SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After my EXWW affair I was 100% convinced that she would never cheat again. It was so out of character, and she saw what it did to me and us, but after reading so many "I’m back again" stories recently makes me question that. I hate to say it, but it reinforces my decision to divorce that it was the right one. I still think it was unlikely, but not having to suffer the pain I am reading here from so many, I’m glad even the slightest possibility was taken off the table.

I really feel for those here "back again" after thinking they thought things were good again

wwtl - I'm one of those people you're referring to, and I can really appreciate your stance. I just read your profile and we have so many similarities, but also some key differences. My wife's affair was quick and done, busted and over within a few weeks. 100% remorseful, but only 99% transparent. Two years later, another hook-up (one-night stand or make out session, we're still not sure), but denied for ten years even though I pretty much knew all along. Fifteen years of tears, and remorse, and lies, and love mixed in, and raising three fantastic kids who have gone from pre-teens to their early 20s.

She's admitted that her lies and denials were because she knew I would leave, and maybe she's right. The silver lining is the kids!

WWTL, probably your ex would have much lower risk of infidelity then any newly found person. Infidelity in your country is through the roof. If you don't mind, something is bothering you so many years after and I'm not sure that you can verbalise it.

I never posted my story, because it is so insignificant compared to others here, but I'm reading, because I found out things about myself.

Due to your way of writing, that makes you sound very strong, you are probably beeing underserved on this forum. It's realy hard to guess, but what is your main hurdle? May I ask if you don't feel confident in not beeing able to forgive your exW?

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 9:12 AM, Friday, December 1st]

But then if you really want to avoid even the "slightest possibility", the only way is to stay single. There is always the "slightest possibility" with a new or future partner IMO. I feel safe with my SO (just as I did with my ex) but now I also acknowledge that I can’t be 100% sure this won’t change.

I agree that some of the "I’m back again" stories are heartbreaking but there are a lot more that says "I would have never thought they would do this in a million years…" and any potential partner can fall into this category.

I don’t know, I guess I think that those who are truly remorseful and making an honest effort to understand their actions and fix themselves (as many FWS on this forum have proved) are actually less likely to cheat again then the average person. I suppose I am no more a "I’m 100%" sure of…" kind of person. Not just for the cheating but for life experiences in general.

Carrera, I wasn’t referring to your story, but it certainly fits in with me observing that there seems to be an influx of the "im back" that are showing up. Yours is heartbreaking.

POE, for me it was first an observation, then mentality moved to my situation. Again, I really don’t think deep down she would have done it again, but to reference Carrera, I don’t think he probably thought it would happen either. I think the site serves me well. I stay here now to try to give back. As to forgiveness, I’m definitely not as angry, but after all this time I don’t think I’m really capable of true forgiveness. I still feel some love for her, but I just can’t get to the next stage. Everyone is different, but for me that would be in my head saying what you did was ok. Others here seem to have forgiven while still separating the act from the person and are clear that they will never condone the act of infidelity , but can forgive the person. I know it’s logical, and I have tried to do it, but I can’t make that jump

La, you are correct that infidelity or other breeches of trust are always a possibility e it a new partner, or a WS. It’s just that for me it would hurt harder if I went thru all the work and got to forgiveness, then only to be burned by that person again. I make mistakes. I just try not to make the same ones. The second instance to me falls into that category. I have a girlfriend now. Age appropriate after being the ridiculous guy with the younger. Eye candy on his arm. I love her, but not the same. If she cheated it just wouldn’t hurt as much. I’m just not as invested and will never be totally all in ever again. I’m happy, but guarded.

My post wasn’t so much to be about me, but rather just a sad observation. I get a serial cheater, but how does the guy or gal after seeing the heartbreak do that again.

Thank you for the explanation. I think there could be several conditions that can help the BS to forgive. For example if they are able to clearly see the difference between the cheater and the corrected "new" person, there were some extreme bad circumstances (that could be me if I didn't catch my hand) or the cheated was a POS themselves.

