SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well, Yup, as you all thought I was a sucker and believed him when he said it was only 3 times (last time being arrested.). Turns out he'd had 3 additional attempts that turned out to be scams as well as visits to strip club w/lap dances and porn on & off for the past few years. He shared the last two...Since he couldn't recall the timeline, I didn't trust him and went through his devices. Of course he'd cleared his Hx but Google Maps had his recent destinations. Hmmmm..am I dealing now with a sex addict?

Our therapist had us at a place of trust and vulnerability my WH promised I knew the truths. As per this forum, I asked for the whole truth - everything (including lying through omission) and even told him I need to know now because I don't want to find out later that there was more...well....as you all predicted, there was more. As you all said he "he wanted to protect me and told me the worst parts and didn't want to cause me more pain." Nope. That's all about protecting himself.

NOW he swears I have the everything. Said so in front of the therapist, but he did that last time too.

It's so sad...we actually had the best week we've had in years. Painful times of course, but the most connected week I can recall in I don't know how long. Then BOOM - the not even close to healed wound ripped open, gaping and oozing.

With the new information I feel humiliated all over again. I feel stupid and once again he's beating me while I am down.

It's no big deal predicting the WW or WH is going to trickle truth is like predicting that a dog will eat bacon enthusiastically.

I hate that you are back w/ more information, just one of these times I would love to know we were wrong and there are unicorns of cheating out there, but sadly there aren't.

Now that you have more information the one thing you need to accept is that you have no truth yet. So like we recommended before, get the STD testing, and require he do so too, this makes him realize you aren't going to trust him, and that's important moving forward. Require him to do this. He has participated in risky behaviors with high risk individuals.

You should also see an attorney, and do it on your own, not with his knowledge. You need to understand your options, and what choices YOU have. You need to stop trying to rebuild something you don't know the extent he has damaged, or will continue to damage with his behaviors. The one thing you do know is he is making choices without regard to your well-being and safety.

While each situation with a cheater is unique the actions of the cheaters are highly predictable. There is an unwritten set of actions from cheaters that we can tell you step by step they will say and do. That said, be very careful of putting a title of sex addict on him w/o proper diagnosis by appropriate diagnostician. It becomes an excuse for bad behavior, just like being any other addict becomes an excuse for other behaviors.

Please don't run from our harsh truths. We are trying to prevent you from making the same mistakes we made in the early days.

Just sent you a PM!!

@Tushnurse - Thank you. I was running from some of the "harsh truths" - trying to believe somehow my WH was different...well, there we go. I have required STD testing and am thinking about meeting with a lawyer to know my options.

I see you and your WS R'd. How long did it take to get the full truth and to truly be able to work on your marriage?

@Survrus - Thank you, too! I actually chuckled at your analogy and I appreciate that. Haven't felt a laugh or joy all day today.

Dont fall for the short term good behavior. I know you want to save this, but look around and you will see so many repeats. Dealing with a sex addict, or serial cheat is very very challenging as it will relapse.

Do yourself a favor. Don't view him through his short term work, look at who he really is. He is a broken man, and you will carry these horrible memories if you stick it out with him, and you put yourself in a position for repeats.

Let him carry the load if you want to R, but don't look at his short term change. He needs to be consistent for the long term. It needs to last, and you need to let him know or you will pull the plug at any time.

Completely different situation from yours. My H's A was total MLC (midlife crisis) nonsense. I knew something was up from almost day one.
But to be fair and answer your question

I see you and your WS R'd. How long did it take to get the full truth and to truly be able to work on your marriage?

My H denied for about 6 mos, while I did all I could to keep my ish together, and find proof, then I finally did, he was willing to share the timeline and who she was, and details pretty much when I confronted with the proof because he knew cheating was a deal breaker for me from pretty early on in our relationship.

He of course thought he was smarter than me, and kept breaking NC w/ her. I finally had to throw him out for him to get his head dislodged from his backside. The only reason I gave him half a chance was because my kids were small, and he was out of work and the attorney told me I could be asked to pay spousal support, and I wasn't about to do that then. Now if he hadn't gotten his head right, and done the work to fix his shit, there is no doubt that I would have D'd him.

