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This man does not love you. He loves no one. That means he is dangerous. Contact the police immediately. They can make him move out of the house. Please contact ASAP.

Barelybreathing--thank you. I thought this wasn't going to be as hard as the first time but it's likely very equal.

I am just not that same person though anymore, stronger and fully aware that there is something very deep and badly wrong with my WH. He has some deep issues that require him to fill his self-worth with the attention of women. (he has seriously bad issues from childhood)

The lies though...I can't even begin to understand how he thinks he's mentally sane. He told OW he had brain cancer, was on chemo, he's sterile, he's divorced, has custody of our kids. He even pits one OW against another for attention. He's rich, he has all this big money...SMH.

In the last round of cheating he had a nanny (must've been me..lol)

I think I thought the PN gave me too much protection and he wouldn't do anything again :(

Cooley2here

You are correct! He does not love anyone, not his kids, OW or me.
He's not capable,he's risked my life over and over with an open relationship I wasn't aware of.

I'm going to immediately do what I need to, to get him out.

Serious question..why is this you focus?

there is something very deep and badly wrong with my WH. He has some deep issues that require him to fill his self-worth with the attention of women.

And not this?

It was urine in my mouthwash, glass in my BOB, bleach in my shampoo (thank goodness I smelled it first) tracked my car (me unknowingly)hot pepper rubbed in the crotch of my underwear and castor oil in my drink. crying

You say he did these things,as if it's not a huge deal. You've always done that. You kinda dismiss that this man attempted to do you serious bodily harm,and focus on his need for external validation.

And he is gaslighting,and berating the kids. So well that your son feels he has to live with dad to protect them.

He is abusive to you,and the kids. You really should be honest with the kids about everything he did to you,so they fully understand dad is dangerous. They deserve to know who they are dealing with. Idgaf that he is their dad. He's a danger to them.

I agree with your mom. Give him what he wants. Your life very well depends on it. And,quite possibly, your children's lives.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:44 PM, Monday, September 19th]

Hellfire, you are right, I've forever downplayed these things, excused them because of his childhood. I know better, I think I've let him over the years place the blame on me for the WHY he cheated on me and WHY I deserved for these dangerous things to be done to me.

I think a part of me wants to excuse the cheating on his damaged childhood so I don't think it was because something was wrong with me.

He is doing incredible damage to my son psychologically, my son saw on his phone a search on suicide and told my older daughter so he is frightened that if he doesn't chose to go with him (since he'll be asked) that my WH will be alone. My WH has zero friends, ZERO family and all he has left is our two kids. (My older daughter will not go with him--she has a clearer picture of his issues.

I will not provoke him in any way to get out of this, you are correct it could be dangerous.

CT101, I actually remember your posts from back when I was lurker and hadn't actually started posting. Reading about your WH always gave me chills. Although it's under unfortunate circumstances, I'm glad that you're posting again, purely because I always worried about what happened to you.

Have you ever filed any domestic violence or other criminal complaint against your husband? Has he ever been arrested? Have any of his OW ever reported him for anything? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I recall that one of the OW you confronted claimed that he raped her.

Also, how old are your kids?

My concern is that if he has no criminal record and you've never reported him for DV, the chances of you getting a restraining order against him and sole physical/legal custody of your kids might be very slim. If you go forward with these allegations now, his lawyer might argue that you're doing so to get back at him for cheating. As you already know, psychopaths like your WH are very adept at manipulating the legal system and mental health professionals; he could end up making you seem like the crazy one. Also, if your kids are terrified of him or for him (particularly your son), they might take his side over yours... or potentially endanger themselves by speaking out against him.

That's why, if your kids are in their teens and he hasn't been violent or malicious toward you in the past 6 years, it might be safer for you and your children to make him think that you have resigned yourself to tolerating his infidelities forever, lull him into a false sense of security, and then file for divorce after your youngest child is 18. That way, there won't be any custody dispute between you and your children will be able to decide for themselves how much or little interaction they want to have with your ex-husband. You are also in a better position to protect them from him while the whole family is under one roof; you will have no control over anything that happens in his home.

I know this advice will be contrary to everyone else on this site telling you to run--and under different circumstances I would be joining the chorus to tell you just that-- but given the type or person that you're dealing with, I just think that you and your children are in greater danger if you leave right now than if you stay until they're adults.

I see what you're saying, BluerThanBlue. I so wish we had a crystal ball!

