SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What you’re feeling is completely normal. 2 month affair is pretty average, meaning a lot longer than your wife would want to admit. Countless lies, decisions and actions. Damage for a lifetime. 9 months is the blink of an eye. She will need to sign up for years of your trauma. Years. Meanwhile your body is being flooded with cortisol every single day.

It's understandable for you to demand consistent honesty from your WS about their feelings and motivations, but I will venture the unpopular opinion that it is not always possible for the WS to provide it. Conventional wisdom often reduces a WS's cooperation to a zero sum equation. Either the WS still has their head up their ass, or they've pulled it out. They're telling the absolute truth, or they're being deliberately deceptive. But for many of us waywards, especially early on, it is not easy to know what we were/are feeling, let alone to be able to communicate it in a consistent and rational way. We have to sort through the rubble and figure out what was real and what wasn't in our own heads before we can deliver that analysis to our betrayed spouse.

When you read posts by experienced and remorseful waywards, it's important to remember that they have had time to do the work. In most cases, it's been years of time, years of IC and journaling and painful self-confrontation. Few of us achieved clarity immediately. Many of us lied to ourselves long before we told our first lie to our BS. We pretended that a growing connection was safe and appropriate. We invented justifications. We projected what we wanted to see on the AP and mirrored it back to them. And then when everything blew up, we reeled in shock and fear -- and yes, as hard as it is to hear it, sometimes in grief and loss. I am not asking you to feel sympathy for cheaters, just to consider that a brain in that condition may not be firing on all cylinders. We can't tell you the full truth of our emotions because we do not yet know what the truth is. We can't tell you why we did it because we don't know that, either. If we think we know right away, we're probably wrong.

Of course, some WS aren't grappling with these issues. They're too busy blame shifting, gaslighting, and covering their own ass to even consider why you have a right to the truth. But to me, your WW sounds like an authentic version of someone who is trying to do the work. She admits she had feelings for the AP. Some of them may have been genuinely based in friendship and attraction. Had they both been single, he might have been a prospect for a legitimate relationship, or he might have been nothing more than a warm body who fit the suit of shining armor. She has to evaluate her level of dopamine-fueled blindness, the kind that many people experience in new relationships. I've seen plenty of single friends argue that an obviously substandard partner is their perfect soulmate despite a parade of bright red flags. It can take a long time to admit that they've been trying to gild a turd. It's harder to do if the connection is severed suddenly and involuntarily instead of dragging out to a disappointing, inevitable collapse.

To make matters worse, the process isn't linear. Some revelations stick, while others just lead to another round of self doubt. Am I being honest, the wayward wonders, or am I just telling myself what I know I'm supposed to think? Was I rewriting history then, or am I rewriting it now? Either way, self-interest inevitably stirs the pot. It may be colored by guilt over an AP who is still pining, or by anger and embarrassment at being thrown under the bus.

All this is to say that your gut may be correct that this doesn't add up completely, but it doesn't have to mean that she's shining you on. Her perceptions of the A and the AP are evolving, and the memories shift slightly every time she pulls them back out and re-analyzes them. This is why polygraphers reject questions about emotions. Actions can be reviewed as true/false facts, but feelings will always be subjective.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 7:08 AM, Friday, February 4th]

biggest mistake of her life.

Not a mistake. An affair is a series of countless willful choices and actions. Think about the chain of decisions and actions it took to get to a kiss. Then think about the thousands of lies that accompanied merely that. Not a mistake.

The distinction is momentous and critical.

Essentially, she is still saying the problem was you. Is it any wonder you keep blaming yourself? She still has a very skewed perspective on the dynamic. The 'problem' was never just you. Your wife had just as much responsibility as you to maintain the health of the marriage, which includes saying something if she perceived a problem.

This bears repeating. She is still blame-shifting.

