SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If your partner has exchanged topless pics and received naughty pics from another man she is hiding .also admitted to kissing him but notgjng else ... What people's thoughts have they or haven't had sex ?

So much more other evidence too.

Like lifts home after a night out , that's when she admitted kissing him .

She only did this because I text him off her phone saying "he knows everything " his response was lucky nothing got physical and we only flirted over snap

Have they ?

Does it really matter? Sending topless pics and receiving 'naughty' pics is a betrayal in most exclusive relationships. I expect I'd be devastated if I learned my W had sent or receives such photos.

To answer your question, though, I'd want more info on what you consider to be 'sex'. Also, I think they've had opportunities for sex, but IMO you don't give enough info to determine whether they have or haven't.

And I'm still stuck on the exchange of photos. That's betrayal enough to blow up a relationship, IMO. Does the sex question determine whether you will split or R?

Something I'm learning quickly is that it doesn't seem to matter if it's an emotional affair, physical affair, online affair or any other type there might be out there. If you're partner is hiding things, deleting texts or stuff like that about another person outside your relationship. That's when the cheating begins. It's just how much information you want of need.

Based on everything I have seen here at SI
YES I think they are having sex.

Check my other posts for more info but my gut they had sex ...

She has cheated. Sending nudes and hiding it is cheating. If she has been alone with him they have had sex. Almost every cheater that is caught minimizes and says "Just a kiss".

She only did this because I text him off her phone saying "he knows everything " his response was lucky nothing got physical and we only flirted over snap

This isn't his first rodeo, this is a canned response knowing that the BP will see it. She admitted to a kiss and he says "nothing physical happened" Kissing is a physical act and she's had a physical affair.

Please don't minimize for her "It was just" or "It was only", It's a full blown A and you now need to decide what you next move is.

How long have you been together? Do you have kids?

I'm simply going to repeat what others have already said...

1) She's already cheating.

2) Yes, if they had the opportunity, chances are very high they had 'some kind' of sex. At a very minimum, based on what you say the OM said, it was absolutely tracking in that direction.

And as someone already said, it's up to you how you define 'sex' and whether it matters at this point to you.

I'm kind of in the same boat. WW was in a full on EA with sexting (x-rated pics, dirty texts... all that) with some random OM she met online, but the OM was in an entirely different state, so physically impossible for that to have become a PA, but it definitely would have.

When I caught it, they were already floating dates and locations to meet in-person based on a possible trip my WW was planning to take in his direction (for a completely unrelated, personal event). Even if she did make that trip, it would have been a few hours for him to drive to meet (or a short flight). My WW tried to claim that they just wanted to meet to 'get to know each other a bit more personally'. I totally called BS and said I'm sorry, no guy who has been exchanging those kinds of pics and messages to someone online, drives HOURS to just 'to get to know them'. Even if my WW wouldn't admit her true intentions, I told her HE certainly was planning on having sex. When I put it that bluntly, she just looked blankly at me for what seemed a very long time. I asked her, "am I correct?" And she basically agreed, which was then a tacit admission to me of her real intentions.

On top of this EA, during this same period of her having the EA, she also met a guy when she was out on her own one night and wound-up in his car. At first it was just some kissing, then it was, "ok we made out, but nothing more, no touching beyond the kissing, nothing" ... riiiight.

To be fair, I do struggle with did they or didn't they, because there's no proof they did. They will ONLY ever admit what they did when there is evidence, but I've been on this forum long enough now... I'm not naive. I believe they did.

Anyway, my point is, even if I had definitive proof they didn't, it doesn't matter anymore. She's a cheater.

So back to you. You probably need to accept if they had the opportunity, they had some king of physical, sexual contact, but again, how much does that matter to you given what she has done.

In my experiences on these forums and in real life are;

"Kissing" = oral
"Making out" = unprotected sex

Sorry, she’s already a cheater it’s now just a matter of degree. Don’t believe ANYTHING that she says. I would have saved myself a lot of pain if I hadn’t believed my WW on dday. I thought my WW was special, but she is just an ordinary cheater and used the same cheater speak that they all seem to use.

