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My wife had an A which I discovered over a month ago. For the past month things have been rocky and she’s moved out of the house so we can have some distance. We are in therapy but she says she is paralyzed and doesn’t know what she wants to do. She is slowly pulling away from the AP and her and I are on okay terms but primarily just speaking about our boys and house stuff.

She says she doesn’t know if she wants to reconcile, end things because she doesn’t want me as a life partner (though she says she’s open to it - I’m hoping therapy helps us in this regard), end things to be single, end things to be with the guy or one of seemingly a hundred other possibilities. I’ve told her I’ll give her time to figure things out as long as we continue therapy.

She’s told me she hasn’t felt seen, heard, validates or desired in a long time. While I haven’t been the best emotional partner, I also believe she’s closed herself off to me trying to make her feel those things. So there’s some broken stuff within her she needs to fix including how to be happy, how to forgive (she still holds stuff against me that happened a decade ago).

I guess my question is how long can someone truly be paralyzed and not know what direction they want to go and what things can I do to make her start feeling seen, heard, validated (desired would need to come later). I want to reconcile but only if she’s going to commit truly and not have one foot in one foot out.

Thank you all for you support.

Usually when a ws does this, they're trying out the AP,to see how their relationship works without being hindered by a spouse at home. If it doesn't work the way they want, they return to Plan B..the spouse at home.

She's made a decision. Despite saying she hasn't.

Is he married?

You’ve only known of her A for a month. Don’t be so quick to commit to R just yet. Your wife seems to be blame shifting and doesn’t seem to be close to remorseful.

Use this separation time to work on yourself. Be the best version of you and be willing to let go of the outcome.

In relationships, the one with the power is the one who’s willing to move on from it.

Were there any particular parts of her A that was extra disrespectful to you and the family? Lots of lies? Was your heath placed in danger by her and her AP’s actions?

Find your anger.

Welcome to SI nothing you did or didn’t do caused her to cheat, she is blame shifting. I recommend going to the healing library and reading up on the 180. She is asking you to wait for her to decide. Think about that, she wants to test drive the AP a little longer and have you waiting as a backup plan.

She is treating you like and option, remove yourself from the equation.

Sorry you are in this situation, H&B. My WS told me he was conflicted….he just could not get off the fence. He wanted all the things I brought to the M and he wanted the excitement that his AP brought. Why would he give up one when he’d had both for so long and really liked it?
It’s classic cake-eating and it’s selfish and cruel.

Please remember that YOU ARE THE PRIZE. It can take time for your head and heart to sync up, but do you really want to be someone’s 2nd choice? Their plan B? You deserve to be someone’s ride or die.

As long as she is in communication with the AP, she is still in the affair. The infidelity continues. So so many WS want to taper off the AP- to make it gentle and easy so they don’t hurt them. What the actual F#ck?? They are willing to brutally hurt their spouse because they want to make it easy for themselves and their APs. Recognize how messed up this is and don’t allow it.

Also, consider if Marriage counseling is what is needed. She cheated. The M did not. The issues are with her not with your M.

Take of yourself: Eat healthy, drink lots of water, avoid alcohol, get enough sleep and exercise every day.
See your doctor for a full STD/STI panel. Don’t delay on this— the last thing you need is a disease.
See a few lawyers — not to file for D, but to educate yourself on what D might look like, what your rights are, and just allievate that unknown.
Knowledge is power so learn exactly what D might look like if you end up there.

Lastly, watch her actions and ignore her words. She says he may want to stay with you but she moved out and is still in contact with her AP. Words are cheap and easy— actions will tell you what she really feels.

Hang in there, and know that no matter what, you will be okay. This hurts like hell and sucks, but you will get through it.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. You've come to a good place though and I think you'll begin to find some clarity as you read through the Healing Library. Learning about why affairs happen can make a big difference in how you make decisions going forward.

She’s told me she hasn’t felt seen, heard, validates or desired in a long time. While I haven’t been the best emotional partner, I also believe she’s closed herself off to me trying to make her feel those things.

It kind of sounds like you've fallen victim to the "unmet needs" model of therapy which is still popular in books and used by therapists. The idea that it's somehow YOUR job to "make" your WW happy doesn't take character and choice into account.

I'm going to reprint a post in order to save myself some typing, but the bottom line is that we don't control other people. The "unmet needs" model sounds good to our ears because part of us really wants to believe that we have the power to control the outcome.

