SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello. My story is in my profile. I have been divorced for several years now. I divorced my WW of over 20 years due to an infidelity that occurred at the start of our relationship. We have been cordial since the divorce. We have 2 kids. 1 is an adult and the other is very soon to be 18.
My wife has been interested in giving things another try. I cant say I am not interested but I can never love her the way I did before. I dont think she expects it either.
Anyway. We are entertaining the idea of dating each other again. Since our divorce, I have not dated or seen anyone. I dont kow if my ex has or not. I tried to stay out of her private life. I dont think she has seen anyone but I know she would likely not tell me either out of respect for me or that she might think it would hurt our chances of being together again.
My questions are as follows:

I dont know that I could date my wife if she slept with another person. I know we havent been married and her life is hers to live, but there is something about being replaced during the marriage and to think it might have happened after that gets me PTSDing. How have people navigated this conversation or situation?

Since all Waywards are capable liars, how do I trust what she says?

I am wanting to put the past behind me, but I am unsure that I am able to do so. I have been to therapy and I am taking more meds than I want to handle my shifting moods. I have been given the okay from my therapist to give this a try.

I am not in any rush to be intimate but I do miss having someone to spend time with. I obviously have known my ex for a long time and I am comfortable with her (to an extent.)

If or when things do get to that point of intimacy, how did you navigate reestablishing intimacy? I will never tell my ex that I am in love with her and I wonder if other have done the same.

To the waywards that wanted a second chance and was given the opportunity, How did you handle your BS and restarting a relationship? What were some unexpected situations that came up and how did you handle them? Was this difficult for your BS and were you successful in your second chance or what caused it to fail?

Any help would be appreciated. There has been so many great Waywards on this site. I respect all of you that have tried to be better, not just for their spouses, but for themselves.

TIA

There is a thread in the ICR forum where BS can post a question for WS. You may wish to try there.

Yes, I saw that. I am mostly interested in the Wayward point of view, but I am open to BSes as well. I just dont know what I dont know. I figured I might get more responses this way and the ICR doesnt see alot of activity. Its a great resource that is not seen as the benefit that it is.

So, I have a story that is relevant. Not my own, but spot on. I am a MH.

My in-laws.

My FIL had a number of affairs by the time my husband was five or six. He then fell in love with a woman, let’s call her Lacy. He divorced his wife "Maria" when my husband was 7 or 8, and married Lacy.

He adored Lacy’s daughter.

Maria dated other men. She was never really serious with other guys. Maria had a very notable mental breakdown during the divorce process, which my husband now realizes was probably PTSD from the affairs FIL was having, and his leaving her for the latest AP. Maria was hospitalized for several months, and my husband and his brother lived with their grandparents while this all was happening. Meanwhile, their dad and the AP had started their new affair life.

That marriage lasted about 5 or 6 years. Strangely enough, Lacy began an affair with a man who just happened to have more money that FIL did. FIL and his two boys came home one day after working the ranch to find the house cleared out, she had left him with absolutely nothing but a note about how she had found another man, good-bye.

FIL was apparently devastated. My husband and his brother lived with their mom Maria most of the time. FIL began visiting Maria, more and more. They ended up dating, and my husband says he hated the idea of this cheating ass who destroyed his family coming home.

But come home he did. Maria remarried him. My husband was 16 when they got back together.

They remained married until they died, about 45 years later.

So, yes it can work. Yes, she loved him. And he loved her. He sometimes cried when he spoke of his leaving her and what he did. He hated what he did.

He remained angry with himself over that until the day he died. She had long forgiven him. In fact, the daughter he adopted was always welcomed in her home (even though she is difficult and often unpleasant due to mental illness). His remorse was obvious.

Since all Waywards are capable liars, how do I trust what she says?

Since you think all Waywards are capable liars, how do you trust what one of them might share here on your thread?
One of the reasons this site frowns on generalizations.

Very good question Bigger. I know all people are capable of lying. I am asking those that have done the work how I can trust my ex wife. I think that I could trust what my ex said but I also believed that she loved me, and only me, the entire time we were together.
I am sure fear plays a large part of it.
I know that a bunch of internet strangers are under no obligation to lie to me or give me the truth for that matter. I just want to protect myself and prepare myself.
Nothing is set in stone. We havent even talked about when we might start trying again, only that both of us are open to the idea. She was under no obligation to me during and after our divorce. I want people to know that I recognize that.

