SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry I think I’m addicted to posting threads on here for people’s wise insights.

We’re all new here at this thing called life. It’s literally our first time living so we learn as we go.
Isn’t the whole point of life that nothing it set in stone. Things change and people get do overs, thus, a chance to redeem themselves all the time. Any time they want actually.

So is the same to be said for people who are unfaithful? And does that mean in the same relationship, or is it that they a get a do over to be better but for someone else?

Why is there such a stigma that if someone cheats society expect you (near enough tell you) to end it? Why do cheaters not get the same redemption offered?

I think I’m in denial stage of my grief to be honest (you’ll know from my other thread that my head is deeply stuck in the sand at present) perhaps me not wanting to accept the reality of my relationship and the situation I’ve been thrown into but sometimes we have a good day and I look at my partner and think how well we know each other and get on and fit together that maybe it’s not such a big deal?

He’s all in now so I should be happy? and anyone new could (and likely will based on my experience and all the horror stories I read here) pull the rug from under me again if I leave and move on with someone else anyway as cheating just seems to be the norm/ accepted/ part of the history of every relationship nowadays so..better the devil you know, right? Maybe I don’t need to overthink my choices and life plans when I can just continue on this path I had originally thought out with him? 😬🤷🏼‍♀️

Have I gone crazy? Maybe I have and that’s my cue to get out?! lol

I’m do know I’m not happy right now(and I will tell him the areas I need us to focus on) but I think a lot of my unhappiness is partly my own doing by entertaining my incessant overthinking. Maybe if I just get on with life like nothing happened it will go away and we can life happily ever after again. Is that what most people do in these situations anyway?

Why am I making this so hard for myself?!

Also I really apologise as I feel like my tone reads quite passive aggressive which was not intentional or personal - I’m just very bitter right now.

Red Robin.

We are so much alike in our thinking it’s crazy. I don’t think that we overthink at all. I think we are trying to figure out a way to accept the shitty way our marriages turned out , trying to figure out how something like this could ever happen to us.

There are many times through the day I let my guard down , I tell myself I deserve to be happy and he’s the best version of himself that I have ever seen. So I do , I let it down , I breathe , we make amazing love, we laugh , watch a movie , take his bike out , then the next day I hate him. I hate him for what he’s done to me mentally , what he could have and still could take away from our kids.

To answer your question, I don’t think he deserves a second chance , I do think he could be a better partner for me or actually for someone else if I leave. The amount of work he’s done in such a short time is insane, it needs to continue a lot longer than this for me to think his new version is here to stay.
I think people say "once a cheater always a cheater" because
A. Either they got cheated on and they are bitter , I mean aren’t we all
B. It takes a lot of work for a cheater to change and many don’t do the work so in fact most stay cheaters

If you ask me I think for a long time we will struggle with being fully happy with our H no matter how much work they’ve done.
They murdered our hearts , our marriage, our idea of love. I keep searching for a way off this rollercoaster of hell. I ask the same questions , read the same articles, make him tell me the same shit and nothing. I mean NOTHING helps. He even tells me he will tell me anything but he knows after he tells me I’ll be the same. Some days I want to sleep all day until this shit passes.

I dread our happy moments because I know shortly after I will spiral into oblivion.

I don’t think you sound crazy…I think you sound UNhealed.

How much work, how much focus, are you putting on yourself?

I think infidelity opens up a lot of wounds, obvious ones in the marriage, but other unresolved wounds throughout our entire life experience.

But we can get tunnel-visioned on just the actual cut (the cheating)…and all our focus goes to it, and when we aren’t making progress like we think we should be, then our focus goes to deciding if we need to end it or give more effort.

At this point in the game, you ideally should be leaning more into the relief of healing. The fact that you’re still seeming to struggle with the D or R suggests that maybe you’re caught in the trap I described above?

When you’re healed, the choices/directions become much clearer. They kinda happen organically - like you are wanting. ❤️

From your bio, you were together 11 years and he had a 4 year affair.

You said "he’s all in now so shouldn’t I be happy?"

