SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

How does one go about "ignoring or reading too much into" all of the pessimistic content out there regarding infidelity - you know, the "once a cheater, always a cheater" mentality. Upon finding this site and reading other people’s stories on SI, that is not in fact a true statement (I used to believe this was true prior to discovering my WH infidelity). However, as many of us here know the "once a cheater, always a cheater" is not always the case and that there are many WS out there who truly want to make a change/are in the process of making changes/have changed.

It just seems there is so much out there and because of the articles I read, pages I follow, etc. the algorithm is geared towards this type of content. Seriously, anytime I watch a reel on IG regarding infidelity and go to the comments every single person who comments posts "once a cheater, always a cheater", "once they cheat, I’m done", "run, don’t walk", "no second chances" … these types of comments are becoming kinda sabotaging to my self esteem and setting me back in my healing. I’m not intentionally seeking it out, but it finds me and I get intrigued (maybe this time I will read something positive), only to then become discouraged.

Anybody else kinda get where I am coming from or have similar thoughts/feelings about this?

While I generally don't like Esther Perel, especially to newly minted BSs because she is more or less an apologist for cheating. That doesn't mean she lacks any valuable insights.

Here is a bit she said in one interview on "the new shame" of staying.

Among the few surprises I discovered in writing and researching this book is the notion that long after divorce became a possibility, it still was divorce that carried all the shame. Divorce was the stigma. But today, when people can have no-fault divorce, choosing to stay is the new shame. And so what happens is that not only was I betrayed by the person that I love and with whom I share my life, but on top of that I can’t talk about it with my friends, with my family, with the people who are close to me, for fear that they will judge me.

So now I’m living with a double secret. And I end up protecting the person who deceived me from people who would otherwise pour a lot of advice that is not necessarily what I need to hear. I need help, I need support, I need loving people around me to help me figure out what I want to do. We don’t really know the other considerations that make people to decide that this is worth it for them to stay, to work it through, and maybe even to come out the other side stronger and more honest.

So it's really hard, you know. Opening up and being vulnerable and even going back on what you thought you'd do. This change of mindset requires you to be unashamed by the end of it. You won't stay out of fear and weakness. You'll give a gift of grace out of flexibility and resilience. But it's a hard loss philosophically before you turn the corner and I've called it "losing something integrity adjacent".

Hopefully you can also find real life support in this time, but we are here to help.

Sending strength.

It is very difficult. I also was of the opinion of once a cheater always a cheater and thought if it ever happened to me I’d be gone… until it happened. Everyone has a plan until they’re punched in the face. It isn’t easy to manoeuvre through infidelity to begin with but to have everyone telling you what you should do and have strong opinions just adds to the stress of it. Investing in friendships and people that are supportive of you is really important when you are walking through this process. Knowledge is power and I believe reading about the topic from many different sources that have studied and educated themselves on infidelity has helped me understand it better. It doesn’t make it any easier but it helps me understand something i never really understood previously. Hurt people hurt people. So for your own sanity you have to try and shut off the ‘noise’ of others opinions and do what works for you. Listen to the voice within. It will guide you probably better than it ever did before. You will be more in tune with your inner voice. I know i am.

What I said/thought before DDay: "If I ever found out he cheated on me, I'd be outta there so fast."

What I've thought, and said on occasion, every day since: "You have absolutely no idea what you'll think or do until you're the one wearing the shoes."

It's a good lesson, and not just for infidelity.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 7:57 PM, Monday, February 19th]

This topic comes up in various forms so often, I wonder if it should be it's own category. At the root of it or at least one of the roots, is confirmation bias. We look for what we agree with. When I was actively trying to R, I gravitated towards anything that would give me hope, while ignoring naysayers. After choosing to D, I did the opposite. Each time, I just wanted some confirmation that I was doing the right thing, that I was protected by the aggregate experience of others.

Now that I'm 5+ years out, I think my pendulum has settled and I have a more balanced view of life. I have a decidedly more realistic view of people based on muchbreading, research, and personal experience. I am also situated in the evolutionary psychology camp, which allows me to see that there are many factors at play in terms of human behaviour.

Sadly, there are not many longitudinal studies on infidelity and survivability, and even if there were, people lie, especially waywards. So in the end, you have to trust the stats you find helpful, while recognizing their lack of veracity. And you have to decide on the level of risk you are comfortable with.

