SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My story is on my page so, I’ll try to keep this brief.

Why do WP trickle truth so much? Do they honestly think that not talking is the best route to go down after they commit the ultimate betrayal? They think it will only hurt you more?

I’m trying to explain to my xWP that it’s not even what you did that’s hurting me the most, it’s the constant lying and trickle truths and the way he’s behaved after that’s hurting me more.

I have given him 12 years of my life and I think I deserve to know everything that’s happened or going on. It’s not 5 minutes of my life! I’ve never let him down or betrayed him ever and never would.

I know that sometimes where I am so frustrated I do not communicate in the best way and I can tend to lose my temper not in an aggressive way but, total despair I suppose and this causes him to shut down even further and not talk.

His EA started in may (so he says) and lasted 2 months before I found out. And then it turned physical 2 days after he left me (apparently) He’s admitted to me on Sunday that he hasn’t loved me for 6 months. But never said a word or acted any differently to me. I know this is a justification for why he cheated but, not the real reason. He’s said he knows there’s something broken in him but, he seems to refuse to investigate it, out of fear or cowardice I do not know?

I don’t know if this was an exit affair or not. He definitely wasn’t trying to get caught and he’s not with her either. When I found out he was crying his eyes out saying he would be absolutely distraught if we split up yet, he easily left me after I said I’d forgive him and he doesn’t seem distraught at all. And he was still telling me that he loved me up until about a week before he left me. He didn’t say he didn’t love me anymore when we split he said it was the physical side for him was gone and too far gone to come back… a week after the split is when he said I do love you but, not like that anymore. So he didn’t say he didn’t love me until AFTER he had slept with her… what the hell is that all about? He was normal and warm with me one minute and then at a drop of a hat he was cold and distant towards me, like he never loved me at all. I don’t understand it really. He is very avoidant of conflict and talking about what he’s done in general. Finding it so frustrating.. we still live together as we own the place together. I’m sure there’s more details I could add but, my brain is scrambled at the moment.

[This message edited by lostandconfused90 at 7:57 AM, Tuesday, October 10th]

My theory on this is simple. The cheater is not unhappy in their marriage or relationship until they meet the OM/OW.

Then they dredge up every justification to start an affair.

They don’t love you or ILYBNILWY (I love you but not in love with you)

They are "unhappy"

They are upset about something from 20 years ago and just decided to bring it up now (justifying the affair)

IMO it’s not the affair that kills it. It’s the behavior after the affair that does the most damage.

Read up on the 180. It will help you tremendously.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:04 AM, Tuesday, October 10th]

I have read on here for years. I was cheated on very early in our marriage but had small kiddies, no job and no family that could help. I was on my own if I left and no way to be financially secure so I kept my mouth shut. He grew up, so did I and that is when I confronted him. It was a ONS and could have been more but I left it alone and we moved on. I never saw a change in him so if he was ever in an affair I never knew it. I write this because my issues were immaturities that resolved themselves. I often think I need to back off from giving suggestions because that was years ago and a small ripple on my pond. Then I realized my education/job gave me the tools to help.

If you read back as far as you can you will see that this behavior of his will certainly make you ill if you continue to live with him. Stress can kill. Please make sure you look at your marriage with very clear vision. When you say he will not engage in conversations about anything stressful you might consider this a power thing. Malignant silence is a control issue. If this has been there the whole of your marriage he has made sure he has the power. That is just a suggestion because we do not know your daily lives. He has found a woman who knows how to get what she wants.

Because she wrote things about you that do not appear to be true it means he has been badmouthing you to her. That makes him a bad person. He should never talk about you that way. Issues can be brought up with a therapist but not a co-worker.

Are you sure you want to be married to him? I think it is time for you to look at how you have felt around him. If you walk on eggshells, if you keep a knot in your stomach he has controlled you for years. The fact you could not tell him about your pregnancy or depression is very telling.

I am so sorry a person who should love you acts like this. If he has moved on so should you. His life is not going to get better. He takes himself wherever he goes.

1stwife nailed it, and it's stronger than just a theory.

