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Clearly my boundaries went to shit after her affair. Just curious if this is something that other BS have experienced after their partner cheated?

Yes my boundaries absolutely went out the window. I ended up cheating after his first A. I thought what was good for the goose must be good for the gander. I had not found this site yet and kind of wish I had so I could have had the support and conversations that probably would have made me wake up and see the rabbit hole I was going down. I was angry at my xWS and part of that anger and the fact that I had a younger co-worker flirting with me all the time (which before A discovery was sort of an ego boost and annoyance) and after his A ( I became more curious about co-worker and allowed myself to enjoy the ego boost). But I absolutely believe my xWS's A fueled my irrational and impulsive actions that I brought upon myself. Lesson learned the hard way.

I’ve been straight out propositioned a few times since dday. I’ve turned them all down and the next day I’ve regretted it, but probably not more regret if I’d have gone ahead with it. Probably.

These answers are great, and kind of all over the place. I think the surprise for me was that the testing of the boundaries increased so much. Frankly I knew I flirted more, but realistically for this to happen as often as it did, I must have had an open for business sign tattooed on my forehead. Like I said I never went through with it, but I did notice that I do I run risk reward scenarios in my head. Almost automatically for almost any decision. Prior to the affair the risk so far outweighed the reward that it never came into play. After, the risk, at least as my marriage was concerned, was almost insignificant. The risk that did keep my on the straight and narrow was for my integrity, and a certain extent to not let this level the playing field with her.

I think that with some remorseful WS the boundaries after the affair as someone said was like FT Knox. My EX went to extremes not to ever put herself into play. Quit her trainer and the gym (I feel somewhat responsible for that as I asked her on DDay how many times she f*cked her trainer as it fit the same profile), stopped taking tennis lessons, and never would be alone with any guy.

Someone else pointed out once that her weight gain could have also been a part of protecting herself.

Did anyone else’s WS go to extremes to not put themselves out after their affair? WS are free to chime in or to comment on if they now feel threatened that their BS boundaries are lowered and if they are concerned.

He made massive changes in this regard. Now he never buys coffee for people at work. In the past if he were going to get coffee at lunch he would offer to grab anything for whoever was around, most of the other professionals at his level still do that. He has shut that familiarity off. He doesn’t go to the annual ‘staff appreciation’ party where no spouses are allowed. It is a drunken free for all and every year there are lots of stories of inappropriate behavior that occurs between bosses and staff. He has over time come to realize it is best not to use emojis in texting. Lots of female mid-level professionals would in the past respond to his thumbs up or smiley face with heart eyes emojis, blowing kisses emojis, big heart emojis, etc, etc. It’s just not worth it for the resultant discussion required to ensure that he didn’t encourage that behavior somehow. So if he just uses professional words then they seem to lay off the lovey/heart stuff. It used to be that if friends or family needed medical care they might end up with his cell number and text at any random night or weekend about their own or their kid’s care. That was no longer appreciated by me after the A. Now no one gets his number. If they are friends or family they text me a question and they get set up to speak to his secretary and be seen IN THE OFFICE. Everything is now conducted to the highest professional well-boundaries standards and that makes our interactions as a couple much more smooth. If he has to stay at the office after 5pm I am welcome and encouraged to drop by. If he has work to do on the weekend he does it from HOME not the office.

It may sound severe but seven years of lies necessitated a zero tolerance policy for malarkey. He is a people pleaser and now he can play that out to his hearts content WITH MEN. Women, not so much. It seems to have simplified his life and he actually applies a lot of the boundaries he learned to men, cutting back on the people pleasing of his own volition, not under pressure from me.

I definitely agree with this dynamic. I think it was due to a combination of being hurt and not knowing if the relationship would go forward. I think I actually discerned part of what changed and it was centered around listening and eye contact. After, for a while, I listened to women more intently with more focused eye contact. I think those two things are what sent the signal. Are those flirting? I don't think so but maybe they are?

In the past if he were going to get coffee at lunch he would offer to grab anything for whoever was around,

Quick T/J as I had to laugh. If I wasn’t at a business lunch, there was a high end take out place I loved. A few of the younger women in the office would hold off on going out knowing I would most likely be going there. It was like a parade with two or three positioning themselves behind me at check out knowing that I would pay for them. It became an office joke.

