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Newest Member: chaoticdreamer

Just Found Out :
He doesn't even see what he did wrong.

Topic is Sleeping.

 KittKat (original poster new member #83935) posted at 12:57 AM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Hello everyone. I am new to the forums, so I want to share my story.

My husband and I have been together for 15 years and married for 6. I thought things were going smoothly for us---we never argued, we helped each other out and we were talking about our plans for the future. One thing that wasn't so great was our sex life. I brought up the subject on more than one occasion, but he would shut down the conversation quickly. "I'm just tired." "I'm stressed from work." And I would accept his reason and drop it for a while. That was until we started having difficulties in the bedroom. This happened in January and again in February of this year. "I think it just needs to be more organic," He told me. So I stopped trying to initiate things.

Five months passed and this "organic" he spoke of never occurred. I grew insecure and checked his computer where I found porn. It wasn't so much that which upset me, it was the fact he was still interested in sex, just not with me. I then checked his old phone, one he kept charged and in his night stand. I found out he was talking to a woman who lived an ocean away. They exchanged messages of friendly, intimate and sexual nature, photos, etc. I was crushed. After speaking with my family, I wrote out a letter and confronted him. His first response was, "What other woman?"

When I mentioned her by name, he dropped the act. He told me it was only a way to express his insecurities in a way that allowed him to maintain his anonymity. Told me they both had an understanding and that it wasn't a relationship. That it was all role play and the things they talked about were supposed to "bleed into the real world", make our relationship stronger. I accepted his words and although I was ready to walk out the door, I stayed--albeit in in another room. When I spoke to him about her again, I asked, "Do you love her?" He immediately responded, "No," with so much conviction that I believed him again.

Although I chose to stay in the house, the weight in my chest didn't go away. I was barely eating and found it difficult to breathe, to settle in my own home. I decided I would stay with my parents for a bit, just until I could gain some clarity, feel less overwhelmed. On the day I planned to tell him this, I went through his old phone again while he was at work. I found some things I didn't see the first time. A voice message proclaiming his love for her, a pie chart that said the same, more photos. Now I knew that he not only loved her, but he was lying to my face about it.

I packed up some things that very moment ready to leave him again. When he came home, he was unsure why I was packing. I told him what I found, but once again, he claimed it was a part of the role play. That he was just about to "invite me back to the bedroom" and thought things were getting better. This told me we were in very different places. I yelled and cried like I had never done in our relationship before. I refused to be someone's second choice.

While staying with my parents, he wrote to me. He expressed his love for me and his desire to "win me back". While he now admitted that he "undoubtedly had love for" this other woman, it wasn't a romantic love and she wasn't my replacement. He still claimed that although boundaries were crossed, there were still some in place and he maintained anonymity to some degree with her. After much back and forth, I had agreed to give us some time. Time to think, time to talk. He assured me I was the only one for him and that she was never "a threat to me."

As much as I felt like I had every reason to walk away, I just couldn't. He agreed to continued transparency of his devices and accepted that I would look through his phone and computer. I found saved pictures of her in his email, but I deleted them since they were from months prior to the discovery. Although he gave up his devices willingly, he had already deleted the conversations with her and said that he erased her from his whatsapp so he could no longer get in contact with her.

I urged him to write her and end things for me to see, but he brushed it off, never giving me true closure in that regard. For all I knew he could continue his conversations with her and just delete them daily. He didn't see it that way. Didn't understand that there was nothing stopping her from reaching out again whenever she felt like it. Regardless of this, we started to talk more and had a "date."

One month after the initial discovery, I went on his computer once again and found the missing piece. It was a love letter written for her birthday of 25 things he loved about her. This letter revealed ever lie he told me after discovery and answered a lot of my questions. There was no anonymity between them, unless you count the fact they had never met in person--only for the fact that she lived an ocean away. In his own words he told her that she broke down every wall he ever had. That she meant everything to him. She was the first thing he thought about when he woke up in the morning. Never mind his wife sleeping in the bed next to him with a pillow wall of his own construction between us. He told her that he compartmentalized all his other relationships to the roles they play in his life, but he could never do that to her. He wanted her to know all of him.

