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Newest Member: bluecoaster

I Can Relate :
BS Questions for WS - Part 15

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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 1:35 PM on Sunday, October 15th, 2023

loastandconfused90

You’re trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. You’re absolutely correct when you say your wh was a coward. All WS are. We could have done any number of things aside from having an A. We could have talk about it. We could have asked for counseling. We could have left. Sure those avenues would have caused pain and been potentially unpleasant but it wouldn’t have involved betrayal.

If nothing else, please understand that this really doesn’t have anything to do with you. You could have had the body of a goddess, the sexual appetite of a porn star and told your wh he was Gods gift to mankind and he still would have cheated.

Me -FWS

posts: 2096   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8811741
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 1:41 PM on Sunday, October 15th, 2023

fhtshop

Now I don’t know if the same thing applies for women, but I’ve never thought of my AP while having sex with my wife.

My AP gives world class head and is a great kisser. But I find any images of her doing that to be revolting. I cannot separate the act from the who, what & where. It’s a reminder of one of the shittiest things I’ve ever done in my life and not something I care to remember.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 2:14 AM, Monday, October 16th]

Me -FWS

posts: 2096   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8811742
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lostandconfused90 ( member #83985) posted at 10:01 PM on Sunday, October 15th, 2023

Ff4152,

I did ask him to do counselling together when I first found out about the A and he was very reluctant and now I know why. Just boggles my brain now you can put all of that effort into an A but nothing into your LTR to try and save it before it was too late. Guess I will never really know.

He said he doesn’t know what he was thinking and that he clearly wasn’t thinking straight at all but, he didn’t know he didn’t love me for 6 months he’s just realised it? Right…

I know it’s not my fault and it’s all about something in him but, if he’s not willing to visit that and sit with it then, that’s on him.

posts: 54   ·   registered: Oct. 10th, 2023   ·   location: London
id 8811768
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Howcthappen ( member #80775) posted at 4:40 AM on Monday, October 16th, 2023

Was it something I said? I noticed that my last questions to the WS here didn’t get addressed. I realize one may have been counterproductive but my following one was not. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Did I do something wrong?

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 186   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8811777
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Ihatelying ( member #82420) posted at 1:49 PM on Monday, October 16th, 2023

My question is for WS’s. Any of you have a porn addiction or have recovered from one? I have questions if you are willing to answer them.

Ihatelying

posts: 107   ·   registered: Nov. 18th, 2022
id 8811806
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 3:31 PM on Monday, October 16th, 2023

HowCtHappen

I did not find either one upsetting. i did not answer because I cannot relate to either question you posted. I don’t think there are many WS who monitor this forum so please don’t take it personally if someone doesn’t reply to a question or two.

Me -FWS

posts: 2096   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8811823
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 5:21 PM on Wednesday, October 18th, 2023

How that happen-

I think it’s more what Ft said we aren’t always on. I get busy with life and sometimes just don’t come in as often as I used to.

I don’t relate to your question exactly. I didn’t do anything during the affair that was intentionally malicious (other than the affair itself) I had guilt around what I was doing and I was actually probably nicer in some ways. I was a bit crazy emotionally being up and down, but that’s about as far as I can go.

I think for us, he has been given a lot of insight into my internal world since my affair and while when we were four years out he may have felt some of what you are saying. It takes a long time to heal from being cheated on. There isn’t one magic bullet that leads you away from that. It’s a lot of communication and deconstructing and demonstrating personal growth.

I am sorry no one answered you but I don’t think you could ask a wrong question. It’s not inappropriate to restate it so that it doesn’t get lost either.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:05 AM, Thursday, October 19th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 6725   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8812006
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Howcthappen ( member #80775) posted at 10:26 PM on Wednesday, October 18th, 2023

Thanks so much for responding both of you.

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 186   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8812039
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Stillconfused2022 ( member #82457) posted at 7:59 AM on Thursday, October 19th, 2023

Did you ever think your BS might be trying to manipulate by seeming sad or fear they were trying to make you feel guilty? Were there any times that you found it really problematic for the BS to bring up the A?

posts: 323   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8812067
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 6:00 AM on Friday, October 20th, 2023

Did you ever think your BS might be trying to manipulate by seeming sad or fear they were trying to make you feel guilty? Were there any times that you found it really problematic for the BS to bring up the A?

I did not feel my h was trying to manipulate or fake sadness. Someone who thinks that was is trying to turn things around on you. They are not accepting how bad what they did was.