So sorry, Shock. TT is like more knives in the back. Truly take stock of what you want and need. Watch his actions because they speak louder than words.

Here is where you need to start over.

Dday2 as we call it needs to be the defining Moment in your M.

IMO yoI are jumping too fast at R.

He needs to prove himself. He needs to be consistent that he’s stopping the lying & cheating permanently. And that takes time.

Do not help him reconcile. He needs to figure it out on his own. 100%. I told my H nothing. I didn’t tell him about a book or podcast etc. he did all the work himself b/c he did all the cheating himself too.

I demanded a post nup to even consider R. So financially I am protected.

It’s time you took your power bsck in this relationship. Not in a mean way but in a no nonsense way. He needs to understand that you will no longer accept the status quo and you will walk away.

That is what Made my H snap out of his affair fog - my telling him I was D him on day2. I meant it - I was not bluffing.

Thank you all. Very sound advice. We are definitely in a new place since D-Day2. Love the idea of a post-nup and, yes, he will have to do the work. I have mentioned D and he stood at attention. I left the house after DDay 1, but came back after he completed a task I required. However, I woke up this morning thinking of leaving again. I simply don't trust him.

And you should not trust him. It takes years of consistent behavior to regain some level of that trust, and blind trust is gone forever.

Use that anger, and clarity you are having to help you make some progress on your own well being.
Call your Dr, get that appt scheduled. This shit is horribly traumatic, and often impacts our health in more ways than we realize, so get the physical, get the STD tests, get the referral for trauma therapist, and if you are struggling with sleeping and eating let your Dr know. These are keys that you are in fight/flight mode, and may benefit from medications to help switch that trigger off.

Call around and get an appt w/ an attorney, find out your rights, his obligations, and what a post-nup would look like, and if it's even enforceable in your area.

Check out the healing library, upper left side of screen, check out the I can relate forum, pretty sure there is a thread there for your situation.

((((And Strength)))

You seem to be aware of this already, but you don't have the complete truth; it's safe to assume that your husband has been seeing prostitutes, strippers, etc, for an extended period of time. The truth doesn't need to be admitted or forensically proven to be true.

You didn't respond to my post on your last thread, so I've copied the list of practical advice I gave you at the end of my comment below. But even if you ignore everything else on that list, please don't ignore this: stop having sex with him (for at least the next 6 months) for the following reasons:

(1) He was and likely is putting you at risk of STDs.

(2) Depending on the laws in your state, having sex with him counts as forgiving or condoning the affair, which means you couldn't use adultery as grounds for divorce. In your case, adultery would be a piece of cake to prove because he was charged with solicitation.

(3) All those bonding hormones that flood your brain during and after sex can completely cloud your judgement and distort your perceptions.

Also, be very skeptical of applying the "sex addict" label to your husband; it's tempting to accept it because it's much easier to cope with your husband having an illness than it is to deal with the fact that he no morals, doesn't care about anyone but himself, and considers women as objects to be used for his comfort and pleasure.

Even though there are lots of doctors running around with so-called sex addiction therapy certifications, it's not included in the latest edition of psychiatric diagnostic manual (the DSM V), which insurance companies use to determine which mental disorders are legitimate and hence eligible for treatment reimbursement. There is a lot of debate in the psychiatric community about whether sex addiction exists, and if it does, whether it qualifies as its own, distinct disorder or whether it's one of many possible symptoms of other psychiatric conditions and/or personality disorders.

In short, don't get suckered into investing lots of money and faith into dubious sex addiction therapy and treatment programs that are not based on any medical consensus and for which there is very little proof of effectiveness or clinical benefit.

Please know that we are here for support. We're strangers on the Internet; we don't expect newly betrayed spouses to automatically take our word over the word of their husbands. You're not a sucker for believing him and giving him the benefit of the double.

But now that you are starting to realize that the extent of his betrayal is far worse than you thought, you need to make decisions based on the reality of your situation right now... not what you wish it was and not what you hope it could be.

As mentioned earlier, here is the practical advice from my comment in your previous thread:

-Get tested for STDs now and every 6 months thereafter for as long as you're still with him.