My concern is that his attempts to harm CrazyTrain (not to mention that he is apparently a rapist) were so sick-minded that it seems very unlikely he has been, and will continue to be, quasi-stable.

This is where the legal professionals and women's safety experts need to be consulted and listened to, because most of us are neither.

I know this advice will be contrary to everyone else on this site telling you to run--and under different circumstances I would be joining the chorus to tell you just that-- but given the type or person that you're dealing with, I just think that you and your children are in greater danger if you leave right now than if you stay until they're adults.

You could be right. But you might not be, as well, in which case CrazyTrain will sacrifice six years of her life on a "what if." If he does escalate his behavior, then there will be a record to use against him in court. Also, the kids should be old enough to tell their custody preference to the judge. A counselor can talk her son through his fear that he's the only thing keeping his dad from suicide. I also think that giving the children distance from him, even if only part time, is better for their development and well-being.

Just thinking out loud here, really. Many people have been in this situation before and there are experts ready to step in. I'd make that my priority right now -- getting the best advice I can for my situation.

Hey again.

Well, on the upside. Now you know for sure that you’re doing the right thing. You can rest your head softly on a pillow and sleep soundly knowing that you have proven he is an infection, and you are merely amputating the gangrene because now you know.

I hope you get 75% of his sports car and his balls. You know, 50/50 on his balls would also be just fine by me. Good for you, finding out that you have cancer and activating your treatment plan. Chemo hurts a little, but this should save your life nicely.

I’m sorry your kids are hurting, but they will survive. After all, cancer treatment is hard on everyone, not just the victim. But stay strong, girl. At least you know.

Throw a frozen shrimp under the seat in his sportscar from me.

BluerThanBlue,

I appreciate your words, yes it's been a long saga and I've hoped I wasn't back here for this reason.

HE has no arrests, I've not filed any--likely as trying explain to the police that the crotch of my underwear are burning because he rubbed hot pepper in them, sounds like it does, CRAZY! He is the master of doing things to me I can't prove directly. WH said previously that his first wife (9 months total duration was in a few safe houses for domestic violence)which I believe. He said he never touched her, I dont believe that either. BUT he has never directly touched or hit me. He is a licensed contractor and in our state he can lose his license for domestic abuse (he got his license after his first wife).

Yes, there was ONE OW that said she felt forced into sex with him, she is a psycologist and they had been talking prior to their meet up st her office, so I'm not sure how much credance I can put in this woman or her claims, sounds questionable.

I have been good in the last 6 years, I built a great business so I'm financially free of him so I put my energu into the future all this time (knowing I was probably going to leave)

My kids are almost 14 and 15 years old.

I have 100% thought about doing my time and spending the next 5 years playing house for my childrens sake, both of my kids have said they are choosing to live with me, but youngest is very afraid to tell the court that he wants to go with me and has asked that he do it behind closed doors with the judge alone (not in front of his dad).

They have a pretty full picture of the situation and I am not willing to gamble with them though, I have stayed this long because of it. I have thought about proposing a you do you, I'll turn a blind eye approach to his infidelity but I would have to tear up the post-nuptual to do that I'm sure as WH wouldn't move forward doing the things he wants to (cheating) with it in place.

I would almost rather placate him and live as roommates since we are close to our kids growing up and can end things then.

I'm sure I can make up the difference between the 75/25 split just in income so it's not needed financially. You are right, the safe play here is to stay, be present everyday with my good influence over them, then risk him having any duration of time spent with him alone.

I'm not sure WH would go for that, his premise is that he would be too old to "start over" and find someone by then--personally I'm not postive his eating disorder (buliemia) wouldn't end hif life before our kids are out the door. It seems like 25 years of it has started to take its toll on him, ulcers, high blood pressure. I'm sure diabetes is next if he doesn't rupture his esophagus or have a heart attack first.

[This message edited by Crazytrain101 at 7:33 PM, Tuesday, September 20th]

Swmnbc,
Thank you, I will have a child psychologist talk with my son, although I'm not sure how much he would open up. My WH has preached to him to say nothing. My older daughter (25 from a previous) was the one he told that WH was worried he'd end his own life while seeing his search history. She could and will testify, I also have a text message exchange between my WH and son where he came home and he was sitting in his truck with the windows up, garage closed and truck running. My son told him to get out and that he was worried, my WH just said he was on the phone

The responsibility my son is shouldering is palpable and unbelievable.

I would do anything to protect them from him, my daughter said she will visit with him onlu after he gets treatment for his eating disorder and she's scared he'll die, they both now about the rampamt cheating and are angry that he destroyed their family.