I think back in the first year, it was hell and sometimes talking about the affair wore on me. I felt like we were in a loop in which we would never emerge. But it was a matter of working on myself to get past how I felt about it and embracing more how he felt about it. I wouldn’t say i blamed him or thought it was his fault. I just felt hopeless as he did at times.

It sounds like from the framing of your question that you are being shamed for having a normal
Reaction to being cheated on. Do not take that on and be shut down. This has to be fully worked through. Without setting a new foundation all you will do is stay and stuff your feelings and life is too short to live that way.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 6725   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8812166
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Howcthappen ( member #80775) posted at 12:58 PM on Friday, October 20th, 2023

Hiking out-

Do you think your husband’s affair helped you understand the devastation your initial betrayal caused him?

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 186   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8812172
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 6:04 AM on Tuesday, October 24th, 2023

Howcthathappen,

Hmmm.

I don’t think it fits quite that neatly for me.

One, it made me feel like he didn’t find infidelity to be that wrong. Some of the things he said seemed hollow. And in someways his lack of moral superiority at first felt oddly comforting, which I know how fucked up that is. The only thing that kept me working on myself was my own desire to be different and better because him doing that could have made it easy to say we are even. I didn’t take that route but I could see how that might happen.

Two, my affair was in a marriage that he believed was fine and happy. His was in the middle of a broken marriage that he tried for a year to revive. We in house separated for a few weeks. After that, I was better from my time in therapy and working hard but he was out of gas.

Three, it was very hard to move forward, it felt like we should just divorce. Not because I couldn’t take what I dished out but because the struggle was just longer and harder. I believed we were reconciling but he was so not on the same page. It just made the whole thing feel hopeless.

Four, the affairs were very different. His was in our home for 18 months. Mine was two months mostly held long distance. I knew his AP, she knew me. She was our employee. I confessed and n my own, I caught him. I am not professing that one affair is worse than another. Mine was first so it could be arguably worse. But it wasn’t apples to apples or interchangeable?

Five, I think what you are saying happened a little in reverse. He may have understood me a little more? And because I know what a load of crap affairs are, and the mindset, maybe I took it a bit less personally? I didn’t blame myself, I made him take accountability, and he lived in our rv for a while after his dday.

My advice is divorce above cheating. Nothing good comes of it, no one learns lessons unless they want to, and you can always hold your head high.

By the time he had his affair I had been so remorseful and tuned in to all the things that had hurt him. I do not think I needed him to cheat on me to see the pain I caused him. I have always been so self punishing, i just sort of saw his affair as further punishment which isn’t the best place to reconcile from. But I still don’t think it’s equivalent to what I did to him, but there is jo true way to weigh it.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 6725   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8812606
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SkipThumelue ( member #82934) posted at 3:44 PM on Tuesday, October 24th, 2023

Before Dday,
Did you ever plan a night out with your BS and take her to a place you planned your AP would be?

I often wonder to WS’s and APs get off on having the unknowing BS in the same space or picking up from what the BS thought was a work dinner but it was a AP dinner?

Howcthappen,

While that is something I never did, what my BW and I have done is "sanctify" places that I met with APs at. Restaurants, parks, bars, museums. We have gone to those places together to help dispel the bad juju that my horrible choices brought into our marriage.

I know it doesn't relate exactly to your question, but this has been something very important and meaningful for my BW that I have been happy and grateful to do.

WHDD: 5/2019Reconciling and extremely gratefulI do not accept PMs"The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself." - St. Augustine

posts: 116   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2023
id 8812635
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Copingmybest ( member #78962) posted at 9:35 AM on Sunday, October 29th, 2023

So here’s my question, concerning moral grounds, did you feel that cheating was morally wrong and that being faithful and keeping your vows were where you placed yourself before your A. Post affair, do you now see yourself realizing that you simply don’t believe in those values or at least know that you can’t live to those standards. I mean, obviously if you had an affair, you can think you held those values, but by cheating, you simply didn’t. Do you now hold those values in a new light, can you maintain those values, and hold true to them, and lastly, how do you communicate that those values now actually mean something to your BS. I hope this makes sense and I don’t mean to berate anyone, but my WW just can’t communicate this value system/belief of hers to me, so rebuilding of trust will never happen in our future.

posts: 176   ·   registered: Jun. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Midwest
id 8813320
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NeverWillAgain ( member #25007) posted at 2:45 PM on Monday, October 30th, 2023

Copingmybest - I can't answer all of your questions as I think each of us came to choose to have an affair for different reasons. I can say that yes, I knew it was not moral. It wasn't the only moral marital issue that my marriage had, so mine was more of a revenge affair. That said, looking backward 15 years, I wouldn't say for me it's about holding those values in a new light. It's about holding myself in a new light. I believe in myself, and therefore, do not need outside validation. Outside validation is a black hole. It can't be fulfilled and I found myself not caring about sex, but getting the fix. I don't find myself feeling vulnerable to attention. So, I don't feel the pull that I once did. It took me over a year of counseling, 3 different counselors to get to where I am now. I hope this helps you.