My own WH went on a Craigslist binge seven years ago, multiple partners, various degrees of emotional attachment. He even thought he was in love at one point. But ten years before that, I'd caught him out in some online shenanigans, porn, cybersexing, emotional affair, etc. In fact, I caught him out only two weeks before a planned meet-up. I'd already seen an attorney before I confronted him and I was bent on divorce, but he pretty much cried his way out of it and I settled on MC. As you might have guessed already, we too were bamboozled with the "unmet needs" model of therapy, which sounds so reasonable. I upped my wife game, and did my best pick-me polka, but within a couple of years, he was right back at it behind my back. By the time we reached the ten year mark, he had screwed up his nerve to go live and in person on Craigslist.

Of course, I was pretty shocked as you might imagine. I thought we were good. I thought his "needs" were met. Damned if I hadn't been turning myself inside out for a decade to make sure, right? The more I thought about it, the more I revisited what I knew about the "unmet needs model", the less it made sense. I was doing everything right and he still CHOSE to cheat.

Here's the fly in the "unmet needs" ointment...

Healthy ADULTS don't need to be validated. They validate internally. Healthy adults are self-fruitful in the matter of contentment and life satisfaction, and when things come up which make them unhappy, they address the cause and solve the problem. OTOH, the vast majority of cheaters cheat because they're seeking external validation. They are NOT emotionally healthy. They can't do it on their own. They've got a hole inside them and no amount of external validation will fill it. Certainly, the old and familiar validation of a spouse doesn't get the job done. Our "kibbles" are stale and boring. They don't create enough adrenaline anymore to make the cheater feel special. It's like getting an "atta boy" from your mom, right?

This is old pop-psy which is still being taught in schools and still selling books. But it's bullshit. NOTHING you can do (or fail to do) can MAKE another person throw away their core values and do something that's in this kind of opposition to good character. If you're a person who BELIEVES in fidelity, who VALUES fidelity, you don't cheat. End of story. Because when we truly value something we protect it. The cheater has a "but..." in his values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, but... not if my needs aren't being met." For people like you and me, we have a "so..." in our values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, so... I don't put myself in risky situations with the opposite sex." This is the BOUNDARY we create organically. We don't sit around planning it out. It just happens, because it's innate to our character to protect what we value. The cheater doesn't have those boundaries because he doesn't really honor his values. He only claims to.

I'm not saying that your marriage is over or that your WH can't change. What I am saying though is that this "unmet needs" model is NOT going to challenge him to clean up his flawed character. In fact, it allows him to offload responsibility onto the marriage and onto YOU. It's not your job to MAKE him feel (fill-in-the-blank-here). It never was. It's his job to manage his feelings. You could have been doing everything exactly perfect for the entire length of your marriage, and he would still have cheated... because there's NOTHING in his character stopping him and he has no coping mechanism to fall back on when he feels unvalidated, inadequate, unappreciated, etc.

It's HIS job to see that his "needs" get met. Sometimes that might mean negotiating with you, say if it's about sex or about the division of labor in your home, etc. But sometimes, it might mean that what he sees as a "need" is unhealthy in an adult, like external validation through attention and flattery.

MC's are there to treat the marriage. The marriage is the client. So, of course they're going to talk about communications, resentments and expectations. The MC doesn't want to alienate anyone, so s/he's looking to find balance on both sides. But marriages don't cheat. People do. The only way your WH is going to make a change that safeguards against further perfidy is by correcting his need for external validation and becoming an emotionally healthy adult whose deeds are as good as his word. No excuses, just honoring the things he claims to value. For that, I would recommend IC (individual counseling) with a therapist who is well-versed in adultery.

The last thing any newly-minted BS needs is to walk into an MC's office, believing that they've come to safe harbor, and being handed a copy of The Five Love Languages or some other "unmet needs" gobbledygook. It would be really nice if we actually did have the power to control our mate by giving them "acts of service" or "words of affirmation", but sadly, we aren't gods who can stop a cheater from seeking out his/her choice of adrenaline rush and new kibbles. Although, this kind of pop-psy suggests that their behavior is somehow our responsibility. The more you dig into this ridiculous line of thought, the more absurd it becomes.

Anyway... sorry for the lengthy post. Nothing fries my ass more than seeing new BS's being sold this bill of goods.

