SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have, to the best of my knowledge, never used the word conniving but that is the first thing I thought when reading through your post. She might have mouthed the words I do, but she has never been married to you except legally. You, with your decency, money, loyalty, was a sitting duck. I HATE this. I actually got nauseated reading it.

You want the marriage you thought you had. It would have to be with a different person because the one still in the house has been so disloyal to you she should not be given do overs.

Please see a dr about meds to help with anxiety and depression.

As soon as your wife (or mine or anyone else's wife) says the words "I want you to cum in my mouth before you fuck me" to another man, especially a married man who has his own wife, and especially to a man that she used to date and have sex with in the past, holy hell she is so far off the reservation that the existing marriage is over. That is an evident demonstration of complete and total lack of respect for you on all counts.

As soon as your wife (or mine or anyone else's wife) takes naked pictures of herself and sends those pictures to another man for his pleasure, especially a married man who has his own wife, and especially to a man that she used to date and have sex with, it is a betrayal in the worst way. Her marriage vows mean nothing. What marriage? She has no problem letting another man see what is rightfully only yours.

As soon as your wife (or mine or anyone else's wife) says the words "My heart hurts. He is the man I should have married. I will never love anyone as much as I love him." when referring to who she is fucking behind her husband's back, then how do you ever feel like you are her first choice? How do you not feel like she just used you for the meal ticket, but would rather be with him, at least for the wild and naughty and hot sex they were having? "That was hot, we should do that again next time."

Brother, we are here for you. And some of that being here for you is just to point out some of the obvious to make sure your love for her (or at least your perception of her) does not override what those of us who have been through this can see. This is an absolute dagger through the heart. And it sucks. You will feel every emotion. But lean on us man.

I never in a million years thought my wife was capable of the things she did behind my back. And in the process did to me. I did the pick me dance to try to get her to see we could make it all work out. I tried to believe her when it was really just a bunch of lies sprinkled with half truth. I thought maybe it was my fault. I worked too much. I didn't spend enough time with her. I didn't give her what she wanted or needed. I didn't fuck her good enough. My dick was too small. She had to cheat on me. What choice did she have? Bullshit. Six years later now I know it was her defective character and her choice to be a liar and a cheater and to not give a shit about what that did to me.

That is why I tell people to look up the member on here named SpaceGhost0007 and read his story. That man is my hero and I wish I had handled things the way he did. He did not tolerate being lied to and cheated on for one single solitary second of his life no matter how hard it was and no matter how much he loved his wife. There was no ambiguity when it came to such an outrageous betrayal. Your wife is not allowed to send nude pictures and say to another married man "I want you to cum in my mouth before you fuck me" and "That was hot, we should do that again next time." She has shown you who she is.

You have received some good advice on here already from other members. You have alluded to the fact that you are financially well off. Be careful that she will not just say all the right things to play the game in order to stay with you for the comfortable lifestyle you provide. Keep posting man. Whatever you decide, there are folks on here who have been down that road. We are here to help and support you in whatever way we can. We just don't want to see you get hurt any more than you already have.

Just clarify one thing. The VAR. Keep one on you at all times. Many think their wives "would never" .....
However any of us that have been here for a while have seen more than we want false DV claims against the victim. And it ends up harming them in the D or custody arrangement. Do not allow yourself to be the victim again. Do not say she would never. At this point you know she isn't who you thought she was.

One of the first things I would do is have your wife contact AP's wife and apologize. AP may have already started damage control, but maybe not. If you think that email was just for your benefit, then he hasn't told her anything. You have all of the proof so there's no way he's denying it to OBS. Having WW be the one to tell OBS will bring her around to some of the pain she caused your family when she has to see what it will do to his. If she's being honest with you now, there is no reason for her not to do this. If she hesitates and tries to protect him, then she's not done with him yet. Help her make sure it's done and over.
I'm sorry you're going thru this.

Please don't have your WW contact the OBS. It could cause the OBS have a panic attack. (I did.)

You should contact the OBS and let her know so she can make an informed decision on her life.

