SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bumped for Bulcy.

Very insightful post.

I hope to actually have a decent relationship with someone someday and I will keep all you have said in mind to improve myself until that time comes.

Thanks for bumping

What about some of these compiled and put in the healing library

Bump.

Bumped.

EvolvingSoul

Can you message me? I was hoping to get some insight from someone who 1. Is female 2. Has been thru this and might be willing to help another WS
Please and thank you

DaddyDom

Another great post
Thank you

As a BS, I have found this and other posts of yours so helpful. My WS is not on SI, but I have shared cut and pasted passages to help him find the mirror he needed to see his actions clearly.

Your honesty helps me feel that reconciliation is possible, and that we are both becoming better, more honest people through sorting out the pain his actions brought into our life.

Thank you. In the early days, the WS on SI said things that helped me understand my own WS.

Wonderfully written.

I could say the words, and in concept I knew it to be true, but in my heart, the old marriage still existed and I still wanted it back. I thought she really still loved me and that everything was going to be okay once some time had passed. I thought I could resurrect our marriage from the dead.

This is such a hard thing to wrap my head around, largely because of all of the shared history. That still happened. What happens to that shared history moving forward with what you describe as a new marriage? What does that feel like to you now?

There are so many ways we do know each other too. Yes--I know I am not the person he thought he knew. But that person is still the person I thought I was too, and so he was still the person who was closest to knowing me my whole life, and now is definitely the person who knows me as who I am has come to the surface.

On some level, whether I was willing or able to accept it or not, I had left my wife. I had betrayed her, I had betrayed myself, I had betrayed my family and most everyone I knew. And for reasons that were mine to figure out through hard work and determination, I had made that choice and acted on it. I did what I did on purpose, and absolutely knew what the consequences would be. When it came time to face those consequences however, I refused to accept them. At least, I tried to. I felt so damn sorry for myself that I did to myself exactly the same things that I did to my wife during the affair. I lied to myself, I gas-lighted myself, I tried to bargain with myself, anything, everything, to make myself feel better, because facing the reality of what I had done was simply too painful to feel. I had spent most of my life avoiding feeling pain, and I was an expert at going numb or going to pieces. I had no coping mechanisms that involved feeling the pain, dealing with the pain, or stepping up to the plate and being responsible for the pain or what caused it.

Oof. I feel this. Working on the coping mechanisms.

You need to be prepared to move forward WITHOUT your spouse, and more importantly, you need to be OKAY with this. Not because it is what you want now, but because it was what you wanted when you had your affair. Unfortunately, since you already made your choice, you now have to live with the consequences, and part of that means learning to accept moving forward alone, as a possible outcome. I am not saying to give up on R! Rather, I am saying that part of being able to be someone that your spouse or anyone else can ever love or trust or depend on, you must first be someone who loves themselves, who can carry their own weight in this world, and is worthy of being loved back.

I am really working hard to absorb this. That I HAVE to be a more whole person to be capable of being a good partner. Thank you for articulating it so well.

I spent years trying to manipulate her actions and decisions in order to achieve the outcome I wanted. The truth was, my behavior during R was in many ways the same as it was during the A. I was dictating what I wanted/needed from her and doing all I could to make it happen, she was just responding to my continued selfish behavior. Her actions were responses to my actions. I continued to be selfish, and so she continued to be hurt by that. As long as I continued to be selfish, she continued to be hurt, and pulled further away from me. I had no idea that I was still "driving the bus", and convinced myself that pulling away from me is what she wanted. All she really wanted was to stop hurting, and for me to stop being the one hurting her.

It is so hard when I want R so badly to not confuse fighting for that R to acting like I am entitled to it. This is also something I am trying to work on.

If you are not strong enough to make it on your own without the relationship, then you are not strong enough to be a partner in a relationship. A selfish person has no concept of self-sacrifice or empathy, and yet, these are things that a relationship is founded on.

Another great articulation of this idea. Thanks.

