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It's been a long, long time since original D-day, but it occurs to me that it was right around Valentines Day... Many, many years ago. But I'm so old that the term "VD" has quite another meaning for me. One that fits very, very well with infidelity..

Gointomakeit

Sadly, you are about as close as they come for poster-boy for why it’s never a good idea to "stay for the kids" and think that’s enough…
Kids are a great reason to give reconciling a good shot. But if after a reasonable time you are still miserable then you move on. Something that you and your wife didn’t do…

You do have options. Of course there are the obvious options like divorce, or to accept your misery and remain in your private hell.
But there are other options…
Both for you and for her. Your options are change or stagnatation.
Her options are change or… change but alone.

Like you state she refuses therapy.
Like you could insist that the two of you clarify the infidelity issues. That you do so with a professional who can then guide you to IC (either the same or separate) and MC (either the same as IC or separate – let the professionals decide). You could explain your misery, and that THIS is what you would want to do, but if she refuses then your second-best option is to cut your losses and divorce. That this would give you the emotional detachment you need to find happiness.

Going – this has reached a stage where you two with no help won’t cut it. You NEED therapy – as does she. You NEED professional guidance on how to improve your marriage and/or how to accept it’s demise.

Soulmates? I strongly believe in soulmates. The moment I saw my wife I knew she was the one I was looking for. We were discussing it a couple of days ago… Saw her and thought "I need to get to know this woman". I’m not that shallow that looks alone get me, but there was an aurora around her that made me realize my life would be better if I got to know her. Turns out I was correct – albeit this isn’t the ex fiancé that cheated on me.

got the "I hope OM doesn’t think I betrayed him" on Feb 13,

What does this mean Goingtomakeit?

Just for clarification on the soul mate thing…

When I first saw my husband my very first though was "he is the kind of man to marry, a good family man" it was a fleeting thought and we didn’t get together for about five more years. We had become better friends in that year before we started dating and I kept telling my mom he is teaching me the kind of man I need to marry. She said "why don’t you go after the teacher then?" There really wasn’t any reason other than I was 23 and he was 33, divorced with two little girls. I just hadn’t considered it and thought she was crazy.

What eventually did us in is we had a discernible sexual chemistry that I have never had with anyone before. That is truly something amazing that exists to this very day.

So I am not saying that there aren’t things that feel kismet, or special, or whatever you want to label it.

But since the affairs (mine, then his) I have realized that I don’t need it to be something that I imagine to be spiritually ordained or pre-arranged. People mistake finding their soul mate all the time, in fact look at how many say that about their AP. I find it to be a limiting belief that people have that make them feel stuck with the person. The narratives we tell ourselves are powerful.

"We had something special that we can never have again" or "there is no one else out there that I would be as happy with". I think these are fear based statements.

Would it be easy to date again? Hell no. I think I would rather stick a fork in my eye. But are other special connections possible? Yes. I know there are. My dear mother in law lost her husband at 60. She had two really big and great loves after that before she passed at 85. I think her last love of 15 years in many ways was her best love, at least since being a young 16 year old girl when she married my husbands father (I never met him he died right before we become close)

Anyway, all this to say, if you don’t feel you can have happiness in this marriage (and with a spouse that doesn’t want to be introspective or help you in any way), she is not the only person you can feel that soul mate connection with. I just don’t think it’s a belief that serves anyone very well.

I want to be with my husband for the rest of my life. But if that isn’t in the cards, I can have a full life after that. There would be a period of grieving of course, and he has my whole heart as long as he is here and wants it. But there is a happy life available to me as long as I can breathe.

I can understand a family to raise, and there are always logistics that might make being married easier. I just find gritting your teeth and making it is so detrimental to your mental health. And honestly what happens if she does it again? Someone who isn’t introspective, curious enough to seek professional help or read a book or something, is someone who hasn’t made any changes since the last date she decided to cheat. I don’t blame you for not wanting to celebrate Valentine’s Day, you are doing enough as it is.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:34 PM, Tuesday, February 13th]

Thanks to bigger and Hiking out.