Dr. Frank Pittman (I believe, it's been a number of years since I've studied this) found that in a large number of divorces (something like 2/3 of the time), inevitably, another man/woman pops out of the woodwork with one of the spouses within like 2 weeks of separating. His opinion was that "exit affairs" in something like 90+% of cases was bullshit.

The reason your wayward partner feels unhappy in the relationship? He needs to be, in order to justify his actions and choices. Otherwise he would be a scumbag for betraying his partner and family. Because he can't deal with that part of himself, he needs to lie to himself and find every rationalisation possible in order to justify his actions while still maintaining that he is a good man. Again - it's bullshit, but he desperately needs to believe it. It's the same reason why you get trickle truth, lies, and avoidance - he's hiding from himself, because he can't be the villain in his own story.

As for the affair not going physical until two days after he left - likely bullshit, but it could be true. It doesn't matter though because the intent to have an affair, to romantically attach to another person and for that relationship to go physical was there. It didn't just happen. It was a series of choices made.

Also know that the affair is not your fault. Your WP fell in love with a fantasy, while you were here dealing with reality. Truly, something is missing within him that he felt a need for external validation instead of validation from within and emotional intimacy in his relationships. Rose coloured glasses and all that. Don't compare yourself to the other person, because the other person is a lie that your WP is using to paint over their vision of themselves and to medicate over their internal failings.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Do read up on the 180 in the Healing Library articles - it's truly a life save to help you regain control of your life and to focus on your own wellbeing and self respect. Consult a doctor/counselor as needed as you're a prime candidate for depression. Monitor your diet, exercise, and sleep. Focus on the choices you can make moving forward to understand what your needs are, how to protect what is important to you, and how to get the most out of the loving relationships that you have in your life.

It's tough, but with time and effort you can get through this, you can heal, and you can move forward to a brighter, happier, and more sustainable future. You deserve better than this. And as a fully conscious, empowered individual, you do possess the capacity to rise above. It's just going to take some time and work - be patient with yourself, and keep faith in yourself.

You're gonna be okay.

[This message edited by SerJR at 1:23 PM, Tuesday, October 10th]

Why do WP trickle truth so much? Do they honestly think that not talking is the best route to go down after they commit the ultimate betrayal? They think it will only hurt you more?

I’m trying to explain to my xWP that it’s not even what you did that’s hurting me the most, it’s the constant lying and trickle truths and the way he’s behaved after that’s hurting me more.

Nobody really wants to be called out on their lies over and over. Nobody wants to confront the shittiest thing they ever did (that you know of). If he can ride out the storm until (he believes) things settle down…

What are the consequences if he keeps trickle truthing? What are you doing with your actions demonstrate he is pushing you away?

My WH acted much the same even though circumstances were different (4-5 month PA with a married co-worker (she was married to a good friend of his that also worked with he and the AP) that turned into an EA as well, then caught, lied about it being over and wanting to work on thing with me and continued the A for another year, then caught again, stopped A for 3 months, claimed he wanted to work things out with me but I wasn't sure I wanted to work things out with him. He went back again for 2 months, caught, I blew the whole thing sky high to anyone and everyone and the A imploded. We were in in-house separation for over a year and I left, bought a place and we date now but are no longer married).

It sounds like your WS doesn't know if this is an exit affair or not - but I'm guessing it wasn't. Your WS met someone/developed an attraction to someone and all of the rest of this has followed.

Why do WP trickle truth so much? Do they honestly think that not talking is the best route to go down after they commit the ultimate betrayal? They think it will only hurt you more?

When my WH was caught by me the first time, he told me he was NOT in love with AP and that it was purely physical for him, but that it was an EA for her. That was a lie. He now admits that at that time - the 4-5 month mark - he was fully smitten with her, thought he was in love with her, that they were going to run off into the sunset together, and that he had fabricated all kinds of things about me/us and in his words was "nitpicking" me to death to justify his behavior. This went on for years, in his head, even after he was caught the first time, all through the year of false-R and again after he was caught the second time. So the question for me on d-day 2 after a year of false R, was WHY LIE? Why not leave me?

