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If it's any help Ink, when I Made my decision, I knew it was the right one for me. That didn't make it any less hard. It has even my interactions with my EXWW post S/D that have shown me that despite any misgivings, I did make the right decision.

Does that mean life is great for me now? No, but it is authentic and although I suffer sadness and loneliness from time to time,there is an undercurrent of peace that was ottheir in my M post Dday. For me, R was just never a viable option, as my WW would have had to literally become a totally different person. She was ever built for relationships, let alone the work true R would have entailed.

Choose your authentic path and walk it with honour and dignity...

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 5:06 AM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

IH, I haven't read every entry in your saga. Did you ever list specifics you needed for her to heal you in the past? She may be the type of person that needs to be led by the hand. I am big pro divorce proponent and think it is the best way when cheating is involved. This is coming from a former cheater pointing finger at myself.

BUT, no one will look down on you if you want to give it more time or another chance. Do what you say in your last post and specifically list what you need/want from her to try to heal. I hope everything works out for you and your family in the long road ahead.

[This message edited by atomic_mess at 5:19 AM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

Me intentionally acting to disassemble our family, taking away my children’s home, while the woman that I have loved for 20 years, and still love, painfully weeps in front of me.

You seem to be attributing the guilt to the wrong party.

It was your WW that had made the decision to cause the situation to come to this, and she is still making those decisions by not understanding the havoc she has caused in the family unit.

You have been the one trying to hold everyone together, and it was a Sisyphean task, as there was one in that group that did not want to be together, did not want to help you hold everyone together.

If anything, you are just bringing to a logical conclusion what your WW started. What has she done to really try and help rebuild? What has she done to really make herself safe for you and your kids?

Add to that that I think there is some kind of trauma induced illness here in her and the pity that injects, this is going to rip my heart apart.

If there is any kind of trauma/illness, it was of her own doing. She had chosen to not accept the damage she had done, and so has gotten herself into her current state of mind, and she is not fighting to get out of that state of mind. She might feel comfort in staying there, like a child that puts their fingers into their ears, closes their eyes, and starts muttering to themselves to avoid reality.

Add to that that I think there is some kind of trauma induced illness here in her and the pity that injects, this is going to rip my heart apart.

This right here. And how hiking out is describing how your wife may be reacting is an exact description of my ww. I understand the desire to continue to try. Like you Ink, I love my wife, I can see she's in pain, but she can't figure out how to heal herself so she reverts to her old coping mechanisms by rugsweeping. I can't live like that any longer, but the desire to help her heal overwhelms me to continue trying to fix us/her. It's a hellish place to live as sometimes the torment and frustration from it all is is emotionally painful and draining. I feel like since I can't help her heal that I've let her down when in actuality, it's the reverse case. Your journey has really opened my eyes to what I've been going through and while it is painful for all of us, I thank you for that. I do now have more clarity in that I need to somehow move in one direction or another. I know what I want, it's right there in front of me, but I can't touch it, it's behind a glass panel that blocks me. I really just want you to know that I feel your pain and I support whatever it is that you need to do.

I don’t think you’re a champion waffler so much as a careful thinker who takes his commitments and decisions seriously. Ending a long marriage with kids in the picture is a big deal. If you need more time and thought and work to figure out if divorce is the best way forward, that’s ok. I do think having a clear list of requirements, with a specific time frame attached, is a good idea. I’m really sorry you’re going through all this.

[This message edited by Grieving at 12:05 PM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

Me intentionally acting to disassemble our family, taking away my children’s home, while the woman that I have loved for 20 years, and still love, painfully weeps in front of me.

You seem to be attributing the guilt to the wrong party.

It’s not a question of guilt, just clear action. It is being left to me to make the call and pull the plug, or not. She won’t do it. She would accept a zombie marriage at this point, and I have to not accept it or it will destroy me.

Today I understand the draw of an exit affair. Just do something so stupid and offensive that there is no coming back. Not saying I’m going to do it, but it sidesteps this cluster fuck I’m staring at right now.

