SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Been a bit since I posted here. Six months maybe? I thought I'd write an update. Not really sure why it occurred to me to do so. I think I might be in a phase I've heard called "momentum" where things have improved because of the work done in reconciliation but you don't fully trust it and you sometimes feel like you're waiting for something bad to happen.

My profile has a timeline of significant events (AKA mostly the worst events of my life). Short version is D-Day in April 2023 followed by false reconciliation after false reconciliation; it nearly broke me but I'm still here.

In early July I got as close to filing for divorce as I had since the start of this mess. I was so dispirited flying home. I knew we weren't in a great place when I left but that was worse that I could have imagined. I was so brazen, too. She was sharing her real time location with me so she was just counting on me not looking, I guess.

July 30th was the last time I found out WW was lying about continued contact with AP. It was also when she finally opened up about how scared she was that I was going to leave her and she'd be alone. September was when I learned about dopamine and its relationship to addiction and was able to connect that with my WW's behavior to that point. None of that excuses what she'd done but it did help me understand it and understanding led to empathy.

So August and September was really a turning point for us. When her AP messaged her through LinkedIn in September (yes she should have told me about it and no she shouldn't have responded to tell him to stop) she said that it wasn't a good feeling to hear from him; it just made her sad. That tracks with the normal resetting of dopamine levels and learned triggers.

Since then things have mostly been good. I think our biggest challenge had been her rug-sweeping and her tendency when I was upset to get defensive and bothered that I wasn't "over it." We had something of a breakthrough on that front last month. It seemed like I was finally able to get her to understand what she was doing and what I was hearing. When I had a bit of breakdown last Tuesday she didn't fall back on those old tendencies and was really supportive.

I still worry about hysterical bonding sometimes. I think there was some of that before but what we have now lacks the "hysterical" part. There isn't the same sense of urgency that I can see in retrospect in previous months. Sometimes life gets in the way and we don't have sex for a few days. When we do have sex it's better than at any other time in our lives. I've learned to slow down and she's become comfortable telling me what she wants.

I also sometimes worry that she's just making the best out of a bad situation. Heck, I sometimes worry that I'm just making the best out of a bad situation. Our daughter is still struggling with her own mental health. There were some improvements after a brief inpatient stay last August but things got worse at the end of the year. We pulled her out of school and put her into a day hospital and this week she's stepped down to an intensive outpatient program. In early January we were having an argument and WW said "it's not like either of us have anywhere else to go," meaning that we wouldn't divorce while our daughter was not coping with her depression and anxiety well. When I asked about it the next day she walked it back and apologized for having said it but I can't help feeling like a comment like that doesn't come from nowhere.

Anyway, so that's me. How are you doing?

Making the best of a bad situation ... IMO, that's all we can do. The question is: how do you define 'the best of a bad situation'?

One option is to decide that life sucks and the best we can do is to mope through a life without joy. Another option is to decide to make the most joyful life possible, even though life usually includes moments of grief, fear, anger, and shame as well as moments of joy. It looks like you chose the 2nd option, and I'm happy for you.

I'm really sorry your daughter is struggling. One of the worst things life offers, IMO, is the inability to fix the world for a struggling child. I hope she heals.

I see some similarities in our situations. Our daughter (teenager) is also struggling with mental health right now (she also doesn't know about the affair or its fallout), and that's the biggest reason I haven't walked way from my WS. We also went through a period of false R, but he was 2.5 years into his affair by the time I found out, so he was less limerant and we only went through one round of it. He massively trickled truthed, though, 4ddays in total - including a disclosure about an EA 10 years ago on dday4 - so I am very much in "ride it out until the teen is in a better place" mode. We have not had much in the way of "bonding," hysterical or otherwise, and he took so long getting his head out of his ass that I've pretty much detached. 3 years of sexual and emotional neglect will do that, I guess. I can feel compassion, pity, and familial love for him, but I have no real desire to be married to him the way I used to.

So that's where I'm at. I often feel like I'm turning into one of those people who's going to hit him with "surprise, I'ave hated the last 5 years with you" if/when I leave him in a few years. We did MC for a while, but I stopped seeing the point of it when my heart really is done with all of this. I guess I'm in the plain of lethal flatness? I'm allowing that he might truly change into a less impulsive, less self-centered person, but I don't give him great odds.