She's doing this judo move that many WSs pull - blaming problems on the BS that they created themselves. Writing my own timeline really helped me to understand this. As my W started to pursue validation outside of our marriage I sensed that she was pulling away from me and that began to weigh on me. Other life problems helped to turn that into a full blown depression. But she would later gaslight me into thinking that my depression led to her infidelity when she started pulling away long before that.

In fact, I responded to her drifting away by trying to do all the things she asked of me. She loved it. She was going to have all the cake she could eat.

Don't buy into that blame. Your WW cheated because of something broken within her. No one person living a real life can give enough love and attention to satisfy a person like that. Sooner or later they need more and go looking elsewhere. There is nothing you could have done to prevent that. Once she made the choice to start betraying you instead of seeking help from you or for herself, you were screwed.

P122

I’m sorry you are here dealing with the nightmare of infidelity. I’m hoping to shed some light on your question.

First affairs don’t "make sense". None of it.

Second your wife is trying and doing a good job. I had to remind myself for years - not to dwell on the affair and the past but focus on the fact my H was doing everything possible to repair and rebuild our life from the wreckage. Every. Damn. Day.

Third we all know how hard Reconciliation is and dealing with an affair is.

Think of the affair like this. You probably dated in the past. You meet someone. Things are great. The relationship goes along (months, years) and then it ends. It ends for a reason. You no longer like or love that person. You now see them in a different light. You see a side you never saw before.

That is what happens in affairs. You don’t see the ugly side DURING the affair or at the beginning stages. Everything is GREAT 👍🏻 (or so the cheaters believe).

Then the blinders come off. Reality sets in. The cheaters come out of the affair fog. The cheaters realize what a fool they have been.

My H had a typical mid life crisis affair. She was 20 years younger and he was convinced she was the best thing since sliced bread. He planned to D me. For 6 months he kept saying he wanted a D. I would agree to a D b/c what choice did I have? But then a few days later he would beg me to reconsider. He swore it was a mistake. He really didn’t want a D. Then he would demand a D a few days or weeks later.

Long story short he was being pressured into leaving me b/c the OW didn’t want to be the OW. when I finally told him I had enough of his lying cheating ways and I was D him — he still refused to leave. He suddenly didn’t want a D. I told him he was free to go and be with her. He no longer wanted a D. It was like dealing with a two year old who doesn’t like their dinner but doesn’t know what else they want for dinner

Reality set in. He knew it was infatuation he had with the OW. He knew he had made a terrible decision and was consumed by infatuation and believing in the fantasy of the affair.

He regrets it all. He truly does. We are 8 years from Dday and I can tell you that he truly wishes he could take it all back.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:27 AM, Friday, February 4th]

@grubs

I agree with the fantasy of being with him while she had the security of being with me. But i don't see how she could leave the house go and be with another man and then come back too me and our kids.

She would call him for an hour in the morning text him constantly through the day and then meet him every even for a couple of hours and then carry on texting him through the night. This was every day for 2 months. She admitted she had no intension of ending it with him. But sh says it would have ended because it couldn't go on for ever. She says she would never have left me. But I don't believe that.

Its like she is trying to make me feel better by lying.

She says that the affair was a mistake was worthless was even horrible. Everything she says about the affair is negative. Its like she is saying what she think I need her to say instead of the truth.

If it wasn't all that why would she continue to cheat and lie to me when she said she knew it was wrong.

She said she felt guilty. But why didn't she feel guilty enough? Why did she carry on? Why didn't she stop it if she did love me like she says. Because I don't think she loved me at the time of the affair not properly. How could she have?

Can you really love some one and cheat on them?

With regards to IC. Yeah I'm on my 4th session. Im not really sure its working. Im stuck and i feel stuck.

Im going around in circles and all I see is I have lost the person i love the most in the world and even though she hasn't left and she is still here i feel I'm pushing her away.

