SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There's much truth to this post. I can't remember if I ever responded to it, but I probably did. My STBXWW certainly affaired down. I think she did it because she was so deeply insecure about who she was. Rather than improve herself, she looked for a guy that she could feel superior to while at the same time fulfilling her desire for novelty and excitement. When the rose colored glasses came off, she spent a lot of time looking at her feet feeling sheepish about how foolish she was. I don't think she ever realized how adolescent and unattractive that made her.

When she told me who her AP was, I was both amused and repulsed. I found her choice laughable but at the same time, I was incredulous at her having destroyed so much for so little. But, that was my rational brain trying to look for reason. My bad.

Now, my STBXWW is dating a guy that I might be tempted to slip a $5 to if I found him sitting on the street. Nice guy, but now her dreamboat by any stretch. Oh, how the chickens have come home to roast (Typo intended). I'm certain that she is sooo broken up that her handsome millionaire never materialized for her. As for me, I'm both contented and at peace, a word that has become my solace.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 5:16 AM, Wednesday, February 23rd]

I also think I replied to this previously as a new BS.

This "affair down" article has appeared on the web on other sites in the past. I suppose it was meant to offer comfort to the BS at a time when vulnerability and hurt are present. A boost for their self-esteem of sorts. And for that initial shock, hurt, betrayal that a BS feels, the content of the post helps a lot to redeem the self-esteem that took such a violent hit.

Three years into re-uniting with my former WS, I have a different mindset about "honey, they always affair down". Removing my former BS glasses to look at my husband's affair and affair partner, I believe that he did not affair down.

He simply "affaired". Whether his affair was " down, up, sideways, diagonally" it makes no difference to me right now.

What I see is that "love is blind" for any AP attributes or lack of. It could be physical or personality or anything else. For sure, my husband was getting something important to him, out of his AP relationship. Why have such a LTA in the first place then abandon me with such indifference and callousness on D_day to live with her?

He was comfortable with her, he was happy with her, until he no longer was. He was comparing me with her. I know that because he told me so. Do I believe him, yes. And today it makes no difference. I do not take it to heart what he had with her.

What is important to me and I'd have to say even critical to my well-being, is what I think of myself.

This post helped me in the past, to see another perspective of an AP in general. But the only people who know more than me about the AP's character would be my husband and the AP herself.

Certainly not me. For the truth could very well be, in my case only, that she was and maybe still is, an interesting, loving, caring , lonely person who did engage with my husband. I accept that and am totally ok with it.

I came to BUMP this thread...but I read some of y'alls posts...and they are AWESOME !!!

Thank you!

By definition, they always affair down.

My wife's partner was short, bald, pock-faced, OxyContin junkie, uneducated, estranged from his daughters, manager of a third rate motel. It was shocking to have learned this, but ego-salvaging.

If one side is affairing down, then reasonably, both sides are. Which would suggest, following the "affair down" concept, every cheater is some BS's downsided affair partner to the whoever they were affairing with. If the AP was also affairing down, it means the BS married down. Which, given they married someone whose boundaries were so loose that they later became cheaters, seems like a "down" to me.

All cheaters are equal in their "down" metric. I am sure that the wife of my fWW's partner would say that her WH affaired down, as much as I might see my fWW having "affaired down". But, I don't. It is the cheater that is the "down" part of the equation, not who they cheated with. Who they cheated with is dust in the wind. It is the cheating spouse that the BS has to ultimately contend with. Thinking of your cheating spouses affair partner as "down" is, in my view, a distraction to what the real problem is. Which is the BS's cheating spouse, and how and what to do about them and ultimately the relationship. The WS is the down in the equation of moving forward. Their AP is just one more "down", but to me, less of a "down" than the WS is to the BS.

I think focus of the "affair down" concept it is just ways to feel less bad about what the WS did. In my view, there is no way to reduce the abuse that the betrayal caused to the BS by their WS, no matter how much "down" was a part of their affair partner choice. A WS is still as much of an asshole, no matter how up or down was their affairing. How that WS asshole does or does not own their shit and commit to healing their brokeness and making things right with their BS is the issue........not the "affair down" thingy.

Affair down, affair up. So what. It is the cheating and betrayal and the degree, or lack thereof from the WS cheater, that ultimately is the issue. Not the up or down AP thingy.

DIFM and Notaboringwife seems to have it right - they just do it, maybe to trade up, maybe to just trade, or?? Not our immeditae concern unless germane to R.

Just what I needed to read right now. My husband told me exactly all of the things stated in this post but I didn't believe them from him. Thanks for the encouragement.