-Demand your husband get tested for STDs and submit to full drug testing panel. Hookers and drugs tend to go together.

-Stop having sex with him for at least the next 6 months.

-Run credit checks on yourself and your husband.

-If you can afford it, hire a forensic accountant to scour your financial records and history and uncover any hidden accounts and suspicious financial activity.

-Get his devices (phones, computers, iPads, etc) to an IT specialist who can dig up his complete browsing and call history and recover any deleted messages and files.

-Talk to a lawyer and find out what you could reasonably expect if you filed for divorce and if there are any things that you need to do to protect yourself, given that your husband has been arrested for a crime.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:22 PM, Thursday, August 4th]

Shock -
How are you doing now that you have had some time to sit w/ the additional information?

Hello Shock, so sorry this is your new reality. I'm 6 months ahead of you, and no longer dizzy from the damaging cyclone of finding out, though it's a helluva deal to accept that you've given your life to a cheater. We, too, are well past the 30 year mark. I no longer freak out each morning upon waking, nor don't cry myself to sleep. I'm better and our day-to-day marriage is better, but far from healed. The one thing that has brought me some peace, (and power), is having the post nuptial agreement signed and sealed. I know this has already been suggested, but I thought it was worth a second mention. Ours is simple and outlines the financial split upon divorce, regardless of the reason or fault or who files. I don't have to prove or justify anything. I can just walk away. And he can, too, if that's what he needs.

(((Hugs)))

TSOB, so sorry you are here again. Please protect yourself! See a lawyer, and plan an exit strategy. To be used if needed. Seems like you're reaching for R, but please have a back up plan. Don't have sex with him. And, I highly recommend a forensic deep dive into ALL your finances. Your WH engages with prostitutes - put himself into a dangerous enough situation where he was arrested. Which suggests he's used to risky business. He admits to being scammed??? Three times??? Maybe...... or just a handy explanation. Remember that old saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." Getting scammed three times feels off.

Strip clubs. Lap dances. Porn. Prostitutes. I'm so sorry, and angry on your behalf. All of this requires $$$. Maybe lots of $$$. And what exactly does "porn on and off" mean? If the porn involved interacting with webcam "providers" then yes, lots of money could have been spent. Credit card info will be crucial to understand the scope of what you're dealing with. Webcam/porn charges can appear innocuous on activity records, so dig deep with a skeptical eye. Any large cash withdrawals on a regular basis that don't make sense? Run credit checks on you and your husband to see if there's hidden credit cards or checking. If you can afford it, pay for a forensic accountant.

The financial infidelity is a big concern, but his choices and VALUES that he kept hidden from you is the overarching concern. He kept going back for more, and escalated his behaviors so apparently wasn't bothered by ethical choices inherent in sex trade participation. He felt entitled to those lap dances and blow jobs. Shock, he has a lot of work to do to become a better man, let alone a safe partner for you.

Our therapist had us at a place of trust and vulnerability my WH promised I knew the truths.

Another way to take care of yourself right now (protect yourself!) is to forego marriage counseling with the man who betrayed and lied to you. Repeatedly. Doing trust exercises with a trickle truth liar is not what you need right now, IMO. You are vulnerable. You need support.

HE should be in individual counseling with an IC that calls him out on any baloney. And YOU need a separate therapist trained in trauma. Just for you. Because what you are experiencing is trauma, make no mistake. Trickle truth is BRUTAL. Marriage Counseling is to help the marriage. It's not the marriage that's broken here. He is the broken one. And liars lie, which is not exactly a productive approach to therapy. Doesn't surprise me that he lied to the therapist on top of lying to you.

Have you shared your situation with a few friends or family who love you? Don't hesitate to reach out to select friends or family right now. Yes, the awful truth will be exposed with these trusted members of your tribe. Remember, you are NOT responsible for any of this. It was his choice to hire prostitutes, buy lap dances in strip joints and engage with online porn. Please don't blame yourself for any of this, and don't isolate yourself in this hell he created just to protect his image. You need your tribe around you right now.

Also, be very skeptical of applying the "sex addict" label to your husband; it's tempting to accept it because it's much easier to cope with your husband having an illness than it is to deal with the fact that he no morals, doesn't care about anyone but himself, and considers women as objects to be used for his comfort and pleasure.