Hi. I don't really have anything constructive to add but I just wanted to say that the way you described about your feelings and how you can't stop thinking about everything is very relatable to me. I'm only about 4 weeks in after finding out and I honestly think that where you are right now would be me 8 months from now, should I decide to stay and R. At least you have already decided to take the first step. For me, I am still undecided..some days I think I can stay, other days I think it's way too hard to do this. Whatever it is, I just wanted to say that I can see you're already trying your best and for that, you should give yourself a pat on the back. Nobody deserves to be treated the way us BS do. Keep on fighting for your own happiness. Take care and good luck.

@ThisPainIsReal

Thanks for getting in touch.

Im really sorry to hear that your going through the same pain as many of us on this site. I remember what I was like after 4 weeks and one word of encouragement is that it does get better. Time really is a healer.

My advice to you at the 4 week stage would be not to make any harsh decisions. Everything will still be raw. But remember your in control and you can stay or you can go and you can change your mind as many times as you want. Just give yourself time.

I hope things work out for you. But if you ever need any advice or just want to vent just get in touch.

Take care of yourself.

She understands I'm hurting and need to talk about it, but she does say that we also need to at least try and start putting this behind us to start to try and rebuild our life.

She's already saying this only 9 months out? If she wants to be R material, she needs to be ready for this process to go on for years, and the AP will be a more or less permanent plus one in the marriage.

@Butforthegrace

I agree

It feels like she wants to silence me and to move past this as quickly as possible.

It feels like she wanted to have some fun with some one else, she left our relationship and then now has come back after doing what she did expecting me to shut up and move one and get over it.

Move past, get over it, get on. Whatever. None of these are acceptable responses from a WS. Not one. Especially 9 months out.

The trauma lasts for a lifetime (although diminished after about 5 years) and it will be a permanent fixture of a new marriage with your WW.

Doesn’t sound like she is ready to sign up for that.

Read the book "Cheating in a Nutshell" to understand what you’re enduring now. The book isn’t very favorable to reconciliation, but it is real and thoroughly researched.

Also has your wife read Linda MacDonald’s book? "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair."

Finally there is a resource for what wayward spouses should expect from their faithful spouses for a very long time. It is pinned at the top of the wayward forum.

I don't see how she could leave the house go and be with another man and then come back too me and our kids.

It’s called "compartmentalization" - look it up. Easiest example is public safety workers (fire, police, ER drs/nurses/staff, etc) in that their brains have to find a way to not bring the horrific things they see/experience at work into their day-to-day (or personal) lives. Compartmentalization is not an excuse for an A. It’s a technical explanation for how a WS can purge their guilt/shame in order to carry on both the A AND their M.

And that technical explanation does not (or did not for me) help one effing bit with all the feelings of invisibility, abandonment, etc that a BS may experience.

IMO, the "how can they" x or y or z (ranging from sleeping with their AP and then sleeping with their BS hours later to texting AP during family dinner, with a TON of crap in between) that can pretty well haunt us for months after dday may be a way for our brains to try and process the bigger question of WHO IS MY SPOUSE? It’s reconciling the person we thought they were, with the person their actions have shown them to be. It’s a mind f*ck for sure.

Also, as a to the "we need to focus on the future" - that crap needs to leave her vocabulary, in a forever kind of way. Hopefully she’ll get there (and HOPEFULLY there is not some IC or MC or podcast or whatever reinforcing it). First of all, this is a YEARS long endeavor. YOU need to focus on healing you, and it takes the dreaded four letter T-I-M-E. If she’s not up for that, you two may want to rethink whether a commitment to R is appropriate at this juncture. it is NOT uncommon - at all - for a BS in successful R to have issues come up years/decades later. It’s a frigging TRAUMA. We don’t tell combat vets with PTSD that they need to stop having triggers on July 4… we THANK them for their service and ask what we can to to help and support them through those kind of triggering events, whether the combat they saw was 5 or 50 years earlier. Likewise, a WS who is doing their work, finding/found remorse, and committed to R, will THANK the BS for committing to R, and then offer whatever help / support they can. IMO, it’s how everyone should treat those upon whom our actions have foisted harm (whether infidelity or just being a shitty person sometimes).

