SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you all in advance for listening to my story.

DDay was almost 2 months ago. My husband (M30s) and I (F30s) have been married for 8 years. We have two young children together. He also has a teenager from a previous marriage.

As soon as late last year, I felt we had an enviable marriage. WH has always been prone to significant emotional ups and downs (regular bouts of depression), but nothing we hadn't been able to work through. We also previously dealt with his addiction to painkillers (opiods) and, later, other medication. These were points of stress, particularly when I found out he was "in the hole" financially. This led to my paying more of the bills and our selling our home and downsizing. Our oldest was a baby at the time.

Things seemed to calm down after that, and I accepted our new reality (and paying most of the bills), even as things continued to change. WH was laid-off his job over a year ago. He's moved into a SAHD role since then.

The infidelity in this case was a one-night stand (that I know of) and was preceded by a major emotional event. WH's teenage child decided they no longer wanted to be a part of our lives and entirely cut us off this year. WH spiraled into a deep depression, including feeling suicidal. After a couple of months, he seemed to be on the mend and starting to move forward. Then, in April, he began acting erratically. WH was talking a mile a minute, determined he had found himself, piecing his ears and changing his hairstyle, wanting a new tattoo, and wanting to spend a lot more time with his siblings (all of whom are single and bisexual), etc. He also began withdrawing from me emotionally. He picked fights with me, claimed I was critical of everything he was doing and so on.

The culmination of all of this was that WH went to a gay bar with his siblings and met someone. He says nothing happened that night. He got AP's number, talked to them that week and set up a time and day to meet, where he went and had casual, pre-planned sex with AP. To be clear, I am in a heterosexual marriage. WH was previously open about having experimented (had sex) with a man as a young adult, so I was aware and accepted his bisexuality. I also assumed since he had experimented before that he knew he wanted to be with me, and deciding on his sexual identity wouldn't be an issue.

WH told me about a week and a half after it happened. He claims he never would have told me, except I was worried about my physical health (possible STI). When I asked him to confirm it couldn't possibly be an STI, he confessed.

That being said, I'm struggling mightily now. We had a (long term) trip planned before his infidelity came out. I spent a week apart from him, almost decided on divorce, but at the last minute decided to try the trip anyways. Now we're in a foreign country and I've booked (early) return flights for a week and a half out. WH knows I'm deciding if I'll stay in this marriage or go. Since I first mentioned the possibility of divorce he's been trying to do everything he can to win me back. He says he knows he only wants to be with me, that it was a mistake and he knew he just wanted to be with me afterwards. I made what I now consider the mistake of telling him I think he could have BPD. WH has latched onto that as part of his identity and (to my mind) is using that as an excuse/reasoning for his transgression. The thing is, he cheated (many times) in his previous marriage. So it seems like a pattern.

I appreciate his efforts, but I don't know if I can really ever trust him again. Trust has always been incredibly difficult for me.

I've been having physical symptoms from my anxiety (nausea and headaches), which is very unlike me.

I'm still deciding what to do, but in the moments I feel the most clarity, I feel I should leave. I've been in bad relationships (not marriages) in the past, with cheating involved, and it wasn't something I ever felt I really could get over.

I'm also struggling because I'm afraid of going it alone, I don't want to hurt my children (as a daughter of divorced parents myself), I'm afraid of whether WH will hurt himself (given his suicidal tendencies), and honestly, I do still love him.

Any advice or thoughts are much appreciated.

[This message edited by Landslide1920 at 3:56 AM, Thursday, August 31st]

Seems like cheating is part of his DNA.

Welcome to SI and sorry that you had to find us. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that are very helpful. The Healing Library contains some great information, including a list of the acronyms we use.

If he's having unprotected sex with others, you will need to be tested for STD/STIs. Talk to your doctor if you need meds, such as antidepressants, sleep, etc.

A mistake is forgetting to grab a gallon of milk at the store. An A takes many, many choices, with the end result being the betrayal of the faithful spouse.

