SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

10-17-2024

Hi all,

I wanted to write on my situation – and would love advice and any analysis on what I should do – or how I should feel.

TL;DR on advice I’m seeking:

1) How should I feel about the three stories she told me? Are they linked?

2)I don’t think my wife is hiding a physical affair. But should I be more concerned? Am I too trusting?

3)My wife volunteered everything here – and while there is always room to suspect there is more – maybe there isn’t?

4)What should I do next, if anything?

So, to start off, I read Dr. Glass’s book – and it changed my perspective on relationships. My wife and I have been married for 10 years, and have dated for 20 years. So we have known each other for a decent amount of time at this point.

I want to state that, my wife and I didn’t have a "bad" marriage, but it certainly wasn’t a "great" marriage. Over the last year – I really felt that something was "off" in the relationship. Just a gnawing feeling. I thought that maybe there was an affair. So, doing some deep diving and research, I came across Dr. Glass’s book. This book is fantastic for explaining what a great relationship should look like: Being best friends with each other.

I was guilty of not being best friends with my wife – and for not being emotionally open to her. I wrote a very long letter (1 month ago), and read her this letter while we sat up and talked in bed. I lined out all the ways I felt I had closed myself off to her, and asked that she open herself up to me. I told her that, if she had indeed had an affair, I would be very open to discussing and forgiving.

Before I go on, to cut to the chase for many people, I want to clearly state that my wife never confessed to any physical affair – or even illicit back-and-forth messages. But in reading Dr. Glass’s book and doing research, I believe there was emotional cheating and emotional infidelity (more on that below).

While my wife told me a couple of stories during her "confession" period, there are three I want to get opinions on.

STORY 1: The first she told me that night, was about a colleague at her work (Dan). This colleague works on a different floor in a different department. She told me that 10 years ago, while we were engaged, Dan had tried to send her flowers and she had rejected the flowers. If that sounds like a weird story to you – that’s exactly how it was presented to me. My wife piecemealed information on this event – and…over the course of a week, and after many many questions from me, the full story was that another co-worker of hers (Mary), had apparently been "saying things" Dan and encouraging him, and that culminated in Dan sending my wife flowers. Although my wife "rejected" the flowers, she says that the next day, when she ran into Dan, she put her hand on his arm, said that she was flattered by the flowers, and said that she would be interested if she were single. But, she says she is engaged. During this confession, she told me he was extremely good looking and that she was shocked that he would have been interested in her. She swears she never had any inappropriate conversations with him, or really even knew him. They were in completely different departments and she said they barely talked. Edit: My wife said she started "following" him on Facebook for a couple of months after that point.

STORY 2: The second story my wife tells me (10 days after our initial talk on being honest) was about a man she did training with at her work. She went to another state to do this training. She said she developed a crush on this guy (Paul). Paul was rugged and outdoorsy (opposite of me). She said that this wasn’t a passing crush – but one that lingered over the course of a "month or two". She said she would look him up on Facebook over time. She said this attraction faded after those two months.

STORY 3: The last story I was told, and I think the worst. After two full weeks of saying we were going to be honest with each other, my wife finally capitulates when I said "do you swear, on the lives of our children, you’ve told me everything?". So then she tells me this story. She starts off by asking me if I had ever been "attracted to someone else" while we were married. And honestly, I haven’t been attracted to anyone else. No crushes or anything. She then goes on to tell me about an "attraction" she had to a mutual friend we have at church – John. She tells me during this initial confession that she had crushes on him from late 2019 to early 2020. And then in 2021. She said that it was never physical, and that they barely talked outside of church. She showed me her phone, and it seems to be true. She and John were on a church council together that met once a quarter. I had noticed that John did seem to like her and like talking to her when we were at church together. But nothing crazy. That was the end of the story. I thanked her for being honest, and didn’t really understand why she thought this was inappropriate. So two days later, I follow up and ask her to provide me, in writing, what her thoughts were with John.