My wife told me this trying to explain her affair with her AP. When your really hungry you will eat from a garbage bin. It helped me understand her thought process. But it didn’t get rid of the hurt. She also said if it wasn’t him it would have been someone else. She was broken. I asked our therapist why him? He said ‘Does it matter?’ Fools gold he said. They think they have something special but they don’t. If the guy had been rich and prominent would it have hurt less? No. The person doesn’t matter. They are simply a symptom of a big problem in your spouse and in your marriage. Both need to be addressed. Your left with stay or go. A decision you neither asked for or wanted but the funny thing is you now get a great chance to work on you. My brother in-law cheated on his wife. Left her for a women that in my opinion was greatly beneath her. She had a few hard years but now she’s a community leader, an active grandmother and a gem to be around.He is bed ridden from his poor choices in life. She grew from adversity. He shrivelled from immorality. Karma is a bitch isn’t it.

Bump.

A WS is still as much of an asshole, no matter how up or down was their affairing. How that WS asshole does or does not own their shit and commit to healing their brokeness and making things right with their BS is the issue........not the "affair down" thingy.

Affair down, affair up. So what. It is the cheating and betrayal and the degree, or lack thereof from the WS cheater, that ultimately is the issue. Not the up or down AP thingy.

Wish there was a way to up-vote this. I, too, have wrestled with whether it matters. In the end, she was never worthy of marriage with me. I'm far enough removed from her now that I can ruminate without the distraction of her in my grill. Her unworthiness was always there and I'm now peeling back memory after memory where I explained her unworthiness away with "but she's so great at blah, blah, blah."

Love will make you do crazy things.

Bump

I copied and saved this from quora a few weeks ago.

I thought it was well said.

Nobody ever "affairs up".

This means the AP is most likely way lower on the scale of moral integrity, conviction and positive character traits.

Maybe they’re more attractive, or they make more money.

But the fact is, most people "affair down" not up.

Look at it closely, is this person really better than the spouse?

Where is their maturity, loyalty, spirituality, integrity and other important character traits?

The mere fact that they’re willing to cheat with a married person shows their profound lack of character

[This message edited by DailyGratitude at 7:23 AM, Sunday, May 29th]

Nice post OP.

It was true for my mom, who cheated on my father long ago.

Yes, I'm biased, I love my father. He was and is a good man.

He provided well for us, my mom didn't work after she began having children.

We lived in new houses, in nice subdivisions, went on nice vacations, had all we needed plus much more. We were blessed.

My dad did a lot for us and my mother. He did so much for her family, for her parents, for others in her family too.

My dad bathed us three kids every night, not our mother.

My dad put us to be each night too, with our mother as it was a family thing, the dogs were in there too.

My dad did tons around the house, all the time even though he worked a lot and my mom stayed at home.

If my mom wanted it, she got it. If she wanted him to do something, he did it for her or with her, went there etc.

My dad is easy going, laid back, doesn't get his feathers ruffled, doesn't have a temper.

My dad did things though, he had a life. He played on company softball teams, on church league basketball teams, he played on men's flag football teams/leagues too.

My mom did things too, plenty of things. Many say things like stay at home mom's get burned out. Not my mom. She went to the gym daily and put us kids in the kids play place. She met girlfriends there. There was a juice bar there too so she'd go there after working out and hang out with her friends while us kids were being watched and playing in the play place.

While we were still too young for school, she put us in a mother's day out program and she'd get like 3 to 4 hours to herself while we were in that program and she'd go out with girlfriends shopping, out to lunch, to the spa etc.

Plenty of times she did both of things in the same day, meaning she wasn't watching us since we were in the play place at the gym for an hour or two and then we were at the mother's day out program for many hours.

She was also on committees at church and they met at night, after the work day as most worked. So she'd go like twice a week to church at night for those meetings.

There were days when she was a stay at home mom where she had like 6 or 7 hours without us those days, without having to watch us etc.

My dad coached little league and youth soccer and my mom wanted him to take my younger brother and me to his practices and my dad did even though it was hard for him to watch the two of us while he was trying to coach his team. But my mom wanted him to take us, so he did.

My mom's last affair partner had a really unfortunate thing happen to him. My dad knew him, grew up with him, they all went to high school together too.

My mom and dad went to a different college from this guy. While at college, this guy rode on the back of a friend's motorcycle and when he took off, this guy fell backward and hit his head on the cement (no helmet). He darn near died.

He was in a coma for a long time. He had to learn how to walk and talk again.

He was a smart kid, studying to be an engineer but his brain was forever damaged by what happened to him. He used tutors, tried to take one class at a time but it didn't work, he had to drop out of college.

He had a pot belly, he was balding, he worked for the department of transportation for the state he lived in working on the road crew.

His speech was pretty good, but there were some issues here and there. Again, it was a tough break for him, his injury.

But, my dad was in shape, always went to the gym, no pot belly, a six pack actually, a full head of hair.