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is a fairly short book that he needs to read. It's a primer for the work he needs to do. Frankly, it sounds like he's a serial cheater, and they rarely change their spots.

Your littles will watch you to be their role model for their relationships in the future. It's better to be in a home with a stable, loving parent than to be in a home with two parents modeling a dysfunctional relationship.

If he's having unprotected sex with others, you will need to be tested for STD/STIs. Talk to your doctor if you need meds, such as antidepressants, sleep, etc.

Thank you for your response and advice. Getting both of us tested for STD/STIs was my first priority (forgot to mention that) and we've both been tested for everything. Luckily, all is negative.

I'll definitely consider whether it would make sense to get meds to deal with my anxiety.

WH and I both are going to start IC. My self-esteem has already tanked and at this point, I just need someone to talk to that can help give me strategies to change my thinking, since I'm in this circle of feeling like all my choices are wrong.

We started MC before I found this website. Now I see the general advice is to hold off on MC at the beginning. I do feel like it hasn't been helpful given I'm trying to decide if R makes sense for me.

Regarding WH's history of infidelity, I always explained away his previous infidelity. He married young due to his casual girlfriend's unplanned pregnancy and was pressured to marry by both sets of parents, so I felt it was understandable that he felt trapped and might wander given he knew he didn't want that marriage. It did give me some pause, but not much, obviously.

You write about figuring out what you should do and what makes sense.

My reco is to think about what you want first and then consider how attainable it is. Ignore the 'shoulds' and ignore 'good sense' - just figure out what you want. That's the beginning of healing.

A practical issue: Some of what you describe could fit with using again. Have you looked into that?

IMO, an addict is a poor candidate for R unless the addict is committed to not using for the rest of their lives. What is your H doing and willing to do in addition to talking about what he wants?

But that's irrelevant if you decide that D is what you really want.

So you knew he cheated in marriage #1 because he "was forced into the marriage".

Hmmmmm……how convenient of an excuse.

So now I hope you realize that he tells himself whatever he needs to tell himself to justify his decision. You know being in an unhappy marriage is not an excuse or reason to cheat. He justifies his poor choices in any way he can.

I hope he starts to understand what the word monogamy means (if in fact you want a monogamous marriage).

You write about figuring out what you should do and what makes sense.

My reco is to think about what you want first and then consider how attainable it is. Ignore the 'shoulds' and ignore 'good sense' - just figure out what you want. That's the beginning of healing

.

That's a great point. I just started IC and my counselor said something similar (ie, figuring out what I want without trying to always take care of/worry about everyone else). I have decided that I realize I need space to figure out what I want, so my H and I will be separating for some time.

A practical issue: Some of what you describe could fit with using again. Have you looked into that?

I haven't. I've never had addiction issues and honestly, I'm not great at recognizing when it's an issue, especially given his moods have always been very cyclical, with or without drugs.

WH has previously been able to keep his addictions a secret from me multiple times (red flag, I know).

IMO, an addict is a poor candidate for R unless the addict is committed to not using for the rest of their lives. What is your H doing and willing to do in addition to talking about what he wants?

My H doesn't consider himself an addict anymore, so he isn't trying to "do" anything to fix an addiction. Would he just be called a recovering addict if he hasn't used for years? And to be clear, these are "legal" substance addictions, but addictions nonetheless.

His focus (outside of wanting R) is mostly on the mental illness he now thinks he has (that I posited as a possibility). He is determined to get diagnosed. He seems to think that would be enough of an excuse to be a "get out fo jail free" card, even though I've told him it doesn't change anything for me and I don't really care one wah or the other. Maybe it would just help him live with his decisions (since he wouldn't feel fully responsible) if we end up in D. That whole mentality worries me quite a bit. How can you fix yourself and grow if you feel you can fall back on the excuse that you couldn't control your emotions and therefore (partially) your actions?

Thanks for your response, The1stWife.

