SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Many people have been able to R if they choose to but that's a particularly terrible betrayal to overcome. I agree with you that those times she chose him over you, even when you were hospitalized for crying out loud, sound devastating. It's hard to believe that you being injured couldn't even shake her out of her fantasy. D is a very, very understandable course of action. People have D for a lot less than this, a lot less. No kids and still young... that makes D easier. Not easy, but easier.

Take your time deciding what you want. Remember that she has a huge amount of work she has to do on her broken self let alone trying to help you heal. It might be a good idea to separate for a while. For her to go live with family if possible. I know you are anxious when apart but that space can potentially help you heal and see your options more clearly.

It's positive that she has revealed the truth of what happened. Few WS get the timeline perfect so I wouldn't hold that against her. But she blames you for her inner emptiness? That my friend is BS. And it shows she is not actually taking accountability like you said. She says you didnt cause her A but she says you did cause her inner emptiness? And that led to her A. All double talk she needs to sort out.

Take care of yourself first and foremost.

OP, you sound like an introspective, thoughtful kinda guy. I think those advising you to go slow and take time to figure out your mind is the right course of action, especially for someone such as yourself. I think this whole things boils down to two questions that you need to answer or at least come to grips with before any long term decision is made.

First, is your wife truly remorseful and committed to R and will she do the necessary work over the long haul to rebuild the marriage. It sounds like she was in awful deep with her AP and I find it hard to believe that she can walk away from that at the drop of a hat.

Secondly, even if the answer to the above is yes, can you live with what you already know and is the marriage so poisoned that it's passed the point of salvage?

Detaching and D is obviously painful. But more painful than living with her and the knowledge of her betrayal? Its a tough choice and I only wish you the strength and wisdom to make the one right for you.

It’s often said here that true R cannot begin until the last lie is told. And withholding the complete truth, which she continues to do, is absolutely still lying. You are NOT in R as she is still concealing the full truth. The question is this: how long will you continue to tolerate not even being respected enough to get the FULL truth. Please start valuing yourself more!

[This message edited by gr8ful at 7:04 AM, Sunday, February 18th]

You description’s of the times she chose him over you was so painful to read. Plus knowing that this was possibly just a few instances of it. Affairs happen. People have holes in their soul that they look to fill. Sometimes with very screwed up choices. But this goes beyond that. She professes now that you are her twin flame, yet when the rubber met the road, she chose him. The acts you mentioned were not just spur of the moment mistakes, they are well thought out choices. And he was the choice, not you. If leaving you in the hospital to continue her sex vacation wasn’t a wake up call for her to quit her affair then, she has some serious issues on her part, and how she views you.

Others have come back from this, and more, but what she put you through was heinous. I get the non sexual attraction. We didn’t have sex for an eternity, and when we finally did, it wasn’t the same.

The choice is yours, but what happens when she once again feels that her life is incomplete with you and does this again.

How sure are you that she is 100% NC? She fooled you for so long.

You are an extremely intelligent and thoughtful person. You have been asking yourself and us very meaningful questions, and I admire that about you.

I want to second waitedwaytoolong's post above my writing here.

She made choices and decisions, and her affair partner was the winner for each choice and decision. I felt my anger rising as I read about her choice and decision to continue having sex with her affair partner while you were in the hospital... almost unbelievable a spouse could be that calloused. But, it seems nothing much surprises me anymore.

what happens when she once again feels that her life is incomplete with you and does this again

I think that is a question you should be asking yourself over and over, because we all know those times are going to happen in the future. Will her "go to" decision and choice be the one where she decides to fill the emptiness inside with the fun and excitement of the forbidden, taboo affair? Or, will she straighten herself out enough in the meantime, between now and then, to be able to have enough integrity to say "NO" to some guy hitting on her?

None of use can answer that question and I know you can't either. Hopefully time will help in giving you some clarity because you know her and we don't.

I want to also second all those saying to get all the details possible before deciding your final decision... especially reconciliation.

Good luck to you.

Twinflamed

No one other than yourself is more qualified to assess whether your wife deserves another chance to R.

