Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: notsureifishouldbehere

General :
Betrayed again

Topic is Sleeping.
default

BoundaryBuilder ( member #78439) posted at 7:14 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

So sorry to hear this MCC.

Yes, this was a betrayal. Trust your feelings and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

MCC, he strikes me (repeatedly) as a very manipulative person. His primary manipulation method is to exploit your empathic nature, your kind and generous heart. Again and again. Buying a house without your input certainly could be a selfish and manipulative hail Mary play designed to win you back, but possibly there's more to it.

It's as if he doesn't recognize you as an agentic being.

"The concept of agency is complex, but at its root, it refers to a person’s ability to act and make decisions for themselves. Their capacity to have an effect on the world around them. Their potential to exert influence over their life and circumstances."

His unilateral decision making treats you as an object rather than a subject. IMO, he acts like you are a passive prop or a supporting character in the story of HIS life. He, of course, is the hero in this scenario - he "loves" MCC and will "do whatever it takes" to win (manipulate) you. A house! Yoga! Therapy! A little love bombing and manipulation via the self-pity channel, some steam-rollering and bingo - he gets the outcome HE wants. Easy peasy.

It's like he fails to recognize you are the subject of your own experience, the main character in YOUR own story, the active agent in YOUR own life. Because he operates without this recognition, he deprives you of YOUR agency.

I am seeing things so differently now, because he has been writing to me all day and I can see why it was he always won me around. He was always so good at doing that. He will do anything I want! I can have half the deeds in my name! He will cancel this house and find another one that I love and it can be ours!

It's not one rash decision. It was a set of decisions. He made them all, knowing it would hurt me. And then I guess the plan was to just steamroller over me like he usually does

The one positive in this latest shit show he created is the rose colored glasses are coming off. Yes, this is who he is.

Take care of yourself right now! I know it's embarrassing to reach out to friends and family, but you need your tribe around you. Is there a friend or family member who can attend the funeral with you?

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 11:48 PM, Monday, October 2nd]

Married 34 years w/one adult daughter
ME:BW
HIM: 13 month texting EA with high school X who fished him on Facebook 43 years later
PA=15 days spread over final 3 months
D-Day=April 21, 2018
Reconciled

posts: 216   ·   registered: Mar. 4th, 2021
id 8810281
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 7:14 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

I just feel like people who buy houses on their own can look after themselves if they're sick.

I've heard every variation of begging, pleading and manipulation in the book yesterday. Similar to after the A.

I simply said:

You are a person who makes decisions without considering my needs, wishes or wellbeing. I then have to live with unwelcome consequences.

And I said I was done.

And I certainly feel like that.

I don't even feel sad today. Just feel nothing right now.

It's just who he is.

He's not a team player.

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810282
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 7:19 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

Is this a pattern of behavior with him? Does he try and get you to accept it when he makes deliberate choices against what you want? This seems a bit calculated on his part.

Yes

He has always done this

I can't think of any major life choice where I felt it was mutually negotiable to mutual benefit.

Rigidity is am autistic trait so I let it slide.

But; I begged him to look at houses. It was hugely important to me.

He waited until I was gone a month, went to see ONE house and made an offer ON THE SPOT.

There's part of me that thinks he's gone insane. The IC I spoke to said he sounded mentally unstable.

But I'm not falling into the rabbit hole of naking excuses.

He needs a therapist, not a house!

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810283
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 7:22 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

I am not going to the funeral.

Married people support you at funerals and take care of you if you're sick and are faithful and reliable and make choices as a couple.

Single people have sex with lunatics and buy houses without considering anyone.

He can be single now can't he

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810285
default

Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 7:53 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

That's the attitude that you need, Mint! You are SO right, now hold hold hold, okay?

What BoundaryBuilder said!!!

His unilateral decision making treats you as an object rather than a subject. IMO, he acts like you are a passive prop or a supporting character in the story of HIS life.

THIS is exactly the issue I continue to suffer from in my "M" due to what I believe is a very early developmental wound in my H. Minty, you must read and re-read the above quote. In fact, print those words onto a 8 x 10 card stock and FRAME THEM, then hang them where you can read them every day.

