SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good Evening All!

Swinging by to check on all of you.

Work is keeping me busy, and I mean B U S Y

The nursing shortage is so bad.

Please stay healthy and safe

Hi,

I’m so glad I found the bs women’s thread.

We are 6 months post DDay. My WS was with a coworker for under 3 years on and off, we have 3 kids and so there is so much to think about. I am working on healing and taking care of myself but as you know it’s been a hellish 6 months and I have days of just numbness sometimes. Also I might be pregnant so there is something new.

I believe my WH is a good person and am trying for R. For those who are working on R what were your boundaries/ conditions for it?

I’ve been reading so much on here and from seeing him work on the day to day, that he is trying to do a lot to help me. He is completely unaware of the work. Even when I try to explain it he doesn’t seem to understand. Did anyone else go through this? How did you get your WH to understand? Or did he do it himself?

It’s all so confusing. I’m so tired of being in this crazy situation he put me in.

Thank you for your thoughts

Hi Squish!

Welcome to a seriously neat group of goddesses

General questions for us betrayed women, do you agree that men see thinks very differently from women ?. My WH who so far has only partly admitted a EA seems to think it is no big deal as it was not PA. I am astounded and keep telling him the sex or lack of it is irrelevant. I agree a PA would hurt more however an EA means there are real emotion involved. Truly scared he actually loves the OW

Hi squish, sorry you are here. here were my conditions…. Maybe some can help you. He broke number 1.

1. No lying. Ever. Deal breaker.

2. Go to IC and figure out why you did this, why you didn’t respect me enough to ask for a divorce when you were in love with another person, why you put our family in danger, why you broke up with her so often and then went back to her even after DD1. Why did you sleep with her again. Deal breaker. Please figure out how to be someone you respect.

3. Own what you did. Tell me why so I know that it won’t happen. Dig deep. Own it to the boys. Deal breaker.

4. When I trigger comfort me. Or let me scream at you. Apologize for crushing my soul and being relentlessly selfish for well over 5 years. Offer comfort not anger. It’s not about you, it’s about how hurt I am. If you can’t, leave the vicinity or if it is not for you period, simply leave.

5. Tell me weekly that there has been no contact. Stop making me ask, I hate it. Tell me if you want contact, don’t hide it. If you want her or someone else tell me immediately, that’s ok, you can have your dream.

6. Stop telling me that if we want R or to be happily married badly enough it will happen. I never wanted to be an LTA victim, guess what? That happened.

7. Understand I don’t have to love you – love is a gift and it happens when you act lovingly to someone you respect and enjoy. You killed mine. R/love is a gift that is constantly given again each day. Earn it.

8. Where are you? If your plans change, send me a picture, text me or call. Even 30 minutes.

9. If you say you are going to do something, do it. Do not forget it because you are down and never deliver. This is for house chores, or even cooking dinners. ( asked for 2 times a week, down to nothing again). This makes me resentful, I’m not your freaking mother.

10. Text regularly – and don’t get upset if I don’t always respond. I think about this all the time, sometimes I simply hate this and sometimes you.

11. Do not complain about having no privacy. You should want to show me how good you are. Get an app to show me that there are no deleted emails, texts etc. that I care about. And Hand over the PW to your work computer.

12. Do not spend any extra time in the AP’s city. - He now works 15 minutes from where she lives.

13. Put me first. Make dinners, offer to do things for me – like get groceries, run an errand etc, even if it is the last thing you want. At a bare minimum be a considerate room mate

14. Keep your ring on at all times, tell everyone that you are married. (He used to leave his ring in the car with AP. Saw hundreds of ringless photos). If you want it bad enough… Deal breaker

15. Don’t tell me how to fix this mess – you don’t know either. Ever. You broke us. Admit it.

16. Tell me why you want to R and what you think you should be doing. (Be real, because I know a lot of people smarter than me on SI that have seen it all and can sniff out BS better than me).

17. Give me a copy of all financials. Deal breaker

18. Take care of your health – exercise, sleep and eat.

19. No more punching walls, pounding on tables, or kicking cabinets. Control your anger, or it will hurt us.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 12:54 AM, Monday, December 27th]

Hi Gracey

Yes we are different, especially when you add a drop of cheating in.