So you knew he cheated in marriage #1 because he "was forced into the marriage".

Hmmmmm……how convenient of an excuse.

So now I hope you realize that he tells himself whatever he needs to tell himself to justify his decision. You know being in an unhappy marriage is not an excuse or reason to cheat. He justifies his poor choices in any way he can.

You're right. It was a poor excuse back then. I gave him a "pass" when I heard it, thinking about the poor decisions I made as a young adult and my bad relationships (trying to relate to his experience and choices). Things are entirely different to me now that I'm married and have kids. Honestly, I was more forgiving of cheating when I was dating. The stakes were lower back then.

I go through daily disbelief that he felt it was worth it to everything we built and our relationship out the window, especially after having done that in a previous M (with all the regret/guilt he has told me he has about it).

I hope he starts to understand what the word monogamy means (if in fact you want a monogamous marriage).

I do want a monogamous marriage. It's non-negotiable to me. My understanding has always been that is what he wants, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if his thinking on the matter has changed given his choices.

What follows is opinion. The vast majority of posts on the web are opinions, but I wanted to remind readers of this.

*****

What your WS is doing now may be love-bombing. He may be doing a pick-me dance of his own, and he may be trying to blind you to what you need to do by being super nice.

If so, he can't keep it for long. My reco is to stay focused on what you need and want.

*****

I thought the rule is, 'once an addict, always an addict.' A true alcoholic can't drink alcohol. Someone addicted to opioid painkillers risks relapse if they take opioid painkillers again, which is obviously extremely difficult for recovering painkiller addicts. Gambling addicts can't gamble.

Your H may be doing what AA calls 'white-knuckling' - using will power to refrain from the addiction. They're still addicts, though, and white-knuckling is hard to do for very long.

*****

Your H seems to be looking for external causes for his actions. Yes, he might have an emotional condition that drives him, but he dooms himself to more pain if he uses the condition as an excuse. He dooms you and your kids, too, if you stay and he keeps hiding from responsibility.

Your H didn't cheat with someone because of the someone. He cheated because something inside told him it was a good idea. He hasn't decided he's not an addict because something inside him is looking for some kind of fix from the outside.

Unless he takes responsibility for himself, my bet is that he's a poor candidate for R. To be a good candidate for R, he needs to want to find ways to keep his condition(s) in check.

R may be possible if he agrees to satisfy certain requirements, one of which is IC with a very competent IC, probably an IC with experience with addicts. Alas, you are the only one who can figure out what your requirements are.

*****

Here's the thing: you can't heal him. He has to heal himself. That's the good side of taking responsibility for oneself - it's a sign that the person knows they can heal themself, although often they need help.

*****

Meanwhile, IMO, especially if he's love-bombing, getting away is a good idea.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:26 PM, Sunday, August 13th]

Sisoon, thank you for your insight and response. His previous addiction history as well as history with cheating on his previous spouse are big reasons I'm concerned about R, too. Despite his best efforts, he seems to struggle to be consistent and keep up his efforts, pretty much in all areas of his life.

What your WS is doing now may be love-bombing. He may be doing a pick-me dance of his own, and he may be trying to blind you to what you need to do by being super nice.

If so, he can't keep it for long. My reco is to stay focused on what you need and want.

It seemed like he may have been doing something like that before, but that's stopped in the last week. I told him I want to separate. I clarified that I didn't want him trying to change my mind, and he's been honoring that request. I can't tell if he is simply respecting my request or doesn't care. We've been barely speaking outside of talking about our kids and plans for the day (and were currently togetger 24/7). I can say that even if he wants to R, I'm not making that easy. I'm not yelling or causing fights. In this case, I'm withdrawing into myself. I'm not afraid of confrontation and previously was generally the one to push difficult conversations in our marriage, but I don't particularly want to work on anything with WH right now, so I'm withdrawing more than anything.