I need to get my thoughts together. I couldn’t sleep last night until I finally collected the pieces back and remembered that this is hopeless and I want a divorce. But I have no doubt that fragile puzzle is going to break 100 more times. And all the while she just sits there in self pity.

You make the decision that you feel is best for YOU and your family, @InkHulk. Nobody else. If it helps, I support you as well.

That is funny and surprisingly meaningful.

I finally collected the pieces back and remembered that this is hopeless and I want a divorce. But I have no doubt that fragile puzzle is going to break 100 more times. And all the while she just sits there in self pity.

And this is where she will continue to sit.

Since you told her you want a divorce, she's not shown remorse. Perhaps regret, but not remorse. Anger at you, for being pissed she invited yet another man into your marriage. She's the victim. Always.

You said,yesterday,you were going to give her another chance, with certain guidelines to meet. Ink, you have said she is incapable of meeting the very basic of things that needed to be done. Giving her more stipulations won't make her suddenly capable.

The statement above sounds as if you've decided on divorce again.

That puzzle? It will continue to break. This is why I said no, when you spoke about IHS. She will continue to try to guilt you. Love bomb you. This is why you need to separate.

Oh, and asking you if you were sure, because of what it would supposedly do to the kids? She knew that would affect you. She knew.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:26 PM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

You said,yesterday,you were going to give her another chance, with certain guidelines to meet. Ink, you have said she is incapable of meeting the very basic of things that needed to be done. Giving her more stipulations won't make her suddenly capable.

The statement above sounds as if you've decided on divorce again.

My brain is back on fire, racing and struggling. Nothing makes sense with her, I cannot wrap my head around a consistent narrative of what drives her. So then all I’ve got is my pain as feedback, and I’m trying to balance that with the love I still have for her and the pain my kids are going to feel in all this. And even at this point there are no certainties. Superesse has a husband that hasn’t figured it out in decades. WOES says that she took a year and pending divorce to come around. Captain Rogers wife took something like five years to wake up. Sisoon’s wife was committed to R from day one. I could go on. But I don’t need to because all that is really saying is a lot of things could still happen. But what I am seeing in the present of my one and only life is a shit show that I don’t want. But it’s going to take a heart amputation to get out of it, and I’m scared and sad.

Your kids may surprise you. Yes, they will feel sad. However, they've been living in that house. They know mom and dad aren't happy. They feel the tension. Even if you've tried to hide it. Kids are smart. They know. They may feel a sense of relief.

Yes this member's spouse did this, and that. But they are not your wife. With all respect, several former waywards have been very vocal about what your wife may be feeling. And, they may be right. They also may be wrong. They don't know her. They may be wrong. Maybe she is struggling to get there. Maybe she's been complying,and hoping you will eventually get to a place that you let it go,so she can stop complying. We don't know. They don't know. You don't know. What you do know? After several months,more than a year, of her "trying" to do the necessary work to become a safe partner, she invited another cheating husband into your marriage. We can speculate on her reasons. But, the bottom line is..she did it because she wanted to. I mean,it would have been super easy not to. She deliberately chose to. This isn't a slip up of defensiveness, or anger. This was a deliberate choice involving another man. And then anger at you for being upset about it. Your response was 100% predictable, and it was 100% preventable.

What you do know..she's been showing she is incapable of doing the work. Her very deliberate choice to contact car guy is a result of that. If she continues to be incapable, there will be more car guys. Only, she now knows exactly how you will respond, and the next time, she won't tell you about him.

It's said here,over and over, a ws must do the work to become a safe partner. If she is incapable, she remains a ws. Which places you in the position of BH. Your goal is to get out of infidelity.

The fws here have done that work. They are not your wife. And your wife is not them.

Could she eventually get it? Yes. Of course. But only if she wants to. Wanting to reconcile, and actually doing the work, are 2 different things.

