SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The1stWife

You can over-analyze this to 50 pages here at SI.

It comes down to WHY are you still triggered so badly after 3 years. The answer is that your cheating spouse has not done what YOU needed to heal from the trauma of the affair.

Secondly I hope you realize that your cheating spouse can only help you heal to a point. The rest is on you.

I too was struggling 3 years after Dday 2 of affair 2 wherein my H was going to Divorce me. I then saw a video Fault vs Responsibility by Will Smith. In essence you will be wronged by people. But it is up to you to heal yourself from those situations.

The analogy I use is this. You are in a car accident and you break your leg. The accident was not your fault. But the doctor can only heal your leg yo a point. If you don’t go to physical therapy for your leg it will never be 100% healed.

Same with infidelity. YOU have to heal yourself.

By year 4 of Reconciliation I was a very different person. My H was doing everything he could to make amends. If your wife is not giving you what you need, it’s time to reevaluate your marriage and whether it works for you.

Thank you. You're right. I know I need to work on myself. And I'm working on it. The analogy is spot on.

[This message edited by iamjack at 4:18 PM, Friday, May 26th]

Abalone123

I am sort of the Jill version of you in my marriage and currently struggling with similar issues and questions.

Lol, thank you so much for chiming in ! I've read your posts already, it seems we share some thoughts on the subject, indeed...

Ideally the marriage post affair should be better and different than the marriage pre affair , specially for the reconciling BS . If it hasn’t then most likely the WS isn’t putting in the effort required.

It should, yes. But to what extent ? My WS would look at the global picture and say "hey, you see, we communicate now, we're sleeping together now, we're married now, so we're better off than before !"

I am not asking you to leave but ask yourself this question I often ask myself:
There is infidelity.
There is lack of intimacy.
The sex does not meet my expectations specially when the partner is capable of more ( with others nonetheless!)
All of the above indicates a lack of respect for me.
The main pillars of a healthy marriage loyalty, intimacy, respect are all missing.
So why on earth am I still in the marriage ?

Even worse for me maybe, since I married her two years after the A...

Denying a spouse of intimacy is plain cruel. Sharing that intimacy with someone else is brutal. It is as cruel and as brutal as starving someone of food , water and oxygen. You don’t do that to people you love and respect.

You don't know how it feels to hear this from a woman. Most of the time I've been told this was just because I was a man, and I was obsessing on the sex they had, and because my libido as a man was higher, of course (even if we usually have sex 1 to 2 times a week on average, where she was having regular 4 times a week (sometimes 6 including me) and still asking for more...)
I'm not a sex addict, and I'm tired of having to justify myself when I say I lack intimacy. You're right, intimacy is as natural as food, water or oxygen in a couple. I should keep that in mind...

Please let your wife know that you respect yourself too much to be treated shabbily. I am sorry but she seems like a selfish person. Sex/ intimacy in a marriage should be a mutually rewarding experience. It’s all about her pleasures , be it with AP or be it with you.

That's what I've been telling me for the last 3 years. She talks a lot, she makes a lot of promises, a lot of excuses, but she's that : a lot of talk and few actions. She IS a very selfish girl, used to have guys providing for her, and giving her what she needs. Before I kicked her out after the A, this was the first time she was dumped by a man, no one else had ever dumped her before... (she didn' have a lot of partners, like 4-5, but anyway)

Please remind her that none of this is you overreacting, you are asking for the basic minimum of what is expected in a marriage.
I truly wish the best for you and hope that your wife realizes how fortunate she is to have a partner that wants healthy intimacy with her.

You're so kind. Thank you so much. I hope your partner realizes this too, he's very lucky to have you still around. And if he loses you, I hope you find a guy that deserves what you have to give, and that you'll be happy.

Your last post reminds me of a long ago thread, "But I thought things were great."

The post was about how the WW was tickled pink how great the M was post A, while the BH was miserable and white knuckling it, until he just couldn’t keep it bottled up anymore and asked for a D. The WW was floored. Had no idea.

Is this how you feel?