WH previously convinced me to try MC and we did a couple of sessions. At this point, I told him to cancel it. We both had an IC session recently, but the therapist is out for a month now. WH hasn't said or done anything about finding someone else. Honestly, I'll be surprised if he keeps going when the therapist comes back, unless I prompt him.

We should be separating soon (circumstances don't allow it right now). I'm not leaning towards R at this point, but I want to give myself some time away from WH to make a good decision. I'm thinking of consulting a lawyer or two soon instead, so I can understand my options.

From a family/financial standpoint, I'm the breadwinner and expect to be fine financially without WH, so getting out of this situation sooner (while I'm still relatively young) may be more prudent (less to lose). It seems most on here are in different situations than I am. In my case, he's a SAHF. This was originally not a choice, as he was laid off a year and a half ago, but after a while we decided to keep it that way. If we D, I plan to try for custody and am the primary breadwinner, which seems fairly unique on here. If anyone has experience with similar circumstances, I'd love to hear how it worked for you.

I'm still struggling with feeling badly about how this will affect my kids, but trying not to focus on it.

I'm still struggling with feeling badly about how this will affect my kids, but trying not to focus on it.

I think that's a normal worry, but from what I've read, studies say that kids do fine so long as they've got at least ONE sane parent. Clearly, you fill that bill. Your posts show a rational thought process and good analysis of your situation.

To be frank, when I re-read your initial post, your WH is a chore even when you don't factor in the cheating. That drama and stress don't just fall on you as the spouse, it affects the whole family. You might not be able to protect your kids from all the fallout of your WH's histrionic personality, but you can create a safe haven for them in YOUR home so that all the time they spend with you is secure and peaceful.

When you reframe from just looking at the loss of the two-parent, in-home dynamic to include a model where the children have a minimum 50% of their time in an emotionally secure environment, pulling the plug on the marriage starts looking a little less scary.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:48 PM, Sunday, August 20th]

I appreciate your response and insight, Chamomile. Yes, looking back, post DDay, all of the things we've been through, mainly as a result of his choices and actions, seem much more meaningful than they did before. I guess I did a good job of ignoring the red flags. Once there were things I was actually worried about (drug addiction and the financial fallout, for example) it didn't even cross my mind to leave. We were married, we had a baby and I meant it when I said my vows.

That said, DDay hit me like a ton of bricks. Other than the first week, I spent the two months post DDay with my WH all the time. It was incredibly stressful, upsetting and draining. My emotions were all over the place.

We S recently, and while I am still very emotional, I already feel much better than I did before. My kids are doing okay, although it's early days and they already know things are "off." They don't have enough words to fully express their feelings or any context to understand what is happening, unfortunately. I'm just trying to be as present and loving as possible for them.

I have really hated the "messy" emotions that came with DDay. I tend to come across and see myself as a very logical person, but DDay threw all of that out the window. Now that my WH isn't present, though, I am finding it easier to get through each day. I am working through a laundry list of tasks to get things in order in case we head to D. Now that we've S, WH is sending me messages about how much he wants to R. I suppose that's typical. Honestly, that worries me most as I have found I tend to try to fix things for people. I'm aware of it, but it's still hard to resist the urge to ease his pain (even though he's hurt me so badly and he did it to himself!). The biggest thing driving me is that I feel I need to be the best I can be for my kids, and I just don't see how that's possible right now with WH.

Regarding D, for those of you that ended up going that route, did you end up in a contested or uncontested divorce (US terms)? If you tried for uncontested, how did that work out? If I go toward D, I'd obviously prefer uncontested if it's possible, given it's much cheaper and faster, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be.

Honestly, that worries me most as I have found I tend to try to fix things for people. I'm aware of it, but it's still hard to resist the urge to ease his pain (even though he's hurt me so badly and he did it to himself!).

