to pleaser her anyways (I think it was manipulative to keep me reacting to her)so, I’m just gonna do what I want and at least one of us might be happy.

The down side of this is I have become largely unaffectionate. Guys don’t notice, but a hand shake is just a hand shake, so no real difference there, but the lady folk in my life have told me I used to give the best best hugs and they miss it. But with my bucket type list, I’m not going to do it unless I want to.

Gunnut, sounds like they (the forces in life that constantly trying to wear us down) won. Your wife as their secret agent.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 8:44 PM, Sunday, April 14th]

I hear you and understand Hardy Fool. I'm currently working away from home and I miss my dogs the most. I have 3 daughters, 2 of which have made very poor life choices but I'm not about to bail them out. They chose to not heed my advice and as I told them when I gave it, I have nothing to gain from it, and their choices are only affecting them. I often wonder how much my WW's behavior contributed to their thought process (15, 12, and 11 during the A). Post DDay my "give a shit" meter broke. I am more emotionally detached, rarely smile and hardly ever laugh. I exist. I realize that growing up I was conditioned that my feelings didn't matter, that everyone else's feelings were more important, regardless of their impact on mine. I guess one good thing post DDay (after doing the pick me dance) is my feelings matter, and if you can't accept them or respect them, then I will cut you out of my life, no regrets. Protecting yourself from others shouldn't be considered "unkind".

Just Some Guy, I was content too, and like you, looking back, I realize most of my time was accommodating everyone else, and my needs put to the back of the line. Well now my needs are front and center for the most part.

I too changed at a core level. I used to be really happy and motivated and those are the 2 things I still struggle with since my xWS A's. I have managed to find peace and some of the happiness back since I left him (leaving helped a lot). The damage is still there and probably always will be. I just don't have the drive and motivation I used to have in life like the air has been taken out of my wings.

Apologies for not getting quickly, I do appreciate the perspectives, they have been helpful.

@NowWhat106

I also get the anger at being the one that everyone expects to take a back seat to other people’s needs. I’m the fixer in my family too except that what it really means is that your feelings and needs are never the priority.

I have also had this position in my family to the point of being told point blank that my feelings were not as critical as someone else’s simply because they were willing to cause a huge drama if they weren’t put first. I’ve literally been told that people know they "don’t have to worry" about my feelings because I won’t cause drama. It is up to us to teach them to behave differently by refusing the role that they’ve assigned to us.

Looking back on when this started to today, that is it in a nutshell isn't it. This is exactly what I've been thinking and its been taking me to rabbit holes that lead to unpleasant conclusions about family.

@Jajaynumb

I understand where you’re coming from. I think our stories are similar in that we were both completely blind sided by a deceitful WW who planned to leave for AP and followed that plan ruthlessly. That’s the absolute worst side of infidelity. The betrayal, planning, abandonment and deviousness of your life partner is a very damaging when you understand what’s happening.

Thankfully its not really about the XW per se, I don't really care much about her these days. What bothers me is how its changed the trajectory of my life and the dynamics with the people in it. I look into things, which I never would have before, I control the flow information regarding my life, I'm just heavily guarded and suspicious now, which has positive and negatives. However this was not me before...

I've often said that infidelity trauma has changed me on a quantum level. (Often enough that the predictive sentence feature on my phone wrote that sentence)

Prior to Dday, I was genuinely happy and content, or I understood myself to be these things. Looking back, I was subsidizing the comfort of those around me with the energy of my soul and it was slowly killing me.

I agree with this quantum change, it effects everything even in a nonlocalized way. I feel I have subsidized many peoples' happiness and feelings at the expense of myself and the ROI was well, negative for me.

@atomic_mess

hardyfool, you sound like a good man placed in a bad situation. I hope you see your way clear of these people. I would and have cut off blood relatives for less than what yours have put you through. I've learned I can be alone and enjoy my life.

I'm not that nice of a guy anymore anymore I suspect.

@Hellfre

Absolutely. Except for my kids. I can't imagine how it would feel to have them choose a side, and it not be mine,when I've done nothing wrong.

This is the one point that has caused the most reality to be thrust into face. No matter how often I try massage the data, and twist its outcome, the truth is they especially my daughter did so, and did so openly. This choice of hers is what triggered this last posting.

As those who have read my ramblings know, now that I'm no longer entangled after the sale of the company and it was time to update my will to deal with the trusts and other points contained within because the the valuations can be a bit nuanced. As we were discussing how to do this to achieve an equitable split between my kids I found myself thinking about my relationship with my daughter, her behavior in this whole situation which led to a few dark thoughts. I tabled the meeting and spent a couple days hiking which I'm terrible at but its nice to be away from civilization to a degree.

@Sisoon

You may be getting more and more honest with yourself, which leads you to rebel against dishonesty. That, in turn, may mean you need to be with others who are honest, too, and sometimes honesty is hard to find.

Yes, this may a major point, things I've ignored, wanted to ignore or plain avoided seem to not want to fade into oblivion it seems.

@HouseofPlane

A question: why were you kind before?

I don't know to be honest, I've never been a fan of harming things. I guess because we are supposed to be so, unless attacked or provoked enough to justify another reaction. I've always been polite, or tried to be so..

@knitaknee

I often wonder how much my WW's behavior contributed to their thought process

I've been thinking about that statement since I read it, I'm concerned about the extrapolation of it.

Anyway, just my musings of the day.

"I've often said that infidelity trauma has changed me on a quantum level. (Often enough that the predictive sentence feature on my phone wrote that sentence)"

Sadly for me this too ^^

Some things are difficult to unexperience…

Shehawk

Some things are difficult to unexperience…

No more difficult than getting the WW to unfuck the AP..

That's part of what I need for peace, but alas.. Not happening..

[This message edited by Adolfo at 6:08 AM, Tuesday, April 16th]

I did have one core level change for the good,I used to be a people pleaser and now I don’t give a rats ass.

There is one thing I learned over the years. It’s ok to give time and resources if they come from a heathy place. We all bring our childhoods with us. Mine was to always be polite. Never cause embarrassment. Give in rather than let any one make a spectacle of us in public. My husband always got his way. Then I went to work in a job that required me to stand up for myself. That has been the best training of my life because it taught me to say "no". I don’t make excuses, I just use that one word. I am still kind. I still try to think of others but when I need to I always just say no. It is the most powerful word ever.

My marriage has become much healthier since I quietly said no.

Dogs love us unconditionally. They need to take over the world. Every one would have to take a nap, dig in the dirt, be happy all the time and give, and accept hugs, and give kisses. My idea of heaven.

@Adolfo

No more difficult than getting the WW to unfuck the AP.. rolleyes

I recall making that comment to a few people when they asked about how the situation could be improved. Told several if they could figure out they could all be much brighter than Einstein. It didn't seem to be well received most of the time.

I actually smile and laugh and enjoy life quite a bit, although I'm getting a little bored. The main catalyst is whenever something can drag me into the past such as me needed to update the will and trust. Since I've become different, perhaps judgmental definitely harsher and holding people accountable for past actions. Example I see my daughter in a different light today which leads to many different places.

I guess I would have preferred still to have some rose colored glasses on.