SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was here back in 2018. My WH had an affair with my daughter’s best friend’s mom back then. I kicked him out but didn’t file for divorce. A few months later he moved back in without my permission. He wanted to make the marriage work. He told me he had stopped talking to the AP completely. I didn’t believe him and assumed she must have broken up with him & that’s why he was home. He swore that wasn’t it & that he had just decided that he wanted his family. About 6 months after that I ended up talking to the AP & found out that he was telling me the truth. He had completely ghosted her. Just stopped responding to her texts & phone calls the night he moved back into our house. She cried to me on the phone & told me he was her world & he completely broke her heart & she couldn’t believe he ghosted her bc the way he looked into her eyes couldn’t have been fake. She sent me screenshots of lovey messages he had sent her. The fact that he had actually ghosted her & was telling me the truth about that was the only reason I decided to give him another chance. His affair literally broke me though. I also sort of felt forced into trying to work it out which was also really really hard for me.

I’m 99.9% sure he’s a narcissist. He was nice to me on & off but never actually consistently nice. He was much nicer to me than he was before the affair but that’s not really saying much. I think I sort of hated myself for staying with him. I gained a lot of weight which looking back I think was bc I knew if I started to love myself again there was no way I could stay with him. He convinced me (& still sort of has me convinced that it would be completely selfish of me to divorce him & break up our family. We have 3 girls that are 15, 11 & 9 now. I’ve been a stay at home mom for 12 years. During Covid we moved states which I had wanted to do for a long time and WH finally agreed. This made me think he really did want our marriage to work. It’s a long story but I ended up unable to walk August 2021-March 2022. I was in a wheelchair. He wasn’t very nice to me during that time. I finally was able to start walking again & I lost a lot of weight & started feeling a lot more confident in myself. We have been in separate bedrooms for a year but as far as I knew it was bc we had different sleeping patterns. When I was able to start walking again I wanted to actually do things as a family and as a couple. He was too into his hobby and basically refused. He said he’s "a middle aged man and he just wants to do his hobby and relax". He’s always thought that providing financially for the family is all that he needed to do & that was enough. We went on a group family/friends vacation in May & he was terrible. He didn’t actually even spend any time with us. About this time is when I started feeling like he was having an affair again. He denied it of course. He has always refused the option of having an amicable divorce. He has basically always said he’ll make my life miserable if I divorce him. He used to say that he would move to another country & never see the kids again to avoid child support. He hasn’t said that since I took him back after the 2018 affair though. I really wanted to make our marriage work & stupidly told him he could choose to either actually work on our marriage, stay married but not actually be married or get divorced. I was trying to get him to actually want to work on our marriage. He would never give me an answer. I just intuitively knew he was having an affair again but he wouldn’t admit it. This is already incredibly long so I’ll shorten this part. A few weeks ago I caught him out at a restaurant with another woman. She also does the hobby that he does. He swore there was another person there & I just didn’t see them when I was there bc they were in the bathroom. I obviously didn’t believe him. I had made it clear to him before this and again after this that I did not agree to any kind of open marriage & I expected him to be faithful to me. Well, today I found out he was at a hotel with the same woman. I waited at the hotel until they left and took a video of them leaving. He swears that they weren’t doing anything (I would have to be a complete moron to believe that). He says it was creepy that I followed him & I’m crazy. He’s basically repeated the same patterns that he did during the affair in 2018 which is how I think I just knew he was cheating again. He wants to stay married & each just do what we want. He is again telling me that I would be totally selfish & ruin everyone’s lives if I divorce him. He’s also trying to tell me that he can sue me if I tell people he’s cheating and show them the video. He’s saying a video of him leaving the hotel with her doesn’t prove anything. Pretty sure him thinking that he can sue me (which he says is according to his lawyer friend) is bs but he’s always been very worried about his reputation.