My son believes my WH will hurt himself if he doesn't choose to stay with him and live---too much of a burden for him to bear.

Have you found a therapist for your kids? They need some external support right now.

Edit: I see you plan to look into it. Don't second guess the therapist, they are trained to work with children who have internalized responsibility for their parents. Get your son to therapy now.

[This message edited by NotInMyLife at 7:29 PM, Tuesday, September 20th]

3yearsout,
Thank you, he keeps his sports car locked away from my reach. He recently drove states away to visit a OW, unknown to me and let his car and picked up a rental as he told her I was tracking him. But he also said we were divorced so not sure why I'd need to track him..lol.

I intend, if the situation stays safe to level the harshest terms against him in the post-nuptual if it comes to that. I also believe this will be a LONG divorce process so hopefully I can get my kids a year or two older.

I'm sure he'll dispute my screen shots, motel receipts, pictures of him kissing a woman, 70 text exchanges and although its completely damaging--he's sure to not admit fault unless a judge decides that. My post-nuptail says " a proponderance of proof" meaning it has to seem in the eyes of the court that its more likely then not he cheated.

I have that covered 10 fold.

CT, please pay attention to everyone on here. We are all so concerned about your actual safety. You can’t continue to live in the house with a man who’s trying to kill you. There are women’s shelters all over the country. The cops know where they are. Go to the cops and lay out what happened to you over the last few years and that you are terrified and so are your children of what this man will do if you leave him. You need to get the cops involved. I live in a small community but we have a very active Police Department and they do not put up with shit when it comes to domestic issues.

Cooley2here, I went to my local police department and gave them dates of occurrences, details and as my attorney promised as soon as I said a divorce has been filed they gave zero credence in it. They looked at me like I was trying to make some fake accusations up to bolster my divorce. They asked if anyone could corroborate these things, well of course I have zero witnesses, that's why he does these kind of revengeful things, hard to prove, my word against his.

I am very ready tonight with the kids present propose we drop the divorce, I will have my attorney re-write the post-nuptials removing the infidelity clause. Spell out he can keep his business, I keep mine. We stay roommates until my youngest graduate about 5 years. We keep what's each is currently our own and then split the house 50/50 when my son leaves.

My WH is very busy working his magic on the kids, "Disney Dad" has arrived....lots of spending and spoiling to get them leveraged over to his side.

I cannot bear to think of my son getting stuck with this a**hole on a daily basis. He doesn't care about grades, makes lunches, doctors, getting them ready for school--nothing. On top of the crazy, unpredictable behavior.

I was going to speak to him with the kids present and just put the above proposal on the table--let him say no and tell the kids I can do no more, the divorce is proceeding. My son has begged I give it a few more years until he's old enough to at least drive since my husband does nothing.

Notinmylife, I will find a therapist although my WH has threatened him if he says anything or even shares that it will be bad news. He has told both my kids that he "doesn't forget" that sounds threatening to me. My older daughter almost 15 is wise beyond her years and sees him for what he is. My son is riddled with the responsibility of his dads supposed happiness or suicide as he sees.

CT- Sorry you find yourself here again. To me, it sounds like your WH is a Narc, maybe not formally diagnosed, but surely has the character of a full blown NARC. The thing with Narcs is, they are not capable of committing suicide. They love themselves way too much.

What he is very capable of, and as other NARCs is full manipulation, including that of his children. Don't put it past him that he had that suicide bullshit on the screen so that you son does in fact find it, so that he can get some sympathy. As far as going through with it, Hell no he won't. My former MIL was Bipolar, with Narc tendencies, and pull that bullshit a number of times. Her ass is still alive today. Loves herself way too much to even attempt it.

She also pulled the same bullshit about being sick, diagnosed with cancer when she wasn't just for sympathy. Your kids already know how toxic he is, and your household has got to feel really unhealthy and sick. There is no reason you should stay for the kids. What you should do, besides getting them into therapy is to use his games against him.

The search history, get a forensic tech to pull that out, and show it to the courts. Tell the courts and show them the proof that he has been pulling this suicide episode. Have your son testify with the Judge and don't worry about your son, when he sees the Judge, he will tell the truth. He is not going to lie to the judge to protect his dad. Use this information to secure full custody of your children. Use the PN to get what you can from the divorce and put that money to work for the kids. You are all living in fear, but you are NOT living. Give you kids a chance to live a healthy life for the last few years of high school, in a safe and sane home.