HAB

Gone over your other posts…

Do you recognize the phrase "suicide by cop"?
That’s where someone does something that’s geared towards a cop being forced to shoot you. Like lift a gun and point it at an officer, knowing that they will fire and hopefully kill you because you are too afraid to do so yourself.
Well…
Could it be that your wife is doing the marital-infidelity version of suicide by cop?

There are aspects in what she has done and how she shares it with you that – IMHO – are more geared to create pain rather than relevance. Sort-of trying to force you to pull the trigger on the marriage.

Could it be that YOU are paralyzed too?
Sort of like the cop that hesitates, and now it’s a question of who squeezes the trigger first. Or who lowers the gun…

I encourage you to do the following:

Let your wife know that she can decide what she wants. She’s free to be with OM or whatever. But not as your wife. YOU are moving out of infidelity, and if she wants to follow then she better be clear about it and join sooner than later. That the further YOU get out of infidelity the more comfortable you will be with your decision and the harder it will be for her to catch up.
It’s not what you want, but even less do you want to be sharing your wife.

How long can someone be paralyzed? As long as you let them.

My H too was paralyzed. Wanted the OW but was afraid to make the move. Kept me in limbo for 6 months. Stupid me — I kept listening to his words instead of watching his actions. I allowed myself to be played right up to dday2.

But then I wised up and made MY decision. I did not need him to make the decision about us. I needed to make the decision for me.

So I did. Told him "you’ve left me with no other choice. I’m sorry it has come to this but I am D you. You are free to be with the OW or anyone else you wish." And I left the room.

Funny how all of a sudden he wants to R and the OW is out of the picture. Hmmmmm…..

Don’t let the cheater decide your future. You can decide what YOU want.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 4:33 AM, Tuesday, July 4th]

I second this wholeheartedly:

Let your wife know that she can decide what she wants. She’s free to be with OM or whatever. But not as your wife. YOU are moving out of infidelity, and if she wants to follow then she better be clear about it and join sooner than later. That the further YOU get out of infidelity the more comfortable you will be with your decision and the harder it will be for her to catch up. It’s not what you want, but even less do you want to be sharing your wife.

I recommend strongly that you stop any marriage counseling and start some individual counseling. MC with a fence-sitting WS is just an expensive way to do the pick-me dance. Detach from her and work on yourself.

H&B,

I suspect the OMs history will tell you what path this affair will follow.

Most affair relationships go sour quickly.

If your WW is able to drag money out of your marriage and family then it might last until the money is spent by the OM and he finds another WW.

What do you know about OM please learn all you can, his past is your WWs future.

[This message edited by survrus at 10:12 PM, Monday, July 3rd]

Adding a few more points for clarity. She lied twice over the course of 3 weeks saying that she had stopped communicating with him (personally, not professionally) despite her continuing to do so. What makes this an odd situation is that they are both managers and work together so there are reasons for them to communicate professionally. After the second time she lied I told her to move out (last last friday, so she's been living in a hotel for roughly 10 days.) Since then she says she has not talked to him about anything personal and only spoken to him professionally and has also gone out of her way not to communicate with him professionally if someone else (like another manager) is able to do it. She says this makes her angry (specifically because two people that feel the way they do about each other should be able to communicate) that she cant but she is doing it because she wants to stop hurting me and stop hurting his wife. He is married but no kids. He has a history of mental health issues and suicidal thoughts. I keep telling her she is free to talk to him but that's basically her making a decision as far as what she wants and she insists she doesnt want to make a decision right now. His wife gave an ultimatum last week to choose her or his job. My wife also says she is looking at jobs outside her department which would mean they no longer have a reason to professionally interact. We are currently in MC but it's early and we both agree that we are going so we can heal first. If there's an opportunity for us to rebuild our relationship/reconcile that will come down the road.

I am willing to move on from the relationship but she is my partner of 18 years, spouse of 11 years and mother to my two children, 6 & 4. I am not willing to walk away without knowing that I've done absolutely everything possible to make our marriage work (though I wont stay together for the kids). I just hope at some point she gets to the same place. I do believe that working together its possible for me to get to a point where we move past this and I forgive her but I won't even know if I can until we get to a point where we are trying to reconcile.

@Hellfire Yes, married but with no kids. He and his wife were already in a rocky place apparently. They live about 500 miles away from my wife and I. He used to work here locally but then moved. He works remotely and with my wife as a manager.