I tend to be a "fixer" as well, so yeah.. I recognize how hard it is to control that impulse. There's a good book called, Unhealthy Helping by Shawn Burn that may be of use to you. In it, the author does a really good job of making the case that often, in our efforts to help others, we're actually doing just the opposite because we're not allowing that person to learn, grow, and become proficient. It really did open my eyes to how I was feeding into certain problems in my family dynamic.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:41 PM, Thursday, August 31st]

If I go toward D, I'd obviously prefer uncontested if it's possible

The D being uncontested is based on you and your WH. If he contests, then you don't have an uncontested D. My XWH and I pretty much did a do-it-yourself D. The family court system here had easy documentation to follow. The kids are adults, so we didn't have to do a parenting plan or figure out CS. I didn't try to get part of his pension in lieu of him not claiming spousal support.

I had it pretty easy because XWH didn't want to have to be in a courtroom and have details of his A come to light. (Details in my bio.)

I'll definitely check out that book. I've read another book when I was in past relationships called Codependent No More, but since it's mainly focused on relationships with an alcoholic (or insert drug of choice), it had limited applicability for me now. The one you recommended sounds like something I could benefit from. I'm a reader and under stress I want to learn/read everything to help make sense of my situation.

in our efforts to help others, we're actually doing just the opposite because we're not allowing that person to learn, grow, and become proficient.

This resonates a lot with me. I find it easier to see this in other people. There are a couple of people in my family that are fixers as well, and I can see the downside when I look at their actions, but I still struggle with seeing the downside with myself sometimes.

Things seem to be sinking in for my WH now that we've S. He's been sending me messages daily about how much he misses me and how he would do "anything" to fix this and how he doesn't want to live life without me.

The messages themselves make me feel anxious, guilty and scared. WH was suicidal earlier this year. The guilt is ridiculous given I am not the cause of all of this. I'm anxious because I do worry that he might hurt himself. I've been thinking about the timing if I decide to file for D and how to ensure he has a support system around him then (even when and where I would discuss D with him). Does that sound extreme? My IC reminded me that WH is an adult and responsible for his own choices and health. The fact that I feel so responsible for his wellbeing is part of the reason I feel I need to get away. I already have children, but I don't want to have another child (i.e., WH behaving like a child).

I appreciate his efforts, but I don't know if I can really ever trust him again.

You can't, clearly. He cheated in his first marriage and now again in his second. Seems to me that he learned nothing about himself or anything like values from the first rodeo.

My H doesn't consider himself an addict anymore, so he isn't trying to "do" anything to fix an addiction. Would he just be called a recovering addict if he hasn't used for years? And to be clear, these are "legal" substance addictions, but addictions nonetheless.

My mom was an alcoholic for most of my formative life (and I could tell you a LOT about being the child of an addict and how that profoundly shapes you into adulthood). She got sober in Jan 2013 and is coming up on 11 years of sobriety next year. But those 11 years didn't just happen because she 'doesn't consider herself an addict', she absolutely does consider herself to be an addict. And a huge part of how she has stayed sober and thrived in her sobriety is by nurturing it - she goes to AA, she works her steps every single day, she still has a sponsor after all these years that helps her work through things, she surrounds herself with like-minded people who are also nurturing their sobriety, she sponsors others and helps them achieve sobriety. IOW, she saturates herself with sobriety now every bit as much as she used to saturate herself with whiskey. THAT is what a recovering addict looks like IMHO.

Your wh doesn't sound like he's doing much to get down to the root cause of his addictions, and that doesn't bode well for falling back into it - the drug-taking is a cope for addicts, and unless they actively develop healthy coping mechanisms, sooner or later they are gonna fall back to the coping they know. And let me be clear - "legal" doesn't matter one iota with addicts. Alcohol is legal too and it was every bit as damaging as any other drug.

I'm not leaning towards R at this point, but I want to give myself some time away from WH to make a good decision. I'm thinking of consulting a lawyer or two soon instead, so I can understand my options.

This is an excellent plan of action. You don't have to decide one way or the other right this minute, but gathering info and giving yourself time and distance to get some clarity is really healthy and will help you a lot.

I guess I did a good job of ignoring the red flags.