That said, if you read JFO threads going back as far as it's available, you will find that As that involve a HS flame or lifelong heart throb ex etc. just do not die away. There is little indication based on your posts that suggest that your WW is over this guy. There is not even the buffer of long distance physical separation here. The odds are stacked against success but I do wish your case turns out to be the exception. Good luck!

Best wishes. Trying to use sex as a means to get you back is normal but tends not to work long term.

The fact that your wife defends the affair means she lacks empathy and remorse. Until she puts you first your relation more than likely will not survive.

What you need to do is get some hobbies, go out with family or friends.

Please don't shame me if I appear indecisive and all over the place in this post. I need some more time to get my shit together. I am still trying to wrap my head around everything she has disclosed so far.

No shaming as betrayal is a traumatic event. It is normal to feel confused especially when the WS is Love Bombing the BS. It wreaks havoc with the BS logic.

This is why you should distance yourself from her, as your mind and heart are at odds with each other, hence the recommendation to distance yourself.

The distance will help you synchronize your heart and mind without the interference.

Only time will tell if your WW is suitable for R, but mind you, she has to EARN a chance at R with you, and you have to be in a more settled state of mind before you can even consider giving your WW a chance at R (if that is what you end up deciding with a clear mind).

Mind you, you are under no obligation to choose R if you decide not to R.

YOU are The Prize, as you have kept your integrity, vows, morals, and did not betray your partner. Keep that in mind.

Hi there. Just checking in with you. This is a marathon not a sprint so I know time can drag during the days weeks and few months after DDay.

In reading what you are saying to me it appears you still live her but not attracted to her and sickened by her since she did what she did.

That’s completely understandable.

If I were in your shoes I’d begin the process to divorce. I’d tell her she ended life as your wife when she began emotionally and physically with this guy.

I’d tell her you do t know what the future will bring between the two of you, but being married partners is not possible right now and she should support you in completing this legal ending of your marriage that her choices destroyed.

Then live your life for a while. Meet other people including women and learn about what you want. Of course she’d be free to do the same but hey, she did that anyway when you were a committed couple.

Then down the road, if you both decide to try again and start something new you can choose to do so. Or my hope you find someone that has your best interests at heart.

We’ll see where it leads you, but D is the start of the process.

I wish you well in the journey.

I encountered your thread and read it from front to back and thought I'd offer some advice as a BH with 7 years of R under my belt. My WW did a lot of the same things as yours, particularly "work" trips that were shorter than advertised, with the remaining time spent with her AP.

First of all, had I not had two kids with her and some very strong financial reasons not to go to D, I would have in a heartbeat, knowing what I know now. You are not encumbered yet, get the hell out of Dodge is my suggestion before she locks you in with kids and debt.

My WW was 100% cooperative in going NC, opening up access to all of her accounts and devices, and making me feel safe in the relationship. For the first year after dday, the hysterical bonding sex was clearly an effort to buy me off, but it was nice since she's got a much lower drive than I do. She had lots of sex with her AP but it was transactional - make her feel wanted and valued, show her a good time, and she'll put out. Honestly same as now in our marriage. I feel like I should be paying for it (and I guess I sorta am).

She did some IC, and we had a very bad MC experience, so that ended quickly. She still makes an effort to make me feel safe by taking pictures of where she is, etc., but of course, she's a confirmed liar, and I am never entirely certain I'm not being played. This is the biggest issue - being humiliated once was sheer hell, but the other shoe might drop at any moment, like a sword hanging about your head. This makes R very difficult. I don't love my wife very much at this point, that has been eroded by years of living with the fact she betrayed me. It's a real effort to go through the motions - writing on a birthday card for example. In our early years it was "Love you forever!" now it's "Have a nice day".

At this point, I'm waiting for an inheritance, whereupon our joint debt will be paid. The kids are adults now, although they're still living at home in this environment, but that's manageable. Retirement is coming up, and I don't think she's going to be cooperative in living the life I want to in retirement, so I'll probably decline to renew the joint mortgage for the house, which will precipitate a split. For me, the M has been acceptable for the last 7 years. But at the same time, I have an exit strategy. Honestly, if it didn't mean really blowing up my life, it would have been better to D than live in this limbo for years.

Run like hell.

First of all, I thank everyone of you for your encouraging words. I needed to hear them.

