SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My W past behavior was helping innumerable people (she wrote a text book used by US government agencies and some colleges), and she's helped a number of other people with her teaching, counseling, and being a good friend and W (though not during her A).

The vast majority of us, including me, have done admirable and some horrible things. IOW, using past behavior to predict the future isn't very reliable - we can't predict whether the drive to do good or the drive to do evil will prevail.

Some people do what I'll call PR good person actions. They will do good things that are somehow publicly acknowledged even by just one or two other people. These actions have some benefit to them. I have learned not to believe in people who for example make a hospital visit or a soup kitchen when there are cameras present or just people they know will send out the "good word" about them. How many linked in profiles speak of humanitarian groups they belong to on any given year?

It what a person does when nobody is watching, when there is no benefit or consequences that the real person becomes plainly in sight.

This is why we do not hire people with larceny in their history to guard the diamond vault.

Our history is the CV of our lives and the cumulative sum of our actions. Betraying a loved one cannot be spun into something less than what it was.

She still refuses to take a poly. I'm so messed up about this. I don't know what to do.

I guess you have to decide what your hard lines are….
I’m not you, but if I were, they would be something like this,

Tell the truth now and pass the poly = we’ll try to work on it and not divorce.

Refuse the poly = I must assume you are still lying and I am filing for divorce on Monday.

She basically confirmed that the EA continued into our marriage. I'm really, really lost right now.

Did she confirm the PA?

Did she confirm the PA?

Nope. We're going to talk tonight, again. I told her, again, that I want total and complete honesty. If I don't get that, time for a poly. If she refuses, I think I'm going to talk to an attorney.

A totally different game now that the A spilled over during the marriage. Stay strong OP.

Nope. We're going to talk tonight, again. I told her, again, that I want total and complete honesty. If I don't get that, time for a poly. If she refuses, I think I'm going to talk to an attorney.

I think this is the best course of action. I'd tell her that she has one chance to come clean about the gist of the relationship. Not the details; that will take time. Just the basic gist. Whether it was physical or not. I would tell her "If I get the sense that you're not being truthful or if I feel that I need to confirm your story, I'm going to ask you once to agree to a polygraph. If you refuse, I will be consulting with an attorney." And then do it. And don't waver. And DON'T issue an ultimatum if you don't mean it. There's a reason that "You have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it" is a favorite saying around here. It's really true.

You also need to be willing to be open once again about your affair, if it comes up. Even if you were completely forthcoming and have been an open book ever since. Agree to a polygraph, if need be. Use it as a bargaining chip. "I'm willing to prove that I'm telling the complete truth. Are you?" You don't get to demand accountability from her and then shirk it.

My spidey senses are questioning why it only took a year to get over your infidelity. It's possible that she wasn't as bothered by it as most people because she viewed it as leveling the playing field or karma. 🤨

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 10:28 PM, Thursday, December 12th]

My spidey senses are questioning why it only took a year to get over your infidelity. It's possible that she wasn't as bothered by it as most people because she viewed it as leveling the playing field or karma. 🤨

I totally agree and the few (2) friends that I've told about our current situation have said the same thing.

If you were to walk into the break-room at work to get that last slice of cake that had your name on it only to find an empty fridge and your coworker staring at you in fright and blushing, sitting at a table with an empty dish in front of them, licking icing off their fingers and cake-crumble on their chin... Would you need a written confession before taking it as a fact he ate your slice?

Your wife’s stance on the poly... She’s eaten the cake.

I am basing the following on you wanting results.

I think you might have to take a different tactic on this. I think you need to emphasize to your wife how much you WANT the marriage to work, but that this issue is big enough right now to put it all at risk. That right now you are having to decide if your future and your happiness can be found in a marriage where your wife does not trust you. With your past (your infidelity) and the length of your marriage then you are confident you two could work things out if it turns out she cheated, but what YOU can’t find content with is the doubt – that you are certain she isn’t being truthful.

You offered the polygraph as a tool to prove her honesty.
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Be aware that the poly does not measure "truth" but it indicates honesty. Like if your wife thinks the moon is made of cheese she would pass the poly if asked "is the moon made of rocks" with a "no", despite the answer being wrong.
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You need to emphasize that. If she is hiding something that she then shares with you in the weeks leading to a possible polygraph then that might hurt. But if that makes her pass the poly then it will confirm that she trusts you with the truth. She trusts the marriage to handle the truth. If she insists nothing happened and passes, then its up to YOU to accept she’s being honest. It’s a win-win for both of you if she passes.
Make it clear to her that there is no intention of making the poly hard to pass if the questions are based on what she claims is the truth. Like if she insists nothing happened then she has nothing to fear if asked "did you have sex with FriendsName" because the poly will confirm her "no". It’s a simple yes or no question.