So, here’s the thing. I’m a complete moron and I still love him for some reason. This hurts really really really bad. I also have a very dim outlook on men being faithful which makes me feel like I’ll be single for the rest of my life. I don’t know what to do. He literally wants to stay married and not tell anyone anything and just pretend we’re married but have an open marriage. I really don’t think I’m capable of that but I also still feel like I would be a horrible person for ruining our kids’ stability if I file for divorce. He’s definitely pounded that into my head. I don’t know why I’m so hurt even though he’s been so terrible to me for so long & part of me still really wants to save our marriage & family. In 2018 as soon as he knew I was completely done with him, that’s when he came home. I’m worried about that too. If I finally completely detach again is he just going to do the same thing he did before & suck me back in?

Sorry this is so long. I just needed to get it out & talk to someone since I haven’t talked to anyone in real life yet. I’m pretty sure the AP is married or has a boyfriend so I’m trying to figure out how to find that out too so that I can tell him. I would want to know. Any advice on how to deal with all of this? Am I a completely terrible person if I file for divorce?

If he is not willing to make himself better and a safe partner there is nothing to discuss. He needs to work on himself and nothing less. He cant have his cake and eat it to.

This is very difficult. But he’s told you exactly who he is and he’s shown you that repeatedly. And he’s told you what he wants which is to have his cake and eat it too and some sort of crazy open marriage relationship. So you have two choices you take it or you leave it. And as scary as leaving it may sound, I promise you you will be OK. You may find that what feels like love is really comfort and have it and what you’re used to. And when you’re free of his terrible treatment of you it might not really be love.

Please consider some ic or confiding in somebody to help you figure out what it is that you want. You get to decide. This is your life. And I know how much this hurts but you really really deserve better. Please take care of yourself.

[This message edited by BearlyBreathing at 5:00 AM, Monday, August 29th]

You have been through the mental torture with this narc. It's going to take time to see clearly again. Your instincts are right on every time but fear and self doubt have you backing down. Your self esteem has been eroded. He's making all the decisions and making threats to manipulate you. He hands out kindness like pet treats. You deserve more than crumbs. If you don't go along there's punishment. This is abuse. You can have a good life but it's going to require believing in yourself. Your kids aren't prospering under his ultimatum and selfishness. He's not thinking of anyone but himself. He even said he'd leave them with no support. How much money will he spend on his pleasure instead right now. This just gets worse. You need a strategy for yourself and the kids. Don't get sucked into arguments. N always think they are right and escalate to verbal abuse or stonewalling or retaliation.

Make a plan and believe you can.

Others have. I have. You can too. Your happy life is waiting for you.

Thank you for your responses. It sucks because logically I know the only thing that makes sense is to divorce him but I can’t get my heart to agree with my head. I’m sure it’s true that it’s comfort & what I’m used to more than it is love. Also, my self esteem has been completely obliterated. When I finally could walk again and started losing weight & getting some confidence back is when I started feeling like he was cheating again. He also could have been cheating before that but I didn’t notice bc I was stuck in my bed. There were a few months in the beginning of the not being able to walk debacle that I couldn’t even move without being in excruciating pain. I couldn’t even sit in a chair for 2 & a half months. I was literally stuck in my bed. I really need to gain some strength here. I’m going to call my individual counselor tomorrow and start talking to her again. Even without the cheating he’s just pretty terrible to me. He’s basically always told me that he would be nicer to me if I made the kids do more & be better disciplined & the house was spotless again (I kept it spotless before he cheated in 2018 but haven’t since). Logically I know that’s not what someone does or says to someone they love but why can’t I internalize that?

You are dealing with a lot, being that debilitated as young mom leaves scars/trauma too, so I am thrilled to see you have a therapist.

The other thing is stop listening to what he is saying. You won't ruin your kids lives, You won't be a bad mom. You will show them that when some disrespects you, you need to step up and demand better.

Start thinking about this logically, and start putting together your to do list.
I would definitely start with getting an attorney and any threat he has made to you about ruining you, taking the kids, and any of that garbage needs to be front and center, so that he is unable to do it. An attorney can guide you on preventing that from happening.

You definitely deserve better.

You've gotten good advice. I think your only real options are to divorce, or resign yourself to a don't-as-don't-tell open marriage. He is clearly not interested in being a safe or faithful partner.

I just want to add that yes, while these things are hard for kids, they will be okay. It sounds like there is a lot of tension and resentment in your house. Even if you think the kids aren't picking up on that, I assure you they are. You are also modeling for them how to be treated by a partner. I don't imagine this is the relationship you would want them to emulate.