5Decades. I appreciate your story. My parents divorced when I was 4 and remarried when I was 14. Lots of infidelity on both sides and they only remarried because it was cheaper to be together. Then there was more infidelity with a divorce again 2 years later. I wonder how your husbands parents navigated their relationship when it was starting again. My ex is very remorseful. She has told me numerous times that I didnt deserve what she did to me.

I think you'll get mainly responses from BSes.

Since all Waywards are capable liars, how do I trust what she says?

I read that in a different way. Gently, your post and this particular sentence read to me as if you feel powerless, unable to or afraid of relying on your own strengths and observations.

To figure out her truthfulness, my reco is to search the web to find indicators and ways to bring out the truths. Then apply what you learned.

None of us can make decisions for you. None of us can know if your XW has healed or not. None of us knows if your XW is lying to herself or to you.

You have the strengths you need for all of that. You may not realize it yet, but the strengths are in you now. You need to learn to trust yourself. I know that's scary. You are very likely to make mistakes - trusting someone who's lying, not trusting someone who's telling the truth. But that how human beings learn.

As always, I think you should start with figuring out what you want. My reading of your post and your profile is that you didn't really want to D or, at best, that you acted reflexively when you needed to act mindfully.

So, what do you want? What road to joy looks best to you right now? What are you willing to do to find that joy?

Sex probably isn't the issue. No matter how vanilla and brief your sexual activity was, you W almost definitely cheated for reasons other than sex. (I confess I'm unable to read walls of text, as in your profile, in detail, so I apologize if you wrote that she cheated for sex.)

Gently, I think intimacy works best when it comes from desire to please and be pleased. If you approach it that way, my bet is that you'll make a good start.

I know what I recommend is risky. I know you can get hurt. I'm convinced, however, that risk is part of life, and I'm convinced that taking risks is the only way to live a good life. Yes, I agree that risks can be minimized by withdrawing, but I believe that limits the joy and contentment one can get from life. And IMO, joy and contentment make life worth living.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:01 PM, Tuesday, January 23rd]

Hi Sisoon. I respect you so much. You are always very balanced in your responses.
I’m sure I am afraid. I don’t think I have any more or less fear than normal. I know that everyone is capable of harm, myself included. I know the pain my ex is capable of. I believe I am prepared to handle it just as well as I would with a new partner. I just want to be extra prepared for whatever might unexpectedly arise. I think it’s the Boy Scout in me

I'm not a WS myself. But I believe you have to ask yourself some fundamental questions first before you think about something like 'reconciliation'.

but I can never love her the way I did before.

I believe you, but why do you entertain the thought of giving it a new try if you can't love her anymore. So what's your 'gain'? I believe if you try to go again you have to be aware why you do it. This isn't so much about 'her' it's only about you. So why do you want to have another relationship with your divorced ex-wife who cheated on you and who you can't love anymore like you used to. Ask yourself those 'uncomfortable' questions before you make a decision.

cant say I am not interested but I can never love her the way I did before. I dont think she expects it either.

Hi, I consider myself more of a former wayward, but let’s start with what I have highlighted in what you said.

First, part of my recovery has been about the way we tell ourselves narratives. Some might be true but a lot of things we tell ourselves are fear based. You have been burned, and that only ups the fears.

Let me challenge you on this: I am going to guess you will never love anyone again with rose colored glasses. You know what people are capable of and it’s rocked the foundation your have in even trusting yourself.

If you have to force yourself to be with her by taking meds and therapy, I would maybe consider yourself not ready.

And if you can’t handle that she may have slept with someone since your divorce- maybe ask yourself - if you meet someone new is their sexual history also going to be a problem? How long have you been divorced?

I cheated on my husband, he cheated on me. It was a long uphill climb, but today don’t think I could love anyone more than him.The only thing that is missing is the rose colored glasses, but I am certain those are long gone for anyone. I don’t see that as a negative thing though.