@Nexther Yes. She was sending him pictures of my kids. Pictures of them snuggling with her in bed. She asked him if he could love my kids as his own. She told him "they could be yours" in reference to my kids. They also talked about having a kid together despite her and I deciding two years ago we didn't want anymore kids and I got a vasectomy. She also had sex without a condom with him during their trip to London together. She says he didn't finish in her because they didn't want to get her pregnant (One of the stupidest things I've ever heard). I did get an STD panel which came back negative.

@Bigger Yes this has absolutely occurred to me. I told her if that's what she wants then to just stop being a coward and end it.

@survrus Yes, we are both in individual therapy as well as MC.

[This message edited by HurtAndBroken531 at 11:17 PM, Monday, July 3rd]

I know it is easier said than done, and kids complicate things of course, but if it were in your shoes, I’d be taking a harder line. I’m sorry if that’s tough to hear.

You did well asking her to leave, but it also makes it harder yo build trust.

But I would have gone further. "If there is still a you and him, there is no you and me".

Personally I couldn’t work on building a new relationship with someone who still has another man in her heart. So I would have told her that while she still feels this way about another man, there is no MC (I would still do my own IC) and that until she has him out of her heart, and sees him for the piece of shit he is (and honestly the same that she is being) that there is no working on the relationship, there is only working on the (hopefully amicable) divorce.

I know that’s tough to think about. But to me, it’s the best way to stay out of months or even years of limbo.

I often cringe when I hear a newly hurt BS say "I want to feel i tried everything before calling it quits" when in fact it’s actually doing the opposite that really could have saved the marriage by standing your ground and not taking any of this "I have to think about it " bullshit.

I want to see you find your way to happiness either with or without her, and I truly believe that letting her dictate terms and hem and haw stringing you along is the worst way to get there.

State what you need to see from her "you need to prove you no longer have feelings for him and see him as the home wrecker he is, and then ensure neither of us ever have contact with him ever again, personally or professionally, and then and only then can we begin to discuss how we heal and build something better. Until you can do those things, I’ll be working with a lawyer to legally end the marriage that your choices destroyed ".

I’m sorry to be so harsh. I’ve read thousand of threads and I want you to have the best chance of finding what you need to be happy.

This is my opinion on what I believe works. As they say here, you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it.

Also they say "take what you need and leave the rest". If what I say doesn’t resonate with you, ignore it and move on to the next poster.

I wish you well going forward.

I often cringe when I hear a newly hurt BS say "I want to feel i tried everything before calling it quits" when in fact it’s actually doing the opposite that really could have saved the marriage by standing your ground and not taking any of this "I have to think about it " bullshit.

1000x, this. You took a great first step in asking her to move out.

We are currently in MC but it's early and we both agree that we are going so we can heal first. If there's an opportunity for us to rebuild our relationship/reconcile that will come down the road.

Heal what? Yourselves? That's what IC is for.

Heal what? Yourselves? That's what IC is for.

We've had a long relationship and there are things I've done to her in the past that she's still holding on to and hasn't forgiven me for. Things from over a decade ago. A history of lying on my part (mainly small, white lies. I've had issues with my weight and would hide food a lot.) I've worked REALLY hard to be a better person and I feel like I'm a completely different person these past 5-6 years since our kids were born than I was the first 10 years we were together. There's a long complicated history and we both need to heal from all of that before we can begin to work on the affair and after that to figure out if there's even a chance we can rebuild. I am expecting this to be a long process. Months, if not years. I am willing to do that work as long as she is. But yes, I need to keep seeing her take steps to distance herself from him and potentially end things. I've drawn a final boundary for her and told her if she lies to me again that I will end all counseling with her and move to divorce. She will continue to live outside the house for now. We aren't able to rebuild trust but frankly if she wanted to hide things from me she would find a way, so I have to take what she's telling me at face value.

She was sending him pictures of my kids. Pictures of them snuggling with her in bed. She asked him if he could love my kids as his own. She told him "they could be yours" in reference to my kids.

This is one of the most horrifying things I've ever read on this site.

You should be livid.

This is one of the most horrifying things I've ever read on this site.

You should be livid.