Hey, IKBDK. You'll get great advice here. My stance is the approach of getting honest with yourself and attempting to end the self-denial phase. At one point you have to acknowledge that she only used you to take care of her kids, it's simple, just basic. She never loved you of that you can be certain. I don't see in your story any grounds for any reconciliation. Let your lawyer do their work and start taking care of yourself. I'm sorry man.

As far as divorce goes... I had her sign a prenup before we got married

Well thank God for that. Too bad there wasn’t a separate, harsher provision for when one spouse commits adultery. Or was there?

OP, what are your next steps? I would MASSIVELY suggest following my list (the remaining applicable items) if you are even remotely considering R. If there’s one thing you can be 100% sure of, is that if your adulterous wife isn’t immediately willing to do everything on that list, and a hell of a lot more over time, then she is NO candidate for R and you are only setting yourself up for more heartbreak. We don’t want that.

At the same time, if you do pine for R, we will back you on that, but we know the things needing to happen in your W’s head and heart, as evidenced by her actions and willingness to put it ALL on the table. So far, we’ve seen firm evidence she should absolutely NOT be seen as a candidate for R, at least not now. It’s your life, and if you want to be the one who attempts R with an unremorseful spouse, you certainly won’t be the first to "have to learn the hard way". We’ve all see that and desperately want to spare you the additional soul-crushing pain that entails, especially after having endured so much pain thus far. Please don’t be one of the many who think their circumstance is truly unique/special and therefore our crowdsourced wisdom doesn’t apply. Our collective wisdom is always right but so many, men particularly it seems, decide they know better, and pay dearly for that mindset. Don’t be that guy!

And keep posting!! 😃

Hi IKBDK, sorry you had to search out and join this "club". Your story was very triggering for me, I also discovered my WW's infidelity over Christmas (2018) through her social media app, and found more evidence of her A in her email. I still remember struggling to control my emotions in front of family and friends through Christmas and New Years. I confronted her in that first week; she had a 9 year EA and PA, but because it was abroad it was only physical once or twice a year. The way your WW is reacting is very similar to how my WW reacted, how she starts to remember things and lets you know about them over days or weeks.

Have your WW start organizing her thoughts and memories into a timeline with as much detail as you'd like to see. It took a few back and forth rounds with my WW until her timeline was complete, and I was able to ask a lot of follow-up questions based on what she put down. It sounds like your wife is open to telling you everything, try to get everything out of her so you don’t experience another DDay.

All I can say is R is possible, but it takes a lot of work and acceptance. It took my WW a couple years after DD to get over her "love" for AP, though she now seems to recognize that it was all an addictive fantasy. We've been in R since then; it's been better in most ways and not so great in others. I don't know if there will ever be a point when we're "reconciled". It feels more like a perpetual work in progress with hills and valleys, but for the most part the valleys are getting shorter and shallower, and the hills are wider and happier.

There's no rush in deciding whether to R or D. For now just focus on your healing from the trauma and getting out of infidelity. You may want to consult with a lawyer if you want to learn more about what your options are. Some posters will recommend grey rocking her or to separate to help you heal emotionally, I did the opposite and leaned in towards her and it worked for me, but my WW's AP lives thousands of miles away which is a lot farther than 3 hours. Your situation, while common to folks on this website, is still a very personal journey that only you can navigate. You will probably get a lot of strong opinions of your WW's motives and character, but only you know your wife so try not to take those negative posts personally. Eat, drink (non-alcoholic), and sleep to take care of your physical well-being; this will take a lot of time but you will survive.

[This message edited by Divod62 at 8:15 AM, Monday, January 22nd]

This situation is way beyond the realm of MC-MC alone, that is. As other posters mentioned, MC is for repairing dysfunctional marriages, not so great at fixing dysfunctional individuals.

Your WW is in need of serious individual counseling with someone who specializes in infidelity, is not an infidelity apologist, does not subscribe to the unmet needs or blame shifting (the BS is partly to blame) ideology. These sorts of counselors can cause you great harm and validate your WW’s extremely dysfunctional behavior.

