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My BW put a presentation together about why she should keep the kids. It was all I, I, I, me, me, me. It was all emotional based and no facts. She made really silly statements. Things like the kids prefer her, or she has a more emotional bond, and she could take care of them better.

My BW has checked out of parenting a long time ago. I’ve talked to therapist before about why the kids want to gravitate towards her. They’ve told me it was the reason I did, because we are trying to get something we are lacking: attention. They get everything they needed from me. Attention, love, you name it. There is nothing lacking. She brought up the fact that the kids would rather get baths from her. I’ve talked to my kids about that. Their answer: cause mommy never wants to give us baths. I can count on one hand how many times since the kids were born that she bathe them. And the fact that she says she takes better care of them is just ridiculous when I’m the one that does the cooking, cleaning up after them, the laundry, everything schooling, grocery shopping, medical visits, pretty much everything.

She asked me, so you don’t think I can do any of that? I said no, you haven’t done any of it. She talked about how she used to do so much. And yes, she did the shopping and the cooking. But all that started slowing down. Then we had the second child and it was just hard for her. I took over so much, then I got 100% of all the task. Which I’m not complaining about and never did. I am the father after all, but 100%?!

She asked what I thought she did all day. I told her, you play so much video games. She said, but I stopped. Why did you stop I asked. Because you told me the kids had a problem with it, she said. I told her that about 5 months ago. She stopped on Wednesday. Then told me it was my fault for buying her the game. I didn’t think she would be playing 8 hours a day. But before the gaming she literally binged watch 8 tv series, before that she would spend hours on social media, before that she would spend hours playing some mobile video game. She would always just rather do other things.

The rest of the presentation she spent days on was horrible. She gave me a 50 mile radius of where she might live, didn’t mention logistics, like who is dropping off the kids at school picking them up while she works a 12 hour day, Didn’t even mention a specific school, just a list of the 10 best schools in the 50 miles radius, and the fact that those schools have AP classes (like most schools), and a list of fun things to do living closer to Los Angeles, and the fact that is closer to her family. And by closer, I mean an hour away in Los Angeles traffic. And also, the family she has told me countless times that she hates, the family she tells me she was glad to be able to get away from, the family she never trusted with the kids who will now be involved in taking care of the kids if she gets her full custody.

I can tell you exactly where I will be living, the exact neighborhood. School start times, the kids schedule. I got the ok from work to have a hybrid schedule that allows me to be home when the kids are not in school. The family members that have been on the emergency release forms that have been on those same forms since they started school, family members we have always trusted.

I’m asking that they stay with me during the week, weekends they could do all that fun stuff on that list she made of fun attractions near LA. During summer and winter break we switch the schedule around where she gets them during the week. I don’t know why she is fighting this so much. She asked me if my plan was fair. I answered none of this is fair. It’s not fair to you, it’s not fair to me, and it’s especially not fair to the kids. We are just trying to figure out the best solution. She said I was trying to take the kids away. I had to assure her that they are our kids, and no one is taking them away from anyone.

She wants to come up with an agreement so that she doesn’t have to pay an attorney 400/hour, but she’s not really willing to work with me so I don’t know what she expects.

Can I hear from others dealing with this?

As best as you can, ignore this from her. The default is 50/50. No judge is going to entertain this from her. They're also not very likely to give you more even if you are the primary caregiver. They will likely take into account that she will be moving and that the kids will have to share bedrooms in her small apartment so bring those up to your lawyer if you have not already.

Make absolutely sure that you talk to your lawyer about first right of refusal. It means that she will need to offer you the kids before she brings other family members or babysitters in to look after them. Get that included in the divorce and you will likely have majority custody even if it's 50/50 on paper. The kids absolutely should be with you when she isn't able to look after them instead of questionable family members or strangers.

That right there is the kind of advise I’m looking for. It concerned me when she told me her job would take her into Arizona and Nevada for a couple of days regularly. When I asked about the kids she said that her parents would take them in. The what? They have a perfectly good father to watch them, why would they need to go to her parents?!