I think others touched on this as well, but there is NOTHING about her AP that is "better" or otherwise diminishes your value. Generally, it’s about how the wayward feels from the A, rather than the AP him/herself. It takes a lot of time/effort for some BS (starting with myself) to get that through our noggins. We can spend a lot of time & energy focusing on how much "better" we are than an AP, starting with the moral high road, and leading all kinds of places hither & yon. And, at least IME, it doesn’t really get to the meat of things, of what the WS "got" from the A that allowed them to cross the line.

A WS didn’t embark on the A bc of who the AP is… they do it bc of how the AP makes them feel about THEMSELVES. It’s a truly selfish act, cloaked in projection upon the AP (and I believe that is mutual for both the WS and AP - who may have their own BS). The AP could have been ANYONE (fat or skinny, rich or poor, pleasant or a jerk, a PhD or a physical laborer, etc) who made the WS feel something(s) they wanted to feel (wanted, visible, powerful, sexy, etc). I think we BS really want to rationalize the A as happening bc of something special (or better) about the AP, so that we don’t have to really reconcile that ‘who is my spouse’ piece, and think that so long as that nasty AP is out of our lives, we are with safe partners. The thing is, it’s not as if the A would not have happened “but for” the AP. Rather, the A would not have happened “but for” the WS making the conscious CHOICE to do so.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 5:06 PM, Friday, February 4th]

She could easily be with her AP as he is single, but she says he means nothing to her and if I was to leave she would stop me but if we were to split she would never end up with him as he really isn't what she wants. If it wasn't all that why would she continue to cheat and lie to me when she said she knew it was wrong.

That's probably pretty honest. From your words she dropped him like a hot potato and choose you. APs are seldom good choices as partners. They are willing to go after a married person and blow up that family which makes them a bad choice for anyone valuing a happy family. If he was better than you, the A wouldn't have happened.

She said she felt guilty. But why didn't she feel guilty enough? Why did she carry on? Why didn't she stop it if she did love me like she says. Because I don't think she loved me at the time of the affair not properly. How could she have?

Many affairs aren't like dumping a frog into a pan of boiling water. They're more like putting a frog in cold water and slowing raising the temperature. One bent boundary, after another, until they are they get to the torrid level.

Can you really love some one and cheat on them?

WE tend to think of love as a verb not a noun. You love someone by showing them in actions. So no she wasn't in love with you then. That doesn't mean she was in love with AP either. Going home to you every night wasn't very loving either. She was likely only in love with herself.

[This message edited by grubs at 11:14 PM, Friday, February 4th]

This thread has taken on a life a little different than the original question (which is fine), but to answer the original question:

Q. "When is the truth really the truth?"
A. Almost never!!

How could she be happy. How can she look back on her affair as her being happy when she has made people so sad. Our family is in pieces and she holds on to he made her happy.

How did you find out and what was Dday like ? did she keep denying until presented with undeniable proof ? Also have you exposed the A with all family and close friends yet ? Full exposure typically kills the "beautiful, exciting and romantic" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates the A the more she will hate AP, consequences to her huge betrayal help with remorse and remorse typically makes a repeat less likely.

Based on what you've posted I bet she's lying, a two month long A with frequent access and the level of limerance you have described is not likely involve sex "just once", your gut is screaming at you, the "I only had sex once" is at the very top of lies cheaters tell, you should have her write a full timeline of the A and follow up with a polygraph. Did she get tested for STDs/STIs (you should too)? yes she was playing russian roulette with your health and during a pandemic no less.

@Buster123

DDay come when we were bickering after her having a drink late one night. I asked 3 times if there was some one else and she replied with no each time. Until I asked her to swear. Then she admitted that there was and then it came out.

I always believe she was leaving me that day until she seen the way our kids reacted when I told them. Even after the children knowing she seemed different, confused like she was missing him and what she had. She denies this, but I don't believe a word.