Because that is EXACTLY what is going on, and it's not just his brain, it is exactly the same with my H. No matter the root cause of that, and we can play therapist all year long, I could explain why it goes back to babyhood. You are NOT going see a big change in him, since he cannot "see" you as a separate person. Lack of Object Constancy (if you're interested, look into Borderline Personality Disorder and how it develops).

Anyway, good on you for deciding this has to be the parting of the ways. I also see what nekonamida posted as very, very likely:

Maybe because he knows it is THE thing that you want. He wants to see if you take it because you accepting the house brings you back under the same roof as him. It's a sign that you are moving forward with him instead of without him.

It's like he desperately hoped this will "lure" you back, like a fish on a hook, if he dangles some THING he thinks he can BUY for you. Instead of offering HIMSELF.

UGH.

[This message edited by Superesse at 8:00 PM, Monday, October 2nd]

posts: 2061   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8810292
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 8:07 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

I honestly don't believe it was to lure me back.

I think I went NC with him briefly, he couldn't handle the separation and thought "if she is gone, what can I do to make myself feel safe?"

He always wanted to own a home, he had the money and he thought "hell with it"

The limit of where he considered me, was getting a bigger place so there would be room for everyone.

But even that is about him, because he wants me back home, so he had to make sure that was possible.

It was not a gift for me, or a grand gesture. It was a blindly selfish, rash decision that actively damaged our M and removed from me a potential future thing I'd been looking forward to for 30 years.

It was utter, pure, self absorbed thoughtlessness where he was thinking how to make himself feel more secure and I didn't factor in AT ALL.

EXACTLY like his A huh?

What I feel, is blank.

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810294
default

Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 8:16 PM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

if she is gone, what can I do to make myself feel safe?

I can think of several disrepectful come-backs.

But humor doesn't always post well and you need to feel safe, yourself, right? How can you start doing that. 30 years is a long time but less than it will be if you don't decide to break out of this pattern.

posts: 2061   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8810295
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 1:08 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

That's right, I need to feel safe myself.


What's interesting is that I got a very long garbled email from him tonight, that was about the closest thing to real life empathy I have got since this started.

I'll skip out the long "I love you" bits, but he said:

"I slowed my mind down from its usual effort to fill every minute so I never have time to properly think, and I really thought, properly, about how I treated you and I felt sick. Letting myself properly think about it made me unravel.

I thought about when [insert very specific awful thing he did during the A] and I just felt sick to my stomach. I really thought about it. I imagined being you. I am so so sorry. What a terrible thing I did. You must have been so frightened and felt so helpless. I am really sad that I did that.

I was crying earlier because I realise I never let myself really think about it and because I never did, I never explained anything so you could understand. I felt so sad thinking that because I never dud that, you would never have a chance to feel better"

Well that is the ONLY time EVER since the A that he's actually described something he did and voluntarily brought it up and offered what sounded like an apology that means something.

He said "sorry" A LOT, but never like that. Never like I felt he understood it.

Wow. And to wait until now!

Apparently he has an IC now, starting Thursday. Apparently he saw the doctor today about medication. Apparently.

He had to leave work because he started crying today, and he said "I wasn't ready to do all this before because the perceived cost of facing all this was higher than just living with it. Now, that balance is tipped. I can't go on like this feeling sad, guilty and ashamed every day. I want to live again. I want to get better"

Which sounded to me like FINALLY the right attitude.

Anyway.

I will let him do what he's going to do, but I felt really jarred by finally getting what sounded like actual meaningful remorse.

It felt really weird.

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810325
default

Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 1:48 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

Yeah he is going to face a lot of his issues, now that you are coming up for air, as it were.

My father used to quip: People in hell want ice water, too. A bit harsh, but change that to 'incarceration.' Think about how life changes for people who have seriously offended others. Their time to chill out and reflect on consequences tends to occur after they have 'hit bottom.' Sorry. NOT your circus, not your monkeys, as they say here on SI.

Best thing right now, based on my bitter experience, is stop allowing him to rope you in to the role of counselor/social worker/devoted friend/mother/home health care aid, or whatEvah!

YOU need people to minister to YOU in real life. Believe me, he still expects you to do that for HIM, doesn't he? Hence this lugubrious email. And it makes sense he would send this to you. After all, as I read it, you have been doing that sympathy dance with him for decades? So of course he feels like telling you the latest tortuous twist of this dance he has involved you in.

