SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I would love to believe what you say but the thing is: I swear all the next guy has to do to 100% satisfy her needs is to just have a stable job and not be a total frkn a-hole.

The biggest reason why we fell out was because I'm still chasing a job for my passion with no monetary stability. I run from paycheck to paycheck and will continue to do so after university. And make no mistake - she stuck with me for YEARS while I was still broke and had no lifestyle to offer.

I'm not proud of my thinking. I should not be jealous, but feel good for her if she can finally settle down with a man. But I cant seem to get a hold of that jealousy.

What does she do for a living? Does she have a job to fund her lifestyle? Or is she dependent completely on your for that??

Think about this : we are living in the 21st century. Today, a woman doesn't need a man to offer her a lifestyle. She doesn't need a man to feed her or shelter her. She can do this on her own. She is capable. If you had monetary problems, then she could have taken up a job to help you and herself. Isn't that how relationships work? It's not that you are not trying to improve your situation. If her commitment to you is conditioned to your monetary status, then she is not the woman you think she is or the woman you deserve.

The biggest reason why we fell out was because I'm still chasing a job for my passion with no monetary stability. I run from paycheck to paycheck and will continue to do so after university. And make no mistake - she stuck with me for YEARS while I was still broke and had no lifestyle to offer.

Did she say this, or is this your patriarchal thinking? In patriarchy, men are the sole providers. Only they can provide, and women can not survive on their own. Women need a man to offer them a life and lifestyle. If a man fails to provide, then he is considered to be unmanly and weak, and he doesn't deserve any woman. Is this how you are thinking?? If yes, then remove this line of thought. It's hazardous to your self-esteem and is awfully inaccurate. I can already sense from your 'average joe' statement that you have low self-worth and low self-esteem. It will affect your every future relationship whenever you go through tough times.

If you want to heal, then don't blame yourself for her affair. You can blame yourself for the status of your relationship with her but not for the affair. You can't heal if you believe you are responsible for her affair. Take yourself out of her affair equation. That is when the detachment process starts. Detachment is the first step of healing.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 10:11 PM, Thursday, August 24th]

Yes she has a good, stable job.

While I agree that a lot of the stuff that resulted out of our patriarchial society is harming women as well as men, some things just come down straight to biology and I believe it is absolutely natural and normal for a woman wanting to lean on her man for safety and stability.

I approve of this myself, I just couldnt provide it as of now. I might in the future, and I always highlighted that my job is not a dead end or naive dream, just a long road to set foot in but she just didnt want to wait on me anymore.

Also it boils doen to the way I have handled things. I shut down.

I was so lazer focused on building a portfolio for my design career, working on it for 10-14 hours a day, for weeks no end.

Her desperate callings for attention or fun were simply ignored. For months. Maybe more than a year.

She fought for us up until the day it clicked with AP.

After that she dumped me within a matter of weeks. So I can barely even say that she cheated on me. She more than like rather monkey branched.

During the relationship it was only emotional.

Monkey branching is a euphemism for cheating, let's not coat turds in sugar here. She cheated. On you, with a married man who had kids and a wife. I think you'll also likely find that her claims that the wife 'didn't even care' are blatant lies - it's a common cheater tactic to put the betrayed spouse off their trail and to 'not bother' reaching out to the OBS (other betrayed spouse) accordingly.

She's a cheat, and for the sake of your healing, you need to take her off the angelic pedestal you have placed her on, and replace her in your mind on the pedestal of cheating dung she deserves to occupy.

So I can barely even say that she cheated on me. She more than like rather monkey branched.

Yeah, that's still cheating. She cheated on you. It DOES. NOT. MATTER. if you were checked out for a day, a week, a year, or a decade - she still CHOSE to have an affair instead of to do the honorable thing and end the relationship before starting a new one. That's cheating.

During the relationship it was only emotional.

Prepare yourself for this not to be the case. I have been around here for years now and I can't tell you how many times "it was only emotional" turned out to be a full-blown physical affair. That includes my situation too I might add.

Please stop telling yourself that she cheated because you did A B or C. NO NO NO, nyet, nein, non, negative ghost rider. She cheated because she is entitled and selfish and did not care who she hurt. Cheaters cheat because of THEIR bullshit. It is NEVER the fault of the betrayed. Ever. EVER. Of course you are not perfect, and maybe you were a total ass to her for years, that still in no way excuses her CHOICE to cheat. When they are in a relationship that no longer serves them, good people - people with integrity - will exit the relationship before even thinking about starting a new one. Period.