Framing in a reconciliation is important. To me it’s starting over more intelligently. You don’t have to forget the other person has and can hurt you. But for me I had to say "this is where it starts new." And that meant doing my best to love him and trust him again.

I don’t think you sound ready for that. Is it possible she cheated when she was young but developed new character traits from that experience? Could you talk about how you found out about it later and how she dealt with that and the fallout? Do you feel she is remorseful about the affair?

I think my in-laws thought about their remarriage as "new", but they actually counted the years of their first marriage into their second marriage and "years married" toward their anniversaries.

They kind of just skipped over the time when he was married to Lacy. It wasn’t like they could forget that time, though. Lacy had a very weird set of older women in her family who would call his dad from time to time, and say really crazy stuff. Somehow they would find him and do that. His parents even lived overseas and they did things to bug him. So weird. So he never really was rid of the AP. Then, about 15 years after the divorce, the daughter he adopted showed back up. So he never really was rid of the affair.

My MIL handled things well, I have to say. She just never held anything against the daughter - she was a child in all of it. And it was FIL’s doing after all.

I also have to wonder why you are considering doing this. You seem to want to TRY to love her?

Why?

Is there something that tells you that you "should" be giving her another chance? People can be forgiven, and you do not have to keep them in your life.

I keep hearing people say they love their partners, and love is unconditional.

Okay, fine.

Love may be unconditional. Relationships ARE conditional.

So you may still love her, but she did something that caused you to be unable to move forward in the relationship. And you do not have to try to love someone.

There’s an old saying "when in doubt, don’t ".

I appreciate where you are coming from Bob and Hikingout. I agree that I will likely never love anyone the way did before, but I am also of the mind that I could love someone more fully that hadnt hurt me so badly. This asks the question that if that is the case, why entertain a relationship with my ex wife. I guess familiarity is part of the answer. I do love my ex wife. She is the mother of my children and has been a large part of my life.
When I say I cant love her the same way, I truly mean that I can never love her without thinking of how she hurt me. Im sure alot of BSes also feel the same way. They recognize that they love their spouse but also know that that love now has a limit to it.
I think the rose colored glasses is a good analogy. I would say the kind of love I had before was a reckless love. One I could say I thought was boundless. I couldnt imagine loving my ex more than I did. I assume people would say she was on a pedestal but I dont feel like I did. She wasnt perfect, but she was perfect for me, fault and all. She had my back and I had hers, we rarely argued and worked together like Peanut butter and Chocolate.
Not my love has limits, its tempered by my experiences. Much like I can say that that I will never love my wife the same as before, she could never say that she loves me and expect me to believe it like I used to.
That is the damage of her affair.

Could a wayward be okay with knowing that the love they used to have for them is gone and accept the new love that remains as enough for them.
Its kind of like a pro athlete that did amazing things that got injured and still gives what they can but just cant perform at the same level. Would the team be okay with that player giving his 100% even though that 100% is less than what they had prior to injury.
I hope this makes sense.

5Decades,
I guess to answer your question of why.
I do WANT to love her. The affair she had was many years ago and i didnt find out until 2019. We never really had issues while she was in her affair. I didnt feel neglected, but I was working alot at the time and likely didnt have time to notice. She would say she was not neglected. If anything she would say I spoiled her and tells our daughter that she should marry someone like me.
I think the fact that I didnt know about the affair and that it happened a long time ago makes it easier for me to try to start new. I worry that since her affair started early in our relationship that I will have panic attacks that this will happen again.
She knows me better than anyone, and I know her better than anyone.
I know it sounds bad that I dont think I could handle if she was intimate with another person after our divorce. I realize that she was not expected to join a nunnery. Im not some sex god or perfect person for her to measure all potential mates to. I guess where I am coming from is that my wife cheated with an ex boyfriend that broke up with her. She decided to teach him a lesson by having sex with him whenever she could after dating me.
I would like to think that I couldnt be replaced as easily. Im actually tearing up writing this. I dont think I could handle feeling like I was tossed aside again even though I tossed her away after her confession.

Could a wayward be okay with knowing that the love they used to have for them is gone and accept the new love that remains as enough for them.

I think I was okay knowing we were starting from ground zero. I am pretty sure at the time of us picking up the pieces neither of us were sure if we could feel "in love" again.