Maybe you extend to him the sympathy you deny yourself? Shouldn't someone give this level of concern and care to Minty? I thought of that today, because it can be easier to be kind to others than to ourselves. I care! Others here care! Only an ocean to cross, but I'm thinking you need care. I am soooo NOT thinking he needs your time and tears.

Minty, are you really seeing that - regardless of how it is designed to elicit "hopeful feelings" in you - this individual needs likely years of work to start changing his lifetime mindset?! Unless you love the combination of hope and suffering, I don't think you should be his bloody nursemaid!

Did you respond in any way to this? I know it's tempting, but I hope you didn't. (There is a great thread on SI called something like Keep No Contact, Post It Here, for saying to us just what you are feeling, now that he "sees the error" of his latest infraction.)

And you know it won't be his last.

posts: 2061   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8810327
default

EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 2:01 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

MCC I'll just share a bit of my experience with you.

About 6 months after dday1, when I finally set down a hard boundary to my xwh and told him it was time to shit or get off the pot with R or I was done, the next morning he came down after he woke up crying. He laid on the floor at my feet and sobbed like a child. He told me that I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He told me he'd been so stupid. He told me he didn't want a future without me. He promised me things would be different, that he'd get therapy, he'd do a b and c, etc etc etc. And I thought "finally! He's getting it!" It felt like a corner turned.

Less than two weeks later he had a slumber party with the ap at my house while I was out of town (tho I didn't find it about that til a few months later at dday2).

I realized when none of his sobbed promises came to pass that all my xwh's words were just hot air and that he'd never done one iota of the work he would have had to do to start fixing what he broke with his selfishness and entitlement.

The point I'm making is that all your wh has given you is words and promises. And after everything he's put you through, after infidelity and false R, words and promises are completely meaningless no matter how pretty they may be. So stop listening to his words and start paying attention to his actions. What do his actions tell you?

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3901   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: Louisiana
id 8810328
default

HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 2:21 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

MCC,

I have to agree with Ellie. My WW told me that she was forever sorry, that she would never do this to me again, that I was the only blah blah blah. She told me this 24hrs after being with AP, and then later that night she kicked me out of the house because she wanted an excuse to spend as much time with her AP without me around. (Don’t ask, it’s a terrible story and I’m still dealing with it). Point is, words don’t mean anything. Isn’t it amazing, NOW he sees what he did was wrong, after he hurt you. Even though you told him specifically, "if you do this I will never forgive you".

This isn’t remorse, it’s manipulation, it’s woe is me I’m so sad feel sorry for me. After he had an affair, the ultimate betrayal, he just now gets it? It’s been years.

Here goes the cycle again. This will be nice for a bit, and then what will happen? He knows you’re empathetic to him, he is using that as weapon against you. Yes, he is. All WS do it. They manipulate and use empathy as a tool to get what they want.

He needs to face consequences.

As long as you keep contact, he will use sweet words, but his actions will hurt over and over. You keep giving him chances, despite your pain. Hope is the worst thing for R, hope keeps people In Toxic Relationships.

Do as you wish, I personally believe that you need to be 100 NC for at least a month.

Me mid 40s BH
Her mid 40s WW
1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 396   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8810330
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 2:24 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

Well right now the good news is, I didn't respond. And I feel quite calm.

It was nice to hear those things and helpful, but I didn't feel the way I would have before house-gate.

He didn't mention the house in the email.

I didn't cry or feel bad, I felt really glad for him because he's needed help for a long time and I hope he gets it. It sounded genuinely like he finally wants it.

I went and unpacked another box in my new bedroom and felt pretty okay.

My new house is actually the nicest house I've ever lived in. It's by the sea and incredibly quiet. Just farms around.

There's blackberries outside everywhere and I was thinking about going to pick some.

I was also thinking about painting again. I was a pretty keen artist once.

I've felt this really strange thing happen over the last couple of weeks where my body calmed down.

I started to really enjoy simple things like a bath. This house isn't what I planned but I like it a lot.

It's a postcard English cottage. There's horses at the back of the garden.

I don't know why I'm rambling about geography but I thinks it's just that my mind has stopped racing!