"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains. And we never even know we have the key."

posts: 531   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2009
id 8813414
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 4:06 PM on Monday, October 30th, 2023

Coping

did you feel that cheating was morally wrong and that being faithful and keeping your vows were where you placed yourself before your A. Post affair, do you now see yourself realizing that you simply don’t believe in those values or at least know that you can’t live to those standards.

Prior to my A, I always thought I was above that. I used to sneer at people who "couldn’t keep it in their pants". Now I know different.

I think it’s safe to say that 99.99% of WS knew what they were doing was wrong. I suppose what that means could be open for interpretation. I never stopped and got that detailed, I just knew it was something that crossed a HUGE line.

Here the thing though; regardless of whatever justifications we might have made, we simply didn’t care that must about the pain this would cause our partner/family. I was a textbook case for selfishness which is why I had the A.

Now? I cannot imagine a scenario where I would ever cheat again. I feel very comfortable saying that now. I see my wife for who she really is and not what I painted her to be in my mind.

Me -FWS

posts: 2096   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8813423
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:48 PM on Monday, October 30th, 2023

Something I've been trying to understand,and maybe someone here can help me.

I recently followed some red flags,and did a deep dive into my husband's phone,email,Google account, phone bill,etc. It took me weeks. I kept all of this to myself,because I didn't want to tip him off that I knew. I mean,I knew a few things, but I needed to see how deep his shit was.

The sneaking around..the digging into his phone after he went to bed..the endless phone numbers,and determining who they belonged to..all took a major physical toll on me, not to mention the emotional toll. Hiding this major thing from him made ME feel sneaky. Like I was doing something wrong. I knew it was necessary, but I felt awful.

How do you do it? How do you have an affair,and all that entails,and then come home and act as if you're not betraying your spouse and kids? How do you look your BS in the eye, after you've just had sex with someone else, and feel ok? I have to believe some of you felt ok,because many of you kept cheating.

How? How do you do that?

My question isn't meant to be harsh. I'm genuinely perplexed. I don't get it. I'm trying to understand.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:50 PM, Monday, October 30th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6353   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8813427
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Copingmybest ( member #78962) posted at 4:52 PM on Monday, October 30th, 2023

Thanks NWF and FF for responding. How were you able to express your methods or reasoning for never wanting to go down that route again to your BS’s, or were you even able to convey that message at all?

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 4:52 PM, Monday, October 30th]

posts: 176   ·   registered: Jun. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Midwest
id 8813428
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 8:19 PM on Monday, October 30th, 2023

Hellfire

How? How do you do that?

I suppose there are multiple ways to describe but I think compartmentalization and selfishness come closest.

I always had some guilt for what I was doing but I really felt that I deserved to be happy. The part of the psyche that prevents some from even considering an A really wasn’t present. For example, would it be fair to say that embracing the actual idea of having an A is alien to you? That it disgusts you? Well pre A, I told myself that I felt that way but it was just lip service. My boundaries were extremely shaky at best pre A.

Selfishness cannot be ignored either. It allowed me to go home every time after seeing my AP. I was owed this you see 🤮 and that’s all that really matters in the end. I worked hard and provided a good home, food, clothing etc. So who is she to complain if I do a little something to make myself happy? Total bullshit of course but that’s where my mind was.

PS I just wanted to say that I’m very sorry for what you’re going through.

Me -FWS

posts: 2096   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8813455
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cedarwoods ( member #82760) posted at 8:54 PM on Monday, October 30th, 2023

Many waywards talk about being selfish during their A. FF4152’s most recent response is a good example. Thank you for being so honest. I am sort of assuming that most waywards were/are selfish by nature which allowed them to cheat in the first place. So then, how does one become not selfish?

posts: 150   ·   registered: Jan. 20th, 2023   ·   location: USA
id 8813459
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