How can she turn her feelings off after 2 months? She seen him for a couple of hours each night spent hours on the phone in the morning talking, texting through out the day and throughout the night. She admits to even telling him she misses him while sitting next to me.

She now says the affair is the biggest mistake of her life and she hates it all. How can that possibly be.

I just don't feel like I'm getting the truth. I think she wants to protect me from the truth. But i need the truth to move on. But all I get is I can tell you something if it didn't happen, or i cant tell you I feel like that if I don't.

Sometimes I do believe her but then I feel stupid for doing so.

I feel stuck

If he made her happy,she had feelings for him. She may not have feelings for him now,but clearly she did during the affair.

I think you should trust your gut. Get the polygraph.

The advice Hell Fire gave you is all you need. No one responding to you can give you anything but OPINIONS. She is saying the right words but apparently you are not convinced. Your other thread stated that when you asked her to stop the affair and cut contact her response was " If you want me to"/ Hardly reassuring!

If I were you the things I would want to confirm are
(1) has she had any contact with him , regardless of who initiated it that she has not told you about since D Day or what you call latest d Day
(2) are there any electronic devices or apps still active or has she opened any new once.

You need facts, not words or opinions. The polygraph will be a tool in your toolbox. My WW took one at her own insistance as well as mine and when she passed all the questions I felt better. Your only other option, which to some extent you will have to eventually do if you want R, is to accept when it is time to try to move on from this. The only other alternative is D.

Her willingness to take the test should also be a positive thing. If she is hiding anything, she will resemble Casper the Ghost when you demand it.

Good luck.

I am 8 years out. I remember I had to know the truth. I did the investigative work. Poured over cell phone records. Grabbed appointment books. Dumped data out of cell phones and ipads. Checked histories. Had her make up a timeline. Cross checked that with mine . And still I had questions. And more questions. And more questions. There was no peace from it. But for me the reality is I was not there,I don’t know what really happened, I was not a witness. I know what I am told, I know the evidence in front of me. And like a plane crash with no survivors you have to piece together what happened. At some point you will come to some sort of acceptance. And the silent agreement between you and your spouse gets made. But it is always there. And even years later when it gets brought up you will run what they say against what you know. Infidelity is a shitty thing.Sorry you got brought into the club. But it will make you stronger and it will make you resilient. Other peoples shitty choices don’t define you. Take this time to rebuild yourself. We don’t get many opportunities to do that in our life. I got back into weight lifting. I began to meditate. I tried new things. Give yourself some time each day to deal with the infidelity then try to do something else. It’s hard at first. The PTSD consumes you. But look up grounding techniques, fight it off. It takes a lot of time and effort but you will feel better. I know at the time I thought it would never end. I would have done anything to stop thinking about it. I am a ruminator so I got stuck in a cycle. Good for awhile then a huge barrage of questions and then answers then more questions. Then cycle would repeat. The crappy part of it is you have to take control of your mental health. Ya you didn’t do anything but the actions of others have now caused a great blow to your mental health.And you will need to deal with it. I spent hours on these sights and many others trying to understand what was happening to me and what the hell was wrong with my wife. Getting out of the grips of infidelity is a process. There are no quick fixes no magic pills. Just time and effort.

Sorry for your trauma. Your pain is completely natural... you are in a place every BS finds themselves. Here are a few things to consider, many if not all already mentioned by others:

1) your WW is trying to help you, which is a good sign. Of course she wants to move past it but she is not really rugsweeping. Have you two read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair and Not Just Friends? Two strong book recommendations that might help

2) is she getting counseling to help her understand her inner weaknesses that led to her deciding to lower her boundaries and engage with another man? You are asking "how could she do this?" She needs to be asking the same questions and finding the answers. It will help her but also help you feel better about the future and help give R a better chance at success.