As I stated earlier, I placed stringent boundaries on my wayward self. As to my wife, no one can say with 100% certainty their spouse won't cheat; but, in my case, I can say 99.9%. She fell hard for me the first time she saw me and still is head-over-heels in love with me after 40 years. I am very fortunate to have her love and respect.

WWTL,

Begin T/J

just a humble lurker but have followed your story over multiple forums, and each time it fills me with a poignancy I felt when I first read Oliver Twist... a sad longing for what was and what could have been if only a few circumstances had been different....

End T/J

That said, back to the topic... a funny thing happened on the way to the theatre last weekend. Picked up W and her new friend (who is the DD of my MIL's BFF from HS, but my wife and her connected recently) for an event. My wife has felt some red flags from this person, saying she is too friendly too soon, so I've always kept a remove from her on social occasions. Moreover said friend is newly divorced, and constantly talking about her exploits on various dating apps, but we tried to explain it away as being related to her divorce trauma. She came from another country to ours after marriage and is alone for the first time ever in her life away from close family, so wife (and by extension, moi) have given her a sympathetic ear.

So after the event, as we were dropping her at her place, she mentioned about a new sports package she had bought, and casually invited me over (not US but ME) to watch. My wife asked if there was other company and she said she hadn't thought of it ( ). I asked what time the games started and after adjusting for local time zones, realized that it would be past midnight! So basically, this woman invited me over ALONE in the middle of the night to watch a game WITHOUT my wife -- IN FRONT OF HER! Needless, my wife and I laughed out loudly and I said " I need to ask permission from headquarters" and left for home.

We were too sleepy once we got home, but the first thing I thought of once I got up was the audacity of that move. The very first thig my W said once she was up was "No way you're going there alone!" and I was like "Thank God you noticed the gravity of the situation as well!"... My wife tried to placate me by saying her friend probably needs company (her XH was a big sports fan and apparently the divorce was very sudden after a long a traumatic marriage...) but I said "You need company, go to the app not your friends' husband(s) -- maybe more than one where the fielding happened.

So, bottom line, the question of boundaries comes up so suddenly, and from such unexpected corners that one is often left gobsmacked looking for the right response. It made me realize that couples actually need to discuss boundaries as a part of relationship planning right at the beginning of their acquaintance than at a point when one (or both) has already crossed a few increaingly dark red lines.

[This message edited by toota at 11:54 PM, Monday, October 16th]

Atomic Mess

Did your wife know about your infidelity?

Toota

Thanks for the kind words. I just wish it were fiction

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 11:59 PM, Monday, October 16th]

Yes, WWTL. I was a pretty crappy man to a lot of women in my relationships during my 20s including an ex-wife. We had a one sided open relationship from my side and monogamous from her side. I was pretty brazen about the cheating. I would pickup other women while I was out with her. Yeah, I was that guy.

This is just one example:
My future wife and 2 other girlfriends had planned a college graduation vacation/present to themselves for the following summer. They graduated same year different colleges. I met her late in the year she graduated. She left for the vac about 6-8 months after we started dating.

I picked her up from the airport on their return. I had had a week long passionate fling with very beautiful young lady while she was gone. The fling girl covered me in love bites including my neck ear to ear. The look of disappointment on my future wife's face started me down the path of self analysis to be a better man. It took a few more years for me to be that better man.

Her mom had told me my wife--girlfriend then--always got what she wanted eventually. She played the long game giving me enough leash to tire myself out. We dated 3+ years, lived together 2+ years, engaged 1 year, and married faithfully 36 years. I had one last affair during our engagement. I have kept my vows since marrying.

I just finished all your previous threads a couple of days ago. My heart goes out to both of you and I hope you both heal in time.

Hey WWTL, as to your initial question:

Clearly my boundaries went to shit after her affair. Just curious if this is something that other BS have experienced after their partner cheated?

My bounderies didnt go to shit but they certainly took a huge hit. My betrayal took place as a young husband and father. I am tall, blonde haired, blue eyed, played sports and have always been told I was handsome. Before the betrayal I wore teflon and had bounderies of titanium. Afterward the teflon was pretty worn and the bounderies were, Id say, tin? After the betrayal I had women get in my personal space, touch my arm or shoulder bat their eyes and I didnt pull away like I used to....kinda reveled in it. I was in the danger zone...probably a lot more than I was aware of or admitted to as I was in my physical prime. I also think that the vibe I put off had changed to being more receptive than I had been. As Ive said before, the 10 years I stayed in the marriage post betrayal were very very hard. Didnt help that our sex life during that time took a huge hit too. It was horrible.