Hugs. He sounds really abusive and manipulative.

You'll hurt the kids by divorcing? No, he has hurt the kids by being an asshole.

You're on vacation and he didn't spend time with his family? How do you think the kids feel about that? They may not say anything but they are internalizing it. What do you think that feels like in their little hearts and minds? "We aren't worth much. Dad can barely stand us."

His abuse of you is appalling but your heart holds on. Maybe focusing on what this is doing to your children to have an absent, thoughtless father who makes them feel less than. They also observe him emotionally abusing you. How much pain and confusion do you think that causes in their growing minds? They are kids so they don't ruminate on it (likely) but they feel it. It is damaging them.

He is damaging them. How's your heart feel about that?

Find your mama bear and start protecting your children from his abuse and abandonment of them.

See a lawyer so you can at least get his absurd threats out of your head.

I am so sorry you are going through this. You deserve to be loved and honored. I have been in your shoes before and I do not regret getting a divorce because my spouse was such a narcissist. Hugs to you.

There are certain things that you may not want to hear but everyone here will advise the best they can and to help you see things clearly.I know its difficult but sometimes we need to see it from elses view.

Your H not nice to you. He has never been nice to you. You have to face the facts and the truth. Your H is a seriel cheater and a compulsive liar. He doesnt care about you and your well being at all. He doesnt love you. Hes openly cheating on you and he thinks youre just too stupid to even realise. Youre not stupid and you need to show him that. I know it will hurt but you cant live the rest of your life with someone like that. You neee to leave him despite what your heart says. Our hearts are just not that clever. Our brains are! You need to listen to your head and you need to do what your brain says.

You deserve to be loved and honoured. You cannot let someone like that have that much power over. If you dont want him to move back in then dont let him. Youre not destroying the marriage and your family lives. He has already destroyed it. You need to be abit more selfish and start loving yourself!

I don’t know what to do. He literally wants to stay married and not tell anyone anything and just pretend we’re married but have an open marriage. I really don’t think I’m capable of that but I also still feel like I would be a horrible person for ruining our kids’ stability if I file for divorce. He’s definitely pounded that into my head. I don’t know why I’m so hurt even though he’s been so terrible to me for so long & part of me still really wants to save our marriage & family. In 2018 as soon as he knew I was completely done with him, that’s when he came home. I’m worried about that too. If I finally completely detach again is he just going to do the same thing he did before & suck me back in?

You don't have to allow him to "suck you back in". He doesn't get that choice. It's YOUR choice.

I think you're operating under the assumption that things are as bad as they can get and since you've survived so far that you'll be okay with it and life will go on. But that's not what happens. What ends up happening is that he continues to waste years of your life that you can never get back, and then, when the kids are older and he's less concerned about paying child support, he dumps you to go be with one of these OW who are pressuring him for a commitment. Meanwhile, your kids have learned a dysfunctional model where Dad treats Mom like crap, ignores his family to do as he pleases, and finally bolts.

You still have TIME. You have time with your kids yet to establish a new normal, a safe haven where everyone is treated with respect, the memory of which will serve as a touchstone all their lives. In more visceral terms, it's creating a future where you remain close to your children and still an active part of their lives instead of them running as far as they can emotionally or physically to rid themselves of the toxicity of their childhood. A dysfunctional home is not "stable". A home can still be a good foundation even in the face of financial adversity and boisterous levels of happy chaos. IMHO, your fear is misplaced. When you look further down the road, it's MORE scary to stay in your situation than to leave it.

He is again telling me that I would be totally selfish & ruin everyone’s lives if I divorce him. He’s also trying to tell me that he can sue me if I tell people he’s cheating and show them the video.

Well, he's practically dared you to run that past an attorney, hasn't he? I'd satisfy my curiosity by taking that video to a consultation. Knowledge is power.