Pouring your heart out to another woman sets you up to cheat. Cross one line and it is easier to cross another. Pretty soon the lines blur.

Hugs.

Hi Gracey!,

General questions for us betrayed women, do you agree that men see thinks very differently from women

Oh gosh yes.
And it may take them time to understand the consequences of their thoughts and their related actions. Or for some, they will never understand and repeat hurtful actions.

My husband was involved in a EA followed by LPA with one OW and during our separation he scurried off to live with her.

But during our separation, I uncovered the beginnings of another EA with his best friend's widowed sister. Their texting content went beyond just friendly: they had begun wishing one another good nights for example. In addition, they had dinner together(unconfirmed) the times my husband drove through her city on his way home from visiting his mother. All in secret of course. I never knew, until I found those texts and phone call logs between them. This occurred at the same time as his affair with the primary OW.

When I asked about this situation, my husband denied any involvement. His actual words were:" I never did anything with her". Yea right. He did not see how this was a problem for me and for us. He was just being friendly, he would say.

He did not see anything "wrong" with his "friendliness" during the first month of our R. It was later that year, that he told me that what he did was incorrect about his "friendliness" with other women in general. What he thinks is friendliness to women, for me, translates to the start of an attachment... when done in secrecy. We had many talks about secrecy..I had meltdowns in front of him, I screamed at him, I let it all out. ALL.

Almost three years into R, he shows me or tells me about his contacts with women (business related). I don't even have to ask. He has held NC with his OW's.

It's so critical and important to talk with one another. Our views on things in life are so different and always will be. All this means is that we as a couple, have to come to an understanding and support one another with our differences without hurting one another. To me, that is communication. it is not alway about right versus wrong.

Hey Ladies…wow these are some great latest posts. Tallgirl…fantastic list. It’s been a while since I have read here on SI.

I do believe that men and women think differently…or a better sentence is that cheaters and the faithful think differently. So many years ago when I confronted my WH about his EA, he was adamant it was just a friendship. Heck…after DDay in therapy he refused to call it an affair…even after I knew that they has slept together. Admission meant he had done something wrong. And in his mind, he would never cheat. 🙄🙄🙄

I have a question for you all…I am in a "new beginning" that I truly thought would never happen for me. He is the most unlike my WH in every respect…all good. He is emotionally open and we have shared our past. His ex-wife cheated on him also…he has forgiven her. Whereas I still hold extreme anger towards mine and I am no where near ever forgiving my WH.

My question…can you still hold anger and not forgive but still heal and move on? For the most part…I love my life and I am truly happy now. But I won’t lie…when I discuss the cheating, it still triggers me. DDay was 3 years ago now. His passing will be 2 years in 2022. My new SO is urging me to get back to therapy in the new year….which I think I will . But I fear that no amount of therapy will make me forgive WH.

Hi Throwaway999, Your post really hit a cord with me, my anger is off the scale and I am told we are in reconciliation (jury is still out on that). My WH’s lack of empathy and remorse towards me is keeping the anger high and I am suspicious that a carpet sweeping is taking place and EA will resume or never stopped.Its the lack of closure and acknowledgement of what they have done that is the problem and if your WS never gave you that then your stuck. I had IC and just cannot let this go as there has been know true remorse. Frankly I want WH on his knees begging me to forgive him and I don’t think that is ever gonna happen. How can you forgive someone and not be angry if they are not sorry.

How did you get your power back?

Exactly…I never got closure as he never ever told me the truth. I found out most things after he died.

In my eyes…telling the truth equaled remorse. Without honestly there was never any remorse on his part. In fact days before he passed he told me he hated the word remorse.

I know I am still healing and it takes time. But I don’t want me harboring anger to have impact on my new relationship…I guess back to IC for me. Got to work out more crap…it makes me angry that as BS we are stuck picking up the pieces of our lives.

And to me…gaining back my power is not knowing I will never be cheated on again, but rather knowing I will survive it…I am a way stronger person now that I ever was before.

My question…can you still hold anger and not forgive but still heal and move on?

Our MC always said that I never had to forgive WH. That we could successfully reconcile even without forgiveness.

Throwaway you went through a huge betrayal and suffered a lot while your WH was dying. I would be surprised if you had managed to move forward and weren't still harboring anger!