Girrrrrl, me SAME. I not only ignored the red flags, I knitted a onesie of them and got in it for a decade. Don't beat yourself up about it - learn from it and let it help you to set firm boundaries for yourself and for your kids.

Now that we've S, WH is sending me messages about how much he wants to R. I suppose that's typical. Honestly, that worries me most as I have found I tend to try to fix things for people.

You know, I see a lot of similarity between addicts and cheaters. With my mom, I put up with her drunken shenaniganery for years, years and years. Because I was "helping" her by not leaving, by not being mad, by answering the phone when she was on one of her drunken tirades. But you know? I wasn't helping her, not at all. By not putting my foot down and refusing to tolerate intolerable behavior, all I was doing was enabling her to stay in her addiction.

With my xwh, it was much the same. He wanted an "open marriage" you see. And I suppose his definition of that was that I would pay all the bills and do all the adulting things while he fucked teenagers on the side. Thankfully it didn't take me years and years to connect the dots. I remember sitting with my feelings and wondering why this felt familiar, and it hit me - this felt familiar because I was trying to wrap my mind around how I could change and act to make him be happy, when the truth of it was I was NOT okay with what he was doing, and (here's the revolutionary thought) I didn't HAVE TO be okay with what he was doing because what he was doing was NOT OKAY. It felt just like the day when I finally set the boundary with my mom and told her that I was no longer prepared to tolerate her behavior because it was, in fact, INTOLERABLE to me. Thankfully me doing that with her was a large part of what made her go to AA.

With him, me setting that boundary is what ended my marriage. I can say with hindsight though, whichever way he went after me setting that hard boundary was a WIN-WIN for me. If he got serious about fixing things? Great - I have a happier stronger marriage. If he wasn't going to get serious about fixing things? Perfect - then I won't waste years and years more of my life trying to bend myself into a gordian knot for a cheating douchcanoe.

Some things I learned from both of these situations:
1. Boundaries are GOOD. Having healthy boundaries for yourself is vital to your well-being.
2. You cannot "fix" anyone except yourself. You can support someone as they fix themselves, but you cannot do it for them and it is folly to try.
3. Tolerating bullshit and poor treatment isn't love, not of yourself or of them either.
4. I want and deserve peace and I no longer have to allow anything in my life that disrupts my peace.

Regarding D, for those of you that ended up going that route, did you end up in a contested or uncontested divorce (US terms)? If you tried for uncontested, how did that work out? If I go toward D, I'd obviously prefer uncontested if it's possible, given it's much cheaper and faster, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be.

I did not have kids with my xwh thankfully, so that simplified things quite a bit. But we did an uncontested divorce that we filed ourselves and it was done in 91 days and cost about $450. You can self-file and do uncontested with kids too (at least you could where I lived at the time), there's just some extra cost because you had to take parenting classes. I think the general wisdom is the more you can agree on and the less the court has to be involved, the better. If you and your wh can hammer out a separation agreement and use a mediator to help fine-tune it that would be best. Also, not to scare you (cus I was primary breadwinner too) but he may be entitled to alimony. If you're talking to lawyers, you might ask about that versus a lump-sum arrangement - like you'll give him x amount of your retirement for him to forgo alimony (which SUCKS but it usually cheaper that way in the long run).

My advice for D, if that is indeed the way you are going, is to get an agreement in place, file, and get 'er done as quickly as possible - firstly cus the sooner it's done, the sooner your healing can get going, and two, the less time he has to start seeing dollar signs the better that is for you.

If it helps you - I was so scared of getting divorced. It is not ever what I wanted. But life on the other side of it has been amazing! My life is peaceful and calm and predictable. I get to make all my own choices. The people in my life are loving and supportive and authentic. I am emotionally stronger than I ever thought I could be. And I do not regret divorcing at ALL.

It sounds like you have a really good head on your shoulders and that you are handling this very well for where you're at. You're gonna be just fine however it shakes out. Hang in there!