Get individual infidelity trauma counseling for you and IC for her, well established, and then augment with a well vetted MC who specializes in infidelity and also does not subscribe to the harmful ideologies mentioned above.

You’re experiencing profound shock and trauma. It going to be difficult, if not impossible, to think straight for a while. Don’t make any definitive decisions until you’ve had time to process. Don’t take any rash action until you’ve consulted with an attorney, trusted friends and resources. Don’t make any decisions that are fear or anger based. Instead, channel any anger into productive forms of action impetus. And know, that you will get through this, just as we have, and life after infidelity is substantially better than life in infidelity.

Your goal is to come out of this in a better position than you were before, not just "Survive Infidelity".

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 12:51 AM, Monday, January 22nd]

IKBDK I am so sorry to bring this up but as you mentioned it.

Ya, the STD testing is a sore subject, and one of the things I didn't feel like getting into. Until Christmas day 2023, April 19, 2021 was the worst day of my life. That's the day my wife told me she had herpes. She started off by saying "I promise I have been completely faithful to you." She decided to get tested at her annual gyno appointment the week before and got the results on the 19th. I was tested 4 times in 2020, every time I gave the doctor my "genetic material" for the artifical insemination and was clean. All 4 times were before the affair started. I knew for a fact I didn't have it recently. I got tested that week. The doctor said it was possible she had it all 12 years without passing it to me since her levels were so low, so I believed my wife.

The thing is this. Your W would have presumably been tested prior to the birth of your son in Dec 2020 and her A if I read the dates correctly. This is standard medical procedure (or should be as genital HSV of either type can be dangerous for babies if transmitted via natural childbirth and many with genital HSV are advised to have Caesarean sections to reduce transmission risk). What was the result then? Probably negative as she should have told you then if she was positive. Now if it’s HSV1 and non genital the situation is most likely to be less sinister as this can be passed by social kissing (lips to cheeks and this is how a lot of children and adults pick this up). But if it’s genital HSV of either variety but particular if it is HSV2 then third party genital contact is the more likely method of transmission. Even if your WW asymptomatic and had it years before she would have tested positive in 2020. So what was the result then if she was tested prior to the birth of your son? If negative in 2020 then she has either picked this up from her AP which you know about or from someone else (if AP really did test negative).

I hate to potentially add to your pain but this is something you might wish to consider or investigate. Your WW can no doubt tell you her HSV status in 2020 if she were tested. The records should remain in file somewhere.

[This message edited by Olderandhappier at 1:25 PM, Monday, January 22nd]

Well… If my understanding is correct the child was conceived with a donor egg and surrogate mother, so your wife probably didn’t have the expected pregnancy-related checks. However… in reaching the conclusion of needing a donor egg and surrogate mother I’m guestimating your wife has an extensive history of fertility-examinations, and those should have included the standard health checks for various STD’s.
I find it strange that both your wife and the OM felt a need to get a STD test… This isn’t something people do just for the fun of it. I also find it strange that they share that info. Somehow phoning a lover to let them know the last test came out clean would be considered a turn-off IMHO…

Great advice so far.

A few more things

1. Fuck yes, fuck is allowed. Sometimes it is the only word to describe the fucked up people we are or were married to. It describes our fucked up situation we find ourselves in. It was a special word for me, rarely used, till my wife had A, then it kind of described my life.

2. Don’t be surprised if you breakdown and cry at the attorneys office. It’s hard man. And talking about the end of your marriage is hard.

3. Sleep—-it’s been 4 weeks since Christmas. How are you sleeping? Get to the doctor when you can. Tell him what happened-high level, you found out your wife had an affair, and you can’t sleep. He will proscribe something. If it makes you sick, dizzy, zombie-go back and get something else. Doctors have heard it all-they will not be shocked. I would get rechecked on the STD while you are there.

4. The anger is on its way buddy. Scream in your car, hit the gym, tell the weights to fuck themselves as you lift-they can take it.