It's really painful when we realize our ws are incapable. Hard decisions need to be made. It's super unfair. Your mental well being is important. You need to take care of yourself and the kids.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:02 PM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

Your brain is on fire because this isn't what you want and you're checking every angle. I don't know what your Myers-Briggs type is, but I'd bet my next paycheck it ends with a P. I'm also a P. We're often more comfortable with open-ended options than we are with a decision. And sometimes we have to force a decision for our own good.

To gain clarity, try responding to all the thoughts and feelings flying at you with something like this: "Yeah, okay, but it's time to get out of infidelity."

I'm so sad. This isn't what I wanted. ~ Yeah, I know, it hurts like hell, but it's time to get out of infidelity.

I hate the way this is going to affect the kids. ~ I know, it sucks, but it's time to get out of infidelity. And I'll be a more peaceful father once I'm free of it.

She's so sad. I hate seeing her cry. ~ It's time to get out of infidelity and she just can't do it. (Also, is she manipulating me?)

What if I set solid boundaries and issue an ultimatum? ~ I can do that, and simultaneously take steps to get out of infidelity. It's time.

I'm a firm believer in taking care of yourself first and then everything else will fall into place.

Whatever you decide, IH, you have my support.

Whatever you decide, IH, you have my support.

This.

If you want to continue to attempt reconciliation, we will fight that battle with you.

If you decide it's divorce, we will (figuratively) hold your hand through it.

If you decide to stay in limbo..we will sit with you.

But we all want you out of infidelity, and at peace.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:34 PM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

Ink, it is hard to make sense of why disordered people behave the way they do. Hurt people hurt people, and there is no fairness in the process.

At the risk of triggering your sympathy towards her, her head is likely a mess. She is like the mouse that learns it can press a button to get food. Then when the button no longer releases food, rather than taking a different approach, it increases it's urgency in pressing said button. These tools she uses have likely been her cope for much of her life. Because those tools are no longer working, she FEELS like the victim, therefore she is the victim...at least in her world.

What does it mean? It means she does not understand how to think about thinking. In other words, she is moving and behaving without understanding why. This is not uncommon with trauma victims and the disordered. And given her level of dysfunction, it will do you no good to extend her your empathy because she will use it...not maliciously...or even deliberately...but because that is another one of the aforementioned buttons that she has pressed with results that help soothe her, likely at the expense of others.

Brother, between your continued want to get her to "get it", and her dysfunction, I can't see any possible way an IHS can work. Obviously I could be wrong, but I suspect you believe the same, but are trying your best to convince yourself otherwise.

Protect yourself and your children. That must be at the top of your priority list. How it impacts her has to be disregarded, as difficult as that may be for your empathetic side. She has chosen this path through her actions, and one of the most loving things we can do for people it to love them enough to allow them to fail.

Take care, brother.

Ink, I mentioned in an earlier text that I didn’t feel like I knew your wife based on your text here. Then you said you heard sisson and was going to give her a list of requirements to keep trying? Now as gently as I can say this let me add, requirements should of been a very long time ago and then communication from back and forth between the two of you discussing requirements as needed to stay the course. You never discussed here any of those conversations. Is that because you were not comfortable discussing or is it because they did not occur. I don’t recall, have you and you wife seen a therapist together.

As a culture we value decisiveness too highly. Too often people make sub-optimal decisions because they fire before they taken aim and made themself ready.

Some decisions need to be made quickly. Some decisions are better made quickly, because all options are approximately equally (un)satisfactory, and it's counter-productive to agonize over the decision - but if one chooses to agonize, little is lost by delaying the decision (and sometimes a lot is gained). Some decisions simply don't need a quick decision.

Some decisions just get better the longer you take to make them. You're making decisions that will profoundly effect your life and the lives of your kids for, probably, decades.

The days of not knowing which path seems best may be excruciating, But what are days when compared to decades?

*****

So is taking 'too much' time really the problem? What do you have to do to identify and resolve other issues that may be lurking behind time?

If time pressure is the real problem, removing it is the quickest way to get where you want to be, IMO.

