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My husband and I are still doing counseling.
We are still doing about the same (if u have read my past post). He is still trickle feeding me truths and each time that’s all there is…he promises🙄. Still refuses a lie detector.
My issue is his anger. He’s ALWAYS had no patience and short fuse. Always yelling, screaming and cussing over anything and everything. He has been a little better the past couple of years. I still have tons of questions and stuff I want to discuss with him, but every time I try to bring something up he says…"u are trying to start some shit! I’ve already told u everything (ha), so u are just trying to start a fight!" And each time we will get into a fight even though I stay calm. Is talking about it and having questions not a normal part of healing??? I mean, it’s been 9 months, but those 9 months were him lying to me nonstop and the last "truth" he told me was the first of Dec. So it’s like Dday all over again.
And like I’ve always done, when he starts in yelling and cussing, I close down. I just say ok to shut him up. I, myself, have so much anger from him always being this way….I just hold it all in and always have. Prob the reason for my many health problems🙄.
How do u all handle people like this (anger issues)? I’d say it’s just his way not to have to talk about it, but he’s been this way for 28 years so that’s not the only reason.
And another thing, one of the women he messed with lives 5 hrs away. I have a friend that would easily do a road trip with me. Should I pay her a visit and at least get some truths from her??? She’s a druggie so if I offer money, she’ll prob tell me anything I want to know. It’s not like it’s a big deal to her….she screws everyone.

He needs individual counseling to deal with his anger issues.
You need to decide if you want to live like this.

Yeah….that’s what I’m trying to decide. I hate to throw away 28 years, but then again, he sure didn’t mind. But I’m not him and don’t want to be. It’s just so hard. I wonder why they can’t just tell the truth? Is it so freaking hard to do??! Seriously?
He’s in counseling for addiction…porn. But he’s dealing with his emotions and feelings, also. So I assume the therapist is doing it all.

[This message edited by Ihatelying at 8:52 PM, Tuesday, January 17th]

His anger and yelling right now is functional. The function, for him, is to shut you up and to shut down the line of questioning. It’s not an anger problem, it’s emotional abuse, and he’s doing it on purpose to control you.

Look, especially in a long-term marriage, it may be reasonable to stick things out with a wobbly wayward (a euphemistic term in this context) for a few months to see if the fog lifts and the remorse sets in. In your case it’s been 9 months and it doesn’t seem like that is happening yet, or my guess would be, ever. If anything, he’s getting worse. Your profile mentions a long history of verbal abuse – so it doesn’t sound like this is a new phenomenon.

Gently, if he refuses to be honest with you, you don’t have much to work with in terms of reconciliation. He’s not magically going to have a epiphany of empathy. If you keep doing the same thing over and over, you can’t expect to get a different result. Gently, I must ask, what is keeping you in this marriage. Don’t you think you deserve better than this? I know I do.

He’s in counseling for addiction…porn. But he’s dealing with his emotions and feelings, also. So I assume the therapist is doing it all.

Presumably he's lying to his therapist as well. I can't imagine that will be all that effective.

His anger and yelling right now is functional. The function, for him, is to shut you up and to shut down the line of questioning. It’s not an anger problem, it’s emotional abuse, and he’s doing it on purpose to control you.

My XWH used to do something similar, and it was basically to control the outcome and get me to shut up. He didn't want to have to deal with his issues. He wanted to get through until I let it go (like I had so many times), then everything could go back to normal for him.

FWIW, I filed a week before our 34th anniversary. I wasn't going to stay in the same cycle and be treated the way I had been for so long.

On the other side, I'm so much happier and content since I don't have to deal with XWH's bull any longer.

I'll be honest, IHL... I don't think this guy is sorry. If he was, there might still be occasional backsliding into anger and poor judgment, but it wouldn't still be the norm for him.