As for making the best of a bad situation, that is 100% what I am doing, and I am not going to be ashamed of it. I became disabled about a year into his affair (before I knew about it), and for now, it helps to have his physical and financial support. I'm 50ish, and it's not going to be easy if I strike out on my own. We still have dinner every night as a family, WS and I discuss what's best for our child, we go on family vacations, etc. As for happiness, when I catch myself looking to him for that and getting sad about it, I acknowledge those feelings and then put them in the "don't give a crap" balloon and let them fly away. I really don't know how else to cope with the situation. All three of us (WS, kid, me) are in IC. That's gotta tell you something. That said, I *do* find happiness for myself and always have. I am learning to do more of that.

Hi, Sisoon. I like that perspective on "making the best out of a bad situation." Even if that's all either of us are doing it is at least good a lot of the time and not the worst way to spend the next year or five.

I acknowledge those feelings and then put them in the "don't give a crap" balloon and let them fly away.

That made me laugh! I actually did something similar today when I was wrestling with some thoughts and big emotions. I said out loud in the otherwise empty car, "Fuck it. And fuck you too." It was actually very cathartic. Obviously that's not going to work if I'm actually around other people but now I can fill up my own balloon and watch it fly away instead. So thank you for that.

Mr. Bob?

You are still very early in your path of "marriage with a wandering wife" - so make sure you always have your parachute strapped on properly - odds are you will need it.

Your wife shared the horizontal mambo with another and you have decided that is something you can live with?

I suggest you look into the "I can Relate" forum for posts on people who have experienced what you post.

I'm somewhat awed that many men can accept their wife's cheating as you post.
I keep thinking of a scene in the movie "The Graduate" and the line "just shaking hands"

I post as a warning that you have a memory for life and you must work very hard and long to put this experience in a place so that 10,20,30 years later the actions of your wife don't ruin your day.

-ask me how I know

Do you have a complete written timeline or is it still TT for you?

What books are you using/following for R?

Counseling of any kind?

I have seen you show up here, get bludgeoned with 2x4s then walk away. We all want the best for you.

Is there any real lasting indication things are changing or is it just "do your best and hope it works out"?

Hi, This0is0Fine!

Do you have a complete written timeline or is it still TT for you?

I wrote it myself with data I collected. What I know is awful enough that I stopped asking questions.

What books are you using/following for R?

We both read Healing from Infidelity by Deborah Weiner-Davis. To some extent, it's not even the actual infidelity that bothers me so much as the deceit and lack of empathy. We're working on that.

Counseling of any kind?

I was doing IC, she still is. I still see a psychiatric nurse practitioner to get Wellbutrin.

I have seen you show up here, get bludgeoned with 2x4s then walk away. We all want the best for you.

Oh, they were way more painful than 2x4s! Maybe 2x4s studded with nails. I recognize that I was being unreasonably stubborn last year. I'm glad I kept myself open to the possibility of reconciliation but I could have done that more safely for myself.

Is there any real lasting indication things are changing or is it just "do your best and hope it works out"?

It's funny (in a deeply unfunny way) but I would have answered that question with far more confidence if I'd gotten to it sooner after you posted. I had written a whole rant about what happened last Thursday night but it doesn't really matter. Suffice it to say, WW has shit she needs to work on.

I think she can be be very selfish, inconsiderate, and self-absorbed. But I can name three shitty things about myself, too. The question is, I think, whether the rest of our relationship makes up for it. I used to think so and I'm less sure now. It's up to her to prove it to me this year.

It's up to her to prove it to me this year.

And if she doesn’t? Have you placed firm boundaries in your mind? Do you have specific "metrics" you need to see from her by the end of the year? If not, why not?

Sounds like you are at least on the right track in terms of getting on the same page and learning tools to rebuild the marriage.

I think you have picked one of the few books I haven't read so I can't opine on that particular one. Hopefully it doesn't have any blame shifting in it, which is a common downfall.

I think based on your update your wife is still being too defensive about the A. "Get over it" is pretty much banned language in my relationship. I live with it and accept it as a part of martial history. I'm not over it. I don't bludgeon my wife with it. I don't bring it up out of the blue. But I'm certainly not over it.

I wrote it myself with data I collected. What I know is awful enough that I stopped asking questions.

From this statement alone, it seems like you're still doing the heavy lifting and serving as the engine that drives reconciliation... while your WW is simply along from the ride.