Yes.

I am actually able to do that. this is probably the wrong forum... because I believe the true heartbreak for me is the disappointment in myself.

I know she didnt cheat because of me. i know shes a liar. A reckless woman capabable of throwing another woman and 3 children under the bus to fulfill her needs.

The real problem I have is forgiving myself for neglecting my relationship I believe...

I'm not going to sit here and tell you how horrible a person your ex is. But to be fair, you need to take her off this pedestal that you have put her on. She is a flawed person, like you and me, but her character is not what you believe it to be.

You are right that relationships require work. You took her and the relationship for granted, and that surely contributed in a negative matter to the state of the relationship. But you said that she tried and tried to get it back on track, but you just couldn't see the reality for what it was. I can agree with you on that.

But when her character was put to the test, what did she do? All she had to do was leave the relationship. She could have told you point blank that she is done trying to fix a relationship that you are putting zero effort into, and left it at that. Why did she go the most volatile and destructive way for almost all parties involved? How could this wonderful woman....as in your topic title....reign so much pain on an innocent woman's life? You say she doesn't care, but is that really the truth? You think that this betrayed woman is better off now, somehow? And I guess the children benefit from this ordeal?

NO. This was a part of her that you didn't know existed. But it was there, waiting to be tested. And she failed miserably in this regard. You say that she will NEVER cheat again, but why is that? She just up and left you because she doesn't want to face the actions of her consequences. She hasn't grown from this experience; she has simple learned how to run away from it. That does not bode well for future relationships....WHOEVER it may be with.

DeGeGuy,

You need to tell the wife of that POS coworker. Please. If you have any evidence, send it to her anonymous, anything. Think about how you felt suspecting what was going on, and now think of her. Do the right thing, please tell her, give her the information she deserves.

I speak this as someone who if I had known what my WWs APs wife had known it would have made so much difference. Tell her. You know, she needs to as well. It’s the right thing. And know you aren’t destroying a family, her husband did, she needs to know.

Gently, you have her on an unrealistic pedestal. You are only seeing her through rose colored glasses. When you look up to her, she looks down on you. She WILL cheat on the next guy if some attention comes her way.

So I can barely even say that she cheated on me. She more than like rather monkey branched.

Dude she had sex with another man in your home!!! You are busting ass to provide and better yourself and she is a fucking a married man in your home. She has zero respect for you and she only came back to test the waters (make sure you were still an available branch) then she bailed again.

You are the same age as my Son, you have a whole life ahead of you. Go take life by the horns.

I believe it is absolutely natural and normal for a woman wanting to lean on her man for safety and stability.

It's a natural desire for any gender. Everybody wants a stable and safe partner.

I was so lazer focused on building a portfolio for my design career, working on it for 10-14 hours a day, for weeks no end.

Is that a bad thing? (Unless you are hiding something) You said yourself that you are not financially secure. So, you were bursting your ass to secure financial prospects so that both of you could have a stable and prosperous future. She should be supporting you. Instead, she nagged you about it for months and then betrayed you in the worst way possible. I don't see a wonderful woman here but an extremely selfish and entitled woman who couldn't wait for her partner to financially secure his life.

She has manipulated and convinced you into believing this 'unmet needs' crap to justify her affair. Basically, blaming you for her affair.

Get her off the pedestal. Inform the OBS. Don't believe what your partner has said about OBS. She lied. She does not want you to inform OBS because,
A. She doesn't want to face the consequences. Not be held accountable.
B. That would kill the affair. She may want to continue her affair with MM.

There is no guarantee that her affair has ended. So, informing OBS will help her immensely. It's the right thing to do.

Something to think about: even if you had acknowledged her needs and did something about it, she would always be the type of person that could completely destroy another woman and her three kids to fulfil her own needs. You may have dodged a bullet so stop beating yourself up about this!

Is that a bad thing? (Unless you are hiding something)

I am not hiding something but I want to highlight here that even though I might have been very ambitious about starting my career, I also neglected her sexually and emotionally, myself and everything around me for that. Which I believe was very egoistical and very reckless. To put it simple: I just became really unattractive in every angle.

My childhood trauma took me over. I became VERY dismissive. There were multiple occasions where I just walked out our apartment, left for a friends house and left her at home, crying over be being so dismissive. I used to get very jealous, very insecure and started throwing childish tantrums when she went out with the girls. On top of that I was very lethargic, stopped working out, stopped going out with my friends.

I'm not trying to trauma dump all you guys, just trying to provide more insight.

To me, I just don't understand myself anymore.