His responses now (which I believe) are as follows, in no particular order (and yes, they are extremely contradictory):

1) It would only hurt me more to tell me that he was in love with someone else - that minimizing how he felt was a kindness and there was no point in "hurting TISL more" when he was going to leave me anyway - or he was pretty sure he was going to leave me anyway.
2) That he wasn't sure all the time that he wanted to leave and telling me the truth would likely cause me to leave him.
3) That maybe I would leave him on my own and then we wouldn't have to deal with all this unpleasantness.
4) That talking about any of this stuff out loud was embarrassing and disgusting - that he was filled with shame about it and it was too much for him to admit to out loud
5) That he had minimized some of the things he had done and having to say them out loud made it clear they were far "bigger" deceits than he allowed himself to think about
6) He saw himself as a "good person" who was just "trapped" in a bad situation (our relationship and a relationship with one of his best friend's wives) and he shouldn't have to work though all of this with anyone as it was so hard for him already
7) He thought he hated me at times for catching him and for still being around and he had no interest in helping me "feel better"
8) He did not believe I could possibly want to know these things and I was mining him for information just to humiliate and shame him and so I could "hold it over his head" forever
9) He loved me and did not want to hurt me and hated himself for doing so

In other words - there was a whole pile of shit floating around in his head - justifications for everything or just avoidance.

I have NO idea what will happen with your WS. I would have never in a million years guessed that after almost 2 years of an A, where my WH thought he was madly in love with his AP and wanted to leave our relationship of almost 15 years behind for someone he had not spent a whole single day with on their own, that we would be working on our friendship, dating, and that WH wants to R...and that I am the one who isn't sure. Life is nutty that way - you simply cannot know what will happen.

BUT, the pick me dance rarely works (I say rarely only as never is a very strong word). And this is the hard part - you need to focus on you right now.

Thank you all for your responses they are much appreciated.

He is adamant he hasn’t bad mouthed me to her and never would, how true that is I’ll never know really.

I guess I felt unable to be truthful with him about my mental health for a few reasons;

1) I didn’t even want to admit it to myself let alone anyone else so, I but on an act and hid it extremely well & I mean extremely.

2) I was trying to protect him from it in a way.

3) I felt like no one would understand and also that his emotional intimacy wasn’t up to scratch.

He has never been controlling or abusive to me in any way. Until now, where is is trying to control the conversations not happening.

6 months means from march time he’s not loved me, I had found a message from one of his other work friends asking if he and AP were going to find another dark corner soon and that was dated 1st march. So, in his eyes he believes his A did not start until may which is when he started the EA messaging her. However, I believe it must have truly began in march which is clearly when the boundaries started to be crossed, not saying he was deep in the A at this point but, this is probably when it started to lead down that road whether he realised it or not. So, in my head I’m thinking of course you’re not going to love me when you’re doing such things and crossing those boundaries and justifying to yourself it’s harmless or whatever else was going through his head at the time.

He has said there’s something in him that’s broken however, I’m not sure he’s even began the work to try and figure this out.

I am currently at my mums house so, I’m not technically living there at the moment and yes, it did make me ill.

I have however started to get the appropriate help that I needed all along and am well on my way to recovery with the depression side of things.

He is adamant he doesn’t have any feelings for her at all and never did. He says she was not worth it ultimately. However, I do realise he could just be telling me what he thinks I want to hear.

He says I expect too much of him when I try to talk things through which just makes me laugh to be honest because, I feel like he expects too little from himself. I know it’s hard to have to face yourself and the terrible things to have done but, we all have to do it. By not doing it there will never be any growth. But, I know I can’t force him into introspection it has to be his choice.