No. Never was there an infidelity clause in the relationship contract. It wasn’t "we are exclusive but if you’re hiding something and fuck another woman for 4 years behind my back and get her pregnant, but find yourself and really start putting effort into us after dealing the most damage emotionally you ever could then it’s ok" situation.

You don’t owe him anything, certainly not another chance. People always say leave after being cheated on because cheating shows such a deep core issue that it isn’t worth the risk of fixing. There’s no good data on this, so I won’t say once a cheater always a cheater. What I will say is that cheating indicates excessive selfishness. It is proven that above all else they come first. It requires a lot to change. It requires them to be humble, to rip down their ego and pride, to give up their control. And make no mistake, an affair is fueled by control. The cheating spouse/partner has all of the cards and while in the affair seem to take satisfaction from the deception.

Cheating also proves that they will take the path of least resistance no matter the consequences. Real change requires pain, honesty, admitting responsibility, and that is hard for a lot of people.

It’s a cliche I know, but Dante put betrayal as the ultimate sin at the lowest level of hell. There is a reason that even 700 years ago people all instantly recognized that level of pain.

Also, redemption isn’t about salvation of the relationship. It doesn’t matter if he actually changes and truly becomes a safe and loving partner. It’s ok to say, good for you, I forgive you and be your best, just not with me.

Maybe if I just get on with life like nothing happened it will go away and we can life happily ever after again. Is that what most people do in these situations anyway?

You are a changed person, and there is no going back. You’ve been given a glimpse behind the curtain on the crooked timber of humanity. You know things from experience that you’ve only heard about before. There is no going back.

Why is there such a stigma that if someone cheats society expect you (near enough tell you) to end it? Why do cheaters not get the same redemption offered?

I’ve seen plenty of pressure applied for people to stay together too.

If there was no stigma, no external pressure, if it was only you and your husband, what would you do? Whatever it is that’s what you should do in order to be true to yourself. Just make sure you give yourself the option to change your mind at any time.

I totally resonate with your post and understand where you’re coming from. I’ve always said/thought everyone is deserving of a second chance, especially if that person is wanting to make the required changes and prove themselves through consistent actions. I try to tell myself that if it were me wanting that second chance and I was doing all the "right" things, that over time I could redeem myself. However, I will also say that it’s easier said than done, especially given the offence that has been committed to me and because I’m the one having to grant this second chance.

Don’t get me started with the "once a cheater always a cheater" … I hate this phrase so much. Maybe it’s because now that I’ve been cheated on, I don’t want to believe it’s true and want to believe that people genuinely understand the pain they’ve caused the first time and they don’t ever want to do that again. Somebody on SI (I forget who) … phrased it as "once a cheater, now I know what your capable of" - I think I can get on board with it being said this way.

I think it was during those initial weeks after Dday I literally sat staring off into space and tried to tell myself that exact thing … "it’s not a big deal." I tried to tell myself that my marriage was in such a bad spot for a long time, I denied my H love/affection, there was zero communication, etc … what did I expect would happen, it was bound to happen. I told myself over and over (in a very fucked up way) … "I get it." It wasn’t until when the reality hit me and I started thinking on a deeper level that, fuck no, cheating IS a big deal and there is no reason or excuse plausible enough to lessen its significance.

Like you, I’m not happy right now. I desperately want to be (not sure if that’s with my H or not). I think we can be happy and get to a better place, but that’s not in view right now and I’m not sure if I will be able to stay on this shitty path long enough to see it. My H is currently doing the right(ish) things that keep me "intrigued" to see where this could go. Sometimes I think I could be happy with someone else - someone who hasn’t lied through their teeth and repeatedly stabbed me in the back. Now that I’m apart of the infidelity club, I am no longer naive to the fact it could happen with somebody else - the risk of infidelity will forever be lurking, whereas before it was never a worry (oh to be able to go back to those days).

Clearly us "newbies" still have a ways to go on our road to healing. I’m a firm believer that I will be given clarity one way or another as I get a little further down this path.

When I read the title of this I thought to myself ‘I think a bit of both’ 😂😂😂

It’s such a cycle of good and bad feelings isn’t??? I have been to two different counselling session on these exact feelings, once with a therapist and once with a psychologist.