I totally agree that she is unfairly and inaccurately blaming me for her inner emptiness. I did call her out on this. Her answer was, "I need more time to dig through my mind and find out what really went wrong." I suggested to her that therapy would be a good start, and she is looking into it now.

How sure are you that she is 100% NC? She fooled you for so long.

She was able to fool me before because I wasn't expecting that from her. Now, I am vigilant. She has changed her number and her phone. She has deleted all her SM accounts. Her new phone is pretty basic. Except for WhatsApp, there are no other chat apps in it. A wife (C) of my friend who also works in her office, is keeping an eye on her. She confirmed to me that there had been no contact between them. Other office workers are also wondering why they have stopped talking. They know something has happened. So, if they break NC, C would know. 

So, she finished her second TL. It was pretty exhaustive and had more details than the TL1. I couldn't finish reading it. I just couldn't. She came clean about many more 'choices' like the ones I mentioned in my previous post. I am not feeling the anger. I am not feeling pain either. I am just numb. When I was reading the TL, my wife was sitting next to me, holding my arm tightly for some reason. Maybe it was meant to give me some kind of comfort. I did initially feel her grip. But, as I read through every detail in her TL, I started to feel numb, and I couldn't feel her grip around my arm anymore. Everything I read was horrible, man. I had thought her work trip callousness during my injury was the worst thing she ever did, and nothing else could top that. I don't know why I thought that. I came across another act of hers that stung me more than anything else. That is when I stopped reading through her TL. I just gave up. I just sat there on my sofa for 15 minutes with my wife holding my arm. I wasn't feeling anything. It felt like bliss. I read a very hurtful thing, and yet I wasn't feeling the pain. I didn't want to get out of that numbness. Because outside, there is excruciating pain and horror. So, I didn't move. I didn't look at my wife. I stopped reading. I didn't talk. I just closed my eyes and exercised my meditation techniques. Meditating during numbness is a powerful experience. When I opened my eyes I was still feeling the numbness. For a second or two, I experienced a moment of clarity. I turned to my wife and said, "I want to go home. I want to be with my mom now. I just can't take it anymore." There was a sense of relief on her face. I guess she was expecting a harsh reaction from me, like a declaration of divorce or something. She wanted to know for how long I would be staying with my family. I didn't have any time period in mind. So I just replied, "I don't know." That rattled her a bit. She immediately asked if this was it for our marriage. I told her, "At this moment, in the state of my mind, I feel this should be it." 

So yeah, we are separating. Two reasons. One to keep her away from me at a safer distance. Once this numbness recedes, the anger will rush in, and I might snap. That might turn me into a toxic partner. I also want to be in a safe environment if that happens. I don't want to be a vengeful or toxic person. Second, I want to stay far from that POSOM. I don't know what I will do to him if and when I snap.

I am leaving tomorrow. I called my sister yesterday and invited her again to come and stay with my wife for a few days. She will be quitting her job by the end of this month. Her parents will be coming here to take her back to her house. Until then, my sister will stay with her.

My head feels heavy now. I haven't slept all night. Neither did she. We talked all night. I never talked to anyone like that before. I had never been that vulnerable before. I was feeling hollow and empty. I felt that was the right moment to get as many brutal answers from her as possible. I knew the numbness in me would help me keep the conversation as civil as possible. It also helped me open up to her in a way I never did. There was no resistance inside me this time. 

I wanted to know why she hated me so much. She claims she never hated me. I don't believe it. Nobody does things that she did to a person they claim not to hate. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Her logic was that in her affair fantasy, I didn't exist. It was him and her. She asked how she could hate me when I never existed in her fantasy. Her choices were never between me and him. It was between reality and fantasy. She chose fantasy. She also claims her AP could have been anybody, and still, she would have chosen her AP over me because he was part of her fantasy. She is adamant that It had nothing to do with me, and she never hated me and never will. I get what she was trying to convey, but it didn't make my situation any less painful. Whether it was about me or not, today I am hurt and broken because of it. I am suffering the consequences of it. She knew, and yet she did it. She couldn't give me a satisfying answer to my question. 