STORY 3 CONTINUED: She tells me that she felt an attraction to him in 2019 and 2020, and that she would feel uncomfortable being around him. From what she described – nothing here sounded too bad – just an attraction that can happen to people. A couple months is certainly not fleeting, but nothing huge in my opinion. COVID happens in 2020 – so we don’t see John at all. Fast forward to early 2021 – and we start seeing John again at church. My wife and I are in the midst of buying a new house, and we are also trying to have another child. We had been striking out for a couple of months, and that led to some fighting and angst. She says that from April 2021 to June 2021, she started thinking about John "multiple times a week", and fantasizing about him. My wife rarely masturbates, and she admits to masturbating over him. She would fantasize about "lying naked" together and "being close". She also fantasized about something happening to me (death I presume) – and that allowing her to be with him. This lasted two months until, during one of the times we were trying to conceive, she says "John’s face" popped up in her head when her eyes were closed. She says that after this moment, she stopped fantasizing about him, and never had feelings for him again. From my perspective, the only things that seemed somewhat suspicious were John’s brother (from a state far away) Facebook friending her and talking to her non-stop while I sat next to her at church event. Coincidentally, we also decided to switch churches, and I was very happy about going to a new church (without knowing anything about John), and she got upset and started crying. In her defense, John was also leaving the church, so it’s possible she wasn’t crying over him.

Thanks for getting to the end – I put my questions up front, but would love advice on what everyone thinks.

[This message edited by BShopQuartet at 2:41 PM, Friday, October 18th]

Welcome to SI. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read, plus some with bull's eye icons. The Healing Library is also a great resource. I'm glad you've read Not Just Friends, as it is a recommendation we have for relationships.

For me, being attracted to somebody isn't necessarily an emotional affair. Acting on that attraction and keeping secrets about it would be.

Do any of her behaviors bother you? Maybe that should be something you two discuss and maybe that will help you work out your feelings.

Hi thanks.

Good questions. All the stories I posted were from her perspective. So I'm wondering if these stories seem believable or not. I know it may be impossible to answer but I have no idea what is normal and what is not.

I may be old fashioned, but buying flowers for a work colleague as a means of...whatever...seems like it would only be done if there was something there?

And certainly nothing wrong with attractions. We all have them. We were very emotionally distant and it impacted our marriage for the last five years.

I'm just not sure what to ask in the event there was some sort of physical affair that was hidden.

BSQ,

The exact same thing happened to my now wife 45 years ago. We were dating exclusively and it was well known at the company. Another guy that worked at the same company as both of us showed up one day at a client site with flowers. My then girlfriend accepted them, thanked him and told him that although she thought he was very nice, she wasn't interested. She said he was very disappointed. Before the flowers arrived she had only said "Hi" to him a few times in the hallway. As far as I know he never got in touch again, this was long before cell phones (even before answering machines were common). She gave the flowers to one of the other women in the office.

I also know of two male friends around the same time did the same thing, trying to get the attention of woman they saw often but didn't know.

Her story matches what happened to us. So, it may happen more than often than you think.

Hopes this helps.

TooOld

Thank you much for that story.

That's why I'm here - and not at a cesspool like Reddit. Looking for real stories.

@TooOld - When this happened to your wife, did she tell you right away?

The challenging thing for me was my wife sitting on this story for 10 years and her admission to me that she felt she was inappropriate in how she "shot him down". That's part of why it makes me feel there might be more. And the way the whole story was presented to me, she left off most of the details early on (that he was very attractive, that she ended up following him on facebook for a couple months, her self-admitted part of inappropriately "Rejecting" him).

I know it's very, very mild - especially compared to a lot of stories here if that's all there is.

Do you think I keep digging? Or just accept this story at face value at this point?

[This message edited by BShopQuartet at 2:42 PM, Friday, October 18th]

I read your post last night and have been scratching my head over it ever since. Does your wife simply dislike you? Why would she "confess" to things that could only diminish you without confessing to any actual adulterous acts? Minimizing? Maybe. I don’t think she is honoring or cherishing you, regardless of any physical interactions with her crushes. I just can’t get over that she’d tell you that she envisioned another guy’s face while making love to you. I think that is just cruel. Why come clean about that, except to wound you?

Do you think I keep digging? Or just accept this story at face value at this point?

Consider one of two options to move forward:

1. Mouth closed, eyes wide open. Stop asking her about more, let her think that all your concerns are now relieved, but go into surveillance mode. See if you have any of her old phones you’d could potentially harvest data from. Examine your phone bills from months/years past and look for high frequency numbers (although with apps, this method is quickly becoming irrelevant since things like iMessage don’t appear on phone bills). If she used a google email account for example, they tend to "archive" but not completely delete old emails. Maybe there’s something there. The point is to convince her to let her guard down so you can more readily investigate. Never confront unless/until you find hard evidence.

