SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are still in the stage where all you want is for all this to have never happened. You can’t put it back the way it was so you are grieving the loss of a marriage. It hurts. No one wants to think their loved one yearns for another.
When there is chaos in the life of a child they try to make sense of it but can’t. They don’t have the life experience, the vocabulary, the wisdom to understand anything. They begin to protect themselves any way they can. What they are doing is maladaptive. They retreat. They duck their heads and if they are hit they shut down. I don’t know your stories but I assume both of you come from families where you perceived it was dangerous to confront. The only way through is to put mental barriers up. This is why IC is more important than MC right now. If you don’t fix what brought both of you to this point you will continue doing it with whomever you have in your lives.

The more I think about what happened today the more uneasy I am about what's going on.

This is your gut warning you. Everyone of us here have learned to never dismiss our gut feeling. During my WW's A I could explain away and make justifications for glaring evidence. My gut knew, but I was in denial, I'm so thankful for the members here that saw through the predictable bullshit and led me out of infidelity. We want the best outcome for you.

You mentioned working out, that was the best medicine for me. It pulled me out of depression and I lost 50lbs. Getting to my goal weight boosted my confidence and I got my self esteem back.

Are you sure this affair stared after your September dispute? It's totally possible this started before the dispute. Many times, cheaters become distant, cold, make issue out of everything and fight with their partner a lot during their affairs. And, cheaters usually lie about the length of their affairs. This is usually their second lie (first being the denial of the affair). Poly will help you find out the length of the affair.

Hey All,

Thanks again for the support. I agree that there is a big part of me that just wants to get rid of the reality of the situation and get back to being a better couple right away. But things need to be settled and worked on. I really don't like looking at my wife as a liar, but I can't take what she says at face value until trust is built.

She agreed to a polygraph test and I booked one for next Saturday (the 10th). I was very direct that if anything new came out of it which made the situation worse, like her contacting him in the last few weeks or there was more than an online affair, that it would be the end of our marriage.

When I brought that up, she admitted that she also talked trash about my drinking to him a lot. She also admitted the flirting started earlier than she originally said. Finally she admitted she has some lingering feelings for him, and wishes she could talk to him because its easy to speak to him, but she said she knows its for the best they never communicate again and that she wants to be with me. None of these confessions are really a deal breaker, as I already asssumed them to be true. I was just waiting for her to admit it. And it makes sense to have a longing when an emotional affair ends.

Shes still adament she never has contacted AP since I found out about the A, and that the AP's wife did message her yesterday/ showed a notification of my message to her. Also I tried to add the AP's wife on linkedin, and she dismissed my request, she also has posted on instagram stories several times since I initially reached out. So its feeling more likely that she could just be avoiding my messages/replying back.

I am definitely going to ask these questions along with the timeline of when things happened at the polygraph. Plus inquire about other possible infidelities.

That being said I won't punish her for any thoughts shes had that is revealed during the polygraph test. I don't think our thoughts to define who we are. But I will end things if any additional actions are revealed.

Probably going to ghost this site a bit, but everything she is saying will come to light next week. I am taking everthing with a grain of salt and being cautious. Until then I am working on me.

[This message edited by Tav3n at 3:03 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

Most ws agree to a polygraph. Because saying no obviously looks like they're lying still.

Be prepared for a parking lot confession. It's when a ws drops a huge truth bomb right before the polygraph, hoping their bs will think they have the entire truth. Always follow through with the test.

oh definitely. I guess, if I get a parking lot confession, what is the best way to deal with that? Like if she says something really bad do I still hold that against her because she came clean before the test?

I may have said already that its much better to come clean before about anything instead of during the test, because if I find out something during the test that makes our situation worse then we are done.

[This message edited by Tav3n at 3:15 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

I am definitely going to ask these questions along with the timeline of when things happened at the polygraph.

You usually get 3-5 questions for a polygraph as any more than that affects accuracy. Get the timeline beforehand and use one of the questions to verify.

If you get a confession beforehand adjust your questions as needed but follow through with the poly. Some waywards make partial confessions in hopes of getting the poly cancelled.

The polygraph is so you have a foundation of truth. It doesn't absolve her of anything.

If she confesses more,the importance of those details,and what you do with them is up to you.

Passing the polygraph means she's been honest about the basics. The affair still happened. She still did it. She still has a ton of work to do.

One thing many BS do is, they have their WS write a complete,detailed timeline. Then they go over it with their WS,and ask if it's the entire truth,and if they have held anything back. Then,one of the polygraph questions can be, "is the timeline you gave your husband the entire truth?"