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810331
default

Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 2:31 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

Great news! So just keep letting this beauty-filled, serene place be your New Beginning! You are very blessed to have found a place your heart may have been seeking all your life. I men, novels have been written about such places!

posts: 2061   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8810332
default

HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 4:00 AM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

I’m glad that I’ve misinterpreted everything and that it seems the spell has been broken. I am truly sorry for everything you are going through. I have kept a lot of my story private for many reasons, but I do understand a lot of what you’re dealing with.

Whatever path you decide, R or D, I just hope it’s from a place of healing and for what you want for yourself. Enjoy the scenery and the cottage.

Me mid 40s BH
Her mid 40s WW
1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 396   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8810339
default

Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 4:42 PM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

Well right now the good news is, I didn't respond. And I feel quite calm.

It was nice to hear those things and helpful, but I didn't feel the way I would have before house-gate.

I'm glad that you didn't respond. Detach from him. He needs to know that he can't manipulate you with his words. His actions do all the talking. This email he sent to you just seems like a further attempt at manipulating you to come back. These little extinction bursts are going to continue as you detach and separate from him. I mean, for goodness sake, I'm still kind of shocked by the extent to which his avoidant behavior stretches...Buying a house is a huge chore and he went to all this work to avoid dealing with his own shit, relying on a gesture to snake his way back into your life.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 667   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8810383
default

crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 5:52 PM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

Buying a house is a huge chore and he went to all this work to avoid dealing with his own shit, relying on a gesture to snake his way back into your life.

Agree with the above. MCC I would definitely try to detach and go NC for awhile so you can put some space to think clearly. I honestly think you will be better off leaving him, but I know it's difficult. Definitely look up trauma bonding as well. What you are going through is akin to kicking a heroin addiction.

fBS/fWS(me):50 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(20) DS(17)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
Divorcing

posts: 8804   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8810393
default

SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 6:48 PM on Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023

I'm so proud of you for not responding! Like, seriously proud. That's not easy.

Ideally, you'll stay quiet and watch what he does. Don't coach him. Don't encourage him. Don't pat him on the back. Just wait and see...

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1300   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8810398
default

 MintChocChip (original poster member #83762) posted at 8:23 AM on Wednesday, October 4th, 2023

Thanks again to everybody.

I am calm. Eating well, sleeping a lot, enjoying self care. I appreciate you all so much

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8810487
default

seizetheday ( new member #83712) posted at 7:54 AM on Thursday, October 26th, 2023

i am an US about a year and half from Dday.

My understanding is that you had previously agreed to buy a forever home together and he did not do that and you called him out on his lack of integrity. He then went a bought the house. His hiding and lying to you has also been a real issue for you. Looks like you have had some recent closeness and then he shared with you that he bought the house.

Its an interesting perspective from BB that your husband is treating you as an object making decisions on your behalf. The concept of agency is a good one that requires everyone to consider. I think that anytime we treat our partner as if they are a nobody and excluded from any decision making impacting both of us meets the definition of objectifying. Its what i did when i chose to cheat. It what my BS did during our separation when she threw out/ gave away things for free that were in our shared home.

From my recent life of an US my headspace in this situation would be.

" you have no integrity because you never bought the house we were going to get together" - oh no, she doesnt like me, she things i dont have integrity. i will show her. i will buy the house"

"we have had a good weekend together" - ohh that was a nice weekend. she likes me again. i want to keep on her good side. we've been talking about my lying and i havent told her that i have got the house yet. but we did have a nice weekend and this secret is killing me - and she might come back to me if I tell her i got the house.

So your husband would benefit by:

- stop seeking validation/approval from you or anyone else and be more desperate about being honest
- start building integrity by saying what he will do and then doing what he says
- reinforcing his committment to honesty by telling you any other secrets he has kept from you (financial, relational, etc)
- discussing and agreeing the immediate path on the house purchase including the possibility of immediately putting it back on the market.

towards healing.

Me - FWS

posts: 24   ·   registered: Aug. 10th, 2023
id 8812861
default

InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 11:48 PM on Saturday, October 28th, 2023

MCC, you have calmed down off your torrid posting pace of a couple months ago, I hope that is a sign of you being in a better place. How are you holding up?

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2106   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8813295
Topic is Sleeping.
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20240523a 2002-2024 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy