SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Also curious to know if you told your WW about reaching out to the OM wife.

Either way, she got pissed showing the ongoing affair was probably on her mind and you ruined the fun for her telling the wife. It will be way harder for that to continue now that both sides have a grip on what is going on.

She tells you she is very sorry and willing to do everything to fix what she did but then you want to have a go at her phone to check if all is going accordingly and she flips about it.

Flips about you telling the OM wife. Flips about you wanting to check the phone on your own. But wants to do "everything she can to try and fix what she did".

Do you see the pattern here? I do believe that unfortunately there is more to it than what she has told you.

That is why we are saying you need to protect yourself. Taking your time away from her. So you can think with more clarity. We have been there and we have done that. It is a shitshow. And while the WSs are in looney land they can't see sh#t from reality even if it is right there in front of their eyes.

Stick to the plan. Stand your ground. Look for the ACTIONS not the words.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 6:37 AM, Sunday, November 27th]

I spoke to the OMW for hours tonight. She had no idea. She said she called him after she got my first text and he was literally in tears. He was remorseful right off the bat. He also said he has been worried sick waiting for me to call her. So in a way I am glad I waited 3 weeks knowing it was eating him alive.

Their stories are consistent, and I truly believe that they never met in person. But as the truth is coming out, I unfortunately am learning that my WW was the aggressor.

So tonight I told her how much of a horrible disgusting person she is. I told her I want her out of this house and I never want to see her again. I said all the things I have bottled up for 3 weeks. Probably too much. I told her this is no longer her family and she is no longer welcome in this house.

Now that I got it all out, moving to no contact.

[This message edited by RoverGuy at 7:12 AM, Sunday, November 27th]

Has she indicated she will cooperate with the divorce?

She clearly doesn’t handle rejection well and you said she had choice words for AP after he just didn’t wanna see her. How will she take a full blown NC divorce?

I feel really bad for you. This was all moving at a rate of knots which suggested you were in panic mode even though you were taking all the right logical steps. I hope you can get some relief soon from the stress.
My ex used Whatsapp ~ apparently it is a favorite amongst cheaters as it is encrypted. They really do think they are clever clogs dont they. This to me just reinforces the underlying sense of superiority and entitlement.
Other favourites include online games with chat functions. I couldn't work out why my ex was suddenly so desperate to play monopoly and chess online.
Ergh...
Good luck and do your breathing exercises.

I’m sorry it’s come to this. You can see, however, that while your emotions have been on a roller coaster, you’ve received consistent advice here. You just posted that she was 100 percent remorseful and now you’re kicking her out of the house.

This of course doesn’t mean that you can’t eventually try to R, but you do realize that your WW must seriously work on herself through IC. This could take years, and still she may never change. If you decide to pursue R, it’s simply a risk you must be willing to undertake. She was no more remorseful in your posts days ago, the most recent one, and in any ones in the near future. You will not see real remorse, coming from this specific woman, until perhaps years from now, if you will ever see it at all.

Critically, while it’s totally normal for you to be riding the emotional roller coaster, hopefully you see now that you are leading yourself astray by incorrectly evaluating your WW’s remorse, willingness to change, etc.

She’s been lying to you and manipulating you and you’ve been falling for it - go back snd read your posts. Now, as you move forward with kicking her out of the house, etc., wait for further manipulate acts from her. Please do not fall for her games again.

Common cheater mentality is that if there is no sex, there is no affair. In their minds, they did not cheat.

Finding out your spouse was the aggressor just adds fuel to the fire. When I found out that my H initiated contact with the OW, it really opened my eyes as to who he really was.

I initially assumed the OW initiated the first contact.

Having that information really clarified things for me.

After I thought about it, it did not make much difference in the end (to me). The truth is he cheated and chose to cheat. It didn’t matter if the OW was lying naked in front of him. He chose to cheat.

It took time to get past it - and it wasn’t easy. But in my case that was a minor detail IMO. The fact he was D me to be with the OW was far worse.

Are you asking her to move out because she was upset you contacted the OBS? I’m not sure what changed for you after talking to his wife. Is it that she was the aggressor? You knew that from her confession I thought?

I’m not saying she shouldn’t go. I’ve thought that you should D from the start. Just trying to understand what changed for you after your conversation last night.

Well the claim that it "would never cross that line" has been laid to waste, if indeed she were the aggressor, she most likely planned to.

Sorry it turned into a bigger shit show, but the one thing is you got to more of the truth than many do this quickly. And you no longer need to fight the battle in your head over D or R.

With luck she won't turn it into a bigger train wreck than she's already caused. She said she would accept a D as a consequence before, maybe, and I doubt it, she was actually being honest for once.

She is going to need to do a lot of work on herself.

[This message edited by LegsWideShut at 2:13 PM, Sunday, November 27th]

So I texted the OM's wife tonight. She didn't know. She does now.

I spoke to the OMW for hours tonight

I'm proud of you brother. thats was the right thing to do.