I am still very angry about it and so very much hurt. Ive read their entire text history. Out of all the things they talked about. All the insane hyper sexual stuff, that's the things the cuts me the deepest. I am an amazing father. I've been handling our kids day to day lives for years. Get up with them, make them breakfast, pack their lunch, get them dressed, get them on the bus to school. Pick them up from daycare, make them dinner, make my wife and I dinner, do the dishes, bathtime, etc. My wife has taken advantage of me every step of the way. She's had it so easy. Honestly I question myself a lot about why do I even want to work things out. I keep coming back to wanting to reconcile though. Maybe I'm being naive. We have so much history and we have so much great history. The last few years have been difficult and I want to believe we can get back to where we were. Maybe I am just experiencing trauma bonding?

One other thing I'll add. There's been a few instances where I've talked to my wife about something she said to the AP in text and she has ZERO recollection of saying it. Part of me thinks that her chemically altered brain due to all the dopamine just was saying whatever the fuck and has now shut it out of her head.

[This message edited by HurtAndBroken531 at 2:21 AM, Tuesday, July 4th]

she doesn’t want me as a life partner (though she says she’s open to it

How magnanimous of her! Gee, now why wouldn't anyone want to leave a person like that?!? She screws things up, and yet gives the victim a chance to stay with her! What a catch!

She says this makes her angry (specifically because two people that feel the way they do about each other should be able to communicate) that she cant but she is doing it because she wants to stop hurting me and stop hurting his wife.

The huge amount of empathy and magnanimity from your WW is astounding! She is pausing her communications with AP for you and your kids! Am sure your kids are proud of her.

*In case anyone cold not get it, the above is just sarcasm that I could not hold in*

__________________

I am not willing to walk away without knowing that I've done absolutely everything possible to make our marriage work (though I wont stay together for the kids).

This is where you are stumbling. Your priorities are screwed up, but that is to be expected at this stage. You will hyperfocus on issues that you can control, as that gives you a sense of control.

What you need to do is to take a bit of time, step back, look at the whole picture, then identify what really needs to be fixed first, and that is usually yourself. Like the safety announcements on planes, put the oxygen mask on yourself first, then help others. The others in your case would be your kids, not your WW, as she was the one that put the plane in peril.

Plot your own path and start walking on that path forwards. If your WW wants to follow you, she will, if not, just continue walking with your kids. Don't let someone who does not seem to have an interest in a life with you dictate your life for you.

Talk to friends/family for support or guidance, not your abuser. Gain wisdom from people who are invested in you as a person, not from someone who betrayed you. Invest time and effort in those who appreciate that investment, not in those that discard it.

Anyway, I do hope that you get out of this unpleasant situation quickly and not drag it on. Better to end a M with a quick stab to the heart, then death by a thousand cuts.

🚩. You blame yourself for her affair (ie I wasn’t a good partner years ago and she’s holding in to resentment).

🚩 I want to know I did everything I could to save the marriage

🚩. She sent photos of your children to the AP

🚩 You excuse her twisted thought process with the dopamine rush

I hope you can see the vid advice we are trying to provide. The cheater WANTS you to believe the above b/c it’s in their best interest.

A healthy functioning adult discusses issues or things in the marriage that does not work. They air their grievances in a healthy way. They DO NOT use them as an excuse to cheat.

You are making every classic mistake I did during my H’s affair. Sadly I did not have the benefit of SI - but you do.

A shift in your mindset is what is needed or your wife will continue to call the shots. And right now you are allowing her to make decisions for you. She doesn’t have remorse (IMO) and is putting her selfish needs first.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:33 AM, Tuesday, July 4th]

She wants "both" and will choose "both" as long as you leave that as an option.

Most cheaters have a hard time admitting this level of selfishness. As a result almost all of them are "confused" "don't know what they want" and make up a bunch of bullshit to keep the A alive along with their M.

What you need to do is to take a bit of time, step back, look at the whole picture, then identify what really needs to be fixed first, and that is usually yourself. Like the safety announcements on planes, put the oxygen mask on yourself first, then help others. The others in your case would be your kids, not your WW, as she was the one that put the plane in peril.

Plot your own path and start walking on that path forwards. If your WW wants to follow you, she will, if not, just continue walking with your kids. Don't let someone who does not seem to have an interest in a life with you dictate your life for you.

I am trying to focus on myself and my boys right now. I'm taking time off of work and focusing on getting myself healthier, eating better, lifting and running. I've thrown myself into books. At first it was infidelity books but now I'm on to personal development books and learning a lot about my emotions and how I process things. I've figured out that I never really learned emotional competency and how to actually listen and validate so I'm practicing that. I'm learning about what the pillars of a successful relationships are. I just don't know what else I can be doing at this point.