Dude67

Your last post reminds me of a long ago thread, "But I thought things were great."

The post was about how the WW was tickled pink how great the M was post A, while the BH was miserable and white knuckling it, until he just couldn’t keep it bottled up anymore and asked for a D. The WW was floored. Had no idea.

Is this how you feel?

No, I wouldn't say that. She knows everything's not great for me. We have already argued a lot these last days. She knows I haven't been really happy for some time. Even my children tell me I look sad sometimes (this breaks my heart). But I do think she has a tendency to put on rosy glasses and to act as if everything was fine. I suppose being stressed 24/7 your marriage is going to fail isn't sustainable either...

I think you need a solid path for yourself. The situation you find yourself in is not sustainable in the long run. You are white knuckling it snd allowing for a bit of rug sweeping to keep you in this M.

You say your that when you bring the issue up to the forefront with her, she makes a positive change for a few weeks then reverts back to her norm. This is not behavior that will keep you in a highly satisfactory M for the next 40 years or so. Can you see yourself happy in the M for the next 40 years?

You have tried everything else with no success. When a betrayed finds that their WW spouse is not making the necessary changes to maintain a successful R snd a happy M, then the betrayed must take more direct, concrete, and hard core actions to convince the WS that you will not accept or tolerate the behavior - that there are consequences.

You’ve tried the correct route, which is communicating your needs. This has not worked. I would recommend implementing the soft 180 to start. Your WW should receive little to no emotional or physical affection moving forward. She gets no rewards such as gifts, trips, loving cards and notes, etc. You discuss the kids, finances snd the house.

You must remain cordial snd friendly but none of the above. You need to move her out of her comfort in the status quo snd complacency. She needs to know that there is the potential for you to exit this relationship if things don’t change. Otherwise, why should she act to change? She has no incentive, because nothing in her life is at risk.

As long as she knows you’re not going anywhere, or plan to do anything other than express your feelings snd displeasure, she will not be incentivized to change. We know this because this is what is occurring right now.

Also: get to the gym, buy new clothes, change your hair style, buy cologne if you’ve never used it or change your cologne if you do. Go out with colleagues after work snd with your friends after work and on weekends. Make yourselves scarce in the house except for spending the necessary time with your kids. Join clubs, pursue hobbies or get new hobbies. Get away from your house snd your WW. No going out for coffee or lunch or dinner with couples. She can go to a couples dinner or a party by herself.

Bottom line is that you need to shake things up in a dramatic way, not gradually, but now! Your WW needs to see this dramatic change in a big way now!

Sorry, sounds like it is 3 years past time to leave permanently.

atomic_mess, let me get this straight : you have never been cheated on, you've been participating since February, and one of your last posts is encouraging a WS to patch things up with her BH. But yeah sure, you're positive I should leave right now. Well, thanks for the comment, I guess.

Hi Jack. I'm about 11 years into r and its still painful with triggers, and my wife has been basically perfect by any standard here. I can't tell you what the best option is, but I can tell you that r can mean feeling as bad as you do right now off and on indefinitely, even under perfect circumstances. Factor that into whatever decision you make.

Hey guys,

A little update here...

It has been a few months now and I wouldn't say things have really changed with her, when I read my posts here and the journal I've started keeping 6 months ago. On my side I'm working out, I joined a charity and I enrolled as a volunteer firefighter, and I love to take my mind off my couple and off the A.

Actually the few days of training I already did there were the first in three years where I didn't think about the A once in a whole day, and that felt so great !

Regarding my marriage : well our first anniversary is in 10 days... They say love lasts 3 years, and I'm getting the feeling that it also applies to the new couple that we formed after the A (we're almost 3 years away from DDAY). There is little to no passion anymore, or at least from what my guts are telling me. As I'm concentrating on what I'm feeling rather than on what she's doing, I'm beginning to see the whole picture, and I'm thinking that maybe I'm just in love with the mental picture I have from her, but that this person doesn't really exist. I don't know if anybody felt that or if I'm explaining it correctly.

