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Newest Member: Larbear

Just Found Out :
Totally Blown Away

Topic is Sleeping.
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NiceGuysFinishLast ( new member #84558) posted at 7:08 AM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

I am going through emotional hell. Now that my WS is being transparent with her phone, I am discovering things that I never had a clue of. Whatever you do, please don`t beat yourself to death like I am doing. Stay strong. In my case, I am getting to the bottom of it, so I can decide where to go from here. Stay strong man.

Heart Broken/ Confused Caught her possibly setting up a meeting with another man online.

posts: 31   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2024   ·   location: Oregon
id 8828463
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Papi ( new member #80612) posted at 11:06 AM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

@ NiceGuysFinishLast How do you know she's being transparent with the phone? A friend of mine is a techie and he has people, 99% women, coming to him to find out what is wrong with their phones. Turns out, according to him, these ladies, FOR SOME STRANGE RESON (take a wild guess,) factory-reset their phones. Every. Single. Night. That, again, according to him, degrades the battery life significantly, and within a year of frequently factory-resetting their phones, the battery empties out in an hour or so.

That and they will install and uninstall apps every morning/night to prevent their husbands from knowing they are on Bumble or Tinder and chatting other men. Well, chatting and porking them of course.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2022   ·   location: Westchester
id 8828474
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Papi ( new member #80612) posted at 11:10 AM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

@NukeZombie It still does not make it ok though. Marriage is a union where both parties adhere to the vows. Meaning they both bring their best to make the union the best it can be. If she has an issue from the past, it is her duty to take care of the issues, not him. She has no business passing the issue onto him by exchanging it for a boring and bland sex life.

Most of these "repressed" wives really have no issues though. They make one up to cover up the fact that they settled for the husband and can't come to terms with the fact that they are really not attracted to them. Instead of taking the adult route and NOT MARRYING or DIVORCING these men, they marry them, then go about destroying their lives, slowly suffocate them into death-by-a-thousand-concessions situations and then start behaving in the most sexually devious way possible. It's backstabbing at a level that it is difficult to comprehend, from a man's perspective of course.

[This message edited by Papi at 11:18 AM, Tuesday, March 12th]

posts: 23   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2022   ·   location: Westchester
id 8828475
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 12:22 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

Please stay on topic with specific service for the OP, and avoid making generalizations. General statements are a guideline violation: "GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people." Thank you.

posts: 10034   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8828478
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NukeZombie ( member #83543) posted at 4:38 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

@NukeZombie It still does not make it ok though. Marriage is a union where both parties adhere to the vows. Meaning they both bring their best to make the union the best it can be. If she has an issue from the past, it is her duty to take care of the issues, not him. She has no business passing the issue onto him by exchanging it for a boring and bland sex life.

Oh I agree 100% Papi.... I believe the vast majority of WS who blame their actions on FOO issues, addiction issues, mid-life crisis, depression, childhood trauma, etc are usually just bs excuses.. they just can't rationalize how incredibly selfish their actions were and they grasp at anything to attempt to minimize their actions. Please they're adults, they knew cheating was wrong, they knew their actions would hurt, if not destroy, their faithful spouses yet they did it anyway because they wanted to and they could get away with it at the time. Only when caught do they flail away looking for anything that could save the relationship.

In Toby's situation, after 20 years of marriage, its simple-- his WW got "bored" in their marriage, she missed the "passion" and the "butterflys" (like any relationship could possibly maintain those feelings for 20 years,) she affaired way, way down and got caught. Now she's desperately trying to save her relationship with her husband and family.

Please Toby, please tell us you have at least set up a couple of attorney consultations to protect yourself.

posts: 77   ·   registered: Jun. 29th, 2023
id 8828509
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 Toby73 (original poster new member #84543) posted at 5:53 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

She is saying that she wants a clean split my son is coming to live with me and my daughter is staying with her. I have already started the filing process with the paperwork we are hoping to make the process as painless as possible she knows she messed up. Wait and see I guess.
I learned alot about my wife she has some deep mental issues for sure. Her father left the family when she was 3 and never paid attention to her. She was molested by a family member for several years and was raised by some really shitty people. Her dad is stubborn,her mom is an avoidant,and her aunt who she was basically raised by is a pathological liar and a thief. Shes got daddy issues for sure. Maybe thats why she chose a much older guy whos looks didnt matter.
Of course shes an adult and it was her choice to cheat but the more I put the pieces together the more I understand where her narciscist behavior comes from. Its too bad because there are 2 sides to her. Shes can be a great mom and wife but she also has an evil side. Its like 2 totally different personalitys its freaky to watch.

posts: 26   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2024   ·   location: New York
id 8828530
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ThisIsSoLonely ( Guide #64418) posted at 5:53 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

deleted T/J - will send a PM

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:57 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

You are the only person you are guaranteed to spend the rest of your life with. Act accordingly.