Leafields, it's helpful to hear your experience. I took a look at your bio and was appalled at what you had to go through with your XWH! I'm glad you were able to do what was best for you after everything that he chose to do. Thank you for sharing your experience with your D.

I'm not sure if my WH will contest or not. Honestly, I'm worried about the long conversations that would be required to even get to the point of uncontested. I think maybe I just need more time to wrap my head around the idea to see if it would be worthwhile to try for uncontested or not. I will need to consult with attorneys to see if there are downsides to trying for uncontested and then potentially having to go the contested route. If we end up D, it won't be simple given our young children (so custody and CS issues). That said, my H was married previously and didn't have a contentious D with his 1st W, even with a child at that point. So, it's possible.

My H was suicidal earlier this year (by his own admission at various points). He told me the plan he contemplated at the time to end things and had written about it. Given we have guns in the house, I considered this a legitimate risk at the time. I worry about his mental health when or if I actually file for D. Not that that's a reason not to file, but it worries me. I don't want to feel stuck in a loveless, miserable, codependent and/or unhealthy M, if we can't get to a better place, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't feel somewhat responsible if something happened to WH (even if I know logically it's not true). And, always, what that would mean for my kids.

Ellie, you are so kind to respond with so much wisdom and sharing your experience. It's amazing how many of us eventually realize we're repeating patterns in our lives and how previous experiences with other, influential people (especially parents) have impacted future, adult relationships and choices. I appreciate you sharing your experience with your mom. I'll admit that I think part of my problem is that even though my H has told me in the past about his drug addiction, I always minimized it in my head. When he would tell me he had it under control, I believed him. I never wanted to (and still don't) nag, harass, look after, parent [insert other description of choice] my H. Day-to-day life never fit what I thought it would be if he were "really" an addict, so I assumed it wasn't that bad. Now that he's been clean for years (supposedly), he's told me more and more about what he used to do as part of his addiction, and I have a better understanding of how out of control he must have been.

And a huge part of how she has stayed sober and thrived in her sobriety is by nurturing it - she goes to AA, she works her steps every single day, she still has a sponsor after all these years that helps her work through things, she surrounds herself with like-minded people who are also nurturing their sobriety, she sponsors others and helps them achieve sobriety. IOW, she saturates herself with sobriety now every bit as much as she used to saturate herself with whiskey. THAT is what a recovering addict looks like IMHO.

As far as I know, my H has never been to NA, nor does he do any of those other things on the list.

Unfortunately, similar to the A, I realize his history with addiction doesn't bode well for R. WH was able to hide the addiction from me multiple times, why not another A?

Your wh doesn't sound like he's doing much to get down to the root cause of his addictions, and that doesn't bode well for falling back into it - the drug-taking is a cope for addicts, and unless they actively develop healthy coping mechanisms, sooner or later they are gonna fall back to the coping they know.

100% agree.

And I suppose his definition of that was that I would pay all the bills and do all the adulting things while he fucked teenagers on the side.

While this wasn't my situation, I relate to feeling very much like I've been the one doing all the "adulting" in the M. Between paying all the bills, taking care of everyone's mental and physical health and so on, I felt a lot of pressure and pretty alone.

On and shortly after DDay, it was clear WH had no idea how badly he had screwed everything up. He told me with all sincerity and with quite a bit of hope that his revelation would change things, that he never thought the A would upset me so badly or that it could possibly end our M.

I was NOT okay with what he was doing, and (here's the revolutionary thought) I didn't HAVE TO be okay with what he was doing because what he was doing was NOT OKAY.

I put up with a lot over the years, trying to make this M work. The A has shown me that I do have a firm boundary somewhere. You mentioned setting a boundary with your XWH and that ending your marriage. I'm still just trying to decide if even having those boundaries and a remorseful WH would be enough for me to consider R. I used to put up with so much in past relationships, and I think I'm just not as willing to put up with as much anymore. I didn't have a mother/father addicted to drugs/alcohol, but I did date an alcoholic for a number of years. A lot of what I'm dealing with now is taking me back to that place; a place I never thought I would have to visit again.