I had another question. I wanted to know if she ever felt guilty for her actions, especially when she was spending time with him. She claimed she did. All the time. She confessed that there were many times when she couldn't spend her time well with him because of the guilt. During her time with him on her work trip, she wasn't feeling comfortable at all. Her plan was to have fun with him after finishing their work. They did plan some fun. activities to do. But my accident played a spoiler. When she chose to spend time with him instead of coming back home for me, she immediately realized she had made one of the most vile choices of her entire life. Up until that moment, she was able to convince herself that her affair was 'unacceptable' and 'inappropriate', but not entirely bad. She believed she had enough good excuses to justify her A. But after this particular choice, she couldn't justify herself. She knew I didn't deserve this, especially during that difficult period of my life. They couldn't do all the fun activities they had decided to, except for sex, of course. They allegedly had sex only twice in the last two days of her trip. That is when she first realized that she had turned into a junkie. When she returned home, she decided to end her A. But she couldn't do so for long. I immediately asked if she was unable to end her A at that time, then how was she able to do that now? She replied, "Consequences." At that time, she didn't face any consequences because she wasn't caught. This time she is facing consequences, and she is losing me, her reality. I told her that she had already lost me. I am not the guy to whom she was married. I confessed that I didn't find her desirable anymore. Something changed inside of me. I feel like a different person now. It seemed like my words stung her hard. She was on her knees. I couldn't feel bad for her. So I held her hand. I told her that she needed help. I told her that if she was the junkie that she claimed to be, then it's not possible to make an 180 overnight. She will succumb to the temptation again eventually. Whatever there was between us before her A, I will cherish it. I refused to believe that my 

The whole marriage was a sham. It was beautiful, purposeful, and blissful. It enriched my life and validated my existence for as long as it could. Now it's all over. She seemed to agree on that. 

We also talked about her failure to communicate her problems with me and many other crucial issues. Writing them will make this post very long. I don't think it's necessary. 

It's not the first time I asked these questions to her, but this time I felt she was more honest and less defensive than in previous times. I am still not completely satisfied with all her answers. I feel like she regrets only getting caught and having to face consequences. I don't know if she regrets her A. 

I told her not to be too optimistic about relationships. At this moment, I want to end this relationship. That's how I feel now. I don't know for how long I will feel this way, but right now, this feeling is pretty strong. 

I can't believe it's all coming to an end. It feels visceral. We had everything. She was one of the few people who stood up for me during my difficult times eight years ago. Her family was skeptical of me. They didn't trust me. They didn't want her daughter to marry me. I don't blame them. Who would want to give their daughter to a guy with anger issues and a history of violent outbursts? But she didn't give up on me. She fought against her family and convinced them to agree to our marriage. She believed in me. She never complained about anything. She always had my back. She was fun. She enriched my life in every way, and then she did THIS. I don't understand this. Why would she do that? I have asked her this so many times since today. But she has no convincing answer. I feel like even she doesn't know the answer. And how is that possible?? How can a person not know why they did what they did?? Has this ever happened to any of you? With all my flaws, even I never did anything bad, and I couldn't explain why.

Anyway, sorry for another long post. I hope this separation gives us some much-needed clarity and peace for both of us. I wish this numbness lasted a little longer. I don't want to feel the pain. 

Someday someone asked me here if I take any medicines. 
- No. I don't like taking medicines. Yoga and meditation are my medicines.

OP, your story is a tough one and I think you've handled it with dignity. I agree you need to separate yourself from her and more so than just weeks or a few months. You should follow your head and your heart, but with the damage she has wrought, I think divorce is your path to recovery. I just don't know how you could live with this while there still is any formal attachment to her. If down the road there is an eventual R to be had, so be it. But I feel you need to burn the old marriage to the ground and experience life on your own for a while. Just extricate yourself from all this toxicity and move out of this darkness.

Thank you, Sammich. It is true that the old marriage is dead. I am still mourning its demise. I am with my family now. They have extended their support to me. Even my dad is on my side. That's more than enough for me. I even met some of my old friends. It felt good. I feel this place and these people can provide me with the positive environment I need.

So what was it that you found out in the second timeline that was worse than the worst thing she did before? What was this straw that seems to have broken the camel's back? I, for one, would really like to know for someone as together as you.