I can't personally speak to whether or not your anger at your FWH will hurt your new relationship because WH and I are reconciling. But there are all kinds of people who are angry at ex-spouses and manage to have successful new relationships even with the anger.

That being said, at it's best betrayal trauma is horrifying and soul-destroying. And your situation was particularly awful. I'm sure individual counseling would be helpful as a source of support and a way to potential work through any issues when they come up - or before they come up.

can you still hold anger and not forgive but still heal and move on?

There’s a book by Janis Spring called How Can I Forgive You that helped me here. She distinguishes between "cheap" forgiveness, "genuine" forgiveness (which is earned by the offender), and "acceptance" which is where the wronged person works through the offense and comes to accept (bc the offender is not around/not going to earn forgiveness). For folks like TA999, whose WS has passed away, or for folks like me whose WS is unable/unwilling/whatever to do the work to earn forgiveness, we look to the acceptance part.

To me, the thing about forgiveness/acceptance is that the goal is to release the anger. So, if the desire is to both hold anger AND forgive/accept, they do seem to be mutually exclusive. Personally, I’d say I’m pretty darned close to acceptance, tho there are times I still feel angry. That anger is pretty low level (esp compared to the first year or two post dday), and maybe better described as resentment vs actual anger. I dunno…. When I think about it, it may not even be anger, so much as disgust toward my WH and the loss of respect for him vs anger. It happened. It significantly altered me and the trajectory of my life. It also was an opportunity to look at my own thoughts/feelings/behaviors and try to grow.

I think our traumatized brains want/need to hold on to the anger and the pain, and that makes sense (our lizard brains are designed to protect us from harm, and remembering past harm is part of it). And, as others have mentioned, the idea that a BS can learn/grow from the experience, and know that at best we can TRY to minimize risk, but can never be 100% risk free from future harm/hurt… while we CAN know that we have a solid toolbox of skill to allow ourselves to heal and repair ourselves in the wake of future hurt is IMO/IME, a positive thing. And maybe that’s also where/how we regain our power, our mojo, our joie de vivre, in the wake of the betrayal trauma.

Infidelity is such an injustice…. And yet we all live in a world that has injustice, so maybe no time like the present to start working on how to heal/cope from it, esp in a time where, if you read the news, it seems a lot of folks feel perfectly comfortable lashing out (verbally, physically, or even ending life) in the wake of even the slightest of perceived injustice….

ETA: Daddy Don has a thread in the Wayward forum on forgiveness that may be helpful (tho it includes a WS self forgiveness, so trigger warning)

[This message edited by gmc94 at 5:41 AM, Wednesday, December 29th]

One of the homework assignments I did with my IC was going through the Grief Recovery Handbook. Their definition of forgiveness is letting go of a different or better yesterday. Definitely different than the normal definition of forgiveness. My feeling is that this is more of getting to a place of acceptance. I can't change what has happened in the past, and I can't change what XH did. Of course, the A & subsequent D has changed the trajectory of my life dramatically.

I was so angry and so mad. I'd planned my whole life and was almost at the finish line. We worked to get the house paid off so he could take early retirement. We could live on his pension & my income until I retired. We lived within walking distance to family. He didn't care about anything but himself & his selfish "needs". I put that in parenthesis because he certainly had neglected mine for the past 10 years. I also realized that he lied so much over the course of our 30+ year M, that I'd never know the truth.

I didn't want my anger at XH to rob me of my contentment & joy of where I am going now. It has taken 2 years since the decision to D to get here, and a good IC.

Hi Tallgirl,

I’m so sorry he broke number 1 😞 and I am sorry you had to go through this too.

Thank you for your list of boundaries.

It has helped me in thinking about what I need mine to be like. I am finding it so hard to figure out my own wants, needs and putting it all into words.

I’m finding that I have a few days of I’m somewhat normal days the I’m hit with this blah feeling that just takes over for days at a time. It pisses me off when my WH asks me to "snap out of it" like it’s something I’m doing.

In movies like love actually it’s almost romantic the ideas portrayed of an a but being on the other side has shaken me to the bone. I never realized A is everywhere. That so many people go through this. Today I’m just sad. I know it’s all on him. But we have 3 children. I wish he just left instead I have to deal with this. I know it’s something that will make me strong. It’s just wearing me down today.