We aren’t married and we don’t have any children however we have been together for 12 years since we were 21 & 22. We never used to argue at all really which, we always viewed as such a good thing but, in hindsight we have both said it’s not good at all.. conflicts need to be aired and I know he has held some resentment towards me and he says he knows they are petty things such us, had to borrow money from him a lot this year as I have been off work due to my mental health, I have been overspending but that was another sign of my depression and I’d never usually be so careless, he felt like he did majority of the house work which I admit he did but, he never once made it know it was stressing him out that much, I do 100% of the cooking, from scratch 90% of the time, I arrange all of the shopping and collect it and I’m the one who plans out all the meals and his lunches for work etc so, it’s not like I did nothing at all. I did clean just not as much as he did. It does sound petty but at the same time I’ve said if it’s hurt you then it’s hurt you as he said he felt unappreciated and not valued and that I just left mess for him on purpose which I’ve explained isn’t the case. I’m currently being assessed for ADHD also and I’ve tried to explain to him sometimes I truly don’t even see something needs to be done or I just get really overwhelmed facing so many tasks that need doing, I’m not saying it’s an excuse just trying to help him understand it’s never been done from a lazy or selfish place. They seem small but once they start building up and neither person airs their grievances then they start to fester. There were other things he built resentment up for and I for him also.

I am aware we are both conflict avoidant in our own ways and I am doing my best to be more self aware and fix my own issues, I just don’t understand why he won’t.

I haven’t once tried to compare myself to his AP as I know there is absolutely NO comparison. Not that I am an oil painting but, I know I am much more attractive than that. But, mostly personality… I am a big hearted person, very understanding and forgiving possibly too much. But, I’m also very loyal, dependable and supportive. I wouldn’t ever go after another woman’s man because, I don’t hate myself and yes I do have low self esteem but not THAT low. She obviously is a very unhappy, lonely and selfish person and in a way I feel pity for her. What a sad life.

When I spoke with her on the phone she pretended she didn’t know we had been together as long as we had and I know this was a lie. She also said he didn’t really mention me and couldn’t say why she thought it was ok for her to be sending those kind of messages to a man that clearly wasn’t single… her excuse? "I was single and bored " wow!! She had absolutely no remorse and if I were standing in front of her she would have been grinning like the Cheshire Cat!

So if that’s who he would rather chose let him, because I am a much better person than that and he doesn’t really deserve me does he.

I will look up about the 180
Thank you.

The A in my situation started in 2017, d-day 2 was in 2018 and d-day 3 was in 2019. I moved out at the beginning of 2021 (had plans to sooner but COVID messed that up). My WH did not start IC for himself until mid-2019 and I don't think he really "got" how much he needed it for at least 6 months after that. He still goes now, but instead of 1 time per week. like he did for almost 3 years, he goes 1 time per month. He is much different and we can have the hard conversations about the A (or anything) with a lot less conflict avoidance, shame, guilt, anger - in other words our conversations are now what I would deem "normal", based on solid reality, and much more productive.

Your WP is not there yet and may never get there. Until he sees the problem within himself he will likely continue to spin his wheels forever, which many people do. So I'm glad you have moved out and away from him as no matter what happens with him, you need to take care of you!

It's because they're cowards.

If this is how he's responding,you can't attempt reconciliation with him.

Hellfire,

He doesn’t want to attempt R anyway.

I thought he did at first but, it was false R clearly as two weeks in he started talking to her again, changed her name in his phone and muted the chat with her on WhatsApp and he can’t or won’t say why he did it. So it was all false.

If he’s saying he doesn’t love me anymore and hasn’t for half of a year then that’s it really.

They are cowards. And looking deeply at their own flaws is not fun and light and easy. But chasing unicorn farts and rainbows is …so often that is what they do. It’s not about love. It’s about their fear of realizing they are POS and have treated the people they care about the most so horribly. Much much easier to pretend they were unhappy and go off chasing unicorns. They just don’t have it in them to do the work and face reality.

I am so sorry you are going through this.

HouseOfPlane,

I do understand it must be horrible to be constantly reminded of what you’ve done when you know it’s awful however, in my mind that’s a him issue really. If you don’t want to be called out don’t do shitty things.

I’m not sure he will ever sit down and have an honest talk with me. All he does is ask for time, time, time and then the time never comes so, I end up stressed and frustrated and all hell breaks loose and then he wonders why I’ve exploded?