As for the chance of being cheated on, I sadly have to agree that even someone who is very loving and acts solid like a rock, could betray. For many people pain is the most effective teacher, so I guess a truly remorsful, phycologically fit one-time cheater that otherwise has a long history of high moral standards and is truly honest, could be actually safer than any random person.

WWTL - thanks for sharing. I am in the "can’t believe I am back" group.

It has been extremely difficult for me to wrap my mind around my STB EX WH’s ability to willingly choose the destruction and pain once again. To me, it’s pure stupidity on the part of an otherwise intelligent man. I struggle with how I chose such a stupid person for a partner.

We went through so much reconciling 11 years ago - geez, a lot of hard work. One of my issues is that if someone wants out of a marriage/relationship then do just that. Leave with dignity and respect for both parties, it’s absolutely possible.

I remember though back in the day having the feeling my WH should do some sort of inpatient therapy for his raging addictions. We did do counseling, 12 step and even Retrovuille and I will say I believe he had some long stretches of good times. One therapist said he was building a toothpick bridge if he wasn’t fully doing the work and I think that was a good assessment of what has happened now. He didn’t build a strong foundation to overcome his addictions.

Interestingly, I feel extreme sadness for him. I am getting so much amazing support and he has very little. I am coping as best as I can and I do see a bright future for myself. I won’t be having the life I had imagined, but it will be happy and good.

so I guess a truly remorsful, phycologically fit one-time cheater that otherwise has a long history of high moral standards and is truly honest, could be actually safer than any random person.

I think you are describing a "true unicorn" there……

Speaking for me personally, that is a HUGE "otherwise" in there. A person who deceives their SO and inflicts the most horrible betrayal possible, loses any claim to "totally honesty" and a "history of high moral standards". I know several people of "medium moral standards" who refuse to cheat…..

My WW had multiple affairs. I am in the "found out many years later" club. Which complicates matters. Would I have given her a second chance had I found out about the first one in real time? Possibly. But I would have been burned again in a little over a year…..

Count me in the "safer with a random person" than a "known cheater" club.

I think you are describing a "true unicorn" there……

I don't think so, I think that most people are capable of cheating if all the stars align. For me not all stars aligned, thanks God, but the impulse was there. I think your wife is (was) a unicorn by making it her lifestyle of choice.

WWTL, perhaps I'm being uncharitable toward your ex, but if the cheating was really out of character for her, she would've been so messed up with guilt that she stopped after the first time she had sex with him. Deception is something that only gets easier to do the more you do it, not harder. If you hadn't busted her, she would've continued for who knows how long; after all, she was even trying to get you to invest in his business. The guilt only hit her when she realized she was going to lose everything.

Also, as hard as you tried, you really couldn't get over it and your relationship wasn't the same. Although your ex said she would've been happy remaining married to you under those circumstances, even going so far as to let you have a one-sided open marriage, who knows the toll that would've taken her after 5, 10, or 20 years. Maybe she would've found someone else willing to blow smoke up her ass and you would be right back where you started on Dday, only with more years wasted.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:51 PM, Friday, December 1st]

so I guess a truly remorsful, phycologically fit one-time cheater that otherwise has a long history of high moral standards and is truly honest, could be actually safer than any random person.

I totally agree. I'll go so far as saying that's true for a person who gets themself psychologically fit and remorseful after d-day. I'm fully aware that my W lied to me a lot during her A. I'm also as certain as I can be that she hasn't lied to me since d-day, so I consider her to be 'truly honest'. That's my choice, though. I have no argument with a BS who doesn't to see their WS as honest. Seeing one's WS as honest after d-day is positive for R; seeing one's WS as dishonest is positive for D.

I think you are describing a "true unicorn" there……

How many people who have redeemed themselves do there have to be for them not to be 'true unicorns'?