Again, thank you for that info.

The title made me laugh. My son did this when he wanted a phone and he had way better arguments than your WW.

She wants to come up with an agreement so that she doesn’t have to pay an attorney 400/hour, but she’s not really willing to work with me so I don’t know what she expects.

More than likely she has spoken to a lawyer and they have told her that the only way she is getting full custody is if you give it to her. 50/50 is the best she's going to get and I think she knows this.

It sounds like she is planning on using the family to watch the kids same as she did you. You didn't keep them from her when you were married... she just chose to do other things.

Have you met with a lawyer? Many give you a one hour free consult.

Ha! Glad you like the title.

She’s actually the BW, I’m the WH, soon to be X. I think you are right, that conversation happened after she came back from her free consultation. I already have a lawyer. He has already given me the petition for D and working on the custody paperwork now.

Also right about using her family like she did me. After the conversation she asked me if I was willing to move close by so that I could help out whenever she needed. I know what that means, I’ve been doing that for so many years. She said I have nothing tying me to the area. I guess the kids school and my office are not that important?

A PowerPoint?????

I would have been in the floor laughing my head off

I’m glad you weren’t there 1st, that would have been very distracting. Haha.

She wants me to create one. I don’t know about that.

So for 46 weeks out of the year, she’s supposed to have zero kid-free weekends? I have to be honest, that doesn’t seem very fair. However, I can see your point that it’s her choice to be moving out of the area.

She wants me to create one.

Oh please let me Create it for you. I would use audio and video footage or copies of text messages of her lying and cheating (if you had any), a timeline of events etc.

I know you are not going to create one - no one wants to play her game. She’s just being petty. But in any event just to play along I provided my thoughts below.

Here are a few “suggestions” for the slides to your wife — in the short snd to the point in 10 words or less:

1. Slide 1 - you cheated.

2. Slide 2 - you lied.

3. Slide 3 - I’m done.

Fill in with any appropriate picture me you deem necessary.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:32 PM, May 30th (Sunday)]

1. Slide 1 - you cheated.

2. Slide 2 - you lied.

3. Slide 3 - I’m done.

I find this thread kind of fascinating. He's the WH. She's the BW. He put that in the title, the OP, and his subsequent comment. Yet people keep assuming that she's the cheater.

I wonder why?

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 8:49 PM, May 30th (Sunday)]

I know exactly why BraveSirRobin. People believe that a cheater, liar, failure can’t be a good parent. I’ve seen that before in post in the forums. Lots of people have made it so clear that they think a cheating spouse can’t be a good parent. And maybe in lots of cases it’s true, I don’t know any of you so I can’t say. That is not the case in our situation. In our case, my wife didn’t come from a good, loving home. There were so many issues in that family that she didn’t have good role models. So now she struggles and it’s hard for her. She really has to work hard to be a good parent and she doesn’t like doing the work most of the time. For someone like me, it really comes naturally. We just spent a couple of hours playing with the kids downstairs, they were having a great time having both parents play with them. Then something happened were she saw her out and went upstairs. Now she’s playing video games, after she told me she was going to stop because the kids asked. It was even in her PowerPoint presentation. So I’m gonna do what I always do, take care of shit. I’m hanging with the kids, loading a dishwasher and I gotta go feed 2 dogs.

I’ve said it before, yes, I’m a liar, a cheater, a horrible husband, but I’m the best parent they have.

Oh please let me Create it for you. I would use audio and video footage or copies of text messages of her lying and cheating (if you had any), a timeline of events etc.

He is the WH The1stwife.

And whilst I don’t believe WH can’t be good parents, you can’t just brush off the damage and devastation you have inflicted on your whole family by cheating. Reading your posts, the cheating part is dismissed as a..technicality. You obviously don’t think it plays that big a part in the whole divorce thing. You seem to be very critical of your BW’s parenting skills and her character in general, even poking fun at her PowerPoint presentation, but where is the compassion for what you put her through? It really does not come across from your posts.