I think one of the hardest things to accept about this experience is that the drive to keep investigating is a mixed bag. On the one hand, we want to know what we're forgiving and that's important, but on the other, it a becomes a crazy-making obsession that we have to consciously work on in order to rein in. I had to MAKE myself stop, so I get it, I really do. The energy is frenetic and compulsive. It beetles into your brain and drums there in a seemingly relentless pounding rhythm. I get it. We all do.

Here's the thing though, that's part and parcel with the trauma response. Our brains are more or less organic computers, and this is just part of the process. Recreating and retelling "the story", repairing the broken code, overwriting old, corrupt data with new. Nothing is trusted until it's verified, and reverified, and reverified. The problem is though that the WS doesn't understand the process and most of us don't understand it ourselves well enough to explain it. So... what you can try is education, and that is IF he's amenable to it. Honestly, I don't think he's remorseful enough to be bothered with any actual work, but if you can get him to read a book, you can try The Body Keeps Score by Bessell van der Kolk. He's unarguably the world's premier expert on trauma, and even though this book is not about infidelity per se, it made me feel so much better once I understood what was happening in my brain. There's also a book called Transcending Post-infidelity Stress Disorder (PISD): The Six Stages of Healing by Dennis Ortman. I read it years ago, and unfortunately, I don't remember enough about it to give a thorough review, so I would advise to read it yourself first before giving it to your WS.

The only other recommendation I can think of would be to insist he get a depression screening. Depression often manifests as anger, so that's a possibility. Although, anger does appear to be deeply ingrained in your WH's personality at this point. Bear in mind that even when we achieve good R, it's not a total makeover of the WS. He would still be essentially the same person, just with better integrity and boundaries. If he's been an asshole your whole marriage, I don't think a new commitment to Fidelity is going to change that. It really does come down to what you already know... and this is also essential to putting away the compulsion for more information.

What you already know is that your WS is a cheater. You know that he's currently NOT remorseful enough to empathize with what he's put you through. And you know that he has an ongoing anger issue which is, as yet, unresolved and might never be resolved. That's quite a lot that you already know.

((big hugs))

Emergent8 - it’s all just so confusing. Sigh. I mean, the way he’s always treated me and the porn….I was just waiting til the kids got older so I could divorce him. Then about two ish years ago, he started to do a lot better on the anger and I could find the man I married. I didn’t want to divorce him anymore except the porn still upset me a lot. I’d put up a wall to keep myself from getting hurt from it. Sigh. And no, I don’t want to live like that, but it’s just something I had to deal with bc I had four kids and I didn’t want to do that to them. And yes, I understand I might have done them even more harm by staying, but I don’t know. So now three of my kids are 19 to 23. My youngest is 15. She’s a daddy’s girl😞.
My husband is great as long as things are going his way. As long as there’s no conflict or anything to stress him out. And in his defense (and by all means, I don’t want to defend him, but if I’m being truthful…) I think he’s as sorry as he can be (which isn’t enough for me) and he’s trying to do his best (since Dday), but the not telling/omitting the truth is too much. And he’s so use to lying that it’s second nature. I still catch him in little lies and point them out to which he gets kissed over me calling him a liar. His sister is a habitual liar and I use he’s just like her. His automatic response is to lie. It’s so exhausting.
So should I go see the AP or not??? I never would have, but I’m tired of not getting the truth. Maybe I can from her…I can’t really ask the other women bc she’s on drugs back and a psycho.
And my husband has also said that details should matter. That if he tells me he screwed someone then that should be enough. No reason to ask questions or details about it. Bahahaha.
I know I’m going to freak on him and kick him out…one day if something doesn’t change, but I still have to think of the kids. They really don’t know anything. We act fine in front of them (never agreed with fighting in front of them). This year, they’ve caught me crying in my room or the bathroom, but I just say it’s personal or hormones (menopause). I’d never tell them what he did bc he might be an ass, but he loves his children dearly and they always disliked him to a point bc of how he treated them. Now he’s actually has a relationship with them and the one that hated (not really…just hurt) him the most gets along with him and laughs. I’m so happy for both of them. If they ever found out, they would be crushed and hate him again. I just can’t do that to either of them. Granted, when they get in their 40’s then it doesn’t matter if they find out.
I’m so screwed up 🤦‍♀️ 🤦‍♀️

His anger, while probably real(ish), is also a great deflection tool for him. You ask, he gets angry, it shuts you down. Because then the discussion moves from talking about the real issues to wrangling and soothing his mads. That's exactly how he wants it, whether he consciously realizes it or not.