This other man didn't earn nearly what my dad did, again he had bad luck with his accident and injury, but still, he didn't compare to my father.

My mother told my dad that man "got" her, understood her and my dad didn't.

About that folks. Less than two months after my mom and dad were divorced, my mom took us 3 kids almost 200 miles away, to another state so she could be with that man.

Guess how long they made it together folks? LESS than 3 months.

My dad told us kids that man "got" his mother so well that they didn't even last 3 months together once she moved to be by him.

Oh, my mom was and is greedy and materialistic, always has been and still is.

This other man didn't earn nearly what my father did.

Guess what this man said to my mother? Oh, no need to find this out from my dad as it was ME who told my dad this since it happened in front of me and my brothers.

That man had issues with his brain again, and when he and my mom were arguing one time, he told my mom that she was "a meanie and a spender" and yes that's an exact quote.

That man with a damaged brain was correct too. My mom was greedy and materialistic which he said when he said she was a spender. She was also mean in that she had no problems speaking her mind, forcefully too. She wanted what she wanted, when she wanted it. She never wanted to be told what to do, she was and is feisty and it's hard to be around her, yet somehow my dad was around for 25 years overall.

My mom wasn't dumb, she was in her late 30's, with 3 kids, with a decent amount of life experience and yet she couldn't see that the man she was having an affair with wasn't right or good for her.

She LOVED him, she was going to marry him, to move in with him. She cried over him.

Look, I get folks wanting a divorce, if my mom wanted to divorce my dad, that's one thing. But what she did, the way she went about it, the way she treated him was messed up.

And the man she chose to be with after my dad was completely wrong for her. My dad jokes that a pet rock would have known that the two of them weren't good for each other.

Guess what my mom did when that other man of hers ended things with her after less than 3 months? Yep, she got scared and she reached out to try and reconcile with my dad.

Sadly, for my dad anyway, she didn't really want to reconcile, but just use my dad until she found someone else, which she did like 7 or 8 months later.

My mom is on her 3rd husband now. My dad never remarried.

The way my mom was led to her 2nd divorce. That man, who was nice, left her due to the way she was, how greedy and materialistic she was, how headstrong she was etc.

I don't really know her 3rd husband. Why? I don't want to, I didn't even go to their wedding.

I can't imagine they'll make it long term though, unless he doesn't mind letting my mother walk all over him.

My mom was old enough, with enough life experience to have chosen a better man when divorcing my dad, but she really messed up.

"Certainly not me. For the truth could very well be, in my case only, that she was and maybe still is, an interesting, loving, caring , lonely person who did engage with my husband. I accept that and am totally ok with it."

(Crikey, I can’t even remember how to use the quote function)

I feel at a similar state of indifference to my OWs as you intimate in this quote, notaboringwife, though clearly given your nomenclature you have not always felt that sanguinity. For me, this Affair Down post remains important, because the comparison between BW and OW (and BH and OM) has been already been invidiously cast by the affair. It merely says, very well, let’s compare, if we must, as a way of countering widely held assumptions that OW offers anything better - It’s simply a way of cutting through all the dazzle and shine of the affair mirage. My own feeling is that BW, and by extension WH, actually needs to compare the two men at play, the lying cheating one with the one they want to be, not an accountant’s comparison between BW and OW. But I’m more interested in behaviour than any kind of essentialism for therein lies the mirage and personally, even though I don’t know her, consider your OW’s behaviour to be neither caring nor loving. IMHO

It’s been 3 years for me now and…so yes.

The original Hooker With the Heart of Gold is long gone. No other successful relationships for him, and she wasn’t as he was paying her.

Meanwhile I’ve had 3, with a man who thinks I hung the moon now.

🤷‍♀️

Turns out the market for short hairy overweight bald cheaters is surprisingly sparse. Who knew.

Off to the Bahamas with my dog in my lovers plane…I have no illusions he will ever realize the 22 years we built meant anything. He was cheating with whoever he could pay I’m sure. He will never get it, he just is not that smart, which is the worst betrayal fir me. He never was who I thought he was or who he thinks he is.

But, not my circus and not my monkeys now.

Wish it wasn’t my kids, but I can’t help that. None of this was my fault.

But yes, they always affair down, way way down.

Bump

Edie,

Thank you so much for bumping this. I needed this today and I am so appreciative.

I certainly think my WS affair'd down.

-I don't cheat on my husband with married men.

-I don't invite them into my car and go to vacant parking lots to have sex in the backseat.

-I don't give BJs to married men behind bushes.

-I don't invite them to have sex at my house when my husband's not home.

-I don't sneak into their houses with their wives aren't home.

-I don't demand that they say they love me, even if they don't feel it.