She wants to move on with her life, and if that involves moving to a different town, where she can start afresh with no triggers, that’s entirely her prerogative. You can’t really begrudge her that. And whilst I understand that you don’t want to lose your children, and you probably won’t, I think your scathing attitude has probably something to do with her wanting to move as far away from you as possible. So changing that attitude, and owning up to what you have done, emphatically and not just intellectually, might be a starting point..

[This message edited by Karmafan at 4:29 AM, May 31st (Monday)]

First and foremost, keep your kids out of this. If you’re really the selfless and devoted Dad you portray yourself to be, then you will keep them out of this conflict... even if your wife tries to draw them in. It’s bad enough that their family is being torn a part as a result of YOUR actions; don’t make them pick sides.

Keep in mind, too, that they are probably going tell you what you think you want to hear when you confront them (because they don’t want to upset you or hurt your feelings) and then, for the same reasons, tell your wife something completely different when she asks them the same question. If they are too young to bathe themselves alone, then they are absolutely too young to be asked the questions you’ve been asking them.

Also, as ridiculous as a PowerPoint presentation seems to us Internet strangers, I suspect that she had a good reason for choosing this route. Maybe she is used to being interrupted by you and wanted you to just sit and listen. Maybe she’s so used to you lying, gaslighting, and twisting her words that she wanted her to be as clear and definitive communicating with you as possible.

And maybe she retreats into video games because she’s desperate to escape the pain of having a husband who constantly makes her feel worthless as a wife, mother, and sexual partner. Maybe it’s a way for her to escape her constant anxiety about what you’re doing with your time, money, and emotional energy outside the marriage.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I bring up this possibility because you seem intent on painting a picture of your BW in the worst possible way both to your kids and us Internet strangers. We’re supposed to believe that, a part from cheating, you are the model husband and father. We’re also supposed to believe that, a part from keeping her vows to be faithful, your wife is an abysmal wife and mother, bordering on insane. I simply don’t buy it. Sorry.

Lawyers are expensive because they are worth it, especially in a contentious divorce like yours. You both need lawyers because it’s apparent that acting in good faith is simply not possible. Purely based on the terms you described in this post, her demands are unrealistic and yours are unreasonable. Let a judge decide what’s fair under the law.

In the mean time, I repeat, LEAVE YOUR KIDS OUT OF IT! Any badmouthing of their mother to anyone and any questions or comments to your kids that the court seems inappropriate will severely jeopardize your case.

There is a husband on this forum (whose name I won’t mention) who was intent on everyone on the universe knowing what a lying, narcissistic, worthless mother and wife his soon-to-be ex was. He routinely asked questions of his kids that are similar to the ones you asked your kids. The result? His wife was awarded primary physical custody. He’s also paying her alimony, despite the fact that she’s worked for most of their marriage. And she cheated on him!

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:18 AM, May 31st (Monday)]

I'm one who says a cheating parent is a shitty parent. And I stand by it.

A cheating parent doesn't take time from their kids, and spend it with a OW.

A cheating parent doesn't risk giving a deadly std to their children's mother.

A cheating parent doesn't risk their children's security, family, and happiness, by taking the chance if destroying it all, simply for a side piece.

I also believe a cheating parent could be a great parent before,and after, the infidelity.

I also believe a BS can be a shitty parent.

You can talk about how you do 100% of everything for the kids, and that's great. That means you risked them having a present parent, 100% of the time. You risked leaving them,half the time, with a mother who neglects them.

Deny it all you want. But you took a risk, and now the kids will pay the price.

Hmm. It takes 3 to 5 years, at minimum, to heal from infidelity. In your other post,you talk about how you were "punished every day," and your wife was "mad" at you all the time.

In that sentence, you show you had zero remorse, or understanding of the pain you caused. It explains a lot of your wife's behavior.

To be honest, I also admit that I assumed the wife was the wayward, but it has more to do with the in frequency that waywards post outside of the Wayeard forum. That aside, my thoughts.