I know that cus my xwh and my dad both pulled this nonsense with me and it worked like a charm until I said when.

As to how I handle it? I just don't. If they wanna act like like toddlers and act like I'm crazy for having a reasonable emotional reaction to a situation they can just go elsewhere and throw their little tantrum. I don't engage and I've gotten to the point where I also mostly don't let it get to me because their anger is about them, not me (it was a long and bumpy road getting to this point tho). BTW, that's true of a LOT of interpersonal stuff I've found - other people's feelings and emotions are theirs to control and deal with; my job is making sure that I am living in my truth and having healthy, clearly communicated boundaries for myself. If they feel a way about that, it's truly not my problem.

Also, I wouldn't recommend talking to the ap. If she's an active addict you can't trust anything she says anyways.

I think he’s as sorry as he can be (which isn’t enough for me)

You know, a really good thing that came out of all of this for me is that I am way more able to meet people where they are, rather than where I wish they were. You might be right - he might be as sorry as he is capable of being. The question then is... is that enough for you? You say it isn't above, so then the question after that is... what are you going to do about it? It's a hard question for sure, but ultimately you can't MAKE him get it. All you can control is you and what you are willing to tolerate or not.

I still have to think of the kids. They really don’t know anything. We act fine in front of them (never agreed with fighting in front of them). This year, they’ve caught me crying in my room or the bathroom, but I just say it’s personal or hormones (menopause). I’d never tell them what he did bc he might be an ass, but he loves his children dearly and they always disliked him to a point bc of how he treated them. Now he’s actually has a relationship with them and the one that hated (not really…just hurt) him the most gets along with him and laughs. I’m so happy for both of them. If they ever found out, they would be crushed and hate him again. I just can’t do that to either of them. Granted, when they get in their 40’s then it doesn’t matter if they find out.

My dad treated me like crap for years. I no longer have a relationship with him because of it. That had nothing to do with my mom - that was alllllll him. Likewise here - YOU are not damaging their relationship with their dad. He did that all on his own when he decided to cheat on his family. Cus rest assured, he cheated on them too. And sorrynotsorry, but if they find out he's a cheater and don't like him anymore? That's kind of a natural consequence of his choices. I'm not saying go out of your way to give them all the gory details, but you are under no obligation to 'protect' him from those consequences either, especially to your own emotional and mental detriment.

ChamomileTea - speaking of boundaries…… u know he has a porn addiction. Has our whole marriage and years before. So my boundary was not watching movies or anything with nudity. Even if it’s a dead woman on the ground. If she’s nude then no watching. Now…that might seem stupid, but first off, it can be a trigger for him and the other reason….I’ve put up with freaking porn for 28 years. I’m sick of it and if our marriage doesn’t mean enough to him for him to agree then he can leave. Long story short, he agreed (wasn’t happy and came back and apologized and said he would go by that rule). That was about 6 months ago. He’s been sticking to it as far as I know. He will look a movie up before he watches it. He has let me know he thinks it’s utterly ridiculous, but he does it. Of course, me having no trust whatsoever…I look up the movies he’s watching and it infuriates him. I can’t even ask why movie he’s watching in conversation bc he gets pissed. Says he doesn’t need a damn mommy looking over his shoulder making sure he doesn’t watch anything. 🤦‍♀️
Who in the world would trust him??? Why in the hell would I just leave it to him and trust him? Hell! That’s what I’ve done in the past and look where it’s gotten me!? Sigh. I’ve pissed myself off now 😂 🤦‍♀️
And even though he says it’s his fault (him cheating on me), I still think he blames me for it all. If I’d been a better and more loving wife (to my porn addict) then he wouldn’t have had the need to cheat and look for affection elsewhere. 🖕….that’s what I have to say. And u know what? If I’d had a husband that wasn’t verbally and emotionally abusive to me and the kids and watched prob 24/7 (or movies with tons of sex…..bought sex toys to keep for himself at work while watching porn) then maybe I would have wanted to be more affectionate and loving!!!!!