I'm with sisoon on this - does it really matter on your decision to stay or go? Is is the physical act of sex that bothers you, or is it that she went behind your back, expressed interest in hooking up with another man, lied to you, siphoned energy away from your relationship, likely talked shit behind your back, and betrayed your trust that's the key problem?

What do you want out of this? What does your partner need to do for you to stay in the relationship? What has she actually done to eliminate the affair, express remorse, make amends, be truthful and open and honest, work on herself, etc.?

If the physical act of sex is the dealbreaker for you, that's perfectly valid. Just trying to ask the questions so you can look at things from different perspectives and understand how you feel.

Humans are defensive creatures.
WS's disclosures are always minimized.
It probably started earlier, progressed faster and went much further than you're initially told.
Even his response to the text "lucky nothing got physical and we only flirted over snap" was probably a knee-jerk reaction on his part to mimic what we guessed she might have already told you. His statement fits the initial evidence, so that's what he would try first..
If you walked in on them having sex 10 minutes later, it would be "the first time that's ever happened".

Most betrayed spouses get bogged down by trying to know everything before they feel they can make a decision - but WS's will also lie (overtly, or by omission) until they cannot lie any longer. You can peel back layers and learn more for YEARS...

Don't hobble your decisions by making them based on what you don't know yet - base them on what you know now. You know ENOUGH to be good to yourself.

How do you define "sex"?
Would it be necessary for them to be in physical contact? Well… what if they sat in opposite sides of the same room and mutually masturbated while exchanging sexual messages? Would their presence make it "sex" for you? So the same actions repeated on webcam with some cabling between them wouldn’t?
For me "sex" would be the act of behaving and participating in a manner intended to give, create and offer sexual reactions – be that mental stimulation or actual physical stimulation. If OM got off on seeing your partner rub celery off the top of her head, and she got some stalks and rubbed them there to get him off… that’s sex.

I know that definition isn’t complete, but IMHO she and OM participated in actions that were intended to sexually titillate each other, and probably themselves too while doing so. After all – sex is all about give-and-take.

Complete written timeline. Polygraph to confirm.

Most likely yes, but the world is full of mysteries.

This post is very similar to your other posts.
What has your wife done since the initial discovery to show she is sorry or has she even acknowledged what she did is wrong.
Have youbdone anything to help you understand how to heal and recover from this?
She clearly has had a minimum an EA. Yah it may be over but what happens when the next guy comes along. What are her reasons for last time.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

She has completely changed and our relationship is alot better . But something niggles me that she had sex or some kind of physical thing other than a kiss.

She admitted to the kiss after I see and sent the OM the message I pulled her up on it .

I just can't cope with not knowing . I'm try to save my family but it's hard .

I’m like you. I couldn’t go forward not knowing. I scheduled a polygraph within 2 weeks of d-day. Turns out my WH did not have sex but he still kissed her a bunch and wanted to have sex. Which to me would have been a dealbreaker. Or I’d like to think so but I thought all cheating would be and here I am. The fact that he wanted to but just didn’t get the chance yet doesn’t hurt any less.

I just can't cope with not knowing .

You will never truly know what happened, yet you know enough today to make your decisions.

IMHO, Naked pics happen after sex, not before. It's done as a way of continuing the intimacy, not as a prelude to it.

I can more-or-less guarantee one thing:
While you have doubts, you and your marriage will never recover.
I am a firm believer that in order to reconcile you need to know what you are reconciling from. I also believe a couple needs total honesty on key issues. If you two are spending a nice evening having dinner and when you gaze at her you constantly are wondering if they did or did not… Won’t work.

Keeping a secret is a clear indicator of lack of trust. Not believing is also a clear indicator of lack of trust. We all know that trust goes with infidelity, and a major part of reconciliation is rebuilding "trust" – a new form of trust that is more solid and logical than the old blind trust. How can you do that if a) you don’t believe her and/or b) she’s withholding the truth.

I think you really need to address this and you two find a way for her to be forthright in a way that convinces you. That might be through an amnesty-period (tell me the truth and I commit to R for the next six months) or it could be by having a poly support her "truth" or refute it.

Great advice....

"I can more-or-less guarantee one thing:
While you have doubts, you and your marriage will never recover."

It’s been suggested before. And let me add to that by suggesting a complete written timeline and polygraph.