For me, there were a few things that factored into my decision, and yes, my EXWW has always been a cheater. Probably always will.

First. I recognize from the research into child development, that personality or character is solidified early on, depending on a combination of biology and environment. Even Pope had this truism down when he wrote, "As the twig is bent, so is the tree inclined".

Add to this any childhood trauma or FOO issues, and things get more complex. Some of these, depending on the severity, can not be overcome, only managed to some degree.

Now comes coping mechanisms. IMHO many affairs are an act of self-medicating to a degree. Whether is gettingba high or easing a pain, it gives the WS what they think they want or need.

Does this mean we're irredeemable? Yes and no. It all depends on core personality, coping strategies, an inclination towards delayed gratification, history of trauma, the nature of the affair. And the desire orvability to self-improve.

You see, my EXWW is a 55 year old version of her 20 year old self. In actuality, she is probably still pre-adult in terms of development. Because of her childhood, she has both a contempt for men and a need to please them, most likely using sex and hyper sexualized behaviour to subconsciously project control and superiority over the object of her contempt and a replacement for her hating her father. Her father was a serial cheater and abusive husband. As a result, she has unresolved anger towards her mother for staying. Trust me, It is much messier that this, but the po8nt is, she might, on an outside chance, bevable to change. But only with a certain level of self awareness and a will to do the work. The problem is that she is the least self-aware person I know. Plus she has ADHD and has an inability to see things through (hence delayed gratification issues).

Has she learned and grown after I left her 5 years ago? No. In fact, she seems to be getting worse. Her depression has gotten worse, she is noticeably more negative (a family trait), and she continues to display the same decision making patterns that were evident pre-A.

So, although I do believe it is possible for people to redeem themselves to some degree, often the effort is herculean on their part, and given that we live in a society based on the right to have personal "happuness" coupled with instant gratification, it has become more rare for people to put their heads down an do the long hard work to change.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 8:53 PM, Monday, February 19th]

Anybody else kinda get where I am coming from or have similar thoughts/feelings about this?

The upside of SI is if you read long enough, you’ll find someone who has experienced a path similar to the one you’re on or want to take.

Only you get to live your life, so the other SI advice I liked was, "Take what you need and leave the rest."

The most active members here are either people working through pain or those hearty recovered souls trying to help people out.

I also found, despite all of the best advice, I had to be in charge of my own healing. IC helped a little, not a lot. Time doesn’t necessarily heal all wounds either.

After a while, I built on whatever positive element happened in a day and then worked to string a few good moments together.

I kept reading here too, even when a lot of folks are hurting, there are threads old and new that I read and again, found a few souls who worked through the recovery like I wanted too.

Don’t get me wrong, the negative posts help too. I have to know every possible outcome, and be ready for however or wherever life takes me.

There are other web resources as well, I just found all of the very real stories and real time advice here to be the most helpful, even the tough to read stories.

Keep reading, keep working on you and hopefully your WH is working on being a better partner.

Honestly, I don’t think it should be the sites mission to try to change general perceptions in mass of how they view infidelity. Rather, it should be geared as much as possible to help individuals who come here most times in trauma in dealing with their situation. The advice given here for the most part is pretty good. Of course there are the posters who advise divorce immediately almost in instance, but also those who advise people who have been so wronged and continue to be wronged to stick it out.

I will say my perception has changed. I never thought I would ever stay, even as long as I did with someone who cheated on me. But Like someone said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. My perception has also evolved when I read stories that makes me think there is NFW he or she could ever forgive and go on and have a successful marriage. Yet my beliefs changed when I read some stories of strong BS’s whom I admire who are not simps, that have done just that.

But again, the site should be focused on the individual with some general discussions in the general forum but those will do nothing against the huge number of Reddit posts or you tube videos.

well, waitedwaytolong got it:

Honestly, I don’t think it should be the sites mission to try to change general perceptions in mass of how they view infidelity. Rather, it should be geared as much as possible to help individuals who come here most times in trauma in dealing with their situation.

and try to discern the ability of the OP to assimilate what is offered for help in dealing with their emotional turmoil -

I feel it’s invaluable to research the full range of infidelity.