I 100% relate to this:

The risk that did keep my on the straight and narrow was for my integrity, and a certain extent to not let this level the playing field with her.

Seriously. This is the only thing that kept me from joining my ww in the ranks of the unfaithful and becoming what is known here as a "mad hatter". I was also fearful of creating some kind of dysfunctional family for my young kids, which, of course, happened anyway as I continued to prop up my frankenmarriage. I had become a different guy and she wasnt who I thought she was so, stranger #1 meet stranger #2. It was doomed to failure.

Contrast that to now. Id say that my bounderies are far stronger then ever...maybe double walled titanium?

It helps a lot that I am in a much better place now. Successful career. Years of great therapy. Kids on good life paths. Married to the love of my life who is the complete package. She is beautiful, successful, wise beyond her years (yes, shes almost a decade younger), great communicator, bombshell physically, a libido that rivals my own and survivor of her own brutal betrayal. Knowing I am coming home to this woman is a great antidote to the wandering eye.

This is not to say we are not open and honest about incidents when we are tested. Shes had them as have I and we openly discuss them. I travel for work quite a bit and the physical absence obviously can create a vacuum so we talk about bounderies and work very very hard to stay connected. After going through what each of us has in the past, we take nothing for granted.

Thanks for posting this topic. It has given me the opportunity to dig in, reflect, and think of where I can improve.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 6:36 PM, Wednesday, October 18th]

I am sure that’s how my husband justified his affair to a certain extent, and there is a big difference between how you handled it versus how he did.

What I would like to point out is a justification is in the eyes of the beholder. I recognize that infidelity is the ultimate trauma so that is more complicated that an average justification. Once you follow through it’s all hollow.

When I cheated I wanted out of my marriage. I felt that he did nothing to try and meet my needs, he was self centered. After the affair and reflection I realized that I was unfamiliar with the nuances of my own needs and had stopped communicating them years before because of the stonewalling. It was still my responsibility to either keep trying or get a divorce.

I also think if it happens once there is a high likelihood of it happening again and becoming a longer affair. Those good feelings are easy to chase once you have stepped over the line. And the person who does it once has the same issues. The justifications just grow from there.

I guess my point is that justifications all feel very real to the person giving them. We all are accountable for what we do. The difference is not doing them to begin with. To hold you head high and act with intention and integrity was not always my strong suit. Today I wouldn’t put it away for anything. I am absolutely counting my lucky stars our marriage has continued and healed. I am not too proud to say I was an idiot, I acted with low character, and was a weak minded person who really didn’t deserve a second chance. I also won’t squander it for anything.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:03 PM, Wednesday, October 18th]

I didn’t have my boundaries tested while we were still married, probably because the marriage had beaten me down so badly physically and mentally. I had always been considered a beautiful woman, but I developed a chronic skin condition and put on weight in the wake of his infidelities. Both the weight gain and the skin problems miraculously vanished after we separated, though!

I clearly remember walking home from work 2 weeks after I moved out and getting cat-called by a bunch of guys driving passed me in a car. This had been a regular occurrence when I was young and in the early years of our marriage, but this time, I actually jumped with fright because it had been so long since ANY noticed me that I didn’t know how to react to the sexual attention.

After the betrayal I had women get in my personal space, touch my arm or shoulder bat their eyes and I didnt pull away like I used to....kinda reveled in it. I was in the danger zone...probably a lot more than I was aware of or admitted to as I was in my physical prime. I also think that the vibe I put off had changed to being more receptive than I had been. I

That exactly mirrors my experience. The only difference was when she had her affair I was not in terrible shape, but after used my anger and hit the gym hard and lost a ton of weight, hit the weights and built a lot of lean muscle. It was a total flip. When she had her affair, without a doubt she was way more attractive than me. She let herself go and. I wouldn’t say I was way more, but realistically probably more attractive than her at that point. I think that also bothered her as she watched while I got flirted with, while the attention she got was minimized. She would get quite upset. Especially when one of her friends would flirt with me. Like I said, I never followed through, but she was convinced that one day I would cheat on her, and I didn’t do too much to calm her fears other than to say that I wouldn’t do it.