So I immediately asked her to move out. That I was done.

Why the sudden move? did you see anything in her whatsapp that gave you a different picture?

Not that it matters much at this point but if you want another shot at getting those messages see if OBS can get them from OM.

So I texted the OM's wife tonight. She didn't know. She does now. My WW is pissed I did that. I also asked my WW if I could see her phone. She gave it to me and gave me her code and the first app I see is whatsapp. She also wouldn't let me see her phone unless she was there with me.

So I immediately asked her to move out. That I was done.

So much for being "100% remorseful", most of us here on SI could see through that, but I understand this is a personal journey. OTOH this is why we emphasize so much on full exposure from the get go, especially with OBS, once the A is confirmed, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the sooner full exposure is done the better, once done, typically the dynamic changes immediately, in most cases the AP dumps the WS right away in an effort to save their own M.

Your WW is light years away from being remorseful and not a good candidate for R by a very long shot, apparently based on what you posted they were still in touch via WhatsApp and if so the A was still ongoing and just went deep underground. Do not trust her and take anything from her at face value, run everything by your attorney, keep posting frequently.

You did the correct thing. But notice that the OM saying to his wife he is remorseful is as much of a value as your wife saying the same to you. And you did just see how that went.

Don´t get fixated on the OM. Worry about you. And worry about getting out of infidelity. You say you are going with the D. It takes time. If for some reason your wife becomes truly remorseful she will want to do everything in her power to let you know she fucked up and that she is really remorseful and willing to go the lenght to do the work to fix herself. You will notice that. D can always be reversed while the proccedings are still going. hell, you can even date her again after the procedings, if you so choose for and things went that way.

Don´t fall for the easy "I´m sorry, I´m really sorry for the pain I´ve caused you". Followed by attemps of sex like you have never experienced before. Don´t fall for that. Love bombing. It is all it is. It is also one from the cheaters book. So she may try to win you back and still try to take the affair depper underground. Her acts already proven she can´t be trusted at the moment. And that she is not really willing to fix herself at the moment. That is why many stress the "look for the actions and not the words" thing.

Take a step back. Don´t see the D procedures as "the end of the world" but only as a mean to protect yourself and your integrity. Take your time. Access the circunstances and do not get impulsive.

Hard times ahead, but one step at a time you will get to better times. Guaranted. If in the future she is willing to return and be a safe partner - and if you by then want that for your life, so be it. if not, there are plenty of women out there willing to respect their partners like they respect them back.

Stay strong and you will be alright.

P.S: Did you tell your WW about talking to the OM wife or did your WW discovered that by herself? Very important point to know. If she did it by herself that shows she is still in contact with the OM.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 9:52 PM, Sunday, November 27th]

Welcome to the anger stage of grief. This is where you start standing up for your marriage, your kids and most importantly yourself.

Keep your head and keep moving foward.

New level of remorse from WW today. Talked again for hours. I think it is finally settling in that this is about as serious as it gets.

Got a lot of promises and a list what she is willing to do to stay in the marriage and regain my trust. Includes full access to everything electronic, a post- nup or reconciliation agreement, and a poly.

Still not convinced, though. I need to stay in touch with the OMW and see if there are any gaps in the story. I told WW that if there is anything she is not truthful about, or anything she omitted, there is nothing to work with and D is the only option. She swears I know everything.

She swears I know everything.

They always do. If you get to the poly without a parking lot confession, you'll be doing good.
Doubt there's true remorse yet, lots of other things, yes, but doubtful she's fully hit the remorseful stage yet.
Has she admitted to thinking about sleeping with him? Otherwise she hasn't been fully honest yet. No one goes through all this just for a cup of coffee.
Remember she IS in survival mode, she will not tell you anything that would further damage her in your eyes. Its human nature and I seriously doubt she can break that mold.
Regardless of how mild or how bad, there are things you don't know and there are things she will not tell you. Yet.

RG,

Now that your WW seems to be remorseful, what are her thoughts on this:

So, now we are at 3 times OM jilted my wife.

Does she feel that she may need to pursue him harder next time around? Does she feel that she still needs his validation? Does she feel like he was 'the one that got away'?

Got a lot of promises and a list what she is willing to do to stay in the marriage and regain my trust.

Promises are words, and we all know that words are cheap. As others have advised, and will still advise, observe the actions, and pay little heed to the words.

Includes full access to everything electronic, a post- nup or reconciliation agreement, and a poly.

The bare basics are the full access to all forms of communication, so that should not even be discussed. the second and third are good to have, and if your WW has offered it, it seems that she is heading towards being remorseful.

R or D, it is up to you. Take your time to sort out your thoughts and feelings. What you have been doing is what should be done, which is to protect your own interests first and foremost, then decide on either the R or D path once you have yourself sorted out.

I do hope you find peace.