Remember: the proposition applies primarily to cases in which one's WS fits the 'remorseful, psychologically fit one-time cheater' characterization. If your WS doesn't fit into that class, your sitch doesn't meet the conditions of the proposition.

I'd add that what counts in recovering from infidelity is doing the work needed to heal. Serial cheaters can redeem themselves just as one-time cheaters do - by taking themselves apart and putting themselves back together in a way that they'll pretty much always do a 'next right thing.' That's hard work, and it looks like only a minority of WSes do it, but it's eminently doable.

I'm 100% certain that my W is way less vulnerable to cheating than she was 13 years ago, and I'm equally certain that she retains some vulnerability. I hate it that she might cheat again - but she might. But do not forget this: R requires a lot more than simply not cheating again.

Some of us are willing to forgive our WSes; some of us won't. I don't see any superiority of one approach over the other. The key for BSes is to figure out what the BS wants, then to figure out what's attainable.

No matter what, though, there are no guarantees.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:58 PM, Friday, December 1st]

I don't think so, I think that most people are capable of cheating if all the stars align. For me not all stars aligned, thanks God, but the impulse was there. I think your wife is (was) a unicorn by making it her lifestyle of choice.

"Capable" and "if all the stars align". Maybe so.
Being capable or tempted is a LONG way from "doing it".

Unicorns are magical mythical creatures. IMO, that MUCH more fits a "one time cheater who is totally psychologically fit and otherwise highly moral and truthful" than people who cheat multiple times or make a lifestyle choice to be a serial cheater. This site is full of examples. Not "magical or mythical". Pretty "common" unfortunately.

I too had MANY opportunities to cheat. It had nothing to do with stars not aligning. Everything to do with my morals preventing it.

How many people who have redeemed themselves do there have to be for them not to be 'true unicorns'?

Remember: the proposition applies primarily to cases in which one's WS fits the 'remorseful, psychologically fit one-time cheater' characterization. If your WS doesn't fit into that class, your sitch doesn't meet the conditions of the proposition.

I didn’t say no one can be redeemed and that anyone who is then is a “true unicorn”. I was applying ALL of the criteria listed in the statement which are a ton of boxes to check.

My biggest issue is with the part you left out in your "remember statement". "….otherwise has a long history of high moral standards and is truly honest"

I just don’t believe "a history of high moral standards" is conducive to cheating. Even once. Cheaters are liars. Can they change that? Of course….

And what is the definition of "one-time cheater"? A “true ONS” with a stranger? One affair? How long then? EA/PA or does it matter? "Only one intercourse"? How is that verified? There is a thread here in General (cheating sister) where everyone is telling OP that “one time is a lie straight out of the cheater’s handbook”.

I know a man who’s wife only had one affair. It lasted 35 years and resulted in 2 AP children.

I don’t think redemption in and of itself is a Unicorn. Anyone can achieve redemption. A "remorseful, psychologically fit, one-time cheater (however we define that) who ALSO (other than the pesky cheating) has a long history of high moral standards and is truly honest" (that’s a LOT of qualifiers) sounds pretty rare. JMO

Anyone (even my serial cheater wife) can be redeemed. I just don’t see many fitting into this particular description. Hence the "Unicorn" comment.

[This message edited by ImaChump at 7:15 PM, Friday, December 1st]

I have a girlfriend now. Age appropriate after being the ridiculous guy with the younger. Eye candy on his arm. I love her, but not the same. If she cheated it just wouldn’t hurt as much. I’m just not as invested and will never be totally all in ever again. I’m happy, but guarded.

Man, that describes me to a T. No longer do I have the ability to invest in a relationship with reckless abandon.

On a side note, I wonder if anyone has applied game theory to cheating? I don't mean the prisoners dilemma, but from the BS's perspective.

WWTL,

I hit the gym after I was cheated on just like you did and I left my WW a few years later as well.

She saw it coming as I replaced man boobs with a six-pack. I’m still working out in my mid50’s.