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:58 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

So, I believe its 3 questions. I am thinking of asking;

1) Since May 17th, after you told your husband you blocked AP on all forms of contact, have you communicated with AP?

2) When did your communication with AP begin to cross a line into an emotional affair?

3) Since the beginning of the relationship. have you ever had physical sexual contact with anyone other than your husband?

[This message edited by Tav3n at 4:42 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

2 isn’t a great question because there is a lot of room for nuance/self-interpretation in it. You can imagine that there is likely not one specific moment but a gradual slippery slope. You want to pick a question that could be answered with a yes/no or a one-word very specific answer. This question, practically begs for a drawn out "well…(followed by a drawn out rambling response). Questions like that are not well-suited for a polygraph. I think the better way to handle this if you wish to ask it is to have her answer the question beforehand in detail, perhaps in writing, and then ask something like "was the answer you gave me regarding when the emotional affair began correct, complete, and accurate?" Or maybe, if you are able to establish a date beforehand, ask "did any emotional line crosses occur before date X?" I still think the latter example could potentially involve a bit of nuance as it may be that her idea of what an emotional line cross is differs from yours.

With the idea that different terms can mean different things to different people in mind, I also think you should make "physical sexual contact" in question 3 a defined term. If you mean things like consensual fondling, kissing, etc. the say so. I, for example, have been accosted on public transit and had male acquaintances or colleagues do borderline stuff like touch my back when passing for a beat too long etc .. I also have a few friends who do the European cheek kiss thing. I assume you are not referring to stuff like that.

Question 2 won't work,because her answers have to be yes,or no.

I encourage you to do as I suggested, and have her write a complete timeline, and base your number 2 question on that.

So I actually get 4 questions, I just clarified, and thank you all for telling me it has to be yes or no. So I am thinking now the questions are

1) Since May 17th, after you told your husband you blocked AP on all forms of contact, have you had any communication with AP?

2) Did APs wife contact you on June 1st showing, partially, the affair confession message your husband sent her?

3) Since the beginning of the relationship with your husband, have you ever had any inappropriate physical or emotional interaction with another person, including kissing, fondling, intercourse, flirty messages or sexual messages with anyone other than AP?

4) Currently, is there any part of you that wishes to be in a relationship with AP instead of your husband?

Shes writing the timeline to me now I think, depending on what is revealed I may replace #2 with a timeline question.

[This message edited by Tav3n at 8:11 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

Also, and I am sure some of you won't approve, but if she admits anything between now and a week from today, I am going to tell her it won't cause me to seek a divorce.

Im sure she will say some hurtful things between now and then (and already has admitted to more things she lied previously about in the last 24 hours). But if she is truthful, remoseful and showing that her actions are behind her, then I feel good to just start rebuilding, assuming the polygraph test goes smoothly.

If she lies about anything on the poly, or I discover something I should have know, or if she refuses to take the test last minute then we are done. I already have a plan to move into my friends place and which divorce lawyers I am going to contact the Monday after the poly exam.

[This message edited by Tav3n at 8:44 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

Don't make that deal. Just don't. She may have had sex with someone else..or several men..then you would feel obligated to stay.

Question 1: Since dating your husband,have you had a sexual relationship with anyone else?

Since dating your husband,have you had an inappropriate relationship with anyone else?

#3..is the timeline you gave your husband, complete,and honest?

#4..are you still withholding the truth about any contact with OM?

You can't ask questions based on feelings,just fact.

Your #3 is very broad..she could fail it and then tell you it was a stranger who grabbed her, and kissed her in a bar,when it could have been sex with someone else.

The contact with OBS can factor into the question asking if the timeline was complete and honest.

Also, and I am sure some of you won't approve, but if she admits anything between now and a week from today, I am going to tell her it won't cause me to seek a divorce.

Actually, an amnesty period with the goal of getting it all out in the open in support of attempting R isn’t unusual around here.

With regard to your questions, an experienced operator will usually help you form them for maximum accuracy, including defining terms beforehand so there’s no wiggle room.

Also, and I am sure some of you won't approve, but if she admits anything between now and a week from today, I am going to tell her it won't cause me to seek a divorce

.

Never promise anything you can't fulfill. She might have done something so bad, so unimaginable, and so out of character, you might not be able to reconcile with it. So, don't make such promises. I have never seen amnesty period working out for BS. I have yet to see WS using amnesty to come completely clean.