She's never constant in the way she loves. I've read narcissists and toxic persons do that, they blow hot and cold, they can give you affection one day, and be very distant just a few hours later. I may be moody myself, but I have always been affectionate.

I have the feeling she's unable to give the level of love and affection that I need, as she's not (and never has been) a very affectionate person, even with our kids. Sure when you listen to her, she's a very empathetic, a very sensible, a very romantic person ! But all of this seems to be going on in her head. From the outside looking in, she's a self-centered, egotistic, narcissic woman in her late 40's. Sure, she didnt receive love from her parents (her father never even said "I love you" to her), so she may be really handicapped when it comes to showing how she feels. Well, that's the story she told the therapist, it could very well be true, and I would buy it, if I hadn't read all her exchanges with her AP during the endless 6 months of her EA+PA.

I'm starting to feel resentment, and I really don't want to be that person. There's so much going on in my life right now I just don't feel this is a good time to consider D...

[This message edited by iamjack at 8:33 AM, Thursday, July 6th]

On a completely different note, it came to my attention that the exAP (a coward, helpless loser) found himself another girl just a year after DDAY, and has been living with her since. Unfortunately for the poor girl who seems madly in love with him, she's got a very aggressive cancer relapse, and struggling really hard now. Even if I wouldn't care if he was dead, I can't help but feeling really sad for her, thinking not only she's severely ill, but she's with the worst possible guy she could find. But I'm thinking maybe now he has the chance to really be a man, and grow some balls, at last, to help her in the hard times she's going through. Who knows, maybe he'll even learn something ?

[This message edited by iamjack at 8:49 AM, Thursday, July 6th]

It's good that you're having moments of respite. Those can be refreshing. Are you still in IC? You're probably making more progress than you realize.
It's unfortunate, however, that your FWW seems to not grasp the enormity of what she's done. I can sympathize with your feelings about how she reacted toward her POSOM versus the way she acts toward you. While D isn't what you want, you know you can always file and then walk it back. Not as a means to manipulate her, but to take control of the situation and begin moving toward your healing. As you learned from your volunteer work, the A doesn't have to define you. Being in a marriage with what appears to be an unrepentant, spoiled abuser isn't healthy.
Also, how are you able to track the AP's current status? I agree that the poor woman he's with is in for a lot of grief in her future. He likely doesn't have it in him to actually take care of her.

1994

It's good that you're having moments of respite. Those can be refreshing. Are you still in IC? You're probably making more progress than you realize.
It's unfortunate, however, that your FWW seems to not grasp the enormity of what she's done. I can sympathize with your feelings about how she reacted toward her POSOM versus the way she acts toward you. While D isn't what you want, you know you can always file and then walk it back. Not as a means to manipulate her, but to take control of the situation and begin moving toward your healing. As you learned from your volunteer work, the A doesn't have to define you. Being in a marriage with what appears to be an unrepentant, spoiled abuser isn't healthy.
Also, how are you able to track the AP's current status? I agree that the poor woman he's with is in for a lot of grief in her future. He likely doesn't have it in him to actually take care of her.

Thank you for your words. You're right, the A doesn't define who I am. I may have been considering myself as a cuck for too long now. Kicking her from the center of my attention helps a lot.
Well, as for the AP's status this wasn't hard, his new GF posts her entire life on Facebook, in public posts. She seems to have no sense of privacy and will post just about anything in public. She seems like a very nice, but very naive person. I'm just sorry she stumbled on this POS, but well that's her choice.

Bump per request

Hi folks. I wanted to add a quick follow up to my original post.

We had a lot of ups and downs, but we're still together. However, I really get the feeling that after the 3 years of attempted R, my WS came back to her good old habits, just like before.

Of course by habits I don't mean cheating, but she got back just the way she was before the adultery : distant, always tired, sleeping a lot (and I mean just SLEEPING) moody (VERY moody), very short on expression of affection, physically. Sex-wise (sorry if that's TMI) we were on what I think is a good, average sex life, with 2 to 3 intercourses a week the first year after the A. It quickly went to 2 to 1 a week the year after and... guess what... we're now at 1 to 0 a week, sometimes 1 every two weeks and she feels completely fine with it.