If I'm wrong, I would be interested to know what she's doing proactively to rebuild your trust and become a safe partner. IC alone doesn't count.

And if she doesn’t? Have you placed firm boundaries in your mind? Do you have specific "metrics" you need to see from her by the end of the year? If not, why not?

I'm not sure I need or even want metrics. I'm not putting her on a performance improvement plan at work. The only metric I care about is if I'm happy.

I think based on your update your wife is still being too defensive about the A. "Get over it" is pretty much banned language in my relationship. I live with it and accept it as a part of martial history. I'm not over it. I don't bludgeon my wife with it. I don't bring it up out of the blue. But I'm certainly not over it.

Yeah, we've had to have the conversation about "over it" a couple times but not since December. It sort of feels like I can still hear her saying it with other words, so I'd agree with the sentiment that her defensiveness is a symptom of wanting to rug sweep.

From this statement alone, it seems like you're still doing the heavy lifting and serving as the engine that drives reconciliation... while your WW is simply along from the ride.

I put that timeline together myself even before the first false R and I've added verified data to it. It's more a function of the rocky road to even really start R than anything to do with the current state of the R.

If I'm wrong, I would be interested to know what she's doing proactively to rebuild your trust and become a safe partner. IC alone doesn't count.

Despite what I said above, you're not wrong in general. She offers excuses, she's really stressed and having a hard time keeping up with the charting that she needs to do. But if it were a priority she'd figure out how to make time for it. This was, to some extent, the core of the argument we had last Thursday.

I think the really tough part about reconciliation for me is that I wanted it a lot and now that I've got it, it might not be enough anyway.

Your wife has remained married to you; that’s not the same as reconciling with you. If reconciliation was what she wanted, she would be putting in the work. I think she’s just hoping that you’ll be grateful that she’s stayed and eventually get over it.

What do you think would happen if you simply let go of the outcome and let your wife take the wheel?

Your wife has remained married to you; that’s not the same as reconciling with you.

That is a very good turn of phrase, Blue. It describes very well how this feels sometimes.

If reconciliation was what she wanted, she would be putting in the work. I think she’s just hoping that you’ll be grateful that she’s stayed and eventually get over it.

I have a tendency to write only about the bad stuff. To give her her due, there are times when she's doing it right but it tends to come the day after an argument and even then it doesn't always stick for very long. And like with "get over it," I'm not always sure that when it does stick it's not still bouncing around in her head unvoiced but still believed.

What do you think would happen if you simply let go of the outcome and let your wife take the wheel?

Let go of the outcome is something Tanner told me way back in the beginning and it's something I try to do. Here's the thing, though. By actively participating in this process I'm learning a lot about what I want, how to express it, and how to talk about not getting it. I'm learning a lot about how to be a good partner. I can use that whether it's with my WW or not. I think these are things I want to keep working on but I agree that there will have to a point where I am confident enough in my relationship skills that I can lean back and see what happens if I'm not pushing to make us better.

[This message edited by BobTheBuilder at 1:30 PM, Saturday, February 24th]

The thing about letting go of the outcome is that it isn't just a logical decision. It's something you'll only be able to arrive at once you are comfortable with any possible outcome.

I'm not sure I need or even want metrics. I'm not putting her on a performance improvement plan at work. The only metric I care about is if I'm happy.

IDK....

What do you want from your M? How will you know if you are or aren't getting what you want? Your posts express some unhappiness. How do you know you're unhappy?

You've got metrics, and you're using them, but not mindfully. Sometimes that's OK. At this point, though, I think you'd benefit from being more mindful about your home life.

What I know is awful enough that I stopped asking questions.

Gently, that looks like fear speaking. If so, what are you afraid of? How long do you think you can pretend your fear doesn't exist?

Obviously, I think it's best to confront/test fears about one's M as soon as possible. I could be wrong about that, but I fear letting other fears fester and cause real damage if I neglect them. I fear getting mugged, but I can do a lot to prevent that. If I feared something my is doing or has done, that's right in front of me, and I can't ignore it.

You are strong enough to know what your W did. You can overcome anything she did - if you know about it. But I believe an M is rich if the areas of privacy are minimized. I believe you're probably going to be happier knowing as much of the truths as your W remembers than you are now.

I have a tendency to write only about the bad stuff. To give her her due, there are times when she's doing it right but it tends to come the day after an argument and even then it doesn't always stick for very long. And like with "get over it," I'm not always sure that when it does stick it's not still bouncing around in her head unvoiced but still believed.

