SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone! I need to get this out…

I was unsure of where I should post, general or here..it can go both ways.

I am triggered by my husband’s recent heart problem diagnosis. He has a congenital heart disease that was "repaired" in his youth, but time caught up and at his age of 68, there is a concern.

There is a surgical intervention that may help.

I remember clearly how during the year of his affair, he put me down, criticized me for my "little" health concerns. He also would criticize anyone who mentioned their health concerns. His mindset was one of "I am the healthy one, I am great compared to you all.."
To add, and I don’t even know if this is relevant, his ex AP was of the same mindset…

So with that in mind, I find it hard this morning to reconcile those past feelings with "empathy" for him. What I am thinking as I write this, is "well buddy boy, now you know what it feels like to be anxious and concerned about your health." It’s like payback time for him for all those hurtful snide comments from the past!

That is not how people who want to be kind to one another should think, right? He has been looking drawn lately and now we both understand why.

I will support him, of course, and be there for him. But I find it hard to feel empathy for his condition and his feelings.

Has anyone felt this way?

Oh girl. My husband has afib and I really had moments where I found myself curiously pondering what it would look like when he dies. I briefly felt sad, but honestly not for long, I’m a physician so I look at death a little bit differently than most people. I have DNR DNI orders because I know what it means when people "want everything done". It means we crack their chests with CPR and do things that really really really hurt badly. My WH wants everything done. I found myself gleefully thinking it would be painful for him, and really not feeling very much sympathy at all. In fact it was more of a "soooooo, you want everything done……… how’s THIS for everything?!?!? We can put tubes in holes you didn’t have until today."
😂😂😂

But my humor is dark and fucked up, and unfortunately, this is how I cope.
Short answer yes. I also think this is a uniquely female experience. We outlive our men usually. I don’t see many women remarrying after their spouse dies. (Why?!? I got 99 problems…..why add one more?!?!)

But here’s the truth. People who sucked in life continue to suck in death. There is no magical moment where they develop insight. They just get more hypoxic and you can medicate them enough to stop talking. So yay.

PS men after heart surgery….. smh. You might want to hire a home health nurse. Or maybe buy some cheese with that wine you’re gonna be getting. Immature people will continue to be immature when they’re sick. It gets worse, in fact. This will be awful and not a moment of growth for him. Good luck.

His mindset was one of "I am the healthy one, I am great compared to you all.."

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

I felt that way toward my BH at times. He would say assinine things like, "your flu can't be THAT bad" as I blacked out and collapsed on the sofa. Two days later, guess who got the same flu .

Anyway, now's probably not the time to address the resentment. I guess feeling empathy for someone who hasn't shown you any is not really possible, at least in my experience.

Has he expressed any remorse for how he treated you?

Again, I want to dispel the myth that insight comes on people’s death beds. Or rather, if it does, I’ve never seen it.

That shit gets Jerry Springer at the bedside. Just like birth.

Insight is not gained by moments of fear. People in fear and pain are in their animal brains, not their higher brains (if a WS can have those moments much, they seem to be few and far between. They didn’t cheat because they have insight and compassion.)

Lower your expectations. Lower. Loweeeer….. loooooower….. ok.

Notboring- I’m sorry you are struggling here.

I’m not in R, but can totally relate. And if you simply wanted to vent- I hear ya loud & clear! My WH also has some bizarre sense of health judgment and superiority. It’s like being ill or- maybe more apropo - needing help, is wholly unacceptable. So, when I was I’ll or needed help, he got the double yippee! of judging me, feeling superior (bc HE doesn’t get sick) and (bonus!) playing KISA. Sheesh. Personally, I think it’s some kind of protection from shame & self loathing, but what do I know🤷‍♀️

Maybe also consider/ ponder old resentments? Sounds like MAYBE there’s some cobwebs there? Also sounds understandable, as it’s painful to have your spouse judge/criticize and MINIMIZE your concerns (and they are always valid- a hangnail is valid if it’s bothering YOU)

Also, empathy is up to us. No one else dictates that but us.