Here on this sight, and many othet infidelity subs where R is a possibility, the two books always recommend are "Not Just Friends" and "How to help your spouse heal from an affair"
They are fantastic books, however they both assume the cheating spouse is remorseful and has the ability to make the changes that the books recommend. Truth is, a lot of cheating spouses don’t. That’s why you see so many saying once a cheater always a cheater. Cheating is easier than change, and a lot of BS who offers R and forgiveness also have a hard time enforcing the boundaries they require. I’m not being mean, I’m a BS who absolutely could not enforce NC with AP after dday1, which is a partial reason I had a massive dday2.

The reality of post infidelity marriage working is difficult. There are a lot of stats out there, and from everything I have read, it is a high failure rate, usually by the 5 year mark. This data is flawed because it requires self reporting and many couples don’t like to openly discuss infidelity, so there could be a silent majority who just never open up about it. It’s impossible to say.

But as a BS, I feel it’s absolutely critical to read the stories of those who not only survived, but of the many who failed. Not for pain shopping but to keep myself grounded in reality. To see the warnings and behaviors that I missed before, and to be honest, to see that many of my feelings and difficulties are universal.

At the end of the day, no one else can make you do anything, nor do they know your relationship. Only you can make the choice that you feel is best. No matter what you do there will always be naysayers who criticize. Be confident in yourself in that you are doing what you want and feel is best for you.

I think life has a lot of lessons to offer about ourselves, not others. Some of us are very good at judging ourselves and should do less of it, but others of us are really good at judging others and really bad when it comes to looking honestly at ourselves. These people have many lessons to learn. I used to be one of them.

When something happens to someone or when they make a decision I don't understand, I now try to avoid judging. I would never, ever tell someone else about their own partner--"Leave him!" Or "Once a cheater, always a cheater."--because I no longer have the inflated ego to assume I know someone else's life better than they do. I often have an opinion if they ask, but I certainly don't KNOW that they will be happy, pain free, so much better off, etc. if they do as I say. I only have an opinion, not a crystal ball.

But lots of people have not reached this epiphany. They are still trapped in supposedly knowing what they would do in a future situation or what other people should do. I read once that the more you judge others and tell people what to do, the greater your need to counter your own low self-esteem and doubt. By seeing others as messing up, you are attempting to raise up your own opinions as wisdom and raise your own life choices and views to make yourself feel good. As I watch interactions between people, I can see how true this is.

And that all reminds me that I am an expert in knowing my life, my choices, my mistakes, and my wins. They are all mine and nobody else gets a vote. And if you WANT a vote in my choices, that says far more about your issues than mine.

You might consider boundaries and asking for what you want from friends and family, too. I had to ask people to just listen and not give advice. I said, "Can you do that please? Because that's what I need."

But (big but), it is very hard for people who have some emotional distance and are not in love with the cheater to overlook hurtful or abusive treatment of someone they love. We cannot control whether or not these friends and family want to stick around and spend time with people they generally consider bad. We may have to agree to disagree, or we may have to consider that they might have a point. (But it's definitely still OUR choice.) Just something to think about if it comes to this. And then IC can be invaluable in giving us an objective, third party view and the support we need.

OIN,

How do you fit descriptions of abuse into that view? We often make judgments that someone is being abused and advise getting out ASAP.

I agree with those who say our best bet is to find our own way to good lives instead of listening to other people tell us what we should do.

I'd like to agree with you fully, OIN, but I know there are times we advise people to leave even though in most cases we aim to help members find their own path. I can't figure out how to turn that into a principle, though, because it's seems like the opposite of the general principle you articulated....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:51 PM, Tuesday, February 20th]

I can think of nothing more dangerous than ignoring perspectives outside of our own.

I recall when my kids were at college and the safe space nonsense seemed to be at its apex. I asked my kids does that in essence mean that people of threatened by ideas, thought and opinions that are not their own or at least in agreement with the current environment.

It became is very philosophical question with some frightening real world reality in that is was exactly what it meant when I pointed out what would that have meant for women's suffrage, civil rights movement or what is to come next. It is never a good idea to close our minds to things even if they are uncomfortable or even to dismiss them.

We should use everything as learning tool, just try to keep your thumb away from the intellectual hammer.