Constantly editing posts: usually due to sticky keys on my laptop or additional thoughts

posts: 2492   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2018
id 8828531
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 8:11 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

Please don't abandon your daughter. Get some recommendations form an attorney on the way to manage custody. Custody does not work I get one you get the other. That will cause some deep issues for both your children.
Please please please try to get your daughter too. Your wife is engaged in risky behavior you don't want a young girl exposed to this.

Me: FBSHim: FWSKids: 23 & 27 Married for 32 years now, was 16 at the time.D-Day Sept 26 2008R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 20297   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8828552
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Papi ( new member #80612) posted at 8:23 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

@Toby73 So, in essence, her cheating is everyone else’s fault. The lack of accountability on the part of cheaters is astonishing I tell you.

Also, understand that once she snaps out of The Affair Fog (when the oxytocin tapers off) she will come back to you trying to elicit any empathy out of you. She will cry, plead and even tell you that she will commit suicide if you don’t take her back.

Be ready for this conversation and have someone with you, preferably a female family member, when she shows up.

Her crash is going to be monumental.

[This message edited by Papi at 8:32 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

posts: 23   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2022   ·   location: Westchester
id 8828558
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 Toby73 (original poster new member #84543) posted at 8:38 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

@papi
No its not anyones fault but hers. Im just trying to put the pieces together to figure out how a person could be such a terrible human being. I dont understand it.
On a good note Im going to hang out with an old ladyfriend of mine this weekend. We've been talking about the situation and shes been helping me through it. Nothing serious but if it does go somewhere Im definetly wont be "affairing down" like my wife thats for sure..

posts: 26   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2024   ·   location: New York
id 8828562
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1994 ( member #82615) posted at 10:11 PM on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024

OP, Be careful about the meeting with your friend. It is all too tempting to loosen your boundaries in your situation, but in the end those kinds of things rarely have any kind of positive impact on your situation. You should absolutely meet with her if she's truly a friend who can provide you emotional support, but be wary of it going further.

posts: 216   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8828593
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 2:58 PM on Wednesday, March 13th, 2024

Hey Toby, I would second the opinion about being careful. You are in the midst of trauma right now and not the very best version of your self. Plus, you are emotional, and that can create some difficulties. It's like shopping when you're hungry.

Plus, it's problematic to self medicate with a new relationship. I get it, it's validating and intoxicating. I made the mistake of doing this and paid heavily on both sides. The first, gravitating to a relationship on the heals of separating, and then being in a relationship with a newly separated woman. Both worked out poorly. Stupid me, thinking I had the tools and experience to beat the odds.

If this woman is a quality person, then she will take a step back and wait for you to do the work on you. Trust me, It pays great dividends.

I'm an oulier in my positions.

Me:57 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced

posts: 1865   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8828665
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:22 PM on Wednesday, March 13th, 2024

Toby

Not that it matters since you two are headed for divorce…
I venture that about 9 out of 10 instances of infidelity are about low self esteem and validation.
Heck… If there were any absolutes in human interaction I would even dare say ALL. But there are no absolutes so 9 out of 10…

Even the most powerful person, someone in a clear position of power or someone with the looks of a moviestar or the money of a software mogul… they cheat as a form of validation that they feel needs being met due to some insecurity.
Like… if I was the boss of a Fortune 500 with about a gazillion per year plus expenses… why would I want to do the cute intern or the new secretary or the new department chief of finances that’s been overachieving her whole career? It’s because doing so validates my need for power. I CAN do it. I STILL have the pull. I am so omnipotent nothing can harm me. Yet each and every one of those stupid acts would threaten my career and achievements… Why would a sensible and sane person ever do that?

Well… For your wife it’s the body issues and insecurities in a fat-shaming society. Then the surgery and weight loss. I’m pretty certain that when she looks in the mirror she’s still thinking that she has a swan-neck, still thinks that there is flab here and a bit too much there. Whatever beauty she sees – whatever physical improvement – is countered by insecurities. You – the husband – could look at her and only see beauty. But that’s meaningless to her because you too saw beauty and had desire when she was still fat.