I realized then that this woman knew my husband better than I did. That he shared more with her than he ever did me. I felt like the other woman. It was clear that no amount of talking and placating words would change the fact that he loved this woman more than it seemed he loved me. That if we stayed together I would be compared to her in our relationship--I would be the consolation prize.

I told him I'm done; it's over. But even saying the words, knowing it to be what I feel is best, it's still hard. He responded that while heartbroken, he understood. He still believes we could work through it, but will work with me for the divorce "if that is what I truly want." His words of subtle blame-shifting make me believe he doesn't really understand the weight of his actions. That although he says he is working on "taking accountability for his actions," he doesn't understand the complete betrayal. I wonder if things were opposite, would he still be feeling so sure that we could make it through this and be stronger for it? I understand now that we had some communications issues, but its not fair for him to focus on those alone, saying all the ways he would fix them to make the relationship stronger when the whole reason I am done trying is because he fell in love with another woman.

I want to yell at him more, try to make him understand, but I know that won't help. He has gone no contact since I told him I was done. He said he is hurting, which I understand, but it makes me feel like the villain of this story. Anyway, I just needed to get this off my chest; the weight of this whole thing is suffocating.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2023
id 8809672

fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 1:49 AM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023


Welcome to SI! Very sorry you are going through this betrayal, but you will receive good support. Read in the healing library and the pinned threads. Take care of you and your health. See an attorney and begin the D process. I takes time to D in case your WH somehow makes a miraculous turnaround. Do get into IC. You have suffered a real trauma as your WH trickle-truthed his online A in a cruel manner. I think you have a better idea of his capacity for betrayal and infidelity. He was denying you sex while engaging in sexting with his AP. Extremely selfish and deceitful. We don’t know him, but based on his capacity to lie to your face, I would not be surprised if he has not cheated before.

Never feel like the villain. Nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused him to cheat. It is typical when a cheater is caught to rewrite the marital history and blameshift. You are not a perfect partner. No one is. But you do not control his behavior. He is responsible for his actions.

Take care of your health. Exercise, eat healthy, stay away from alcohol or drugs and get good sleep.

He tells you he is hurting? Does he think he can appeal to your caring nature and that you will ignore his betrayal? Laughable.

Importantly, try to go no contact as much as possible. Only contact about D matters or finances. Business-like. If you continue to engage he will just try to hurt you. Get the D process going with your attorney. Take time to grieve the loss of your M. But take action and be active as you can. You will get through this. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:51 AM, Thursday, September 28th]

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3892   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8809679

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 2:23 AM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Do you know why he is so invested in this long distance relationship? It is because he can live inside his fantasies. Real life is hard for him so he uses a woman he will never meet as his sweetheart. His inability to devote to you has nothing to do with you. Any woman he married would be treated the same way.
I don’t know if you have ever seen anatomically realistic "dolls" but they are life sized and many have sexual parts. The men who own them cannot manage real relationships and that is what I think might be why your ws has this fake relationship.
You will be so much happier once you accept that this is not about you. It is about something missing in him.
It is time for you to focus on getting on with your life.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4253   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8809683

MintChocChip ( member #83762) posted at 3:29 AM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Let's start with saying I agree with the above post and I think he's created a fantasy. I dont think you can "love" someone you've never met.

Think of her not as a real person, but more as a sort of diary he writes in, where he can be a version of himself that he likes better.

Likewise, he cannot "love" her because he doesn't know her. He knows an online avatar where hid mind can make her into anything he wants.

Do you know how his relationship with her started to begin with?

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8809689

 KittKat (original poster new member #83935) posted at 3:46 AM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Do you know how his relationship with her started to begin with?

He started talking to her 5 years ago when they met on a site for people who want to meet other people from different countries and learn different languages. I knew he was helping people with English, but I didn’t know the extent of the conversations he had with them.

I know of one other relationship that could probably be in the category of an emotional affair, but she was married so there was a more solid line. (Found out about her around the same time). With this one though, he told me the relationship crossed into more intimate and sexual nature around 9 months ago, which works out to have been November/December time frame of last year. Come to find out that’s what he said because his old phone only had messages from that point since he got a new phone..

In his letter, he reveals he started to develop more romantic feelings around the previous Valentine’s Day, but it took a bit more talking for the feeling to be disclosed as mutual between them. Once they said it once, it seems they just really leaned into it.