In order to have a marriage, a real marriage, you must be willing to accept that you must be a healthy individual in order to be a healthy partner. If the relationship is more important to you than your partner or yourself, then there is no relationship, because you are deriving your self-worth (and your partners worth) based on your happiness (or lack thereof) with what you are getting from, rather than giving to, your marriage. Love and trust are earned through giving. Your needs are your own to meet, as are your partners. Helping your partner to meet their needs is where love grows, however requiring your partner to help you meet your needs is where love dies. Meeting your needs at the expense of your partner is how love is murdered.

Thank you again for driving this home. Quoting these parts so I can reread them often.

This is such a hard thing to wrap my head around, largely because of all of the shared history. That still happened. What happens to that shared history moving forward with what you describe as a new marriage? What does that feel like to you now?

For me, I first had to get rid of a lot of "black and white" thinking. There are no "good" people and "bad" people. We are all capable of being both in different areas of our lives. For a moment, imagine someone you might know, a pillar of the community, who volunteers their time, donates to charity, rescues dogs, etc. Then imagine turning on the TV one day and seeing that same person being arrested for distributing child porn. What do you think now... is this a good person or a bad person? Because the good things they did were still good, even though they did a bad thing. And the bad thing they did is still really bad, even though they also did good things. Lastly, is the fact that they did those good things in any way, shape or form, a reason to excuse, justify, minimize or forget about the bad thing they did?

The truth is, we are what we do. During the affair, my days were filled with the need to lie, and hide, and deceive. I felt like a bad person, and justly so, because I was being a bad person. One of the bigger mistakes I made along the way was to start identifying myself as a bad person. If you are a "bad person", as opposed to "a person", then you have no hope, no path forward, because it is who you are at your core. But a person, by contrast, has choices, and makes choices based on their desired outcomes. If you no longer want to be a liar and cheater, then be an honest and trustworthy person. There is no one and nothing stopping you from never lying again, never cheating again. Everyday, I wake up, and ask myself who I want to be. And to some degree, who I do not want to be. And so I choose to tell the truth, always, and right away, even if it throws me under my own bus. That allows me to sleep at night, because I do not bear the burden of hiding lies. Honesty is like Ambien :) I choose to do something nice for someone else every day, and I do my best to do things that have no benefit to me (because it's important that we don't do nice things in order to manipulate others into loving us), such as holding a door open for someone, letting someone cut in ahead of me on the highway, allowing that person with one item to get ahead of me in line, or even just telling someone they have a nice smile. I do my best to live a life of integrity, honesty and dignity. Because that is how I live my life, that is how I see myself, and it how others tend to see me as well. That, my friend, is how you get out of the shame spiral.

So... back to your question. What does all that have to do with moving forward in your relationship? Well, the two have a lot in common. What I found to be super helpful to me was to view both my life, and our marriage, as a story. Stories have chapters. The heroine may be tempted to do the wrong thing in chapter 3, but by chapter 7, she's turned her life around. Our lives are the same. Your affair was chapter 3 of your life. You did the wrong thing, and sadly, you can't undo what's been done. While we cannot control the past at all, we have a lot of influence regarding the future. So, simply accept that Chapter 3 is only PART of your story. Now you are in a new chapter, and the other chapters haven't been written yet, so you get to write them.

Your marriage is the same. You were both in a different place before the A, during the A, and now after the A, and each of these is a different chapter. Undestand that chapter 3, "the marriage you thought you had", is over. So now, both and your spouse, get to write the new story together. Again, for me, it helped to think of this as starting from zero, as if we had never met, and you build a new relationship together, one based on what you now know about yourselves and what you want and don't want. No more "blind faith". No unconditional love. Rather, faith and love are something you build through openness, honesty, and empathy. You prove yourself as someone they CAN love, just as you did when you first get married. Just a little more based in reality this time. How this happens is up to you. But start by establishing who you both are and what you both want from the relationship. What does a good marriage moving forward look like to you? How do you ensure that communication flows? You two write your own story together moving forward. If there are things from previous chapters that still hold value to you, please feel free to bring them into the new relationship, and leave the things that didn't work behind.