2. Ask her to write a timeline incorporating these 3 stories and then tell her that while your head believes her, your heart is truly struggling, and that a polygraph would be an enormous help to YOU so you can conclusively put all these things behind you and move forward in the healthiest way possible. In the polygraph, have her asked both to confirm the accuracy and completeness of the written timeline, as well as ask whether there’s been ANY activity of an inappropriate sexual nature with anyone else (the examiner will define this, including flirting, sexting, etc.) since you two were "exclusive" as a couple. The idea here is to frame this as a help to YOU and not that you think she’s a bald-face liar.

If you’re anything like me, where you are now would eat at me and I would need more, hence the above options. Hope this helps.

@Expectations:

Great question and analysis. It's almost scary that you picked up on the "liking, cherishing and honoring".

I told my wife that I knew she loved me, but she didn't really like me over the course of our 20 year relationship. Does that make sense?

Regarding the guy's face - She felt that she had a period of 2 months where she thought of this guy often and desired to be with him. From the masturbating, fantasizing about him, fantasizing about me being "gone", and the "face" incident, she said she wanted to come clean about her thoughts and what she thought was inappropriate. For me, it hurt to hear because we were trying to conceive a child too - which made the sex more special.

The whole nature of the discussion, which started about a month ago, was to try and repair our connection. So these were the stories she told me. Things she felt she hid from me. Some for obvious reasons.

We have known each other for 20 years, and this wasn't the first time the "diminishing" happened either. Very early in our relationship, she shared many sexual stories about her former serious boyfriend. We were very young at the time - but I never understood why she went into the depth on these stories or felt the need to share. Maybe a connection to these events there all these years later?

And lastly - since this is a forum for infidelity, it just comes back to...is there something more? She admits the "infatuation" or whatever you want to call it was harming our relationship and marriage.

@Gr8ful -

Thanks - for those two options. I've seen polygraph mentioned a couple of times here. Has this helped people?

If nothing else - maybe it would either force a confession, OR, if she were willing to do it, that might just help me move on.

Surveillance would be tough - to your point. She is incredibly smart and would most likely have hid her tracks if there were something.

Perhaps she is being honest.

Maybe you two could work on any issues of concern and activities and conversations to bring you closer.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 5:49 PM, Friday, October 18th]

I probably should not be the one answering this because from the moment that I dedicated myself to my husband, I have never been interested in another man. I have certainly never fantasized about any of them that cross my path. The only fantasies I might have after reading a book that did not end well or ended too soon. I will fantasize about that. Sometimes it’s a romance sometimes it’s a murder mystery. I just put my take on it, but not fantasize about the man himself. I don’t know why your wife keeps doing this but there’s something either about the two of you or there’s something in her. Pay attention to her childhood. This is an old trope for me. I think we bring all of our baggage into our adult lives and they often impact how we act, how we react and how we think. Your wife might be fantasizing about getting attention from these men because it feeds some empty hole in her. She does not act on that because she loves you but you can’t fill that empty hole because no one can. I realize I’m putting a whole story on her that might not be true, but people who feel the need to constantly have attention were somehow made to feel very small growing up. The best thing I can think of for you to do is to not talk about what her fantasies that are but talk about what her childhood was like. Make sure she remembers all of it because sometimes if it was bad enough, it gets hidden away in memory and she can’t recall it, but it’s there running her life. That’s what I think is happening with your wife. If she swears she has never acted on any of these fantasies, then it’s always about hoping someone thinks that she is a desirable worthwhile human being.

@Cooley

Thank you - and this seems very plausible actually. It would make sense why it's so confusing to me. She had a childhood where your reasoning does make sense.

I really appreciate your analysis and the time you spent crafting this - as this might be the most likely reason for everything she mentioned - and that perhaps there really is no physical acts accompanying it.

Her three stories spread weeks apart each became a little worse than the last. That's trickle truth in action. She's calibrating what she discloses to determine how much she can come clean about without losing her marriage. Even more concerning is none of them seem to have been in the last year when you finally noticed something wrong with her connection to you. While we can't determine for sure that what's she's told you is the complete story, it's pretty likely that there are more damaging stories to be told. Someone that willing and able to develop crushes that proceeds to emotionally disengage from their spouse, it would be surprising that there isn't a current crush. That current crush will be more important to her than even John as that moved her far enough from you that you noticed.

I've spent a lot of time working away from home for long training classes and road warrior stints. I developed one crush, worked with lots of attractive young women, fantasized a lot, though mainly about being with my W instead of being alone during those long evenings on the road.

On their own, your W's stories don't bother me. But you picked up on 'diminishing'. I get that the stories are causing you to question the security of your relationship. Do you usually feel secure enough in your M, or is insecurity a common thought for you?