Even though they haven’t met, even if it is a fantasy world between the two of them, they still shared I love yous, heartfelt conversations, sexual intimacy (online though it may be) where I was getting nothing. He neglected our marriage in favor of her and to me that’s real enough.

[This message edited by KittKat at 3:49 AM, Thursday, September 28th]

posts: 6   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2023
id 8809691

Sick2Death ( member #24681) posted at 4:49 AM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023


My WH did the exact same thing Summer of 2022. They exchanged I love you’s, talked about the future… and had never met in person. He talked and communicated more to her than me. I didn’t realize the extent because he was doing this on his work phone so I had no call logs etc to search through. They communicated while he drove to work every morning, during the day and on the way home from his work. I even found messages that he sent to her about funny facts that I had sent him earlier that same day. I snapped the night I found receipts from gifts he purchased and mailed her for Christmas. He had also created a separate email account just for them to communicate love letters. He literally looked at me and said he loved us both 🤷‍♀️.

I’m 9 mos into this latest disaster and I still struggle to wrap my head around this. But I did message her on her phone and FB that he told me he loves her and she could have him but he wouldn’t have much. She also worked for a state mental health agency (I was collecting info on them) and asked her if she was running a mental health scam. She dropped him like a hot potato and blocked him. It may have scared her 😂.

I have saved on his phone and have screen shots on mine of the messages I was able to find( he deleted most). He has reread them from time to time and can’t believe he was willing to risk losing everything for someone he never met.

Anyway, we are working on figuring it all out. He sees his IC biweekly. When I am ready to move forward we will see a MC.

Hang in there. One way or another we all get through this to the other side.

BS Me 53 WH 55 Married 29 years

posts: 56   ·   registered: Jul. 4th, 2009
id 8809693

Abcd89 ( member #82960) posted at 12:12 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

My husband did similar. They never met and with hindsight I’m not convinced she was real. I was so stressed it took me ages to realise this but her online presence (or lack of) screams scam artist to me.

Are you positive this woman is real - the length scammers go to is unbelievable. They can send photos and even video footage. Apparently if you send your picture/video footage/voice message to a scammer they sometimes use that picture/video to send to another person they are scamming! That stops reverse image searches from working as the photo is unique.

Regardless he still betrayed you and getting out of the situation is in your best interest. He has serious character flaws. His decision to remain in fantasy land with a stranger he has never met is your reason for leaving. And it’s a good reason. She is not real and he can portray whoever he wants to be. They don’t sit and discuss next weeks dinner or what bills need to be paid. Pheromones and attraction play such a large part in relationships. He’s in fantasy land avoiding reality. If you think carefully you may see his other flaws. Addictions maybe. Living in his own head. Overthinking. Etc.

He needs to come to reality and you leaving may be the best chance he has. Assuming she is real Is the online woman married? If so I’d send copies to her partner and let him in on the situation. At that point the fantasy may disappear quickly as she may focus on her real life as it crashes down around her.

posts: 124   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023
id 8809696

 KittKat (original poster new member #83935) posted at 12:49 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023


I don’t believe she is a scammer. The length of time he’s been talking to her, the information they have shared and the website they met on lead me to believe she is real. They have even discussed her family in great detail with video to go along with it. She made him a video for his birthday and as far as I know he never sent her anything of monetary value (although we have separate accounts, so I can’t say 100%).

I don’t believe she is married simply because the letter he wrote her was for her 25th birthday which means they would have met when she was 20. I found her Facebook, but it’s practically empty. I did manage to reach out to one other girl he’s spoken to from the same website (the one he called a best friend and admitted to being jealous when she started confiding in someone in her real life instead of him) and she told me that she assumed he was single when they spoke. She couldn’t remember if he outright said he was, but he obviously didn’t tell her he was seeing anyone, so I believe he probably did the same with this other girl. He claims he told her, but that’s debatable.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2023
id 8809698

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 1:57 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Your H knows what he did was wrong.

He just doesn’t want to admit it to you.

And therein lies the problem.

I was in your shoes for 20 years. My H had a long 4 year EA (in person) that I knew was going on and he refused to admit.

Soooo…….,long story short you are facing a nightmare in that this will continue unless he STOPS hiding behind the "I didn’t cheat" shield.

We all know he did.

If it wasn’t cheating why wasn’t he sharing his messages with you? Because he knew it was wrong.