To clarify a couple of things-I am in therapy-been going since May. Many positive points have come out for me. I carried the shame of the A for 24 years, never discussed it with anyone after the first year. I realize this is not my shame, and I refuse to carry it. I really don’t hate OM. I never met him, and only saw one picture. BTW-I was way better looking than him. I hated him for years, but all that is really gone, and probably has been for a long time. He did not betray me, she did. I was bullied in HS, pretty severely. I just buried that pain, never dealt with it-never told anyone what I went through. (Yea, I see the pattern too). I have now dealt with my childhood trauma, and my adult trauma of the A. I was really depressed, fat, and just done-I was stuck in 1999, and never moved forward. Today, I am no longer depressed, lost 25 lbs, I have said goodbye to my old marriage. I am happier that I have been in years.

All that has been positive.

What "I hope OM doesn’t think I betrayed him" means us as I was only 2 weeks into this nightmare, I caught them emailing. I called the OBS, and told her. FWW (could she even be called F then) was mad I contacted OBS, and told her of the NC violation. She told me in that one statement I was nothing, and she was worried about what he would think.

Hiking out-yes, what you said about "I will never find another "-rings so true with me. I am scared-scared that I can never have what I had with her with anyone. I may be selling my self short, but man, what I had with her pre A was amazing. I know there are amazing people out there, and some success stories on this board about love the second time around and maybe this is the direction I am heading. The MIL being 60 helps a lot -that is close to my age.

Bigger-you are so helpful to so many guys on this board. I lurk on some threads, and I love the "bigger speech’s" you give. I don’t regret being with my boys every night and every morning. I gave them every shot at a successful life. It was unfair I had to choose their happiness as opposed to mine-and I resented her for that for years. ( I am not being defensive, or saying this is what every BH should do, but it was my choice, and I accept being not happy in the marriage has to do with my choice). As for wife-I am almost to the point of begging her to go to counseling. I am getting my IC to give some referrals. I do think if she continues to refuse counseling, I will have to give up on the marriage. This is really hard to think about. I want her to be healthy and healthy unless she deals with what she did, she can’t be healthy. I have forgiven so much, and showed her so much grace. Maybe she doesn’t know that, and I have to make sure she does before I give up. I still love her, and I know a lot of people on this board had to walk away from people they love because it was hopeless. I don’t want to be one of them, I want a happy ending. But being realistic, I know I may not get one.

Fuck VD

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 5:18 AM, Wednesday, February 14th]

I also had a Super Bowl DDay and we hashed it out on Valentine’s Day. That was 3 years ago. He asked for another chance on VD. I should have said NO but did it for the adult kids. I can’t bring myself to buy anything for VD because it feels like a second anniversary within the year. My first DDay was right on our anniversary . I feel bad for my husband because he has been trying to make it up to me in R. But the triggers are a powerful hold on me. I still want him to feel that our marriage is not the same after 4 years of his phone EA sexting affairs. Am I vindictive? No, this just feels right just now. Not celebrating VD

Maybe she doesn’t know that, and I have to make sure she does before I give up.

Absolutely. You should tell her everything. Maybe not today, go in and hate today. But soon. I don’t think it’s possible for a ws to know the bs’s full pain but it is up to them to be curious about it and try and understand and be there in it with you. Otherwise, there is nothing lonelier in the world than to carry this alone. It will most certainly destroy what’s left of that live in your heart. Best wishes to you.

I feel that. I no longer celebrate VD. 2/14 is LTAP birthday. That day is dead to me. WH [sadly] understands and respects this.

I logged in today hoping for some venting, and voila, I have found it! WS wished me a happy v-day and said "I love you" this morning right after I got up, and I nearly bit his head off with my "yeah, right," response. We never celebrated v-day. We always agreed it was a made-up holiday and I used to say that every day is a Valentine's Day if you're in a good relationship. I loved celebrating our wedding anniversary, though, and so of course dday was 3 days after our 25th, because he didn't even kiss me that day and it too much of a nightmare.

He is trying so hard now (at last) and gave me a sad panda face plus a "did I say something wrong" this morning. I replied that we never wished each other "happy v-day" before so why start now.

To pour acid on the wound, I am seeing a specialist this afternoon about the atrophy of my lady parts due his sexual neglect over the past 3 years. Fuck. Valentine's. Day.

"To pour acid on the wound, I am seeing a specialist this afternoon about the atrophy of my lady parts due his sexual neglect over the past 3 years. Fuck. Valentine's. Day"

I am so sorry you are going through this.

So sorry for so many hurting people because of infidelity.