Hiking, that you so much for contributing. You obviously dropped your boundaries when you had your affair. How were they prior to that? Do you think it was part of your personality to attract male attention, or was this a kind of one off that was triggered by you wanting to exit the marriage? Did you find yourself locking down after everything came out? Was your BS concerned that you would do it again?

I’m not in the once a cheater always a cheater camp. Especially if the consequences are severe enough. I had very little concern that my EX woukd ever do anything again. Especially as I said with the way she locked herself down

Blue, I am so happy you got back to the point of where you were after you left him. Obviously looks aren’t everything, but most people would choose to look the best they can. Sounds like it really worked out for you.

Hiking, that you so much for contributing. You obviously dropped your boundaries when you had your affair. How were they prior to that? Do you think it was part of your personality to attract male attention, or was this a kind of one off that was triggered by you wanting to exit the marriage? Did you find yourself locking down after everything came out? Was your BS concerned that you would do it again?

My boundaries with men were never a problem. I did not need a lot of male attention. I was at a crossroads in life where depression and crisis came together and culminated in me feeling that I had become unhappy in my marriage . At the time of the affair he was opening a new business and we had little time together for an extended period of time and our interactions had deteriorated. I was disconnected with myself and with him. I never really paid other men any attention to be honest, I liked being married up until that point.

I think for some time he didn’t know what to believe, it was out of left field to him. I am not sure whether he thought I would cheat again. It didn’t really seem like it. I gave him full access to everything but he rarely checked anything.

Once it happens you know the other person is capable of that and I am not sure that ever fully leaves, but I do think he trusts me today. Maybe not as blindly as before, and I feel the same about him really. We are connected and it’s palpable, while that doesn’t provide a guarantee it has provided insight through stark contrast.

I’m not in the once a cheater always a cheater camp. Especially if the consequences are severe enough. I had very little concern that my EX woukd ever do anything again. Especially as I said with the way she locked herself down

Oh me either. When I said that it is easy for it to happen again after once I meant that if you think it’s just one time sometimes that’s how a longer one can start. You can tell yourself just for tonight but once that ball is rolling then it becomes easier.

To these questions:

Did anyone else’s WS go to extremes to not put themselves out after their affair? WS are free to chime in or to comment on if they now feel threatened that their BS boundaries are lowered and if they are concerned.

Im not sure Id say she went to extremes, but she did seem more reserved. More mindful. Of course, her AP, my ex best friend was persona non grata forever and she abided by that. I know she was also deeply ashamed but did not have the maturity or tools on board to deal with it and process it in a healthy way. Repressing it all made her emotions come out sideways...usually as anger. I did catch her weeping alone many times and did nothing to comfort her...I had the thought that she was getting her just deserts. Really, really toxic environment honestly. Didnt help that we did not tell a soul. It was the atomic secret that we kept in the name of shame. So tragic. Having a bunch of young children in the house to raise added another layer of stress but we did our very best for the kids I will say. I know that despite our broken bond, she was a good Mom to the children and always looked after them in a loving manner. It was years later that we started to dig out of the hole of our miserable co existence but too much damage had been done. As with so many cases of betrayal all I can say is....what a waste.

As to her discomfort over my female attention, oh yeh, she didnt like it at all. The fact that I didnt rebuff it made it far worse Im sure. The way she expressed it was to give me the cold shoulder for days. Again, I kinda reveled in that. Can you say dysfunctional? Really pathetic on both of our parts. I still grieve the years lost to this terrible cycle.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:30 PM, Thursday, October 19th]

Didnt help that we did not tell a soul. It was the atomic secret that we kept in the name of shame. So tragic.

Yes, I understand this and it mirrors my experience. We also told nobody. Her for the shame of having the affair, and me for the shame of being cheated on. In retrospect, facing down the hard truths would have either saved us time in getting divorced, or putting us on a path to heal. Things fester and poison grows in darkness.

I also like you let her suffer in silence. Could hear crying from her room, but my answer was to raise the volume on the television, or just leave. Not my finest hour.