Also, beating yourself up never helps.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:07 PM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

That is funny and surprisingly meaningful.

Well, you do strike me as the kind of person who does not know when to quit. There was a post on page 2 saying that you wanted to "stay in Limbo"--it was from Bigger I believe. I definitely do NOT think you want to stay in Limbo, I do believe that instead, you are so afraid of D that the Limbo you have been in somehow seemed a lot less scary. And so you have been maintaining it for quite a while, coming on here and, several times over the past year, saying that *this time* your WW has turned a corner when going by your own posts she clearly has not. In the process you seem to have been hoping against all hope that your WW will truly wake up.

Anyway after all these threads I don't think there is any coaxing you into D even though it is clearly the right decision. (And if you wait too long I'm not positive it will even be a decision you will get to make anymore. Frankly it sounds that your WW is checking out too, seeking out that mechanic dude.) That your WW has not been a good wife for you and just does not seem to really want to be a good wife to you (as she was an ardent lover to her AP) that is a truth that may need to sink even deeper into your bones, before you actually will be ready to pull the trigger.

And while this may be some codependence on your part, I can imagine that a lot of this also is for your kids, and going through the logistics of what D is going to entail, with the move they will have to make and everything, makes it all hit home hard, and does have you desperate for that one last shred of hope. Maybe even most of this is coming from your love and concern for your kids. You aren't a weak dude or anything, not by any means. I do think your love for your kids is getting you to make some pretty dire sacrifices, such as staying married to your toxic WW. Even though your kids really will be OK if you D.

Anyway this was a very long-winded way of saying that I get this is extremely complicated. ETA: And that if you still aren't yet ready to pull the plug and go for D, then you aren't yet ready. I do suspect continuing events will push you to make a decision soon, however.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:03 PM, Tuesday, April 2nd]

Agree with far-side, I will add a small part here. She is panicking and not making sense, you are panicking back and in pain but making sense. I have some sense that in this heightened situation you are probably doing the best both of you can in these stressful moments. Even if some of her responses are disappointing, I think you understand this is who she is. She is not purposefully being malicious, but it’s still having the same effect on you.

I wish I had some wisdom. I agree with sisoon, bearing yourself up and putting some sort of time limit is likely adding to your emotions right now. Can you guys get an IC appt? I think you could both benefit from some help coping above and beyond what strangers on the internet can provide.

Ink, people don’t change their basic personalities. That is why no diagnosis is made until age 18. There was a discussion on another site about family members and teachers recognizing serious, dangerous behaviors in children and knew what was coming. We are a combination of genetics and the way we are raised. Whatever you are hoping for should be based on this reality. Your wife would have to do intense therapy, very intense, to try to literally change her personality.

However, people do fall prey to desires that surprise them. This affair sounds like a soap opera except it has left you bleeding and her devastated at her own actions. I will be the outlier here and tell you to slow down. You are waffling because you love your wife and you loved the marriage you had in the past. You want revenge. That is basic to humans. The problem is you can’t do enough things to hurt her as badly as she has hurt you. If you ever want R you will have to figure out a way to get past that. If you can’t both of you would live in hell. If you know you can’t, or don’t think you can, slow down. Your timeline is yours, not ours nor your wife’s.

You are waffling because you love your wife and you loved the marriage you had in the past.

I think at this point I’m more reacting to fear. To make a Lord of the Rings reference, I’m like Gandalf who did everything he could to avoid going thru the mines. Only after every other option was thwarted did he go. And even then he wanted to turn around but the entrance was destroyed, giving no option but to walk the path he feared most. Which of course led to his death

(And I swear OG, if you bring up something like he had to fall first before he came back his true self, I will not talk to you for at least 3 hours )

You want revenge.

I honestly don’t. I want life, and love, and honesty and faithfulness and healing. I give up all rights to revenge, that has nothing to do with this.

Can you guys get an IC appt?

Had IC yesterday morning, have an individual session with MC on Thursday. Can only fit in so much therapy, have a divorce to fund and all and only so many hours in the week.