I get it in a way. Over the last 2 years Bigger has become bigger by shedding over 70 pounds. For a short period I was into buying pants because I was down four sizes. That was my validation. But then, my main reason for losing weight was for health rather than looks. I feel validated by getting my clothes in a normal store, by being able to select by cut, style and color and not by size. I do not need to be flirted on to confirm to myself that I look and feel better than 70 pounds ago.

So when Mr Pervert hits on her… validation… that someone other than you finds her sexually attractive… validation. To carry on with the sexual acts… a way to get more validation.

Like I started: If you are headed for D then why and how she could do this isn’t really an issue. She was and is capable. If you two were working at reconciling then her reasons would be addressed, mainly to help her find better, acceptable ways to validate her insecurities. Since your goal is to live separate lives, then your best bet is to focus on you and deal with whatever issues and traumas this discovery is likely to hit YOU with.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12689   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8828674
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 Toby73 (original poster new member #84543) posted at 7:49 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

Ok I got to be honest with you guys and come clean about something. I have been having sex with my wife lately just about every night. Im still disgusted with her but I figure shes there why not? The sex has been amazing. Shes so guilty that shes eating out of the palm of my hand. Its passionate and were trying new things we've never done before.
We still fight alot and life is miserable outside the bedroom. We cant seem to agree on anything and shes looking to rugsweep the affair. Im still looking to divorce because I would trust a rattlesnake before I would trust her. Part of me feels like Im trying to hold on to what we had before all this happened. We both went for SDT tests waiting on results. Keep you posted.

posts: 26   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2024   ·   location: New York
id 8828848
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fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 8:19 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

It’s called hysterical bonding. Very common phenomenon in this situation. But it is risky until you get the all clear on the STD tests.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3944   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8828852
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 9:22 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

If you want to make sou d decisions and keep a clear head stop having sex with her. Please. Men bond and have all kinds of bonding hormones released when they have sex. This was to create family bonds when we were cavemen. You are not a cave man. Just stop.

Me: FBSHim: FWSKids: 23 & 27 Married for 32 years now, was 16 at the time.D-Day Sept 26 2008R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 20297   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8828866
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 Toby73 (original poster new member #84543) posted at 9:32 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

When I try to talk about the affair she gets angry and these are the responses I get.

1. I Know!!!! I Know!!!

2. Im a piece of shit and I screwed up!!!

3. I'll never do it again!!

4. Why do you have to keep repeating the same things over and over. I Know!!

Followed by stonewalling and the silent treatment.

posts: 26   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2024   ·   location: New York
id 8828867
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 9:37 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

She has no idea how traumatizing this is to you. Trauma will make you go over and over the thing until your mind can come to terms with it. It's normal. She doesn't get it and probably doesn't want to because that would mean dropping her defensive act and taking a really hard look at herself.

She wants you to rugsweep it so she can dodge consequences and never have to change herself.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 9:38 PM, Thursday, March 14th]

posts: 652   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8828869
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:39 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

My WW’s affair has many, many similarities as yours. I posted the following years ago. Affairs come in many different flavors and involve many different predisposing factors, so the following is definitely not all inclusive. Please pardon the gender bias, as we all know this could easily apply to all genders:

Since my Wife's sudden affair after 23 good years of marriage, I have been compulsively studying the psychology of how affairs happen in relatively healthy long term marriages. I have noticed some commonalities. Now, these commonalities wont fit everyone's situation-of course, as there are quite an array of scenarios, but this seems to be my situation and I have seen many similar stories here on SI, enough to almost be able to categorize this in its own right. What do think?

This scenario seems to be prevalent in WS's who have low self-esteem, low self confidence. Sometimes these insecurities are latent and lie dormant like Shingles waiting for everything to come into proper alignment to emerge. Sometimes they grow through the years and foment as they get older. They can cover-up or hide these unattractive and embarrassing issues from their spouse and friends, very effectively, for years under a maintained persona, but everyday they are constantly questioning their self worth and self image.