Reconciliation is a long nuanced process in which both partners unearth all sorts of truths, both together and separately. The communication and pain, sweat, tears, joy, connectedness that comes from really rolling around in it together is difficult to predict the outcome of.

I think at the beginning you do not know what is possible. So I would not promise to love, 90 percent love, half love, or not love. I would just promise to do my best and see what happens.

I think that those who really reconcile do feel satisfied with what they have and if they were to be asked to definite it beforehand would have surely missed the mark after having gone through it. There will be a lot of ups and downs and a lot of days you might not even have 10 percent to give. But if you worked together before then I think it’s certainly possible it could turn out better than you think. Even if the outcome is finding you don’t want to remarry her.

Let go of the outcome, you have no idea what it will be. I can only answer with I am very satisfied with the love and relationship between my h and I. It’s totally possible. But you are trying to give her the answers to a test that neither of you have yet studied for.

I would get the "did she sleep with anyone else while you were apart" out of the way if that’s a deal breaker for you. I personally don’t understand that part, unless you have gotten a divorce for principle reasons rather than really wanting to be divorced.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:53 PM, Tuesday, January 23rd]

I hope this helps some. My mother left my father for another man when I was in my early 20s. There were several reasons that she hit rock bottom before she left. My father was a damaged child of a narcissistic mother, and he began disintegrating somewhat by the time he hit middle-age. Mother was sick of dealing with whatever was wrong with him and totally sick of dealing with her mother-in-law, my very narcissistic grandmother. This was a man she had known socially, and they left their spouses for each other. She only had a few years before she died in middle age, but she was happy for those few years. My father went on to marry again, and he was happy until he died. I am probably not the person you need to listen to because I understood why my mother did what she did. I loved my father, but I knew that he was really damaged and was so hard for her to put up with anymore. I felt badly for the wife of the AP. Morally my mother should not have left for a married man, but she was desperate for some joy, which she had.

You need to know why your wife did what she did. Each marriage has its own issues so recognizing them might help you to see what YOU need, leaving her out of your decision. If you fall back into bad patterns what would you get out of trying again? I think now might be the time for couples counseling because taking baby steps is the smart thing to do.

Next, look at the word LOVE that we use indiscriminately. I love candy, I love these curtains etc. How would you two love each other? Remember that many times one person usually loves more than the other. The one who loves the least has the most power. If the relationship is too out of balance someone is going to get hurt. Look at your marriage with clear eyes. Did one of you subtly put the other down? That’s why I think counseling, that we should all get BEFORE marriage, to see if you want to start over. Oddly, this might give you the closure you need so you can move on, or it might give both of you ideas about ways to strengthen your relationship.

I wish you happiness in whatever way you choose.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 6:59 PM, Tuesday, January 23rd]

I hope this helps some. My mother left my father for another man when I was in my early 20s. There were several reasons that she hit rock bottom before she left. My father was a damaged child of a narcissistic mother, and he began disintegrating somewhat by the time he hit middle-age. Mother was sick of dealing with whatever was wrong with him and totally sick of dealing with her mother-in-law, my very narcissistic grandmother. This was a man she had known socially, and they left their spouses for each other. She only had a few years before she died in middle age, but she was happy for those few years. My father went on to marry again, and he was happy until he died. I am probably not the person you need to listen to because I understood why my mother did what she did. I loved my father, but I knew that he was really damaged and was so hard for her to put up with anymore. I felt badly for the wife of the AP. Morally my mother should not have left for a married man, but she was desperate for some joy, which she had.

You need to know why your wife did what she did. Each marriage has its own issues so recognizing them might help you to see what YOU need, leaving her out of your decision. If you fall back into bad patterns what would you get out of trying again? I think now might be the time for couples counseling because taking baby steps is the smart thing to do.

Next, look at the word LOVE that we use indiscriminately. I love candy, I love these curtains etc. How would you two love each other? Remember that many times one person usually loves more than the other. The one who loves the least has the most power. If the relationship is too out of balance someone is going to get hurt. Look at your marriage with clear eyes. Did one of you subtly put the other down? That’s why I think counseling that we should all get BEFORE marriage and use it to see if you want to start over. Oddly, this might give you the closure you need so you can move on, or it might give both of you ideas about to strengthen your relationship.