You need counseling for yourself. Forget trying to change him or have him "get it". I spent decades on that position and it didn’t work.

You know what did work? The hard 180. And counseling for myself. Turning my back and refusing to engage in a marriage where there is lying, cheating and disrespect.

You need to get real. He’s not changing!!

So you have to decide what you want going forward.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13946   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8809709

Shehawk ( member #68741) posted at 2:27 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

"I dont think you can "love" someone you've never met."

I agree with this.

I wish you peace and healing as you go through this tough time. You did nothing to deserve this terrible situation. People on here are really supportive and helped me through the terrrible situation I found myself.

To me real love is the day to day messy business of life.

It can be hard, and it’s not for everyone. The internet has allowed people who don’t want to have sex with their spouses to get lots of attention from randoms. I think the internet is a catalyst or a means, but not the root cause of so many marriage breakups.

The important thing I learned is that I only want to be in a relationship with a man who pours his sexual and intimate partner relationship emotional energy in my direction. And me the same. That was my hard line in the sand.

Everyone’s situation and perspective are different. But know that you do deserve to be treated better.

"It's a slow fade...when you give yourself away" so don't do it!

posts: 1660   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2018   ·   location: VA
id 8809712

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:59 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Look – as long as he sees nothing wrong with his actions there is no way you can recover this relationship.
At the same time: As long as you think this relationship with this woman is wrong there is no way you can have a good marriage.

It is possible that he doesn’t see this as wrong.
This is a major stumbling block for emotional affairs…
Even trained marriage counselors tended to minimize them for a very very long time. The groundbreaking work of Dr. Shirley Glass (of Not Just Friends fame) was done in the 1980’s – and that’s not really that long ago.

I for one think this is a scam. Despite the bday gift, despite not knowing if funds have been transferred. I find it extremely strange that a young woman (20 to 25 now) hangs on to a man that was this much older. I think she (heck… could even be a he with a fake account) isn’t real per se, and that at some time she will sink her hook into him – be it with finances, threats of exposure or whatever. These scammers have extensive experience in when to reel in, when to offer slack and how to keep their fish on the hook.

But… She’s not the problem… Scam or not.
HE is the problem, and his lack of realization that this is going to end his marriage.

You say he’s in NC. With whom? You or the OW?

My suggestion… well… it’s basically the same I offer most posters here on this site:
Set him free.

Tell him something along these lines:

"Husband. Both the fact that you are having an emotional affair with OW and the fact you don’t realize the damage it does and how wrong it is means our marriage isn’t real. At best I’m sharing you with someone else. I DO NOT SHARE HUSBANDS.

Therefore I am setting you free. You claim to be in NC with her. Well… for all I care you can talk to her daily, visit her, have her over (but not in my house), tell your friends and family about her… basically start your life with her. BUT NOT AS MY HUSBAND.
I am also releasing myself from any obligation I have as a wife and partner.

I am starting the process of detaching and divorce. The legal process should be fair for both of us and we will let professional advice make that so.
There is no rush. We unavoidably need to cohabit for some time, but I have no interest in furthering our relationship nor do I have plans to be "friends" and/or behave as if I am happy with what you are doing. I am content with my decision, but it is undeniably a consequence of your decisions.

If you want a chance to save this marriage then you need to do some things:
You need to get the book "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass and read it front to cover.
You need to find an IC and talk about the book and your issues with that IC.
You need to find an MC that I would approve of and arrange sessions where we address how to deal with your emotional affair and how our marriage could recover.
You need to show me provable and accountable NC with the OW.

Remember – I am NOT stopping you from being with her. I AM stopping you from being with me while you are with her"

And then you just move on. Go make a sandwich or whatever. Don’t discuss her, the marriage, next summers vacation… None of that concerns you until or unless he commits. If he doesn’t… you keep your pace at ending this marriage because it’s then clear he has no interest in being there.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12440   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8809716

 KittKat (original poster new member #83935) posted at 4:27 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

He told me that he stopped talking to her, but in reality he only deleted the messages he shared with her. He didn’t delete his WhatsApp account or the app itself; he didn’t send her a message to end things. Just said he was done talking to her and that it was easier than he ever thought possible to do so.