5. If you have a divorced friend, whose wife left him for another guy, go and talk to him. You friends might be sympathetic, but a guy who has been thru this understands even when you can’t find the words. If you know a guy whose marriage survived this, talk to him, but finding this guy is rare (they don’t advertise).

6. If you are religious, pray. However, be careful of talking to a pastor-when I talked to mine, they were more concerned about protecting the church than about me-and I was the one hurting.

7. Don’t be surprised if the baby boy acts differently. He can feel something is not right. He may come get in bed with you guys more. He might wet the bed. Make sure you make him feel loved, and safe for as long as you can.

8. Do not confide in your wife your fears, anxiety, etc. You are a business man, so treat her like a vendor or customer-business like till you decide what to do.

9. Stay away from alcohol for now.

So sorry you are here. It sucks. It does get better, and you will be functional again, but it’s gonna take a while.

OP,

My sympathies are with you. I have encountered more than a few pathological liars in my life. But by God your WW would lap all of them without breaking a sweat. Lying without a conscience is a kind of evil super power.

Clearing up a few things before some updates.

My wife had to have a historectomy soon after we got married, but had no previous fertility issues. But with a surrogate and egg donor, she wasn't tested before the pregnancy.

Unfortunately there was no provision in the prenup for adultery... Because I know I would never, and I know she would never... Right? "Many think their wives "would never" ....." I was one of them until a few weeks ago, but all thought of that has gone out the window.

I sold my company and "retired" in 2019 so working too much wasn't an issue. Retired in "" because I was going to get into something else. Then covid happened. Then my son was born, and I'm spending all day every day with him; not many parents, and especially not many male parents, get to do that and I'm loving it. Although many days recently I've thought getting out of the house for 8-10 hours at a time with something to occupy my mind would be nice.

I've now read all their emails back to 2009. There were probably just 2-4 per year and harmless until early 2020 on her part anyway, the AP had been trying to get together with her for years and she kept rejecting him. Until April 2020, she didn't even have his phone number.

My wife had an individual session with our MC on Friday. It was telehealth on account of the blizzard. I put a VAR in the master bath where I figured she was going to do it. Felt like a huge invasion of privacy, but I really don't give a shit about that right now. Apparently were I had to hide it was too far from the conversation so it didn't record anything. Would that have been good for me to hear? I'm not sure, but I've adopted the position that good or bad, knowing things beats not knowing things.

The MC recommended a few ICs for my wife, and she is going to start seeing one. I have my private session with the MC tomorrow, and will be getting some IC names as well and will start seeing one asap. I have an appointment with either a psychologist or psychiatrist next week (the one that can prescribe things, I never can remember which is which).

We've had some good conversations since her private MC session. In the past few days she has been very forthcomming with info, and I've read some private conversations she had with the AP and friends during and immediatly after the affair. Without going into too much detail, I am certain that the PA part only lasted from April 2020 to May 2021. I actually think it ended in April 2021 but she is almost positive they saw eachother one last time after what I thought (and still think) was the final time. The EA took until mid 2022 to stagnate. She congratulated him on winning his election in November 2022, and in 2023 they wished eachother happy birthday. That was all the communication until happy new year from him this January 1st.

This weekend we had some return to normalcy too, whatever the fuck that means now days. As I was playing in the snow with my wife and son yesterday it hit me hard; this IS the life I want. I also read a good line somewhere on here or in a book or heard it on a YouTube video.

"If you have the courage to leave, you have the strength to stay."

Maybe it's because my self confidence is absolutely shattered right now, but that resonated deep.

But it's because of her private conversations that I read that I'm actually considering reconciliation. Crazy, right? The messages early on were tough to read, but near the end she expressed remorse for her actions and concern for me to her friends, and even went as far as saying she didn't know how she got so caught up in the fantasy. She also declined a few months worth of the APs invitations to meet up again and on multiple occasions told him she felt guilty. This was all from a Whatsapp backup. I have a good friend who's job deals with data protection and encryption and he assures me there would be no way to fake the backup; the guilt and remorse were genuine and in conversations I was never supposed to see. That's good, right? At least it makes me feel good about all this shit. Well, good still isn't the right word, but certainly a little bit better.