Look, I assume without being explicitly told that every cheating spouse on this site has positive qualities and occasionally "does things right." If she were 100% bad 100% of the time, you wouldn't have married her, let alone be doing everything in your power to keep her.

The fact that she behaves herself for a bit after an argument doesn't refute my point that's just trying to wait you out until you eventually decide to sweep her infidelities under the rug. She's already succeeded 90% of the way because you're no longer asking her questions. She knows that you will latch on to even the faintest glimmer of hope, and so she will do the absolute bare minimum that she can get away with at any given time and call it progress. I don't even think she's conscious of what she's doing because you've already firmly established yourself as the "fixer" in the relationship. She's just running on autopilot.

Going forward, the question you really need to ask yourself (and you don't need to answer it here) is this: Do you want to build new relationship with your wife? Or are you simply trying to stay married?

If you're simply trying to stay married, then congratulations, you've succeeded. She hasn't divorced you, and probably won't in the future... so long as she feels more comfortable staying than going and isn't promised greener pastures elsewhere.

But if you want a new relationship, then she needs to consistently work very hard over the course of several years. You need to continually advocate for yourself and your own needs, and hold her accountable for her actions (or lack thereof). And she needs to believe that you are willing to walk away if all she's offering is a warmed-over version of the status quo.

Outstanding post by BluerThanBlue!

Man, has this taken a turn for the worse since I first posted.

WW and I have always had separate finances. We would each have responsibility for some of our bills but have separate bank accounts and whatnot. She's a registered user on my everyday use credit card and of course if either of us has ever been short for a bill we move money between accounts but that's the extent of the crossover. She has just had the mortgage and auto insurance for the last few years.

She told me that she was coming up short now that she had to pay her student loans again and asked me to transfer $1500 and take over the auto insurance. I agreed to both but said that we should really go back over what all our bills were compared to income and rebudget because I felt like I was maybe overspending on hobbies and things not knowing that I needed to be more financially supportive.

Then I found out from a letter from GEICO that the monthly payment for our auto insurance was declined; she was billing it to a credit card so clearly it was maxed out. So that's bad. Then while I was doing the rebudgeting, I was looking through charges on that credit card for which she's an authorized user. She had charged my card twice for $200 each last month to her old business that she shuttered last year. What the actual fuck.

I took twenty-four hours to cool off and then confronted WW. I told her that I needed total financial transparency because we can't be partners if I can't trust her and my trust in her was already low before this. She refused. I asked her to think about if this was the hill she really wanted to die on. I already know what I'd find if I did look through her finances. She used at least one credit card to get probably thousands of dollars in cash advances to play slots. Probably during the affair because she and AP spent a good bit of time there and in the aftermath of D-Day because she was going there a lot to relieve stress and avoid me.

But even though I asked her to think about if this was the hill she'd die on, since then I think I've decided it's already dead. I don't really care if she does show me exactly how deep the hole is that she's dug, I'm not going to be able to trust her. I just need to see them now to decide how finances are going to work while we begin to untangle our lives.

((Big hug BobTheBuilder))

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Unfortunately, infidelity rarely ever happens in vacuum, as people are rarely reckless, dishonest, and duplicitous in only one aspect of their lives. Affairs and addictions usually go hand in hand as well.

This behavior is all part of an ongoing pattern with her. You think things are going well (at least enough to post a positive update) and then she suddenly rips the carpet out from right under you. You confront her and try to get her to be honest, but she immediately shuts down and ices you out.

As for next steps, I really advise you do the following:

(1) Make an appointment with a lawyer ASAP.

(2) Run a thorough credit check on yourself, your wife, and your daughter (the latter because it's very common for parents who are running up debts to take out new lines of credit in a child's name).

(3) Go through your accounts with a fine-tooth comb and look for any suspicious spending.

(4) Remove her as a registered user on any credit cards for which you are the primary account holder.

(5) Remove her as the beneficiary on your life insurance policy and contact the National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) for their Life Insurance Policy Locator Service to find out she's taken out any life insurance policies out on you.

#5 might seem ridiculous, and maybe I watch too much Dateline, but it's not terribly uncommon for cheaters who run up huge debts to decide that their BSs are worth more dead than alive, particularly if divorce is imminent.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:21 PM, Tuesday, February 27th]

Any updates, Bob?