He actually turned around and said to me the other day that I expect too much of him? Not really, I just expect you to do the right and honest thing but, I suppose that is expecting too much from someone who would do such a thing to me after all of this time. I think he expects too little from himself actually.

Im actually really embarrassed because, over the years I’d smugly say he wouldn’t ever cheat on me because he was so anti cheating

He says when I explode or, decide that we have to talk about things at that very moment and it’s all on my terms basically that it doesn’t exactly endear him to share his thoughts and realisations… this was said after I read out an email I’d written to send to his school about what they’d been doing (I wasn’t ever going to send it, I just wanted to show him what the consequences really could be - I know this wasn’t the best thing I could have done but, I was at the end of my rope!)

I’m not sure if I’d mentioned this but, our beloved dog of 11 years had to be put to sleep 2 weeks ago literally the day after I’d come out of hospital, we are both absolutely distraught he was our family and we loved the bones of him and I did turn around and say he is nothing to do with him, I didn’t want him paying towards his cremation and he certainly wasn’t having any of his things, I know I said these things on purpose to hurt him and it wasn’t right I feel awful about it because, I know it isn’t the truth and I’m not this sort of person to be so vindictive and don’t want to let his actions or inactions tuen me into one!!

he looked at me with pure hatred that night and I’ve never seen him look at me in such a way, it hurt. It was the fact the day before I’d said to him you have gotten off with no consequences and he said "No, I haven’t - there have been consequences" I said go on…. "I’m going to lose my family home" is that it? Wonderful!

He is saying he is tired of the emotional rollercoaster (that he mostly caused ) and I am too, I’m tired emotionally 24/7! He is saying so much has happened since this all began that it feels like a lifetime ago well, it wasn’t it’s been 3 months

I do sort of get where he is coming from because the fall out has been huge especially with my mental health/breakdown being at the core of it and getting so much worse (I’m on the road to recovery now I promise) however, as I said it’s largely HIS fault caused by HIS actions and words!

He said he didn’t care if I went and slept with someone else as well so that’s nice. Because, the situation between us has clearly changed.

[This message edited by lostandconfused90 at 7:14 AM, Wednesday, October 11th]

BarelyBreathing,

I agree, I just think if you were THAT unhappy you’d surely say something wouldn’t you? I would. I wouldn’t have waited 6 months and then give myself to someone else. I’d end it! Absolute coward really.

I agree with what people are saying, he wasn’t unhappy until he started up with his AP, funny that isn’t it. Because, he never acted any differently towards me whatsoever, people who are unhappy don’t do that, do they? Hmm.

I just wanted to add a few more details.

When I found out about him sleeping with her 2 days after he left me (he’s still adamant this is the truth but, who knows) he said he regretted it and doesn’t really know why he did it, he thinks because things were so tense at home and she made it clear it was available he just bit and he said perhaps it was a form of escapism. He also said him doing it wasn’t some big mug off to me and it wasn’t about me? What was it about then?

Now, I don’t know how much of this would be true or not as you can imagine I can’t believe a word he says.

He reckons he had already decided that he didn’t want to go there with her anymore before I found out but, I think it’s probably because when I turned up at her house it burst his bubble more than anything. The jig was up, secret out.

Looked at his work laptop last night at Google chat to see if he had been talking to her and he had but it was work related only however, she had messaged saying "thanks for the tea x " all he said was no worries. I don’t know why but it’s really annoyed me I wouldn’t be making her tea if I were him but, he is most probably just trying to be polite and professional at work and making tea for everyone but her would be fishy? I don’t know. She was also slagging off another work colleague (she’s a nasty cow) and all he wrote was "fantastic" so I do think he is being honest about having very little contact with her. However, I don’t have access to his phone to check messages there. I know this is toxic of me to be checking but, I wanted to look for my own sanity. I won’t say anything to him about me looking as it was nothing anyway. But, I do think she is still chasing him to continue however, he appears to be uninterested.