Do you think your W had all these memories when you raised the issue you raised and trickled the truth out to you, or do you think it took these weeks for the memories to surface and she told you soon after she remembered?

No one here knows your sitch or your W as well as you do. What are your answers to your questions?

I think you need more info.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:57 PM, Friday, October 18th]

@sisoon - thank you for the reply.

I wasn't insecure at all before these stories and discussions. I'd almost say we were more "indifferent" towards each other.

Re: Trickle truthing: For sure this was trickle truthing. It took like 10 days for her to reveal the other stories. The first story she told me was about Dan with the flowers. And even then, she didn't volunteer many details. Just presented as "this guy tried to give me flowers and I sent them away".

The John situation was one where she said she intended to "bring it to her grave". She said she felt very guilty over it.

Since it is trickle truthing and piecemealing of info - the question is "why?".

From my perspective, it feels like I'm waiting for "more" - even though there hasn't been any more revelations over the last two weeks or so.

I struggle to answer my own questions - which is why I'm very appreciative of the high-quality perspectives here.

Either:

1) My wife has some sort of unresolved childhood problems that caused issues in our relationship but the stories are the extent of it. (**Note: I fully take responsibility for my problems and mistakes in the relationship, but I'm just focusing on her part here on this site).

2) There are more to these three stories - and will take time to come out.

3) My wife is lying and there is a lot more out there: Either more stories or a lot more details.

In listening to the many level-headed people here...I'd probably guess #1 right now.

Have you asked her directly is she had a PA

@Hotdog -

Yes - she has denied any PA.

Old timer here the trickling of truth is not good. It will make you think there's always more to come.
I would demand a timeline and immunity of there are additional things or details not shared.

I would also maintain the right for a poly after and make clear to her you will do it regardless of the info due to her slow cing around with information. And if she wants to rebuild the trust and start rebuilding the M she absolutely needs to understand the importance of honesty at this point.

I also would demand she have full STD testing both pelvic and blood work. If there was nothing physical she will up at the chance to prove she is clean.

Has she read the book as well? If not ask her to.
Also ask she get into IC to figure out her whys and clarify what her triggers to these episodes as well.

I understand your stress over this and have been there myself. Is it possible that more happened? Yes, it is. People on this forum will suspect that more happened quite often because of the experience of infidelity. Is it possible that she has disclosed the full truth? Yes, it is. In my case more did happen and she confessed it to me proactively and voluntarily. Do I still wonder if I have the full story? Yes, maybe sometimes but in the end I have chosen to believe her. She has shown me no concerns in the years after and I have no evidence at all that anything else occurred. So I believe what she confessed.

It is hard for most people to be intimate with details like she has shared. Particularly the fantasizing and his image in her head story. Sharing that is a degree of intimacy that many couples do not have. Is it painful? Sure, but you can look at it as intimacy that is potentially a gift to the relationship. And let's be real here, your wife is not the first person to think about a fantasy or another person when having sex with her spouse. Maybe you have never done it but both my wife and I have admitted that we sometimes fantasize mentally during sex. I don't typically think of a specific person and neither does my wife as far as I know but that dynamic is not uncommon.

Also, my wife told me once that a contractor subtly hit on her but she disclosed it to me years after. I was not happy and asked why she didn't mention it then. Her answer was she thought I might confront the guy and I might get physical with him so she kept it to herself. Some here will read this and say she slept with him. I don't think so, I believe her. Attractive women get hit on frequently and I am guessing they don't tell their husbands every instance when it happens. I probably haven't told my wife every time a woman flirts with me either.

Have to follow up on Trdd. I have an extremely beautiful daughter who has been stalked by several men. One happened to be a husband of a very good friend. She dropped the friend rather than tell her what he was doing. This has gone on since she hit puberty. She is happily married. No flirting. Nothing. But there are men who think a friendly smile means something. If you have a wife who has brought her vulnerability into adulthood this might cause two damaged people into flirting, each hoping to get some feel goods out of it. Not an affair necessarily, but a temporary cessation of anxiety. One thing that runs under the surface of many posts on here are stories that seem to be caused by anxiety and depression. I don’t know what we are doing to each other that expend so much time and attention on superficial relationships that include cheating. I have seen enough online to see people giving most of their attention to other people and, of all things, pets. I love my dog but I love my husband and children more. It is sad that our connections are so weak we don’t even seem to expect loyalty anymore.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 6:32 PM, Saturday, October 19th]