If I didn’t have kids at home….I’d separate in a heartbeat. If for nothing else than to show him I’m not taking his shit anymore! Sigh. Sorry for the rant

You said you had decided to wait until the kids were out of the house, then divorce him. But a few years ago, he started acting nice,so you thought you'd stay married.

You see now that he's still a raging asshole. Unless,of course, things are going his way. Clearly showing you that you're happiness means nothing to him.

So maybe you need to go back to your plan to divorce him after the kids leave the house.

You've been told you can't reconcile with an unremorseful WS. You're finding out why. It's impossible.

So,my advice is to lay low. Stop asking questions. He's not going to suddenly decide to tell you the truth. All it's getting you is more pain. And file when you can.

Don't ask the OW anything. She's simply one of his may OW. There's no reason to think you would get the truth from her.

And,honestly? At this point, do the details matter? He's not remorseful. He's still lying. He doesn't care that you need to know what happened in your marriage,with your husband. He doesn't feel he should be uncomfortable, if it means helping you heal. He's not showing love or respect. He cheats on you,and has the arrogance to be a mean to you afterwards. His abuse far outweighs the details of what he did with some whore.

And that relationship He's developed with the kid he spent years abusing? Sounds like it's more about manipulating you,and her,and less about actually suddenly wanting a close bond with her.

You are still trying to reconcile with a man who has made it clear he doesn't want reconciliation. He just doesn't want to divorce. Those are not the same thing. He's made it clear He's not changing. He's still very much wayward. The only thing that will change, is when you start changing. You can either rugsweep,and never fully heal,or you can realize you deserve more.

Kids know more than we give them credit for. They know he cheated.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:46 PM, Tuesday, January 17th]

I listen to all of u and I get it. Sigh. My husband has had problems since he was a kid growing up. His father treated them worse than he treated us. Knowing how his father made him feel is the only thing that has reined him in over the years and made him feel like the shit he was for treating his kids that way. I have pounded it in my kids heads to NEVER treat their family that way and if they find themselves doing it….get counseling right then. I e told them this since they were kids. My sec kid would cry to me after he got mad and went into a rage…..he’d ask me why he did it. I told him that being upset is a natural reaction to some things but acting like a jerk isn’t. That the next time, walk away….wait ten mins and then it won’t seem like such a big deal. So growing up…that’s what he’d try to do. I’ve tried my best to teach them how to handle things and explain. They all four need therapy. Well, maybe not the youngest. He’s was acting better by the time she got up old enough to remember in detail.
So while he’s the ass he is….it started when he was a kid. He never had help. And I believe, 100%, that the ONLY reason he’s been acting better these past couple of years is bc his testosterone has dropped majorly. He tried testosterone cream and started acting worse and I made him stop it. He doesn’t like how he acts. I think he’s been depressed for years and took it out on all of us.
He told me in the beginning, Dday, that it was his fault that he ultimately cheated but I was to blame too bc I didn’t show him any attention. He means sex (he was a sex addict until his testosterone dropped, now he could really care less). He’s always been a VERY needy and VERY unsure person. It would freak me out. So I think he really still blames me for him cheating and screwing up.
I just wish he would have gotten help 28 years ago. Sigh. I’m too nice of a person bc I see his good, his bad and I see what he doesn’t even realize himself and I do feel sorry for him.
I just pray my therapist can help me and to decide what I want. It’s only been 4 appointments so she’s just really been getting a feel of everything. She did mention us (me and her) and my husband and his therapist having a session together. 😈

Of course, me having no trust whatsoever…I look up the movies he’s watching and it infuriates him. I can’t even ask why movie he’s watching in conversation bc he gets pissed. Says he doesn’t need a damn mommy looking over his shoulder making sure he doesn’t watch anything.