But that's not what still bothers me the most here. I could have dealed with the lack of sex and affection (well I had dealed with that for 10 years before she chose to fuck her AP for 6 months) but knowing what I know now, knowing the gruesome details of everything she did, of everything she actively asked for with another man, I can't help but get the feeling the deal I had with this R is a really bad one.

She's in a better position in every aspect now than how she was before she cheated on me. It's like the A was good for her.

I'm still struggling not to think about it every day (I think of the A at least twice a day since DDAY) while she had 6 months of crazy sex, fun and excitement, and then got to keep her couple, with a husband who worked on himself a lot. She know what she did was shit. She's remorseful, no doubt. But she says a lot "you always pay one way or the other when you do bad shit, that's karma". To what I'm thinking : does she really think she payed for what she did ? Sure she cried a lot, sure she had to work on herself in IC and all that, but apart from that, did she really pay ? How ?

I can't accept I will never have what the AP had with her. I just can't. She doesn't seem to be willing to offer me that (the intimate moments in unusual locations, outdoors for instance). I know they had sex in pools, cars, woods, fields, possibly restrooms... We NEVER had that in 20 years. We stil didn't. How come ? We had a lot of discussions on it together or during MC sessions, but it seems nothing changed. She never arranged for this with me, and when I did arranged some moments with her, she wasnt in the mood (as I already mentionned, even during our honeymoon...)

I'm lost here. I know that I would be better off alone, but I'm thinking of my kids and my heart breaks to imagine I will have to see them every other week. Oh, sure, my WS isn't a monster either, most of the time she's nice. But I don't feel loved. At all. She says she loves me, a lot. But as for a lot of BS here, her words don't mean shit to me now. I still don't FEEL loved.

For the moment I'm just focusing on Christmas for my girls. Merry Christmas to you folks !

[This message edited by iamjack at 5:00 PM, Sunday, December 24th]

Read some folks trotting out the usual, don't worry, affair sex is just a fantasy blah blah blah. Sometimes the truth is the truth. She met someone, she wasn't forced, she had a good time and that is that.

She wasn't that into you before and now her life and lifestyle is safe again, she's back to normal.

Up to you whether you keep accepting crumbs while you know she feasted and got her fill. Why waste your life and time and not find someone who is into you as well?

Bumped for OP

knowing what I know now, knowing the gruesome details of everything she did, of everything she actively asked for with another man, I can't help but get the feeling the deal I had with this R is a really bad one.

She's in a better position in every aspect now than how she was before she cheated on me. It's like the A was good for her.

This deal can always be renegotiated. She did that when she renegotiated her marital vows when she had the affair.

I said this before, she treats you the way she does because you don’t demand more. No sex on your honeymoon, no passion like she had with her lover, etc. Why should she? She cheated and the repercussions were you married her, treated her like a queen, and gave her children. You are correct, the A was a great deal for her.

It’s time you demand a great deal for you, but sadly I think your fear of losing her won’t permit you to do that.

This thread happened around my d-day 2 timeframe, I missed it happening in real time. It’s too bad cause I resonate with it a lot. My wife being sexually reserved, cutting loose in some ways during the A, and coming back largely to her old ways in R. I’m about a year and half from D-day, things have begun getting better, but this remains to me the single biggest threat to our marriage. And I fully relate to the dilemma: imagine that pretty much everything about life is going well (relationship, kids, money) but this is a thorn in the side. It’s a hell of a thorn.

I completely agree with all that has been said about not coercing or pleading, but if she just doesn’t have those feelings for me, I don’t believe I can live with that. And I’ve been patient as hell in letting us get re-settled, but it’s the next issue on the docket in my mind. Thanks for having this level headed discussion. Best of luck to you in your journey.

I am guessing I am older than you Iamjack. All I can offer from my experience is that things like this don't change unless you take action. Inertia can be a bitch to overcome, but it can be done.

Merry Christmas