While he says the things I want to hear to my face, the letter he wrote her tells a different story. How he hoped to maintain their relationship for years to come, that if something were to tear them apart (I put myself in this role) that he would never forget her—after all she is everything to him and he "loves her with his whole heart".

At the moment, we are the ones who are NC and since I am out of the house, I have no idea if he’s gotten back in touch with her. She lives in another time zone, so the hours they spoke were odd anyway. He would be up late at night exchanging messages, which is why I believe he built the pillow wall between us even if he claims it was for a different reason. This way if I woke up and found him on his phone ( which I did prior to the wall), I wouldn’t see exactly what he was doing. At the time I just thought he couldn’t sleep, but that was before all this came to light.

As for the age difference, it’s really only eight years which I don’t think is that outrageous even if me and him are only a month apart.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2023
id 8809732

Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 4:47 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

I am sorry, Kittkat. This is the harsh reality in the age of social media and you are not alone. We have not been trained how to use social media wisely and the insecure, immature ones amongst us have discovered a whole new world of fantasy and a means to act out in ways they wouldn’t do in real life.

It is a pity that all the energy and emotions have been diverted away from living breathing emotionally healthy partner . I hear you and I feel your pain. I have been there too. Real life relationships take work, these virtual ones don’t.

This is an addiction. I don’t see anything changing unless he realizes he is an addict indulging in unhealthy behavior. You have to move forward on your own and protect your interests. Do not waste anymore time trying to get him to understand. The sooner you get out the better it is for you to heal and find someone that is healthy enough to value real life relationships and intimacy.

Lots of hugs to you.

posts: 284   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8809739

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 6:41 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

I think you could move out and he might not even notice.

The pillow wall is where I think he really crossed the line. He’s texting the OW next to you in bed. 😡😡

Geez and I thought I had heard and seen everything.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13946   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8809767

trustedg ( member #44465) posted at 8:06 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

Great replies so far.

You might want to separate finances quickly in case he decides to send her money.

IC helped me, wasn't a miracle fix but helped.

Me BWHim WH DDay 12/2012Married a long time, in R

posts: 2362   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2014
id 8809781

 KittKat (original poster new member #83935) posted at 9:03 PM on Thursday, September 28th, 2023

We have always had separate finances, but he would talk about his savings with me openly. We’re supposed to be saving for a new house in a location that was a bit more active for my job field. The only thing we have under both our names is the house.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2023
id 8809790

SerJR ( member #14993) posted at 12:35 AM on Friday, September 29th, 2023

Welcome here little sister...

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. You've gotten some great advice, and you seem to have your shit together.

Please understand that your WH's behaviour is entirely on him. You did nothing to cause him to have an affair. If he was feeling empty within himself he had plenty of options to take - talking to you, counseling, etc., but he chose to take a selfish and destructive path. This is not yours to own. You are simply making a choice to move forward from the pain.

For now, put the focus where it belongs. On yourself and on your healing. Learn about yourself and what you need, and how to respect both. Surround yourself with healthy and enriching relationships, and nurture your sense of self empowerment to grow and evolve as a person. Be your genuine self and be true to who you are. Read and post as much as you need, get counseling if needed, and monitor your sleep, diet, and exercise. See a lawyer to find out what your rights are. If you're looking for more ideas, please check out the Healing Library, particularly the articles about the 180 for a way to detach and refocus yourself. Rant and yell here - it can be incredibly therapeutic!

It's an emotional rollercoaster, and it's going to take time and effort to work through this. It's perfectly normal to feel sad, angry, scared, lost, and pretty much anything else. Just have a little faith that you will heal and be patient with yourself.

You're gonna be okay.

[This message edited by SerJR at 12:36 AM, Friday, September 29th]

Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

posts: 18627   ·   registered: Jun. 15th, 2007   ·   location: Further North than South
id 8809816

CoderMom ( member #66033) posted at 3:25 AM on Sunday, October 1st, 2023

I hope you find some peace and healing and answers you are seeking. Have you thought about counseling?

posts: 353   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Eastern States
id 8810088

 KittKat (original poster new member #83935) posted at 3:38 AM on Monday, October 2nd, 2023

I have started individual counseling; tomorrow will be my second session. Too early to tell if it’s helping, but I hope it will.

Thank you all for the support.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2023
id 8810189
Topic is Sleeping.
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