Trust me, anybody who knows me would've been 100% certain that I would never tolerate somebody cheating on me.

But for her, its a spiral leading down... Whenever I want to find closure, I just discover how badly I have behaved. It results in me being unable to find peace. She did her best for every day of the relationship.

I didnt deserve to be cheated on, but neither did she deserved to be treated like she is replacable. Ultamately I was replaced. I think it's just Karma.

You treat your SO like shit, you get treated like shit.

It's a lesson I've learned. I will NEVER redo what I have done here. So that is good. I know.

But I see no value being added here. Lost the love of my life in exchange for self-reflection. I feel like any future woman I'll meet will get a "regulated", "programmed" version of who I am. I mean, it's only right. Of course I need to improve and not repeat that behavior.

But emotionally... I just feel like I will never be able to love in a "pure" and "honest" way. Only in an regulated and planned way.

She did her best for every day of the relationship.

No. No she didn't. Stop deifying her. She's a cheater, a garden variety selfish entitled allaboutme cake eating CHEATER. That is not a wonderful person and that's not a person who "did their best".

Let me share a little of MY story with you.

I was the only employed one in the relationship. I made just enough to keep us afloat. I also did the bulk of the household work, the cooking, the grocery shopping etc. My xwh played video games and ignored me. So many times I would have conversations with him about all of it and he never changed.

He cheated. I didn't. You hear me? I was the emotionally neglected one who begged him to change and it never even crossed my mind to cheat. Because good people with integrity DON'T CHEAT EVER. It's not even in their mental list of options to choose from.

Your xgf had MANY options that didn't involve doing the most destructive thing but she chose to cheat. Because she is selfish, entitled, immature, lacking in empathy, lacking a moral compass, and did not give two diddly shits who she was hurting. Her choices had nothing to do with you or how you treated her. Noooootttthhhhhing.

Like you're doing right now, I also did a post mortem of my relationship and spotted a lot of problems with my behaviors and about how much bullshit I tolerated and I will never do that again. But I won't give a future SO a 'programmed' version of myself, they'll get the real me and if they can't handle it I will walk away. I gave nine years to my xwh, and if I'm being real honest with myself that was about six years more than I should have done. I learned lessons from this that have made me stronger and have brought me closer to myself. Not the way I would have chosen to learn those lessons, but I'll take that win for myself.

You're not perfect and you had some problematic behaviors.... welp take a number and join me in the line my dude cus NO ONE IS PERFECT (tho I would argue that being very focused on getting your career on solid footing is a good thing and that a good partner would support that and support you in that instead of whining about themselves). If there are things about you that YOU want to change then great. That shows emotional maturity to recognize problems in yourself and make changes. But change because you want to grow for yourself, not because of her or some hypothetical future gf. Make changes for you so you can be your best self.

I think the best way to cope with losing a "wonderful woman" is to realize that she is just a typical cheater and a terrible human being. You sound like you were a complete turd concerning your relationship and probably deserved being broken up with, but you didn’t deserve the abuse you took from such a "wonderful woman" by being cheated on. It wasn’t your fault, you couldn’t make her be faithful anymore than you could make her cheat, all of it is on her. You didn’t deserve this.

I feel like any future woman I'll meet will get a "regulated", "programmed" version of who I am.

Can you elaborate on these two words 'regulated' and 'programmed'??

I didn't deserve to be cheated on,

I don't know, man. In all your posts, you are giving us 'I got what I deserved' kinda vibe.

If you believe you deserved to be cheated on because you ignored her calls and neglected her, then fine. It's up to you. Let's move on to the real questions.

1. What do you want?

You have acknowledged that you are flawed. You are willing to work on yourself. You want to be a better partner. It's all good. IC is a good start. There's a healing library on this site. It will recommend a lot of good books to equip yourself with helpful knowledge.

2. What do you want from us? If you are venting out here, then go ahead. This is a safe place for you. But, if you want us to agree with you that you were responsible for her cheating, then sorry that won't happen here. If you want us to agree that she is a woman who had no problem with destroying another person's family and cruelly betraying her partner,is a wonderful woman, then I am sorry it won't happen here.

None of us are saying you are a wonderful man. Based on your self description in your posts, you are a naive and flawed person. May be you both are awful people. But to say she wouldn't have cheated if you had not neglected her and treated her poorly is not believable.

Now, let's focus on you. Tell us what what you want from us for your healing and personal growth. Let's not dwell anymore on your awful partner.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 4:29 PM, Friday, August 25th]

Can you elaborate on these two words 'regulated' and 'programmed'??