I am always stuck trying to decide if R and D is right for me. To me there are too many negatives and positives to both that it seems to make the decision impossible and so I can sit in misery feeling ‘stuck’.

I agree with what you said in that infidelity just seems to be everywhere. I went to dinner with my sister and two very close friends and all of us have had our husbands or long term partners cheat on us. I was just the lucky one in that this is the second husband who has had a full blown affair.

I got over my first husband a lot easier in that I didn’t find out about the affair until after we had separated as he had already ended the marriage. He really did love his affair partner and they are now married and have been together for over 10 years. I never had any bad feelings really about this one.

However, my second husband threw me this curve ball and I was shocked as hell. I honestly could not believe it. He was my safe rock!

I always find my therapy sessions quite helpful and I always feel positive when I leave but then I spiral again. i just don’t know how to accept the fact he disregarded me so easily. But like you I think everything else is great (now) - we are good friends, have great sex, are raising two great kids (one of which is from my first marriage), run a successful house hold. Why can’t i forgive this one affair?

You are not going crazy, I have had the same thoughts in different periods as well. Over the months I have swung between 'maybe it's not so bad' and 'this is unforgivable and he is rotten to the core' constantly. I think it's perfectly normal.

When I am in my 'maybe it's not so bad, why am I making such a big deal of it' periods I tend to try to minimise the A in my mind, for myself. My mind goes something like this: 'they never met outside the workplace, he never promised her anything (I've read their entire conversations so I know the facts, good AND horrible), he tried to end it several times (also this verified in their texts), they never had intercourse it was 'only' one BJ and a couple of makeout sessions, he made it clear he was not willing to leave me, she was the pursuer (again texts verify this but do in NO way excuse him in the least), we were really struggling and had been in MC for over a year and were making zero progress at the time the A started, I was thinking about leaving him because we were so miserable, he felt I hated him and I did at times act as if I did so who can blame him, statistically most long relationships have some sort of infidelity in them anyway why would I be the exception, who knows if I had withstood temptation if pursued in a vulnerable period of my life like that?' etc etc etc. You get the idea. Minimising and denying, but also desperately looking for positives in a shit show.

Then, like now, when I am int the 'utter disgust, this is unredeemable, unforgivable character-flaw shit phase' I think: 'he is rotten to the core, there is no coming back from this, I can not survive another day of knowing he did this to us, he destroyed our entire lives, I am never going to be myself again D or R, this is the most hurtful thing one could ever do to a spouse, those who know will probably lose their respect for me for being weak and staying, I can never look at him without disgust again, I will never be able to let my guard down even a little, I will never be happy to the core again, our kids will be scarred for life etc etc. Any bad ugly thought you can imagine just floods me all day at the moment.

I think the 'it's not so bad' phases are a desperate try to give ourselves a break? fro all the pain, the hurt, the anguish and the feeling of this not being survivable. So in order to let ourselves have a break from those feelings a while we go to that. I'm hoping I will at some point lad somewhere in between these two extremes.

Groot I always think that with your posts how similar we are thinking lately!!

I think that’s the thing, part of me hates him and probably always will - how can I ever be truly happy again with someone who has caused me such emotional distress. I feel like an abuse victim staying with their absuer. I can’t bring myself to have the difficult conversations or to leave but if I stay I need to move forward and have a fulfilling new life and make a family. We’re just in limo purgatory right now and some how I’ve let this relationship plod on for 12 years without moving forward (not knowing his part of that was due to his affair) I don’t want to do another 12 years without marriage and kids. But could I say yes to a proposal to someone who murdered my heart? I don’t think that’s healthy but then why can’t I leave!!

This is where the overthinking comes in and do we all rug sweep and just get on with it if everyone cheats anyway?

I think that’s interesting re once a cheater always a cheater …. Technically yes they’ll always be a cheater in that relationship but I don’t think it means cheat once cheat again necessarily.

I like what heartbroken has put ‘once a cheater now I know what you’re capable of’

Truth Set Me Free - I agree I definitely feel like I’m very unhealed! I don’t even know how to do that or what I should be doing to heal! I’ve got my IC and I’ve started taking up some activities like sport etc without him and doing things with friends rather than doing everything with him. I desperately want to be ok and gain clarity on what it is I actually want to do.