I guess feeling empathy for someone who hasn't shown you any is not really possible, at least in my experience.

I could not disagree more. We can choose to have/express empathy …. Or not.

My WH is a wayward and a liar and behaved like a horse’s arse on many levels. Harmed me and traumatized me in more ways than I can count. I have EVERY reason to treat him with disdain, devoid of empathy or even basic kindnesses. That’s always a valid choice I can make. And sometimes I DO make that choice.

Likewise, having/showing compassion and empathy is also a valid choice I can make. Not necessarily "for" or "because of" or even to help HIM. But to align myself and my integrity and have my behaviors align with my values. To get the positive benefits of loving myself enough to have empathy and compassion for others, provided doing so does not harm me (ie so long as it doesn’t mean losing my own oxygen mask).

If someone had asked me five years ago what I thought of the concept of "turn the other cheek", I’d have said something along the lines of: yeah, sure, WHATEVER (and then quietly judged those who practiced such silly stuff). Obviously, my thoughts/feelings in this vein have changed - A LOT!

I can feel empathy and keep boundaries that protect me from getting hoovered into someone else’s stuff. Sometimes my bandwidth is limited….. maybe I can muster kindness, but not sympathy. Or sympathy, but not empathy. Or empathy, but not compassion (ie turning empathy into action). That’s ok. It’s when I choose something not even up to kindness (ie anger or disdain or judgment) that I often later regret it… regret my choice to not align with my values.

I know it seems counterintuitive, cuz it sounds as if empathy is selfish- and maybe it is- at least in situations when it’s not our "go to" or immediate feeling? I guess the bottom line for me has been that finding my path to empathy, even in the crummiest of times, always seems to be a win. Off the top of my head, I “win”, because my actions align with values, I also may “win” because I’m forging connection, and I “win” because having / showing empathy often diffuses tense situations. AND - bonus! - the person to whom I am feeling/showing empathy also “wins” in whatever way they choose / are able to accept empathy (and let’s be real, there are times we can show all the empathy in the world and the other person just cannot get to a place to receive it… and when that happens, I do my best to bring executive brain in and let it show me that I’m ok, and my values are in alignment, and help me keep an eye on that oxygen mask).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 10:30 PM, Wednesday, February 2nd]

On the subject of forgiveness. Please stop beating yourself up. I have done this for five years. Talk about stress on the heart!

Adultery is a toxic transgression for a reason. It’s right up there with murder.

Forgiveness really doesn’t jive very well with the human species. Dogs forgive pretty much unconditionally. I read somewhere that blue whales do too.

Humans are smarter and we are sentient. It is a lot to ask of a sentient being to undergo the cognitive dissonance torture of unconditional forgiveness. We have core moral emotions prompted by a moral law. We have vivid memory. We understand that we understand.

Jesus was able to offer unconditional forgiveness: he had a dual nature. "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

I would say that for thinking sentient humans with the ability of metacognition and "knowing that we know" the concept of forebearance is a better fit.

Because unless we are lobotomized we can’t trick our brains into ignoring our intuitive moral emotions on the care/harm, betrayal/loyalty, and sanctity/degradation spectra.

Think of forebearance for your husband and see whether that enables a level of empathy.

Thank you all for hearing me out...

You all gave me good insights that I can relate to...yes there is venting. I am grateful for this site, so that I can vent and many members do get it!

Yes to immature people will continue to be immature when sick: I think that is in the back of my mind and from what I've see around me, it is not an easy life for both partners. Maybe this is my anxiety...living with a spouse that may revert to hurtful behaviours because of health issues and in the case of my husband, I have this inkling that he may just go on a "last hurrah before I die binge" with total disregard for me and his family: either travelling abroad, resuming contact with exAP, finding another partner, spending tons of money and drinking. This was his modus operandi during his affair. And sometimes the past can predict the future.

All hypothetical situations at this moment yet all possible unless his present heart condition limits him. We will find out in time.

Cobwebs, old resentments...yes I know what they are.

Kindness but not sympathy...could work for me.