As pointed out here already, the only way to avoid getting cheated on is to not have any further relationships and that’s the route I’ve taken. Sort of MGTOW now as most of the philosophy there has proven true….at least to me anyway.

But I don’t live like a monk either. My solution is to find couples looking for an extra Dude. It’s easy on the internet….there’s way more couples like that than you’d think! So I have some FWBs couples and no baggage of worries with the woman. Win-win for me!

I know this isn’t for everybody but I wish I knew then what I know now! I am free and having the time of my life! True story

…after reading so many "I’m back again" stories recently makes me question that. I hate to say it, but it reinforces my decision to divorce that it was the right one.

This is just confirmation bias. We naturally seek, interpret, and remember information that confirms our existing beliefs. Obviously people don’t tend to stumble on this site in order to tell us that their marriage is great after their spouse cheated on them 20 years ago and they decided to R. People are more likely to post when things are not good and they have not healed. We are way more likely to report a bad experience than a fine or even a good one.

It’s also a form of post-purchase rationalization/choice-supportive bias. Leaving your spouse was a MAJOR life decision, and regardless of whether it was the right or the wrong decision to make, it obviously involved pros/cons. Once you make the decision, it makes sense to ignore/downplay any downsides of the decision to leave, while amplifying or identifying faults with the decision to leave, because our brains struggle with the uncertainty. People on the other side of the R/D fence do it too. It’s your ego’s way of convincing yourself that you’ve made the right choice. The reality is however, that a story on the internet of some BS whose spouse cheated again, doesn’t make YOUR decision to leave your marriage any more right/wrong.

I doubt you intended it that way, but it also sounds a bit like saying "I told you so…" to someone who is in pain.

I have a girlfriend now. Age appropriate after being the ridiculous guy with the younger. Eye candy on his arm. I love her, but not the same. If she cheated it just wouldn’t hurt as much. I’m just not as invested and will never be totally all in ever again. I’m happy, but guarded.

No longer do I have the ability to invest in a relationship with reckless abandon.

As pointed out here already, the only way to avoid getting cheated on is to not have any further relationships and that’s the route I’ve taken.

This is going to rub some people the wrong way, but for all the talk about how it is weak to stay, and the only "strong" thing to do following infidelity, is to divorce, this just seems so sad to me.

You can decide to R or D from a place of strength, or a place of fear. You may have been brave in not willing to put up with anything less than what you deserve in your past relationship, the way you are conducting yourself going forward, makes it sounds like it’s coming from a place of fear. You’re limiting your current/future happiness/fulfillment and capacity for love because you are afraid of being vulnerable.

Yes, there are plenty of people who stay and claim they are trying to R (without actually asserting their boundaries) because they are codependent or stuck for logistical/financial reasons, or are more scared of leaving, then they are of being alone. But that’s not everyone in R. There are others who were fully aware of the risk of repeat, and yet were able to get to a place of vulnerability with their spouse. To me, that is brave and requires enormous strength. And yes, the "I’m back" stories can show us that even when some of them offer vulnerability and bravery, they can still get burned. Any of us can. We know that. We have all experienced that….but jesus christ, I'm not going to take my ball and go home. I'm not going to settle for anything less than what I want/deserve in life and in love because I'm afraid of being cheated on again. I've dealt with infidelity once, I know I can do it again if it comes to that. You guys can too. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take, right? You can’t win the trophy if you refuse to get back onto the field.

(Endnote: I will gladly accept the prize for the most cliche sports sayings in one SI post, if such a thing exists. )

I was one who was back again and I knew immediately upon False R that I no longer wanted to be in the M. My fear of D kept me there another 5 years. I'm not sure if I am the type of person who can R. It is very hard for me to work out resentment and grudges once someone has deeply betrayed me. My xWS wasn't a good person. He was a serial cheater and a narcissist so his cheating just opened my eyes to all his flaws and disorders.