((hugs))

I finally found my anger more than my hurt! I told him yesterday that he’s a coward and a terrible person and that at least now that I’ve confirmed he’s cheating again I’m actually just disgusted and repulsed by him. Which is VERY true! Strangely, we’ve always had a really good sex life. Even after the 2018 cheating after I kicked him out we were still having sex. Now I actually feel like I would puke if he tried to touch me. He’s just such a gross human being to me at this point. I don’t know how he lives with himself after seeing how much he broke me the 1st time & STILL doing it again! He has absolutely no conscience, which I also told him yesterday. I am doing the 180 again & haven’t even looked at him since that conversation yesterday.

It’s unbelievable to me how disgusting these kind of women are too. How any woman lives with herself while/after cheating with a married man that has children is literally unfathomable to me. I would rather die that be a woman that does that. They deserve each other. I have no doubt that he’ll treat her like shit after a little bit too & they’ll probably break up bc one of them will cheat on the other. If they haven’t already broken up, that is. He’s seemed pretty down since the time I talked to him yesterday. She knows I have a video & am intent on telling her boyfriend/husband so I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s trying to salvage that before I show him. I messaged her Sunday night after taking the video of them leaving the hotel & told her she should probably warn her boyfriend or husband, whichever one he is to her. They have a 3 year old.

Thanks for the encouragement! I REALLY needed/need it!

(((JGB))),

I messaged her Sunday night after taking the video of them leaving the hotel & told her she should probably warn her boyfriend or husband, whichever one he is to her.

Well, in general it's not a good idea to warn your WH or OW/AP. If this is what you already did, you might want to contact OBS asap. As they can paint you to the OBS as a crazy wife, mentally unstable, etc. This is what liars do.

You can reach out to him in writing or over the phone. " I am so and so. My WH is in the A with your W. I have such and such proof.".

Good Luck and strength to you!

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 8:41 PM, Tuesday, August 30th]

The hangdog look is typical. It's designed to make you think he feels bad for what he's done. Actions tell the story though, don't they? His action, even in the face of how badly he hurt you in 2018... was to cheat again. What that tells you is that he's sorry for himself, not for you. He's sorry he got caught and he doesn't want to deal with the consequences of what he's done.

Yup, that’s exactly it. He doesn’t care about me. He only cares about himself & how it will affect him. I’m honestly not even sure he cares about our kids unfortunately. I really don’t think he’s capable of actually loving anyone. People are disposable to him. There isn’t one person in our lives that he hasn’t talked badly about.

I’ve been so unhappy for so long, it’s nice to think there’s a possibility of happiness in my future. After we moved states & were trying to make the marriage work (although he still was never consistently nice to me) I felt like I was doomed to be unhappy forever because it was such a big deal that he agreed to move. He held that over my head all the time. His dad actually stopped talking to him bc we moved. First he was mad that we were doing things during Covid (we quarantined from March to July & it was terrible for the kids so we stopped) & then when we moved during Covid he completely stopped talking to us. I’ve always felt terrible for WH because of that & I understood a lot more of why he has so many issues after that happened. If he had any self awareness at all he would see a therapist & work on himself but right now he doesn’t. I hope for our children’s sake that sometime soon he does. The oldest will probably hate him forever (there’s a lot of background there, she’s never forgiven him for cheating with her best friend’s mom in 2018 & effectively taking her best friend away from her) but I think there’s still hope for the other 2 if he ever changes. It makes me so sad bc they don’t even say goodnight to him & he doesn’t bother to say goodnight to them. This is part of what’s really scary about 50/50 custody to me. I’m not sure they’ll be able to handle it. I’ve spoken to several lawyers & that’s the default in our state.

As far as telling the OBS I already sent him messages on social media but he hasn’t seen them yet. I just hope he sees them soon for his sake.

You told her you were going to contact her husband. She's watching his accounts and intercepting any messages.

Send a certified letter,one he has to sign for. Include evidence.

Hellfire, I’ve actually thought about that but I wasn’t sure if she would be able to just sign for him if it came when she was there. I’ve been meaning to find out, I just haven’t done it yet. Are you sure it’s possible to require only him to sign for it? If so, I’m 100% doing that!

I can't remember exactly what it's called. But,if you go to the post office,tell them you want it to be delivered requiring ONLY his signature, that's how it will be delivered.

Ok, perfect! I will definitely do that!