It seems to begin after kids have gotten older and they are in their mid 40's and have been in the marriage 15 plus years. They see themselves as frompy minivan, SAHM Soccer moms with a lack luster, child centered, unsophisticated, unromantic life. They just finished reading Shades of Grey, Harlequin, The Days Between, or watching Same Time Next Year, or some damned Diane Lane Movie on Lifetime For Women. Their friends are having affairs, talking about their exciting affairs. Pop culture is making affairs look cool, common and classy. A new culture, The Me Generation that revolves around instant gratification and selfishness. They see their youth slipping by, pre-menopausal, rapidly approaching 50, wondering what they have missed-are missing in life. She has probably been hitting the gym pretty hard now that she has more time to spend on herself. She's probably looking better now than she ever will. She's probably getting more attention etc, etc. She may be a people pleaser, and this coupled with the low self esteem, and the constant and/or growing need for validation, erodes boundaries. New tech is now weighing-in to help insidious flirting and sexual innuendo evolve quickly, incognito, allowing paramours some anonymity to take risk, break molds and character much like the masks in Eye's Wide Shut, and goes on to help compartmentalize boundary violations and facilitate secret liaisons with state-of-the-art efficiency, and the ease of a Delete Button. Click-Sins Gone.

So now the stage is set. Then someone comes along loaded with flattery. Many times a skilled home wrecker who knows how to work the vulnerable….No, the receptive "MILF" or "Cougar". It progresses from flattery, to flirting, texting, to sexting. It evolves insidiously. The highs get higher, the lows get lower, the excitement, the ego kibbles, the endorphans become an intoxicating drug-an addiction. These feelings are amplified 1000 times by the forbidden fruit nature of an affair. This forbidden fruit, this dangerous liaison, this high stakes surrealistic adventure, that exists in an exotic nether world, in the shadows, in romantic secret, creates an artificial high that eclipses the feelings they felt courting their beloved spouses. Sometimes this leads the wayward to believe that this must be true love, a love greater than that with their spouse. They begin to question their love for spouse, their marriage, their past life, their fate. They compartmentalize, rationalize ("I deserve this", "What he don't know wont hurt him") and they demonize the BS to squelch any internal conflict.

The WW then compartmentalizes her two worlds. In one world she is the matriarch of the family, the wife and the Holy Mother. In the other world, she gets to be whomever she wants to be. She gets to recreate herself into whatever image she has fantasized about over the years. Fantasies she would never reveal to her wedded husband, too embarrassed to reveal. Now, in the affair bubble, she gets to break out of her chaste bride/wife/mother-madonna mold and escape the persona she has maintained, institutionalized over the decades.

This might explain certain sexual acts not performed in the marriage.

The AP has no expectations, no pre-judgement, he is not looking for a life partner. The elicit nature of their relationship has no boundaries and allows them the freedom to be whomever, and do whatever they please.

The sex. The AP is not necessarily a better lover than the BS. Affair sex is great because of its forbidden nature, the contrast, and the fact that it is DIFFERENT. It is completely uninhibited, risqué, new, novel and fresh. It is anonymous and NSA to some degree, allowing sexual paramours to experiment without fear or judgement. It is a new person after 24 years of sex with the same person.

This whole fantasy land affair atmosphere can perpetuate over a long period of time as long has things remain: Secret, forbidden, risky, uncomplicated, etc. The APs can become addicted and go through withdrawals just like an addict. Some affairs run their course and the WW recognizes the superficialities of the affair and end it.

My WW claims that affair sex was not as passionate and loving, and intimate as marital sex. She began to miss the marital love making we had vs. affair sex making.

So, the affair may have had had nothing to do with love for you, how you perform in bed, or what kind of a life partner you are, or what kind of marriage you had. It is about broken people, with poor self-esteem, poor boundaries, looking for validation and escape. It's about the duality of man and how some of us can easily separate ourselves from reality, to disassociate, from our families, from our conscience, from ourselves.

This propensity to cheat may have always existed within her laying dormant for years waiting for just the right moment to strike. If you decide to R. she must figure out what predisposed her to do this, isolate it, and fix it to ensure it never happens again.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 1:01 AM, Friday, March 15th]

"If nothing in life matters, then all that matters is what we do."

posts: 1330   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8828870
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Vocalion ( member #82921) posted at 10:05 PM on Thursday, March 14th, 2024

Thank you Realityblows for a truly very helpful, informative analysis of the conditions which predispose WW s to betray their husbands, themselves and their families. I have reread your thesis twice and I am stunned how your it so accurately reflects my WW's second and third affairs in her late thirties and mid forties. It was only after her third affair, that my wife sought help from her job connected psychiatrist to explore why she had sought to find sex and companionship outside our marriage. At that point she realized things had to change, but as one poster described it last year: she did everything right except inform me of her transgressions.

When she says you're the only one she'll ever love, and you find out, that you're not the one she's thinking of,That's when you're learning the game.Charles Hardin ( Buddy) Holly...December 1958

posts: 367   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2023   ·   location: San Diego
id 8828877
Topic is Sleeping.
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