You just inform her that the more honest she is, the possibility of reconciliation is higher. Just tell her that marriages die not because of affairs but because of trickle truth and complete dishonesty. She just needs to realize only her honesty and loyalty can give this marriage a chance of reconciliation.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 10:23 PM, Friday, June 2nd]

Hello there. I just want to chime in about MC. I understand that many here don’t think it’s a good idea to start MC right away. However, I can now safely say it has been very helpful for us. This isn’t some hard and fast rule that everyone needs to abide by. Is it true that, in some situations, it might be counterproductive? I’m sure it is, but that isn’t always the case.

My husband and I are 6 months out and we have found it incredibly helpful. We have gone every week for about 5 months now. I’m in IC, my husband is in IC, and my husband is also working the 12 steps for sex addiction and is in an intensive (18 month out patient) program for sex addiction. Our MC has NEVER blamed me. If she were to do that, neither one of us would be continuing with her. It has just been one more VERY useful tool in our toolbox as we move forward. And by "move forward" I mean just that. I’m not sure yet if that means together, separated, divorced, friends, strangers, etc. But my husband has been the most important relationship in my life and MC is my way of honoring that, no matter the outcome. Yes, I know, he didn’t honor our relationship when he acted out. But, we control what we can, and getting in touch with who we are as a couple has been very useful for me. We’ve learned a ton.

This has been stated as such a hard and fast rule on this forum that I have checked in with many people about it - my IC, my husband’s IC, and some folks in a 12 step program for spouses of sex addicts. Every other person has been much less extreme about it. They have said that it depends on a lot of things. And, as a long time member of the 12 step program said to me, "I really don’t understand how someone could give that advice with so much certainty. If you find it helpful, do it. If not, stop." These opinions seem much more balanced to me.

I understand it is common to say: the marriage didn’t cheat, he did. Yes, that’s DEFINATELY true, by why does that fact negate MC? As long as you find a therapist that doesn’t place blame on the BS, why does that matter?

I really hope this isn’t coming off as rude. I SO value all of you and the support and advice I’ve been given. However, I am feeling an obligation to at least share my experience.

Slight t/j

(Posting as a member)

ForestFirePine:

I think you make a valid point about MC. You are not the first BS to relate positive results from MC. Of course there is no hard and fast rules that apply to every couple in every situation. The advice offered is based on hard won experience, but the saying here is to take what you need and leave the rest. Many BS here have had negative experiences with MC and wish every BS to avoid them if possible. IMO the best course is to keep in mind the advice of the possible perils and pitfalls of any counseling, MC or otherwise. Forewarned is fore-armed. But the BS always makes the final decision on what is right for them in their situation. Thank for sharing your perspective.

I have checked in with many people about it - my IC, my husband’s IC, and some folks in a 12 step program for spouses of sex addicts. Every other person has been much less extreme about it. They have said that it depends on a lot of things

I would imagine that all of those people are assuming the WS is fully remorseful, and committed not to "just staying married," but truly working on themselves.

Many ws take awhile to reach true remorse.

We've seen it here,many times. Many MC don't encourage transparency. They tell the WS to stop answering questions, and tell the bs to stop asking them. They also believe the BS played a 50% role in the Ws choice to cheat.

Take an unremorseful to an MC like that and while your husband wouldn't have allowed it Many WS will latch onto all of that. They don't want to answer questions, and they blame the BS. So to hear a "professional " agree with all of that,only encourages them more. They will tell the BS they won't answer questions, no transparency, and it doesn't matter what the BS needs,the professional says it's not ok. Even a new MC saying the opposite, won't matter.

A bad MC can do an enormous amount of damage to a BS.

That's why, IMO, MC isn't a good idea in the beginning. Give the ws some time to work in themselves in IC first, and develop true remorse. Then MC.

The key for MC to be successful IMHO is to understand why you are there. It’s not because one cheated or to "fix" whatever was wrong that "made" the WS "have to" cheat. The main goal of all MC is to teach couples how to openly communicate – as in BOTH speak and LISTEN.

Look – IMHO you are rushing things a bit too fast. To me that’s evident in the questions you are preparing for the polygraph. These machines are so misunderstood… They aren’t some truth-serum but rather a way to evaluate honesty. That’s why a good operator (and these machines are only as good as the operator) will define a maximum of 5 questions, two of them more-or-less being the same thing asked in two different ways. The operator will spend up to an hour explaining the process to the one being questioned, explaining terms and phrases (this is how I define sex, this is how I define contact…) and explain the result to the one demanding the poly. If he can the questioner will sneak in a question that he already knows the answer to but is unexpected to the person being tested.

These are pure yes and no and factual questions. No "did you love OM" but rather "since 01.01.23 have you had any contact (as we defined contact) with OM".

About the grace period… It’s so important. It’s equally important to let your wife know that any truths NOW can be dealt with.