My STBXWW also struggled and still does with parenting. She displays many of the behaviours you W does. This is in large part due to her ADHD. She would prefer fun things to work, and kids are work. There is also a disconnect from reality. It's as if she isnt reading from the same script and has this fantastic outlook on her own abilities. Yet, at the same time, she struggles with self esteem. It was like being married to a child. They say that it is not unusual for the non-ADHD partner to cheat, but in my case it was the opposite.

Cheating aside, you both need to do what's best for your kids. Its probable that she just wants a clean break from her source of trauma and you do owe her that. Just be decent, honourable, and understanding. And mostly fair.

Thank you all to everyone who has responded. I want to get to all of your points as they are all good points. This is what I was looking for, a discussion about what my family is going through at the moment as I am seeking help for my wife, family and myself. When explaining myself, please don’t take it as me trying to change your mind, I just would really like to let you know what I’m thinking and feeling.

Karmafan, I am not brushing off the cheating. I have owned what I did. I have apologized for it countless times. Not only in words but in my actions. As hard as it might be to believe I have changed completely to become a better husband. As I have come to find out, in the end it didn’t matter as her mind was already made up years ago, and I completely understand that. The positive, I’ve become a better person. So no, I’m not rug sweeping or dismissing it, it happened and now we have both agreed to divorce. So maybe I didn’t talk about my cheating much in my post because we have already decided to move on to the next step.

As far as begrudging her for moving far away from me as possible, that is not a problem for me at all. The moment she told me she had enough and told me I had done so much, everything a person could possibly do, that if it was anyone else they would have forgiven what I’ve done a long, long time ago - that was it for me. I knew it was done. I’m not trying to hold on to her. I completely understand why she wants to move to where she is going, why she wants to move away from me. I get it, and she could go anywhere she wants. That’s is not the issue. We both talked about our fears and I told her not to scared. That it was going to be good for her, that this is what she needs, that her life was going to be better.

Maybe she is asking for full custody to avoid paying you child support. I don't think she is maliciously doing this to take the kids away from you.

I knew that Heaven was the WS and I stand by my advice.

I have sympathy for the BW but I don't think she's making good choices. Setting up her family as the main child care choice - whom she has previously said was so toxic that they have never been trusted with the kids before - is objectively a bad decision for the kids. I do think that her playing video games is likely a form of escape but I don't think there is anything Heaven can reasonably do about that. She deserves 50/50 given what's been said but I do think Heaven should get first right of refusal when there are legitimate safety concerns with who will be watching the kids during her parenting time.

Bluerthanblue, thank you for your response. First, you are 100% correct. We should keep our kids out of this. I just want to assure you I am not trying to manipulate them, turn them against their mother. In fact, daily, I tell them how much I love their mother. Tell them that I love her so much. Whenever my daughter says anything negative towards her I stop her right away and come up with some excuse for their mother. As far as the question about the bath, it was a simple “why did you say that?” I’m not pushy in anyway to get anything out of her. My response is, ok, I’ll talk to your mom. And assure them she loves them, she’s just busy. My daughters response? “Playing her stupid game?” But yeah, as much as they will be in the middle of this, I am definitely with you on keeping them out of this, and not making them choose sides. As far as I’m concerned, there is only one side, the family’s side.

As far as the PowerPoint, she has been telling me these things for a couple of weeks now. Advise from my counsel was to listen to her demands and not agree to anything until she has representation and we get to mediation. So I tell her, thank you for explaining your thoughts to me, it gives me something to think about. She’s looking for me to agree to something and I just can’t at the moment. Because I wasn’t agreeing to anything she thought I wasn’t getting it. So she thought she needed to present her points to me. And yes, lawyers are expensive but she’s stuck on full custody, letting me see them whenever I want (whatever that means), and her toxic family take care of my kids. So with that in mind, we got a problem.

The video games could be a retreat I guess, but she’s always been a gamer. Before the kids, we would binge watch tv, play video games together. I just don’t have the time now. I get it when I interrupt her playing and I get that look, “what do you want?” But when my kids go up to her and she says “not now”, or ignores them, or what she did last month - yelled at them and said, “get the fuck out and go to sleep!” I don’t get that at all.