What I mean by that is, that by her breaking up with me (even before I knew she cheated. She only admitted to it 5 months after breakup) it basically opened up some kind of "pandoras box" for me.

You know, like insight that has completely and entirely changed my perspective about relationships, but didn't change my perspective of love at all.

Basically I found out that I had the entire package: A long term relationship, almost marriage, great in-laws, an absolute gorgeous looking woman, family life, an incredibly deep connection (in the end she betrayed me, yes, but 90% of the time we both worshipped and loved each other like nobody else) so basically I have had it ALL without all the behavioral shenanigans one has to do to make a woman appreciate you as a man. Not a single day I spend one thought about if I am "good enough". I was just who I was and she loved me for exactly who I am (until I became toxic and behaved the way I described.)

This made me realize that she was the only woman I have met that did exactly that. Took me as I am.

I've met other women before her and I started to realize that these were the type of women where I had to apply all these newly learned "rules" and "behaviors" to make them appreciate or value me.

So basically the woman who ended up monkey branching on me due to my constant display of unattractive behavior, at the same time was the only woman that accepted me for who I am and truly loved me.

Once I started to dip deeper into good, unbiased dating coaches like Corey Wayne for example, I have realized how much unattractive behavior I displayed. I started to see that my former opinion of what a relationship with a woman is supposed to be, was entirely naive and false.

The bitter fact is, as a man you're only loved if you provide tangible value to a relationship. Mostly monetary / lifestyle percs. While I know literally ZERO men who look out for ANYTHING else in a woman besides

- is she attractive
- does she treat me good / is she a loving personality
- can I have fun with her

I don't want to say I became "red pilled" as I truly dont wanna be as black and white about male / female dynamics as most of them guys are, but I definitely realized how un-masculine I have behaved and I fear that I habe to really screw with the way I love to lead a happy relationship.

Now, objectively this is a good thing of course. Great. Now I know much more about how to act in a relationship in a masculine manner. There are positives about it. I have finally after 30 years started to work out and got an amazingly looking physique after just a couple of months. Stuff like that.

But at the same time I feel like I'll never ever experience the type of puppy love and intense, unhinged togetherness I have experienced with her.

I feel like I need to be aware of so many things in a relationship, I can't just let the love flow as I experienced with my ex.

Hope that makes sense.

Now, let's focus on you. Tell us what what you want from us for your healing.

First off, I appreciate the tough love!

I start to believe that what is really holding me back from healing from the situation is the grudge I hold against myself... not even her as a person.

When she broke up with me I swear overnight I had pictures playing in front my eyes how idiotic I behaved. It was like instant clarification. I just cannot understand how I didn't how I treated her and the relationship, it's like I was trapped in a different persons head.

I know the answer is simply "gotta take the lesson and move on..."... I know.

But emotionally even after 7 months of seperation and her admitting to cheat on me, I just cannot let go...

I know its a dead end. I just need to accept that this relationship is dead and buried. It's just hard to do that if you have zero family (both parents already dead, no siblings) and your only family is now on the way to start a new family.

I dont know man... Maybe I am just venting. Not really proud of it and I understand that people cannot help me.

The real problem I have is forgiving myself for neglecting my relationship I believe...

That's pretty much it. I had to learn it myself and it was hard. The good thing is that you already realized that you are not responsible for her cheating, often times when people come out of a situation like yours they tend to take the blame on themselves, I believe it's a coping mechanism to still have this feeling, coming from a 'special relationship', that they are still special if they keep putting their ex on a pedestale by defending their actions.

I know your situation, best is to move on, heal and improve in your next relationship by not doing the same mistakes again. As I said in my previous comment, you are not responsible for your ex's cheating, but you are partially responsible for enabling that your relationship did rot away and the rest is just nature. Never take your relationship and partner for granted even you were on cloud 9 for years. A relationship is hard work.

[This message edited by bob7777 at 6:28 PM, Friday, August 25th]

Never take your relationship and partner for granted even you were on cloud 7 for years. A relationship is hard work.

yes... this is so hard to swallow man. shits making me tear up... I screwed up majestically.

So basically the woman who ended up monkey branching on me due to my constant display of unattractive behavior, at the same time was the only woman that accepted me for who I am and truly loved me.

So, a woman who accepted you for who you are now betrayed you for what you are?? That doesn't make much sense. May be you changed and she didn't like the new person. Or may be, she changed. So ,she didn't like you now for what you are. You both got into this relationship at a young age with little experience of true or long-term relationships. You both ignored eachothers red flags. Both were naive and felt entitled for lots of things. But, once things got settled and life transitioned from college life to work life, when seriousness and responsibilities of life creeped in, you both changed to become what you two are today.