Wish I didn’t have to think these things and want to check things. I just honestly can’t believe he would do such a thing. Everyone is shocked all of our friends, both of our families because, he has NEVER been this kind of person until now.. it’s honestly like looking at a stranger as if I haven’t really known him for these last 12 years, how do you even begin to get over that?

[This message edited by lostandconfused90 at 11:54 AM, Wednesday, October 11th]

You should have access to his phone, online passwords, details of every social media account, etc., etc.
This should be something coming from him, to demonstrate that he is truly changing his ways and that he is willing to rebuild your trust with complete honesty and transparency. Trust is built upon that foundation and it is something that is earned, not given freely.

If I were a WS, I would move mountains to prove that I was devoted to my relationship.
That is remorse, that is taking responsibility and dealing with the consequences of one's actions, that is trying to make amends as best as possible.

It sounds like your WP is still trying to avoid some of this, and hope you can just forgive and forget. It doesn't work like that because forgiveness is a transaction between two people, and you will never forget what happened (but you can move past it with time and effort and healing).

As for the conversations going south, again that's mostly on him for not wanting to deal with your emotions. But to be fair, I can see it being overwhelming and him not knowing what to do, especially if he hasn't developed healthy conflict handling skills. One thing that can help is for you to realise there's always a pause between what he says and your response - you can take a minute to calm yourself down, collect your thoughts, and then calmly assert what you need. It almost helps to "take a step outside your body" and listen to what he says, think, and then reply back with a focus on attacking the issue and not him personally. It's almost like compartmentalisation, taking yourself out personally and focussing on the problem and how to deal with it (and the problem can be on how your needs aren't being met). It sounds kinda strange, but it is an effective technique for dealing with overwhelming problems and can help you feel like you're taking control back. Note - this isn't denying your emotions or not dealing with them, it's more about letting your rational side take control to help you better understand and express them and advocate for what you need.

As for the whole "thanks for the tea" thing, that does sound somewhat suspicious to me. At the very least, his relationship with her at work should be absolutely minimised - no lunches, tea, personal discussion, etc. Honestly he should be looking at options to change departments or jobs to make sure she's not in the picture at all. Easier said than done in many cases and in this economy, but he should be willing to at least explore options. If they have close contact, there's always a chance that the affair will flare back up (or never have really ended).

Again - the 180 was mentioned previously, so let us know your thoughts on that and if you have any questions. It will help you see things more clearly and better understand what you need.

SerJr,

Thank you for your response,

I haven’t asked for access to his phone because, we are currently not together and he says it’s 100% done between us and he doesn’t love me anymore so, no chance of R with him anyway.

He has worked in the department with her for 5 years but, only in September started a new role which now makes him her line manager, he hasn’t been doing the job long enough to change schools so it would end his career in that aspect and he can’t change departments as he is specialist subject as he teaches secondary school. His work is his priority over anything else so, he would most probably scoff if I asked him to do that even if we were trying to R.

Where do I locate the healing library to read about the 180? Many thanks.

[This message edited by lostandconfused90 at 1:42 PM, Wednesday, October 11th]

Ah - sorry for the confusion on my part. With the 180 though, it applies whether you're together or not.

Here's the links:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/

Everyone is shocked all of our friends, both of our families because, he has NEVER been this kind of person until now..

Or perhaps he's only ever let you and everyone see what he wanted you to see. The same self that allowed him to do this and keep it from you as well as lie about no longer having feelings for you.

There's a reason why we call this crazy-making, because you're twisting yourself up so much just trying to make sense out of nonsense. Not even your ex can make sense of it himself. And that's something he'll have to deal with on his own, if he ever does.

But that's no longer your problem. I hope you're taking the time to take care of yourself, working on freeing yourself from him. Because the more you entangle yourself in this web, the harder it will be to get out.

He doesn’t want to attempt R anyway.

There is nothing else you can do or discover, it's time to detach go hard 180. Start preparing life without him. When his little house of cards start to crumble he might come begging, that's when you take control of this and set the terms to even consider offering R.