I wish you happiness in whatever way you choose.

Hiking, This is helpful. You are somoene I greatly respect the opinion of. I did not divorce on principle. I divorced because I felt since my wife didnt end her affair ( the AP ended things to be faithful to his new girlfriend) that I was disrepected due to her AP having more morals than my wife. Yes he shouldnt have been sleeping with a woman who was dating, engaged, and married person. but he chose to stop the affair. He was single when my ex was cheating with him. He had no reason to find a girlfriend when he had a booty call whenever he wanted.
I get the sleeping with someone else needing to be addressed. I imagine it will be addressed by this weekend. We never had sex after DDay. I think that becomes part of my concern. I dont know how or if I would be able to perform even if there was no one else since our divorce.
I just want to be able to navigate the minefield that I am trying to travel.
Its weird that I am asking waywards when I guess I should be asking BS more how they handled their waywards trying to rekindle things.
I feel like Im trying to walk to asia without knowing what to do when i get to the ocean.
Everyone has been so helpful. All the people that post and share their experiences. I find myself experiencing so many emotions when visiting this site. Sorrow for the repentant wayward, righteous anger on the BS behalf. This place is really the comforting hug that so many people need.

Cooley, We did premarital counseling after we got engaged. She was in her affair at the time. I can understand being unhappy and wanting to be happy. I understand where you are coming from I think. My ex cheated because she couldnt cope with her heart being broken. She loved her ex boyfriend. When he broke up with her she decided that she would make sure he knew what he was giving up by giving him what he wanted. Its stupid logic that my wife can see. She has been in therapy off and on for many years. Lots of meds. Diagnosed with depression and BPD.
Based on what she has told me, I was the perfect husband. I respected her and treated her very well. She didnt resent me and never had bad feelings about me. She would say that she respected me but didnt consider me during her affair. She didnt plan on being with her ex over me but couldnt find a way to stop as the affair became a routine.
She didnt want the divorce. She was as amicable as possible and we split everything as equal as could be had. I had probably a dream divorce.
She wanted to work on things and I just couldnt feel like I was "runner up" in our relationship. If she had to rely on her ex ending their affair, then where did that put me?
I guess I just want to feel important to her, important enough for her to have pined for only me. I understand how irrational and childish it is. I know it shows im probably not as healed as I want to be. Its immature to want my ex to want me the way she wanted her ex.

Why haven't you dated anyone? How does your reason for not dating impact how you see her dating or not?

I would ask her, ASAP, to share how she found the dating scene since the D and how did that experience impact her thinking about asking for another try? Then, follow up with a specific sex question if you don't learn enough. I think this more general approach might help you learn her mind before you learn the exact answer about sex. And I think that might be helpful for you.

Its immature to want my ex to want me the way she wanted her ex.

Your wife was immature at the time of her affair. It sounds to me a little like she had attachments over his rejections rather than what he actually offered her.

When my husband and I were dating, he was still hung up on his ex. We broke up because of it and he couldn’t win her back and showed up on my doorstep. But this woman wasn’t his soul mate, it was more the thrill of the chase. She would have made him miserable and his children hated her.

We broke up when I read his journal that he wrote in while he was visiting the Amazon. He said he missed her, she was his soul mate. He said I was nice and kind but deserved someone who loved me more.

I have never felt like I was his runner up. I see it more as he had a frame of mind then that didn’t continue. We broke up and he told me he was going to try with her. That weekend I drove past his house late at night and her car was there. I think it’s a difference in I knew this woman well, and I was not inferior to her, especially not as a life partner. She played with his head and then told him she wasn’t interested.

I on the other hand was emotionally available and wanted to be with him genuinely.

I know it’s different because we got married with me knowing this information. It wasn’t a betrayal that lasted years and years.

I guess that was a long winded way to say, what your wife wanted back in those days was to win. She couldn’t handle rejection. It was the same with my husband. Healthy love ending usually results in grief. When an unhealthy attachment ends in pining, obsessing, and a host of toxic thoughts and behaviors. I am not sure you want what she did for him.