Showing forbearance sounds possible. I never thought of it...I was more aligned with resilience and empathy as discussed in therapy, but forbearance nails it for me right now.

I am preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. 🙏

Not sure how relevant this is but as a BS my WS’s infidelity killed my empathy for him. But because I know that it’s not really who I am I fake it until I get it. I also know that if he died I’d feel stupid for every minute wasted not loving him.

I remember clearly how during the year of his affair, he put me down, criticized me for my "little" health concerns. He also would criticize anyone who mentioned their health concerns. His mindset was one of "I am the healthy one, I am great compared to you all.."

Did that superiority spill out to other aspects of his life? Or was it centered primarily around health? I'm curious because behavior traits like these tend to permeate throughout.

As for the empathy? I definitely can understand. In an odd way, the fallout from my WW's infidelity many years ago probably made it easier on me as she has gone through a heart transplant. Her condition was hereditary, and we knew 30 years ago that a transplant could be a real possibility. But I was young then(mid twenties), and it was easy for me to discard these concerns with immature thoughts--"I could get hit by a bus tomorrow"; "The medical world may have a cure by then"; etc.....it was easy to not deal with it.

Then we get older. We get more realistic. I start to think that "Hey, I might have to deal with this some day", and it gets more worrisome. Then the wife has an affair and rocks me to my core.

I am an empathetic guy. I do care greatly for my wife, as I am sure you do for your husband. But I do think that it would be beyond unrealistic if I didn't recognize that the affair has underlying symptoms that may never go away. I, without a doubt, feel that I would have been much more emotional, and probably less rational, if I never experienced infidelity. Once you feel that you need to guard your heart from the one you care about the most, it is very difficult to fully release that protection, and be as vulnerable as you were prior to infidelity. At least this has been my experience.

This is a very relevant topic as my WW (and sorry for the TMI) just started bleeding, "gushing blood" in her words, rectally. It has happened twice, both times when she was running. It sounded scary and she's got an appt to have it looked at.

jb3199

I, without a doubt, feel that I would have been much more emotional, and probably less rational, if I never experienced infidelity. Once you feel that you need to guard your heart from the one you care about the most, it is very difficult to fully release that protection, and be as vulnerable as you were prior to infidelity.

This is very elegantly said and I feel exactly the same way!

When she told me, she didn't seem scared but more concerned, so I got concerned. At the same time though, my mind briefly went to a place I have never been before, it was a strangle place where I was widowed, and I felt a strange sense of karma and justice having been served. I am kind of horrified that I thought this way and I thought "What is wrong with me?!?!?!" And it was the A, it really does bring about huge changes.

Notaboringwife
The way I look at it though is that if anyone in the marriage is going to be uncompassionate and non-empathetic, it isn't going to be me. Those are traits of a WS. Not me.

Thumos
I didn't want to jack this thread so I tried to send you a private message, but your inbox is full. FYI if you weren't aware...

I can feel empathy and keep boundaries that protect me from getting hoovered into someone else’s stuff. Sometimes my bandwidth is limited….. maybe I can muster kindness, but not sympathy. Or sympathy, but not empathy. Or empathy, but not compassion (ie turning empathy into action). That’s ok. It’s when I choose something not even up to kindness (ie anger or disdain or judgment) that I often later regret it… regret my choice to not align with my values.

Oooh, I really like that. Sometimes we've just got to give ourselves credit for doing what we can rather than what we think we should.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.
It would seem he has some crow to eat and his lack of doing so would piss me off too.

That being said there are many heart procedures that are minimally invasivenow and if he is ha ing one of those recovery is no more than the precautions that one has after a cardiac catheterization. That said if it is an invasive procedure you absolutely need to know what recovery looks like what time in the hospital and recovery is. What limits he will have. How long he will be out of work, understand what complications are possible and how it impacts the recovery. I would tell you this as nurse regardless of what he was having done.

Now as far as empathy I think I would sit him down and have a very open conversation about the hurt he caused and the trigger it is causing now. Then set expectations on what he can and cannot ask of you post procedure.

Make sure you take time to have some self care during all of this too.