-I don't demand that they "dig deep" and find feelings for me, despite them saying they still love their wives.

-I don't try to cling to them after their wives find out and they tell me there will be no further contact.

-I don't write them long emails after D-Day, telling them what they should require of their wives before they agree to reconcile with them.

-I don't remind them of every negative thing they said about their wives during the A in hopes they will decide they want to stay with me after all.

=-After being told at least 10 times that there will be no further contact and all my avenues of contacting them have been blocked, I don't create a new email address just to say, "So you're really serious about us not having sex anymore? Please reply because it's still on the table for me."

-I don't get pissed off when a married man takes his wife to a park in their neighborhood where he took me because I thought it was supposed to be "our park."

-I don't demand that a married man stay in contact with me every 1/2 hour after having sex with me that morning.

-I don't send a constant barrage of emails, demanding that he check-in when I know he is out with his wife.

-I don't get pissed off when he finally replies and says they stopped for lunch.

-I don't demand that he admit he would rather have been out having lunch with me, even if he didn't.

-I don't demand that they check in several times a day when they're on vacation with their families.

-I don't cry on the phone when they check in from vacation and try to make them feel guilty for leaving me without sex for a week.

-I don't carry towels around in my car to put on married men's couches so their wives won't see the aftermath of my sex acts with their husbands.

-I don't use married men's bathrooms after having sex in their houses, the same bathrooms where their kids take showers and brush their teeth. I don't wipe my stench on their kids' towels and leave their unsuspecting wives to clean the bathroom after I've used it.

- I don't pretend to be a pillar of the community, working for political candidates and charities when I'm really off screwing around with married men in cars and behind bushes.

- I don't go to shows with married men under the guise of being "just friends" and then demand that he introduce me to his friends afterward, even if he feels it will raise suspicions.

- I don't cry and tell married men, "If you leave me, my romantic and sex life will be over! I will die and it will be all your fault."

- I don't zero in on married men's weaknesses and manipulate them to get what I want.

- I don't threaten to blow up married men's lives unless they keep doing what I want.

- I don't say, "Oh yeah? Well who are you fu****?" when a married man says he still loves his wife and needs to focus back on her.

I don't do any of these things. She did. She has no morals. Her value system is sad and twisted. She told my WH that he was a "victim of my strict and antiquated view of marriage" (that spouses should be honest, transparent, accountable and not cheat on each other, no matter what). She tried to convince him that I was holding him prisoner by wanting to know where he was and who he was with. She was pissed off that I was so responsible with our finances, that I regularly checked the bank accounts and credit cards for potential fraud (which has happened to us before) and to ensure we weren't over-spending. She was just mad that he couldn't pick up a lunch or dinner bill now and then without me knowing. Poor whore didn't get paid for her services.

So yes, he did affair down. Way down. She's gutter trash. I'm the prize.

Just reading this post again year later and yes even with my years more wisdom now, this post rings true….

I’d like to add to it….

REPARTNERING RED FLAGS….

When the WS moves on post separation/divorce they do a similar thing. The new person has to "accept" their past…. Just like they manipulated you the first time, they manipulate the new partner. The new partner has to believe they are either "recovered", "rehabilitated" in some way or that they are just so special themselves that it couldnt possibly be done to them. Or sometimes this person is similar themselves (two cheaters) and of course dont see their own wrong doing and worse console each other.

The new partner "overlooks" a lot of abuse. It’s really that simple. They believe the person is sorry and that all people make mistakes and deserve second chances.

I have only met one WS through dating that had genuine remorse… he had reconciled with his wife and remained married and she then died of cancer. None of the other WS held the character growth of having done the work. Amazingly it’s why they were of course single.

My serial WS repartnered. She has to overlook a long history … to her, he is the victim. She’s nothing to look at, our kids hate her, but she holds one power that has captivated him…. She made him feel good about himself regardless of how he treated me. For him that’s gold. He hasn’t done the "work". He’s not a better man. But he gets to feel like he is. As a narcissist he feels powerful again.

These "patterns" are very similar to the original affair. Not a lot has changed.

Integrity is about having standards. That includes not just standards for yourself, it extends to expecting people in your circle to have those standards too. Having someone in your bed that is prepared to treat other people the way you wouldn’t wanted to be treated is the biggest red flag out. Inversely, they also should not be accepting of you treating someone the way they wouldn’t want to be treated. Unless your WS did the work and demonstrated true remorse to you, their new partner shouldn’t be accepting their apology.

The new partner is either sadly a nice person and gullible if they got lied too (after all they aren’t having an affair now as they met when they were both single) or has lower integrity standards if they know the real story, repeating the "affair down" pattern.

Beware too yourself to look out for this in others when you start dating again.

[This message edited by Tortured at 10:02 PM, Sunday, June 19th]