3) except maybe for a drunken ONS, all WS get infatuated with their AP. Some more than others. Otherwise, they would not betray you. She has admitted this. She sounds like she compartmentalized the affair. This is commonplace and when that happens it means it was not an exit affair, it was a second fantasy life. Very, very common to do this and also not plan to leave the BS. Don't doubt this was true, it happens and is all over the place in stories here at SI. The fact that she was infatuated with him but never planned to leave you is entirely plausible and actually very common in affairs.

4) Affairs release brain chemicals that are addictive. Just like a drug. This is proven and explains part of the reason a WW could betray you. Once people step across boundaries and get the ego kibbles they are craving, it hits like a drug. I have to believe some people are more susceptible than others to this response. The drug impact not only keeps them going back, it also is part of the confusion. The fog, it overrides their judgement.

5) once that drug like effect is taken away, the brain gradually clears and a WW may see the experience for what it really was. Your WW has gotten there, thankfully. This, combined with seeing your pain, makes the experience a terrible one to reflect on. Your WW is in that place and again, it's common. Don't second guess that... Waywards who develop remorse all express the same sentiment... that the affair was a terrible decision and in no way worth it. If you read here at SI you will see that this is how all remorseful WW reflect on their affairs. Imagine you went to a party and had a great time, including sex with a new woman. But on the way home you hit someone crossing the street and paralyzed them. I guarantee the memory of the sex at the great party would not be one you ever look back fondly on. It's the same thing for your WW.

6) Your ww really seems to have told you a lot about the affair. It appears you did not have proof and yet when confronted, she confessed. Far better than most situations here. I received a confession when I had no inkling and it helped me believe what I heard. In these situations, I think you may be getting more of the truth than many other BS. I do find it hard to believe they only had sex once if they saw each other almost daily and it is possible she is trying to minimjze the sexual component to "protect" your feelings. But her description of her feelings during the A seems very typical and highly plausible. Probably no need to doubt it.

Remember, you can always choose to D. R just may not work for you, even if you love her. But it does seem like you have a shot at successful R because she is trying to do her part.

Hi,
Married about the same amount of time and also had a two month affair. This was almost five years ago now.

I know it feels like you have been at this forever, but this is very early. You are right to have all your reservations. If I may point out:

- your wife has not changed yet. She maybe sorry for the affair, genuinely. But she is saying you didn’t give enough attention. That’s blaming you. The reality is she needs to dig way deeper than that. Is she in therapy? She is seeking her happiness and validation through other people. She needs to figure out what’s missing that she needs to do that.

Not only does she need others to get her good feelings, but she lacks integrity. That is not a temporary condition. She needs to recognize why it’s okay for her to break the rules when she isn’t getting what she wants.

She is lacking communication skills. Why was it easier to go out and blow up your marriage tha to tell you that you need to put more effort in your relationship? To sit down and figure out what she needs and to convey that to you? Are you a mind reader?

She likely has poor coping skills. Those start in development years, she should be able to pinpoint her patterns, where they come from and then work to break those patterns.

Of course she wants to move on. That’s what is comfortable for her. She doesn’t have full remorse yet because if she did she would recognize what she did to you isn’t going to clear itself in nine months. She is basically suggesting that you stop talking about it. Infidelity takes years to recover from.

I am not discrediting where she is at all - the signs are there that she wants to work with you to save the marriage, she has done some things right here. But she has not gone deep enough. I don’t think any of this is uncommon 9 months out.

She needs to keep working and I truly believe she can only do that if she is reading self help books, going to therapy, and truly looking deeper than she has to this point. You may decide that therapy is helpful for you too - affairs cause a lot of trauma that can be hard ti sort through on your own.

Take care of you and what you need and do not be afraid to look at your boundaries and to enforce them. Have a plan if this doesn’t work out so you have some fear taken out of the equation.

You don’t feel safe because you shouldn’t feel that yet. Trust takes a long time to rebuild and a lot of work on the ws side. She shows signs of wanting to do that and moves to execute it. Those are good signs but not the finish line. That’s far in the distance yet.