I don't know how I would feel if my new partner cheated. I'm not sure if I'd have the same reaction as I did with xWS. I know it's a possibility he could cheat on me too in the future, but I like the trust I have with him over how broken it was in my M. Like a clean slate, once that slate is cracked I can't really view the person the same again.

I doubt you intended it that way, but it also sounds a bit like saying "I told you so…" to someone who is in pain.

You are right, I didn’t intend to say I told you so, and it feels from the responses here of those that have been through this didn’t it that way either. I was acknowledging their pain rather than what you have alluded to that the BS should buck up and get back on the horse.

This is going to rub some people the wrong way, but for all the talk about how it is weak to stay, and the only "strong" thing to do following infidelity, is to divorce, this just seems so sad to me.

I have no fricking clue where this is coming from. We all need to follow our own past. Where have you gotten that I consider anyone who has stayed as weak. I just commented on Old Wounds post and have been pretty consistent in how much I have admired his journey. The insinuation that those who divorce are weak smacks of the same justification to reinforce our decisions as you have accused of here. I’m glad you were able to reconcile, but those of us who have taken another path should not be deemed weak

I'm not going to take my ball and go home. I'm not going to settle for anything less than what I want/deserve in life and in love because I'm afraid of being cheated on again. I've dealt with infidelity once, I know I can do it again if it comes to that. You guys can too. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take, right? You can’t win the trophy if you refuse to get back onto the field.

(Endnote: I will gladly accept the prize for the most cliche sports sayings in one SI post, if such a thing exists. laugh )

Thanks for the pep talk coach.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 9:40 PM, Friday, December 1st]

After my EXWW affair I was 100% convinced that she would never cheat again. It was so out of character, and she saw what it did to me and us, but after reading so many "I’m back again" stories recently makes me question that.

These topics have always intrigued me. I would say that I wouldn't expect my wife to cheat again, but if she did, would I be gobsmacked? I doubt it.

so I guess a truly remorsful, phycologically fit one-time cheater that otherwise has a long history of high moral standards and is truly honest, could be actually safer than any random person.

Also very interesting. The above would seem to make sense, but along a similar vein(addiction), would a recovering gambler who was 20 years sober be a better bet than someone who has never had a gambling addiction? I used gambling as there isn't a chemical factor like alcohol or narcotics....although my wife is a recovering alcoholic. And while I don't believe that she will drink again(10+ years sober) I sure as hell think her chances to drink again are far heavier than mine, as I have never suffered that addiction.

But then I'll flip-flop. I remember in my early days here, there was a member/moderator Metamorphisis. There was an active thread in the Wayward Forum, something about remorse. It wasn't her thread, she was just commenting on it as a member(she's a former wayward). She said that when a wayward really finds remorse, they GET IT. I don't know why....maybe it was the flow of that thread, but damn, that really registered with me. I have never met this person, yet I have the belief like the above quote. I believe her chances of cheating again are less than many who have never cheated, but haven't had their morals/boundaries fully tested. How can't that life experience not help someone who put in so much effort to find out where they went astray?

jb3199 thank you for sharing your thoughts. I don't have any statistical data, but, the infidelity stories that I know from real life have mostly the thing in common that the people that commited them where oblivios to the repercussions, acted out situations in there lifes out of lack of midfulness that their learned afterwards. Mostly separated, but now very mindfull of their boundaries in new relstionships. Probably the people that land on this forum and stay here are the coplicated/severe ones. For example I didn't betray the best person in the world. I cought myself. For my wife I'm a weirdly stable/funny/hot/infinitly loving person. But the there is something unhinged (not even sexual) underneth my skin which I will never act upon and that is my goal.

Tldr;average cases don't post on forums like this.

Edit: I'm usually not unhinged in the direction of destroying the best thing in my life. That was an episode under very severe consitions (terrible ilnesses, terrible death, covid, war, debt in my company, special kid, every broken person relying On me, etc.)

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 2:07 AM, Sunday, December 3rd]