20yrsagoBS Thanks for the welcome!

Hi Squish

My dealbreakers are personalized, they won’t all fit you. I do think it is helpful to see examples.

May I say something ever so gently. I wonder if your husband doesn’t get it yet, he seems sorry, not remorseful. If he wants a real marriage, he will want to do work, he should tell you everything you ask for, he should understand your triggers not resent them ( he caused them), he should be vulnerable with you.

You seem like a gentle soul, is he taking advantage of youR gentleness? When you fuck up so royally, and put your family at risk, there should be no pushback. There should be a burning desire to fix your marriage. IMO, He needs to get his ass into counselling to understand what he did and realize his marriage could end.

I think your reconciliation conditions are very important, whatever you put on the list as dealbreakers are that, dealbreakers. My husband lied to me for over a decade, so for me lying was not acceptable ever again. It was for me the first time I stood behind my demand. And it was so hard for me, so hard. I am a people pleaser and I wanted only him, and it felt that he was all I had. I was desperate not to lose him, even though we were so unhappy. Dumb right? But that was me, it was fear, keep things the same, at least I knew what I had. Now, I am alone, and I have a lot of work to do on myself. I have friends, and I don’t have him making me feel worthless anymore and I have my kids. Absolutely better than being married to him.

Make sure you want to reconcile, and that he meets the conditions you define. You do not want a repeat of this in 2 years, and you deserve a loving safe fulfilled marriage. You deserve happiness. Don’t accept less than you deserve.

Hugs

Hi Tallgirl,

Thank you so much for your message. I cried while I read it because its me, yes im a gentle soul and a people pleaser, I have given him my life and have lost myself doing it. I feel you are right in what you have said. He is taking advantage of me being this gentle in my approach. It is so much easier to stay the way I am but I know I deserve so much more. I didn't deserve this.

Yes having examples of peoples boundaries is so helpful because I don't know that I truly know what setting boundaries actually is and its a new skill im learning. I have been reading this site so much but its hard to find examples or just to know what the next steps should be.

Im so sorry you have been through what your xws put you through. You seem like a lovely person shame our partners didn't understand how lucky they were to have us at the time.

I'll read through your posts, if you have any more advice, resources or posts you think would be good to read up on I would appreciate it.

Thank you again for your time. It truly means a lot to me.

(((((((((Squish )))))))))

I gave my xh everything I could, and he took it. He took it all. Guess what, it wasn’t enough. And I kept trying. He didn’t give me anything in return, not even kindness. Being the ‘giver’ is not necessarily a good role, as eventually you are empty. It was not an equal relationship. When What I gave wasn’t enough, he looked elsewhere. Online dating, massages with happy endings, prostitute with whom he had a 5 year relationship.

If I could have a redo, I would do many things differently. And quite honestly, I think I should have divorced him about 12 years into our marriage. Why didn’t I? Certainly, these ideas and emotions played a part….I committed for life, I have kids, loyalty, I love him, fear of being alone, shame of being divorced (yes, that is silly but it was something I never wanted)…. what I didn’t value enough - was me. Had I said "I deserve more ". "This is not a good relationship for me". "I want a partner who values me not just a husband". "I want to be happy", I would have ended the marriage. I believe that he didn’t value me, partly because I didn’t demand it.

If there are any echos of you in my experience, see my mistakes. KNOW that you DESERVE a good marriage, you have power, you make yourself happy (not him) and you should be the most important person to him. You are his wife. Demand what you deserve. Expect what you deserve. But most of all, know you are worthy, beautiful and important.

And no matter what, you will be ok.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 12:12 AM, Friday, December 31st]

~~~~~ Tallgirl~~~~

OMG EVERYTHING you have said is me.... its just figuring out what that looks like for me.

stupid question....?..... What helped you get to where you felt you knew what these things are for you? I have given all of me and I dont even know now what I want and need. I don't know what a good relationship even is. I'm truly helpless in figuring his out but I know I deserve more and want more.

THANK YOU... you are helping me so much ...

I it possible to send private messages? im still trying to figure this site out!

[This message edited by Squish at 12:36 AM, Friday, December 31st]