I also feel better when I compare myself to the AP. I'm about 6 inches taller, make more money, am much better looking, and have a bigger dick (and believe me, I've seen the pictures. In most of them it looks like his penis is embarrassed to be photographed. I want to text the pics to him and ask why he would send pictures like this to anyone. I'm not going to, but the thought amuses me and I need a laugh right now).

But then I get all upset again thinking WTF did my wife see in this guy. Why HIM? She can't come up with an answer either... Stress of a baby on the way, worry that she couldn't bond with a child that wasn't biologically hers, fear from covid, just found out a close friend had an open relationship with her husband and might have been influenced by that, drinking too much, daughter developing serious medical issues while trying to finish high school, still getting used to being around eachother 24-7 after I retired and wanting to experience something different, tired of being stuck at home in lockdown and needing some excitement... But that's all bull shit. Fact of the matter is there won't be a good reason, and at some point I'll have to come to terms with she doesn't know WHY.

I hate the fact that some of my happiest memories are tarnished by knowing she was "in love with" and fucking another man at the time.

I don't have any friends or family I'm comfortable talking about any of this shit with incase we end up staying together, but I also don't want to talk to them because it's pretty fucking humiliating. I very much appreciate everyone here, and will probably be around for at least as long as it takes, whether that means R or D, and likely for some time after. I'm about 50% R 50% D right now. Still seeing my attorney on Thursday to discuss options; hope for the best and prepare for the worst, right?

I've been trying to take care of myself. Been going to the gym hitting the bike way too hard, strangely the hurt feels good. I very rarely drink. Got that out of my system in my early 20s, and learned a long time ago that it doesn't ever make things better. Still crying daily. So is my wife. I think the gravity of what she has done and how hurt I am is sinking in. Or at least that's what I want to believe. Still haven't slept worth a shit.

I'm still not angry at her and it's so strange. I know I should be. I'm madder than hell at the AP; I want to get in the truck and head west and go smash his skull in with a rock. I'm not going to. I'm not and have never been a violent person or had much of a temper, but the thought feels good. It's the same reason I haven't decided whether or not to notify the OBS (is that the right abbreviation? There are so many new ones... Other Betrayed Spouse). Yes, she has the right to know, but I don't care about that or her. At all. Being honest with myself, I know my reason for wanting to tell the wife is because I want his life to be as genuinely fucked as mine feels right now. But more than that, I want him and them to not be a part of my life ever again.

But that feels like they just get away with it. No punishment, no wrath, no retribution, no revenge. No consequences. It doesn't feel right to me. But nothing else feels right to me either. I'm just so fucking hurt I don't feel anything else.

Thanks for listening. I truely appreciate all of you that I'll never know for being here for me during what I hope is the worst time of my life. Know that even if I'm not posting, I'm reading replies a few times daily.

You're "madder than hell" at the AP because it allows you to vent rage away from your wife. This is common as a betrayal coping mechanism.

Don't get me wrong, wanting him to die horribly and slowly is pretty understandable but the fact is the betrayal (the traumatic part of all this drama) came at the hand of your wife. She's the one that used your trust and love against you to get some pleasure at your expense. Wrapping your head around that and seeing the awfulness without flinching is a big step in R.

Thanks for the update OP.

First off, we will respect your choice of R or D. I would heavily advise you not making that decision yet (unless what she’s done was a dealbreaker, in which case proceed immediately to D). I would also caution you that unless your W receives some meaningful consequences (again, NOT punishment), she’s at high risk of repeating, as you would have taught her that adultery isn’t really that big of a deal.

It's the same reason I haven't decided whether or not to notify the OBS

And here’s exactly one of those consequences we will PLEAD with you not to cover for your W. Letting the OBS know is not only the right thing to do, it also PROTECTS YOU because you will have a full-time set of eyes on OM, watching him like a hawk, and will make him enormously less likely to ever contact your W again. If someone had known about your W’s adultery last year and didn’t tell you, would you not care? Wouldn’t you prefer to know, so you can have agency over your life, knowing the actual state of your M? NOT telling OBS is covering for your W. Don’t do that!