Yet another several disconnected points from me:

Be aware that legally you can’t kick your wife out of the family home.
In fact – as a cop I have escorted more than one husband in cuffs from a home they have refused their wife entry into. It is domestic abuse and can result in a judge deciding that she has primary residence during a period of separation/divorce.

I’m not suggesting you don’t demand she leaves (if that’s what you want) – only recommending you get that result through advice from your attorney.
The same applies to the marital bed. If she insists she sleeps there you are better off (legally) simply sleeping in the spare bedroom or couch and then seeking legal advice on how to attain your goals.

--
IMHO the OMW can be used to corroborate what could be considered factual parts of the story. Like she could tell you if her husband was around on the dates your WW was in his area or if he was working "overtime" or at a conference or whatever. But be careful about taking what she shares as "truths". Like those three days: if she were to insist nothing happened because she KNOWS her husband was working two states away those days…
She can possibly send you the texts and/or scan the photos for you.

But… She doesn’t have the resources of SI like you do.
So, her husband (and is he her husband? You originally stated they were divorced) has had some days (weeks?) to sell his wife his version of what happened. You hardly expect him to tell her that he initiated or pushed for more. He does exactly what your wife did at first: Minimizes.

Using OMW as a source of truth for emotionally or relatively based data isn’t really a good idea.
She can corroborate things, offer info that gives you reason to research and so on, but if she says your wife was the initiator and/or wanted more and/or was the more active party… Well… our collective experience here on SI would indicate that the betrayed spouse normally sees the other person as the "bad guy".
--

I still have my issues with the three days…
Like did they decide to meet at a public place – like "we should meet at a public place" as in order to have everything in the clear IF they were seen. Or did they decide to meet at Joe’s café or at the front-door of the City Library… a place accessible to the public and therefore a convenient meeting-point before heading off for a walk in the path or coffee at Joe’s.
Earlier on I gave your wife odds on being truthful on those three days. I think I gave her 1/20. I will give her that the odds are better now, like maybe 1/10.

Where was she staying? Hotel? Friends? As I have said previously you have a lot of resources available to fill in her story – confirming it or chipping away at it.

--
About her intent for the meeting…
We had this discussion on this forum a couple of months ago about intent and planning. I personally have experienced going somewhere with no intent of doing anything wrong but ending up doing so. The example I used was a benign personal one: Where I "accidentally" made a detour to a hardware store and since I was there went and looked at the table-saws and – while I can still with a straight face insist I hadn’t planned to – walked out with one.
Yet if I line everything up my 100% honest insistence it wasn’t planned doesn’t hold up: The detour on the commute home to the store, that this particular store had this particular saw on offer, that the reason I went in was I needed a pack of wood-screws, that the fittings and screws were to the right in the store, the tools to the left, that I left with the saw but no screws… Does it sound like I really had no intent of letting this happen?
It’s not planned – but it is semi-inevitable.

Like your friends that drink too much… You KNOW if you go out on a night with them there are good chances you drink beyond your normal limit even if you decided on the way to meet them to be sensible this time. Yet you wake up with a hangover from hell and a new, ugly tattoo…

I can accept that your wife met him with no anticipation of sex. But I also think it would/could easily have led to sex. If this was all as non-sexual and "innocent" like you describe… well… maybe less so. But if there was more innuendo, a build-up to the meeting and so on then maybe that would give you a better clue as to what was going on.

I’m from a small town. Old BF I learned had lost his wife. Two young children.

I emailed his best friend to offer condolences. I sent flowers from my family.

Then I got an email from the old BF. It was innocent and he asked if we could talk.

I immediately showed my H and discussed it. I had no residual feelings for him and my H knew that.

We chatted 2 or 3 times. He just needed an escape and needed to vent a bit. We had a few laughs about old times and that was it.

My H knew about all 3 times we spoke. There was nothing hidden.

And that is the difference here. The cheating occurred because it was lying by omission. And that’s what makes this damaging to the marriage.

Too bad the cheaters just don’t get it

These questions have been asked before but not answered. I’ll repeat them again because they are important.

Has she offered to recover the messages that she deleted? Have you made that a requirement to consider R?

Have you looked through her GPS history? Have you found out what she was doing during the three days she was out of town near OM?

I still don’t entirely believe that they didn’t meet up. Your WW and OM have had plenty of time to sync their stories. I also don’t think this was your wife’s first rodeo. She seems terrified that the more you dig, the more you will find out.

Lastly, you shouldn’t get into a routine where you tell her you want her out of the house and then reneg the next day. If you want her out and you’re done, then you should be done. Seesawing back and forth chips away at your credibility.

Seesawing back and forth chips away at your credibility.

I didn't see-saw. She was actually packing to leave, hoping I would say something to stop her. I didn't and she finally said that I can't kick her out (which is true) and she was staying until the attorneys can get the separation agreement completed. I never asked her to stay.

What about these these latest issues, which are not indicative of remorse?
1. Anger about you calling OBW
2. WhatsApp still on phone snd most significant app on the screen
3. Copping an attitude on Thanksgiving