Good luck to you. This is along, hard road, but the rewards are worth it.

What's the difference between fighting for the marriage and working toward reconciliation?

I don't want to be the kind of person who could betray someone they love so deeply ever again, so I'm willing to work on myself even if the relationship ends. I'd still finish writing the timeline he asked for and working on certain other things. But then, I'm not going to try to be cute for someone who doesn't want me, doesn't like me, and that I'm not trying to be involved with. Not fighting for the marriage, to me, would mean not working on how I can be a better partner specifically to this one person. I feel like what's being asked of me is to love without any expectation of being loved in return. That sounds so noble and selfless. I want to love my partner like that. I think that would be a beautiful gift. But I can't honestly say that's 100% where I am now. :(

Accepting the marriage is over is difficult for me. I know it conceptually, but I still hope we'll get over this and be better and stronger than before. Letting go of the relationship is something that I've been working on but it's so hard not to grasp at a relationship with someone you share a home and family and life with. I don't want to focus on being ok being alone when things are good between us, I want to enjoy the cuddles and love and keep working on things. How did you learn to be ok with being alone? I feel deeply this is something that I need to learn to be healthy and build integrity.

If the relationship is more important to you than your partner or yourself, then there is no relationship, because you are deriving your self-worth (and your partners worth) based on your happiness (or lack thereof) with what you are getting from, rather than giving to, your marriage.

Ohhh, that's a gut punch. It's what I was doing all throughout the relationship. My partner told me over and over again too and I thought he just didn't understand or wasn't as committed as me. Funny how I managed to see myself as both committed to the marriage and having an affair at the same time. I think this relates to my resistance to not wanting to let go of the marriage. The marriage fed my ego. I was a "good person" doing the "right thing" by giving my child a family. I saw myself as a "family person" and "wife". Now I have to figure out who I am and where my worth and validation come from without that.

Meeting your needs at the expense of your partner is how love is murdered.

I think my partner would agree.

Accepting the marriage is over is difficult for me. I know it conceptually, but I still hope we'll get over this and be better and stronger than before. Letting go of the relationship is something that I've been working on but it's so hard not to grasp at a relationship with someone you share a home and family and life with. I don't want to focus on being ok being alone when things are good between us, I want to enjoy the cuddles and love and keep working on things. How did you learn to be ok with being alone? I feel deeply this is something that I need to learn to be healthy and build integrity.

I've asked versions of this question here often, even as recently as today, haha. A recent resource that has been helpful for me is "Radical Acceptance" from DBT. Search for "DBT - Distress Tolerance - Radical Acceptance" from Dr. Jennifer May on YouTube.

A lot to take in. Thank you

What do you think now... is this a good person or a bad person? Because the good things they did were still good, even though they did a bad thing. And the bad thing they did is still really bad, even though they also did good things. Lastly, is the fact that they did those good things in any way, shape or form, a reason to excuse, justify, minimize or forget about the bad thing they did?

When I found out my husband's affair I said very similar things. I knew he had made a very very BAD, HURTFUL,VILE, INJUST, DISHONEST CHOICE but that did not hinder me from recognising he wasn't only the bad guy, he was capable of a lot better, he was still worthy of love, because deep inside him there was also the good person I fell in love with and loved deeply.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 4:11 PM, Wednesday, April 3rd]

Bump

It brought tears to my eyes. So much awareness but a few things I don't agree with.

LOVING YOURSELF does not need it be done BEFORE you get into a relationship because growing up, changing is a process and it can be done together, with someone who holds your hand and is patient and supports you. A relationship is a journey that allows you to change and become a better person.

Nobody is perfect and wanting to be "ready" to love is not useful. The relationship can help you bring the best out of you, if you want to.

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