1. Boundaries are GOOD. Having healthy boundaries for yourself is vital to your well-being.
2. You cannot "fix" anyone except yourself. You can support someone as they fix themselves, but you cannot do it for them and it is folly to try.
3. Tolerating bullshit and poor treatment isn't love, not of yourself or of them either.
4. I want and deserve peace and I no longer have to allow anything in my life that disrupts my peace.

These are pure gold. I'll be revisiting these many times, I'm sure.

Also, not to scare you (cus I was primary breadwinner too) but he may be entitled to alimony.

In my state, adultery bars you from any alimony claim, so I'm hopeful that won't be an issue, but I'll have to talk to an attorney to get their take.

I'm so glad to hear you came out on the other side happier and more at peace. If I go that route, I hope to be able to look back and feel similarly. It's only been a short time without WH, but I do think the house is more peaceful without his emotional outbursts. I'm obviously emotional right now, but I'm coming to see that I'm not nearly as emotional as he was, especially without the stress of his moods affecting me and the kids.

When he would tell me he had it under control, I believed him. I never wanted to (and still don't) nag, harass, look after, parent [insert other description of choice] my H. Day-to-day life never fit what I thought it would be if he were "really" an addict, so I assumed it wasn't that bad. Now that he's been clean for years (supposedly), he's told me more and more about what he used to do as part of his addiction, and I have a better understanding of how out of control he must have been.

I have been sober for 25 years. Being sober won't solve your problems like being tall doesn't make you Lebron James. It takes work. Period. If your husband is not actively participating in a recovery program, long term sobriety is not sustainable. None of us have our addictions "under control". This is thinking in direct opposition to the mentality necessary to stay sober. Sobriety is a daily reprieve. An admission of powerlessness over our addiction(s) is necessary to begin the work of recovery. Step one of the 12 steps of AA states: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable." According to your post, life for your husband continues to be chaotic, and he is demonstrating effed up coping mechanisms. He is still out of control. If he cannot take the actions of accepting that he is and will always be an addict, become willing to be honest to himself and others, and get some help, then there will continue to be dysfunctional and self-destructive acting out. He has not learned the tools necessary to remain sober, and, TBH, some of his behavior sounds like he might be using.

I also want to point out that there is the possibility of a cross addiction. His drug of choice might have been opioids in the past, but since his addiction has never been addressed, he could be using other drugs, sex, gambling, risky behavior, etc., etc. as a coping mechanism to avoid his feelings. Addiction is what we call "cunning, baffling and powerful". It is always ready to take over when you are not doing what it takes to stay clean.

1. 12-step meetings. They are on Zoom so no excuses. The suggestion is 90 meetings in 90 days. This will help him to begin to learn the tools to deal with compulsion, or "cravings" and to begin to learn healthy coping mechanisms.
2. Find a sponsor and get to work.
3. You cannot do this for him.
4. You cannot nice him into doing this. Addicts see kindness as weakness and they will manipulate you with it. Leaving him or separating and making him live on his own may make him seek recovery. Giving him a nice place to stay allows him to think he can sweep his behavior under the rug, like all of the other times he has acted out. Every addict has their bottom. They need to find it in order to willingly get help.

My H doesn't consider himself an addict anymore, so he isn't trying to "do" anything to fix an addiction.

This, quite frankly, is addict bullshit. It shows you that he wants to continue to let his addiction control his thinking. The disease of addiction does not disappear. It goes into hiding and springs out at us in any moment of weakness.

I am NOT saying that your husband is using, but his behavior is chaotic and out of control. He will learn a better, healthier way to live if he deals with his addiction issues. I am glad you are seeing an IC. Please make sure that this person is aware of your husband's past issues and that they have some experience with infidelity and addiction. It will save time and heartache in the end.