I wish everyone peace and healing. My betrayal was brutal so I can empathize with what people are sharing.

WS wished me a happy v-day and said "I love you" this morning right after I got up, and I nearly bit his head off with my "yeah, right," response.

I understand this sentiment so much, even though I have man parts. One of the things I've learned over the years is that if I want "my parts" tended to, it's best to NOT bite my partner's head off.

Other than that, yeah, Fuck Off Valentines Day.

my $0.02

Bigger:

Kids are a great reason to give reconciling a good shot. But if after a reasonable time you are still miserable then you move on. Something that you and your wife didn’t do…

My "parents" (egg-doner/sperm-doner) could have educated alley cats.

I lived through that for 16 years -

Took me another 30 to figure out (ya, I'm slow) to figure out my attitude was affected by my history.

NEVER "Stay for the KIDS" - it is delusional thinking

All you do if Eff them up on what a good family should be.

Valentines - isn't a trigger for me - other than years later (after her experiences) that I unloaded and figuratively put the loaded pistol to her head and said: "I want the truth" -

Now? No holds barred, muff up again and I will walk out of your life. My patience has ended.

IRL - bought her Roses and Chocolate (damn stuff is getting $$) - I "forgive" - forget? either Alzheimer or Grim Reaper will fix

ymmv

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 12:46 AM, Thursday, February 15th]

Just an update :

My therapist suggested I talk to wife. I invited her to go the therapy with me (MC). She said no.

BUT, I was able to ask questions about A. Due to the length of time, she could not remember some of the things, some of the mean things she said to me all those years ago when I was just trying to put one foot in front of the other.

I told her for several years, I just wanted to die. Suicide was out of the question, but I just hoped something would take me out. She said she felt the same way, she just wanted to die. I also told her I detached from her, and did not love her many years. I did not hate her, just really felt nothing one way or another.

I told her I need empathy, not sympathy. She is very low in this department. She did hear me out, not sure what she felt.

However, 2 days later, I was heading for the gym, and said I love you as I grabbed my bag. She said "do you really?" I put my bag down down and hugged her (more like held her). I told her I do love her, which is 100% true.

I think I must have hit a nerve with my talk. I think I hurt her (not my intention-I am way beyond revenge at this point.)

The disappointing thing was I asked did she ever contact him again, or he contact her. She said no. However, original MC said he told her she had to give him up, regardless of how she felt about about him, or there could be violence. She also said "MC said I had to give him up, and I have". I confronted MC about this, saying I felt there must have been a final contract between the two of them (phone call or email), where they said goodbye. MC would not confirm or deny this. But, I trust my gut, and I think there was, and ergo, she is still lying. I don’t really care about the details of the final goodbye, but if she is still lying, that means trust between us is impossible.

I am still trying to get her into therapy. For reference, her parents were both psychologists, and after the way they skewed up their marriage and their children, I understand her distrust of the profession.

I know I can’t get her to go unless she wants to, but I am still working on it. I don’t want to hurt her. I really don’t have revenge left I’m my heart. I do love her, not like before the A, but I love her a lot.

The answer to the next question is-yes, I am strong enough today to let her go if necessary. 2 reasons-I deserve a good relationship for the time I have left on this earth. Some of you guys said there are great partners out there. Second, she deserves a good relationship as well. If I am not the one, then I will never make her happy, and both will be frustrated. I believe she needs deep work on herself, or she can never find happiness in a relationship. I am working on myself, so I can find happiness.

Anyway, this is where I am.

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 4:36 AM, Monday, March 4th]

I know I can’t get her to go unless she wants to, but I am still working on it. I don’t want to hurt her. I really don’t have revenge left I’m my heart.

Have you ever read this proverb on here? "Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm". Expecting her to start IC is not "revenge" nor "punishment". It’s called a boundary, and one this forum recommends always for the WS to dig into their "whys". If no "why" is determined, what’s to stop it from happening again? No wonder you don’t feel healed with her attitude like this - and one that you tolerate.

The answer to the next question is-yes, I am strong enough today to let her go if necessary.

Then the answer is simple: "Wife, I know you hate counseling but for this M to continue, I need you to choose to go. If you choose not to, I respect that, and trust you will also respect my choice to D".

[This message edited by gr8ful at 4:07 PM, Monday, March 4th]