I've met other women before her and I started to realize that these were the type of women where I had to apply all these newly learned "rules" and "behaviors" to make them appreciate or value me.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with improving yourself by following 'rules' and working on your 'behaviors' to become a better man to accommodate a woman who like a man with stronger integrity, better behavior and knows how to treat a woman. If you ask me, such a woman is worth the effort. But, if by rules ad behavior you mean act masculine, shower them with money and 'lifestyle', then they are not worth the dime. These are the women who will cheat on you. Run as far as possible from them. Fortunately, not all women a like them. You will find the right woman if you are not one of those guys who only see following things in a woman-

- is she attractive

- can I have fun with her

The bitter fact is, as a man, you're only loved if you provide tangible value to a relationship. Mostly monetary / lifestyle percs.

May be you are just projecting your patriarchal thoughts. I haven't met many women who agree with this mentality. While I do agree that man has to provide something valuable to a relationship, Otherwise, what's the point?? Nobody likes a lazy bum who does nothing or contributes anything. Similarly, even women have to contribute something valuable to the relationship. Otherwise, again, what's the point??

Find a woman who treats you equally and doesn't see you as a cash cow or lifestyle provider. There are plenty such women and you only need to find one. Treat your woman with love and respect. For successful relationships, open, honest, and transparent communication is vital. Such communication plays a vital role in balancing the dynamics of such relation. Keeps both parties informed of each others sentiments, vulnerability, and feelings. Helps them to work through their issues as a team. That is where you failed. So, work on that.

Now, objectively, this is a good thing, of course. Great. Now, I know much more about how to act in a relationship in a masculine manner.

Brother, don't go into the zone of masculinity and femininity. It's a very confusing and toxic place.

Masculinity in relation is usually interpreted as being in control and dominating, which is not always the good idea, and very easily, it can become toxic and abusive.

Look, the relationship is like a living being. New relations are infant babies. So, it needs constant care, love, nurturing, and nourishment. As the baby (relationship, Re) grows, it develops a healthy personality that will not only keep the baby(Re) survive for long duration even with all the challenges of life, it will also keeps the parents (you and your partner) happy and fulfilling. Treat your relationship like you treat your child. The difference between a real baby and a relationship is that when both parents are good and perform their duties as they are expected to, then the chances of their relationship getting spoiled and bratty is zero. Whereas in case of real baby, one can not say.

I start to believe that what is really holding me back from healing from the situation is the grudge I hold against myself... not even her as a person

It's pretty normal for BS to hate themselves (whether its valid or otherwise) when they are cheated on. It's how BS mind works immediately aftermath. It's a way of controlling things. 'If I had done this' or 'had not done that', this wouldn't have happened. The idea that we have no control and our partner can cheat on us regardless of our behavior or moral code is pretty scary. We don't want to believe that. We don't want believe that sometime an injustice can occurr to us and we can do nothing to prevent it. So, we tend to go for a less scary idea that if I Had BEHAVED NICELY, this could have been prevented. So, we believe that's all we have to do. Act nicely, show love and care, and then we won't be cheated on. It also highlights that we are in control of the outcome (which is not always true).

7 months isn't that long. It is believed here that healing takes 2-5 years only when you are actively working towards it. If you aren’t in IC, then make an appointment. Read books. Drink lots of water. Eat healthy food. Do yoga, meditation, and exercise. Spend time in your hobbies etc. Nourish your mind with fun and healthy experiences. Spend time in a healthy environment. You are young. Don't have kids. Not married to her. There's not much to lose. It's not the end of your life. There's more to life to live for. Find happiness in other things. Be content with your life. Let your next partner enrich your life and not be the sole provider of your happiness. Find a way to balance your life. Find a way to manage both your personal and professional life without hurting one another.

Also, inform OBS. She deserves to know like you did.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 7:34 PM, Friday, August 25th]

The "ideal woman" doesn't cheat.

This "amazing woman" lied to you and broke your heart she's the very definition of high maintenance

Also the next man will not get a purer version of her. She's a cheat, she cheated with a married man, she'll always be that person, when she needs excuses or gets attention, it will be easier next time.

Life has taught you, nothing is ideal, so why are you holding on to fantasies?

At least you didn't cut and run, tell me, who's better equipped for the next relationship, emotionally stable you or the cheating wreck her?