This! A lot of sexual entitlement is mis-labeled sex addiction, IMO. Please checkout Dr. Minwalla's research on this subject. Search for minwallamodel and links for his model/sexual basement white paper will pop up. He uses the metaphor of a hidden sexual basement to describe the traumatic injury deceptive sexuality (infidelity) inflicts on the partner.

In short, don't get suckered into investing lots of money and faith into dubious sex addiction therapy and treatment programs that are not based on any medical consensus and for which there is very little proof of effectiveness or clinical benefit.

Agreed, BluerThanBlue. TSOB, forewarned is forearmed. This is my two cents - the opinion of a stranger on the internet. Which you are welcome to take or leave. If the term Sex Addiction is bandied about by therapists please do your due diligence and research before buying into that label.

Again, so sorry you're here. Repeat liars suck. They see the damage and trauma they inflicted on their distraught partner right in front of their nose but they are willing to lie about it - again and again. Which takes a certain mindset. And engaging in the sex trade also takes a certain mindset - women are objects to be used. Prostitutes, strip clubs and porn is one deep, dark sexual basement he kept hidden from you. Without the police sting would that basement still be hidden? Please - protect yourself, protect yourself, protect yourself!

ETA:

Wondering about that arrest. If this happened to me, I'd want to know ALL the particulars about how this went down. Have you seen the actual arrest record? If not, don't blindly trust what he tells you. Not sure how you can access this legal information if it hasn't been shared. Hence the recommendation to talk to a lawyer about what ifs AND how to deal with your WH's criminal record (yes criminal record) if necessary.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:50 PM, Sunday, August 7th]

I've endured 11 months of trickle-truth and it has absolutely destroyed me. I am so sorry you're going through this.

The support from this site is invaluable and I so appreciate all of you who have offered support and understanding and advise and words I didn't want to hear. This all just hurts to the core. Porn and strip clubs have been going on at least 3 years. Attempts to meet prostitutes started in January with supposedly only the two successful encounters with oral sex.

1. WH has gotten STD tested and is negative. He will need to retest in 3-4 months and again in 7-9.
2. WH has started with an IC who is certified in Sex Addiction and Trauma Therapy. I read all your posts about Sex Addiction not being a DSM Dx and about watching out for programs that may be rip offs (I've even come across a few I think I have identified.)
3. I have started with an IC and have an appointment scheduled with another who supposedly has tremendous experience with Betrayal Trauma.
4. We are continuing to see the MC, but I have brought up whether this is wise as per your posts and will evaluate if it's prudent as well as discuss this with my IC. It may be too soon. I am so confused by the need to pull away and the counseling once again building trust. We are more connected than we've been in years, which is very confusing.

WH crossed the line, rationalized it as "OK" because he paying for it (strip clubs.) Then crossed his own line understanding the prostitute was cheating and did it anyway. Arrested...now he's risked his professional reputation as well. Who is this man? Does he have any morals at all?

5. I have all his PWs to all devices, financial sites, credit cards, car, etc. Including websites and private/incognito. I have not brought them to a forensic IT guy yet (very expensive) but have spoken about my options there.
6. Still waiting for another TT to unfold. AGAIN claims I know everything. He is contrite and saying over and over how he is sorry he is the one who caused all my pain. He is not making me wrong or blaming me or our circumstance. I can see his pain.
6. Terrified to call a lawyer. How do I find one? How do I know if they are good? I am not close with women I know who have been divorced. Do I open up and ask them who they used?

Thank you all again. While I have told my brother and 1 friend (and so appreciate the love and support from them and the others who I have only shared a half truth of the situation) this site is the only place where I don't feel so alone.

I am sorry any of us is here.

Glad he got tested.
But you HAVE to be tested for any and all as well. Men aren't tested for one 9f the most destructive STDs and that HPV known to cause cancers of both genitals, uterus, and even worse mouth and throat. Plus if he wasn't tested for HIV or Hepatitis you definitely need to be.

You must protect yourself.

Glad you found someone who works in betrayal trauma. Its a bitch and healing from it in a healthy way is vital.