Talisman, this new discovery may not seem as tragic as others, but nonetheless, it has hurt me more than other discoveries. While reading TL, she gave me a card. It was a couple's play card similar to that of Slam Book. It had many personal and intimate questions, that needed to be answered by the recipient of that card. Every answer must revolve around the answering person's romantic partner. One of the questions was: What do you regret in your life? And why?
Her answer was that she regretted not dating her AP before meeting me because then she would be with him today, and not with me. (Am I allowed to use cuss words against AP? I just typed a long line of cuss words and then erased it, thinking it wouldn't be allowed. I see people using only POS. So I don't know if other words are tolerated or not. I just need my negative emotions toward him to be validated.) Her immediate explanation was that if she were with him, she wouldn't have betrayed me today. She says she was projecting her guilt of betraying me in that answer. I don't know if that explanation is true or not, but at that moment, it didn't matter. The damage was already done. For a while, I was of the belief that her inner void was the cause of her affair, and without that, she wouldn't have crossed the line. But after reading that answer, it felt like our whole marriage was a sham and was destined to fail the moment she got closer to her AP, regardless of her state of mind and the extent of her happiness in our marriage. I felt utterly humiliated. I felt like I was her sidepiece.

If she and the AP end up together one of them is going to come out of the honeymoon stage, real life will come in, and the twin flames will crash and burn.
Here is what you do. Move on. Then once they begin their new life together pull out your recliner and a bag of popcorn. Things are going to get interesting. Anybody that thinks a world that has 8 billion people is somehow so magical that she met what amounts to a "soul mate". I wish I knew who makes up these ridiculous terms but I would love to tell them to shut up.
Find your true north and head that way and leave her in the dust. You have a life to live and absolutely no reason to EVER hear the words Twin Flames again. After a while you are going to chuckle at the whole idea.

I’m sorry for your pain. I think you’re prolonging your own agony, there’s no kids so just walk away. Let her go, go no contact and divorce her. You have nothing to work with here.

Her answer was that she regretted not dating her AP before meeting me because then she would be with him today, and not with me.

Holy Shit! No wonder this gutted you…..

It sounds like the part where she says "all the twin flame talk was AP and it was just a fantasy for her" is BS. She’s effectively saying she wishes she could "erase you from the equation". Then when you call her on it, it’s all to have "avoided hurting you"? Leaving out the part she could "be with AP without all the messiness". You SHOULD be more hurt by that part. She’s unfortunately showing you her true heart.

It would be interesting to know in this hypothetical alternative timeline, if she was with him and then met you, would she have cheated with you?

Food for thought.

As painful as all this is now, you are making the best choice (even if it is only for your immediate mental health) to separate now (at least for a while). She will continue to show you her "true self".

I’m sooooo sorry you are going through this Hell.

[This message edited by ImaChump at 12:42 AM, Sunday, February 25th]

It would be interesting to know in this hypothetical alternative timeline, if she was with him and then met you, would she have cheated with you?

Never. It would never happen because I would never agree to have an affair with her. Being cheated on is already a very humiliating and awful experience, but being a part of an affair and the consequential destruction of a human and a family is an unforgiving sin. My father always said, "Getting betrayed is bad, but betraying is evil."  

Find your true north and head that way and leave her in the dust.

I think you’re prolonging your own agony, there’s no kids so just walk away. Let her go, go no contact and divorce her. 

I hear you both. That is exactly my feeling right now. I do want to walk away. But I want to know for sure that this is what I want. I have seen a lot of people in life go back and forth when it came to ending relationships. I often see this 'back and forth' having a negative impact on their mental health and life. I don't want that to happen to me. I need to know for sure what I want before I make my decision. And, then there is no going back for me. I also don't want to be impulsive. I have worked very hard to become a better person. I won't let her spoil my hard work. If, after 6 or 7 months, I still feel the same as today, i.e., to end this marriage, then I will end this.

OP, for me, this latest revelation would be the coupe de grace. Despite her spin, this lays bare her inner thoughts. She can twist herself into a pretzel trying to rationalize it, but its like the old saying, "who are you going to believe; her or your lying eyes"? I understand that you want to be sure of your decision, but any divorce will take longer than 6-7 months to finalize and you can always stop the process. Just asking, since you are separating anyway, wouldn't it be better to start the process now so if you choose to D you wouldn't have wasted another 7 months of your life?