What failing the poly will indicate is that she doesn’t trust you and doesn’t believe in the marriage. What refusing to take the poly will indicate is that she isn’t telling you the truth because she doesn’t trust you with the truth. Both of these scenarios make you doubt you should be here.

I think if you can get that message across to her she will open up.

As I have followed your thread, your situation seems to have gone from bad to worse. The fact that she cheated before the marriage and that the cheating continued for some time during the marriage is devastating. There is so much more to understand about the affair now. Since the AP is supposedly your good friend, it probably means that they have had opportunity to be together and to communicate frequently without raising suspicion. This raises the question of how long and how deep the affair went. It may be still active one way or the other. You have talked to both about the pre-marriage issues. Have they talked to each other to coordinate their stories and manage you?

As has been said, you have 2 choices. Accept what she is willing to tell you and move on. This seems extremely unhealth for you in the long run, but it is your choice. The other choice is to face the real likely hood that your marriage is ending. You must be willing to lose a marriage in order to have a chance of saving it and rebuilding a relationship with her. If your are willing to end the marriage, but want a chance of saving it I would suggest the following (which is pretty in line with what others have suggested).

Talk to her and tell her that you need the full truth in order to continue in the marriage. Tell her that it is up to her if she thinks the marriage is worth saving or not. Tell her that you will give her a few days to decide and then set a date (less than a week) to sit down together and she can then tell you if she has decided to end the marriage or come clean. Make sure that she understands that those are the only 2 choices she has. Tell her you are giving no guarantees, but if she is honest with you, then you will consider the possibility of reconciliation if that is what she wants. Tell her that if she refuses or is less than honest, you will divorce her for sure (and mean it). Tell her that if she comes clean, her truthfulness will have to be verified by a lie detector test.

If you haven't already, I would suggest that you meet your "friend" face to face and tell him that he is no longer welcome in your life. Give him one last chance to tell you the truth if he ever had any true friendship feelings toward you. I would even tell him to stay out of your life but her is welcome to your wife if that is what he wants (just to see what happens).

This has turned from a ongoing painful situation to a complete sh*t storm. You are in the right place and you will continue to get great advice. Keep posting and good luck.

RangerS,

Agree with everything you said. I'm not sure if they've talked since this whole thing blew up. She swears they haven't. This will be one of the few questions that will be in the poly, I think. Now I need to figure out which questions to ask. It kind of sucks because there isn't anyone in our area that does them. Anyone have experience with "Global Polygraph Network"? Must be some kind of service that has a list of polygraphers that they contract through. It's expensive $900ish. But I'm willing to pay that to see where she's actually at.

Thanks everyone for listening and the advice. This is pretty rough.

[This message edited by DakotaBoy at 4:03 PM, Friday, December 13th]

I have no experience with polygraphs, but I would suggest that you search until you find one that has extensive experience working or the Police or Military Etc. A good polygraph operator will be able to help you with the questions. You only get 3 or 4. It is expensive, but well worth it if you come out of it with a much better understanding about the past and current state of your relationship. Good luck.

OP you said thrusday you were going to talk again in the evening. Is there a summary of that discussion? Did she agree to a poly? Both her attitude and what she said are relevant.

Agree with everything you said. I'm not sure if they've talked since this whole thing blew up. She swears they haven't. This will be one of the few questions that will be in the poly, I think.

Consider her writing the answers to all of your questions and then one of the poly questions would be, "Is everything you wrote in that document completely true and exhaustive?", and one other could be, "Are you withholding any info DakotaBoy would want to know?"

OP you said thrusday you were going to talk again in the evening. Is there a summary of that discussion? Did she agree to a poly? Both her attitude and what she said are relevant.

She agreed to the poly. I told her if she refused and if she fails that I'd be speaking to an attorney. Going to put this on hold through the Holidays though.

Consider her writing the answers to all of your questions and then one of the poly questions would be, "Is everything you wrote in that document completely true and exhaustive?"

I like this idea.

Curious to know why she refused to take the poly in the first place if she's agreed to do it now. Be prepared for:

1. A parking lot confession.

2. If she fails, she will use the excuse of the test being inaccurate.

I think because I threatened her. And meant it. And agree on both points.

When you’re willing to back up an ultimatum with action, they work everytime. Either they get you what you want/need or the ultimatum’s reaction tells you the truth of the situation.

I think because I threatened her. And meant it.

I think you should reframe it as "I set a firm boundary and I meant it" rather than "I threatened her". You're making it clear that lying - whether overtly or by omission, is a dealbreaker for you. It's not really a threat, because the only harm that could come to her would be by her own hand.

Good job, by the way. Stand firm. Stay strong.