Keep posting!

[This message edited by gr8ful at 10:13 PM, Tuesday, January 23rd]

IKnewButDidntKnow,

My heart hurts reading this.

5 years out from D day, here's what I think. Even if you reconcile and she drops him, you'll never feel like YOU are special, the love of her life. The one she truly wanted to marry. Or at least, that's me. Maybe others will chime in.

It's insidious. It's the most hurtful feeling. WH said I was his one and only. Told me all the special things. But he had a 10+ year long affair with a woman he said he connected with more than he did me, though he never intended to leave me for her. And then he proceeded to tell me that he jacked off and fantasized about two ex-girlfriends - put me in a naked, visual line up, and when while I couldn't 'do it' for him, they could. He begged. He pleaded. I agreed to stay out of financial necessity at the time.

It hurt. Worst pain I've ever felt. But you know what? I wish I could go back... and leave right then. I wasted 22 years on D day, then another 5 trying to put it all back. And while he eventually did try, and I can say that he's a friend now, I couldn't get past the feeling of being 'good enough, but not them.' I couldn't get past him saying he was more connected to his AP than me. And the lies - he still insists to this day that he and AP never screwed around, not a pet, a fondle, nothing... even though she showed up at his hotel every time to pick him up for dinner.

The fact is, you'll never know all the facts. There's far too much history between this OM and your WW. You'll always wonder if she's thinking of him, still loves him, etc.

Gather your evidence. Get an attorney. Ask for a divorce. I lost 27 years of my life when, if I had left 5 years ago, would only be 22.

I'm so sorry. There's no pain like this, is there?

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 6:49 PM, Friday, January 26th]

Have you informed his wife?

Hey, be careful with rationalizing and minimizing. Right now you're in a precarious situation, the shock and denial phase.

But it's because of her private conversations that I read that I'm actually considering reconciliation. Crazy, right? The messages early on were tough to read, but near the end she expressed remorse for her actions and concern for me to her friends, and even went as far as saying she didn't know how she got so caught up in the fantasy. She also declined a few months worth of the APs invitations to meet up again and on multiple occasions told him she felt guilty. This was all from a Whatsapp backup. I have a good friend who's job deals with data protection and encryption and he assures me there would be no way to fake the backup; the guilt and remorse were genuine and in conversations I was never supposed to see. That's good, right? At least it makes me feel good about all this shit. Well, good still isn't the right word, but certainly a little bit better.

If you feel that's your decision to make then do it, but only do it because it's best for you, not because you feel you have to fix and hold on to something.
Even if you feel superior compared to the AP, it's rarely the physical part that matters, at least for me, it's the shattered trust that counts. Where's the benefit in being the most handsome man, having wealth and the biggest dick, if your partner is having fun with all the the guys from around the corner. Yeah you can tell yourself, at least I'm more handsome and richer and have the bigger dick. Cheating is rarely about the one who is cheated on, it's always about the cheater. It's good that you found out that you are 'better' than the AP, it always is a part of the variables that help to move on, because it kinda helps your self-esteem. But please don't use it to ignore the rest.
If you attempt reconciliation do it with opened eyes. Know why you do it, not because you feel you have to do it or because you're afraid of loosing something or because you feel you can't get anything else. Have a solid foundation on where you build and stand.

Whilst the question re what he had that you didn’t is completely understandable, I encourage you to have a look at the cocktail of endorphins and neurotransmitters lit up by the thrill of the illlcit, unavailable and infrequent. Your wife’s text to your friend I believe was confusing the dopamine high she got out of ‘it’, the affair, and it’s out of ordinariness, and not any real feelings of love, which btw is based on oxytocin, the bonding hormone; apart from their previous relationship, he could have been anyone tbh that satisfied the dopamine high and escape from the more prosaic every day self, and perhaps her need for validation and excitement. Women more than men tend to overlay the more seedy aspects of affairs with narratives of forbidden love etc, Hollywood and mills and boon style.