Hell Is Not Half Full - honestly when my story is written in black and white I’m like girl what are you still doing there! No one deserves your time again after doing that to you. I always think second chances mean in the same relationship as why should I have to suffer twice (cheating and then breaking up) but I like your comment below:

"Also, redemption isn’t about salvation of the relationship. It doesn’t matter if he actually changes and truly becomes a safe and loving partner. It’s ok to say, good for you, I forgive you and be your best, just not with me."

House Of Plane - that’s the thing if there was no stigma I still don’t know what I’d want to do. Probably stay but I feel like I am doing myself a disservice by staying with someone who was capable of treating me that way.

Heartbroken Wife - that’s the core wound isn’t it that our naivety and blissful view on love has been taken away. I hope us newbies gain our clarity and happiness back soon! I’m so sick of feeling like this!

Ha Webbit is that me a bit of both crazy and in denial, or you? 🤣🤪 probably all of us really! Lol

Misery - do you know it’s also not just other people (although I’m very lucky my friends and family are being supportive in my choices) but it’s more losing respect for myself as well. Staying is tolerating that behaviour. They know we aren’t going to leave and they sigh with relief that phew there is no consequences to their shitty and abusive behaviour.

Sometimes I wish I didn’t exist so I wouldn’t have to deal with the endless thought spirals and unrelenting pain of this trauma.

If I stay I have to accept what’s happened and accept that I’ll never be fully happy as I’ll always be devastated at what he’s done. Although maybe it will be dimmed by having kids and moving on.

And if I leave I might be more devastated at not being together and I’ll be lonely and won’t find anyone else worthy of marriage or kids.

😂😂😂. It definitely me 😂😂😂

He’s already proven he isn’t worthy of marriage or kids. At least not right now. Throwing kids into the mix will not heal you or make the relationship suddenly better. I have 5 kids, and at the time my WW and I were really strong and in a good place. It was still really tough getting through it.

Don’t let fear of being alone stop you from doing what is best for you. I can almost guarantee that if you actually let yourself be alone without fear or having your betrayer in your life you will start to feel better.

I am in R, but i wouldn’t have been if I hadn’t been able to get some time away from my WW. I took about 3 months of being away and low contact. I will admit I had an advantage because I was able to do so because I took a temporary away position for my job. Still one of the best decisions I’ve made. I was able to be alone.

Key here though is I was only alone relationship wise. I still hung out with friends and made many new ones. Went out and had fun, did things for myself. Lots of long solo hikes, things like that.

Once you realize that you are going to be ok alone, it’s liberating.

Just to add a different perspective--

A ONS with a random while drunk and coming clean is different than a LTA with someone close to your family.

Every part of a marriage is stolen from the BS and given to AP (and more in most cases). There is no M, it is a parent child relationship, one gives the other takes. I am not sure Multiple Personality Disorder is fixable with renewed commitment to one personality. I am beginning to believe you can forgive the cheating (stop feeling the desire to get even), but I don’t think I am capable of love again.

Funny how my WW has trashed MY integrity too. I now lie to my kids everyday, family and friends that don’t know and now my life is a web of protective and ineffective deceit.

Maybe I can love again someday, but it will be after D and no time soon.

I would give yourself a timeline on how you feel. If your feelings aren't getting better about him or he relapses in wayward thinking you can always leave. It takes 2-5 years to heal from this and my personal opinion is it takes about 5-7 to start to feel better whether it's R or D. By the time I left my M I had no feelings of love or respect for my xWS so it made it easier to leave. It was hard as far as breaking up the family and my kids struggled a bit after I left but are doing great now and have adjusted.

Having kids with ANYONE adds a huge amount of stress to a relationship infidelity or not so you would need to be rock solid with him before doing that.

Meeting someone new does give you a fresh slate. It has for me with my new boyfriend of 2 years and I have no issues trusting him. If I were still with my xWS I still would not trust him.

"once a cheater always a cheater" my therapist put it this way... past behavior is a good prediction of future behavior. Not saying it will happen, but if it does it should not come as a surprise.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 8:06 PM, Friday, July 5th]