That's just another good reason to keep your ducks in a row. It's too exhausting to be the marriage police, for one thing. For another, he can't ever prove himself to be trustworthy if you give him no chances, right?

I agree that it's 100% okay to decide you don't want porn in your life and to make that a boundary. That said, having a boundary doesn't necessarily mean that you have to patrol it 24/7. I think it would probably be okay to let go of the surveillance and observe what he does. I mean, optimally, you'd have a post-nup which says very clearly that any further cheating or porn and your settlement goes through. Even if that's not a legal thing, it should be 100% understood by him that's where the boundary is.

Having a plan for what you'll do if that boundary is broken will help you let go of the outcome to some extent because really, trusting your WH isn't the biggest hurdle. Trusting YOURSELF is the thing. When you know, without any question in your mind, that you'll be okay no matter what happens in your marriage, the relationship anxiety dissipates. He got caught before. If he goes back to it, you'd catch him again. Because you're smart and you're capable. The fear comes from not knowing what's going to happen, but when YOU are your ultimate plan, the safety net is there and you're free to take some risks.

Take your time... and have a back-up plan. Two prongs, not an either/or choice that you have to make right now.

I understand. I really do. I don’t WANT to want to watch his every move, but there’s no trust and it’s hard. I mean, he’s lied about things since we have been back together. Lies are his first go-to. He’s done it for 28 years (lie). The only way in the past that I was able to live a halfway normal life was not to care.
This shit is hard. Sigh. I just want to kick his ass. I can’t trust ….maybe it will eventually come, but I’m NOT going to ever leave myself open again for him to screw me over.
Another thing, I work with him now (my kids are hold enough to be on their own) bc we own a place. So I’m with him 24/7. He has no time to cheat…plenty of time to look at porn if he wanted. So unless I stop working up here then he won’t ever be "tempted" to cheat. It’s an annoying situation

The short answer to this is that he is a bully. Please leave.

If you're going to stay married to him, then the only way to survive as his wife is to stop poking the bear. Keep your mouth shut, don't ask questions, and don't go snooping. Be as nice and pleasant as possible. Also, make sure that you're using condoms when you have sex with him so at least you can protect your physical health, even if your mental health is in shreds.

If that doesn't seem like a tenable way to live the rest of your life, well... you know what you need to do.

BluerthanBlue - I get it. So u are saying in a nice way….if I want to be a dumb ass and make believe that all is great then I can live in my fantasy world. Just make sure to have protected sex so he doesn’t give me any more STD’s.
Or I can kick his ass to the curb and I won’t have to worry about anymore lies and wondering about the truth.

I actually wasn’t being sarcastic or demeaning you; I was just giving you the facts, which is that the only way to peacefully remain married to this particular man is to live according to his terms only and put your needs completely aside. And yes, you need to assume he is always going to cheat and you need to prevent getting more diseases from him.

You can have this man as your husband or you can live a different life where you are treated with respect, dignity, and love.

You can’t have both.

Blue is right. If you are going to stay with him, for your own mental health, stop asking him to be who he isn't. Stop trying to get him to not be a bully. You've said things are fine as long as you don't bring up what he did,and what you need. So to keep the peace,you need to stop talking about it. It's getting you nowhere, except more pain. Of course you want him to be honest,and remorseful. But he's not that man. And no amount of you trying to make him be that man is going to make him actually be that man.

He isn't going to change. So you have to either accept that,and rugsweep along with him. Or you set fire to that broom,and tell him to fuck off,and file for divorce. Doing anything else is torturing yourself.