If the court finds out that your WH is a suicide threat to himself he will lose custody of the children. If the court finds out that he was using that information to manipulate your son, guess what, he is going to lose custody of your children. And you know what, He still aint going to kill himself. Those Narcs are cowards, I don't see someone who loves his sex and money that much killing himself. Its all manipulation, and it seems to be working. Call his bluff, and get your kids into a safe environment where they don't have a dad pretending to want to kill himself. That is what you should do. Use his silly games against him and win.

Crazytrain101,

First let me say big big hugs to you my friend, and how sorry I am to read this. I actually had to do a double take to see it was actually you posting.

Excuse me for saying this but your husband is a jackass of epic proportions. This will undoubtedly be his loss in so many ways, and after you being gracious enough to give him a second chance 6 years ago at which time you knew of 14 AP's, and now there is a plethora more you've discovered, then he deserves whatever fallout is coming.

I remember some newbies actually doubting if the things you wrote about him doing to you were true, that's how bad it was. It's because of the actions you wrote about that makes us concerned for your safety now. Narcissists, and you know very well my WH is one, can range from being assholes to outright dangerous. Yours cannot be trusted.

Do you have anything to protect yourself with? Are you certain you could live with him 5 more years sleeping with one eye open? Is it worth it?

You are strong, smart, and will absolutely survive this. Again. This time however you will walk away knowing you gave him every chance possible and he threw it all away like the fool he is. It's his loss. I mean that.

We are here for you. I am here for you, just as you were for me when I first came to SI.

Here’s how it worked out for me,(the ow/now wife is insane, lashes out at everyone, was involved in a murder, seduces her daughters 18 year old guy friends, and their fathers, on and on). So I get dealing with insanity.

My atty filed for D, requesting I have full use of the home.

That really helped us begin to heal.

I told my son he had no say in the matter-that he was living with me. (He appreciated that).

My xh and OW did not return my youngest son one Sun evening and I called the police to meet me, and get my son.

My xh then called my older son and harassed him, threatening to take his vehicle. I called the police on that too!

I hid behind my atty-I called him any time my ws played head games with our sons, and pulled this crap and my atty called his atty.

My ws realized he was going to lose his business license and drivers license if he didn’t leave us alone.

He backed way down. Finally!!!! It took letting the police/atty deal with him. I did not talk to him at all!! No arguing, no emailing, nothing. I tried “grey rock” as much as possible.

I secretly got my sons in counseling at the domestic violence center, bc their Dad was using family counseling to manipulate them. Please start to see a counselor there now if they have openings. They will be able to guide you.

You’ve got the info from the women who told you what your ws is up to, if necessary they can write up affidavits. What happened in my case: My atty told ws atty what was going on with ow/and my ws, and told him we can get sworn affidavits if necessary. After ws atty heard this, my ws atty convinced my ws to forgo a trial and simply settle the case. Remember-your ws atty doesn’t want to look stupid in a courtroom-and doesn’t want to lose. So the info you can get from these OW is used as leverage by your atty, you don’t have to involve them at this time.

I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. Take a deep breath. Don’t give in to anything right now.

Does your state allow voice activated recorders? That would help a lot bc you could have it on you. The first time after you have your recorder that he yells at you, or threatens you, go to the Police with the recorder and get him out of the house.

Keep posting.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 8:50 PM, Wednesday, September 21st]

Crazytrain101
He had to build a fence to keep the OWs and their husbands out?! Crikey it's like a zombie apocalypse. If that's not a disincentive to having a double life I dont know what is. I hope you can get him out ~ in Australia parties can make applications to the family court for exclusive occupation of premises pending resolution of property matters ~ hopefully something similar is available in your jurisdiction.
Love your name btw ~ I feel like I'm on the Crazy Train too but trying desperately to get off!

Halftime2017, thanks for the reply.
Yes my WH is a NARC likely a sociopath, who knows he's sick to epic proportions. I am thankful as your saying that he likely would not commit suicide because of who he is. I'm so sorry you've experienced this too---these people are incomprehensible, I've tried to rationalize his behavior for 17 years now, what a waste. I put way too much credence in the fact that he loved his money more than the women with that post-nuptial. That is what scares me more, is that he is crazy enough to have gambled all of the pie away to cheat.

I do fully believe my WH has done things purposely to keep my son in a perpetual scared mode, to keep him controlled and compliant. He does not try to pull those games on my daughter, he just tells her if she doesn't live with him 50% of the time she won't get all those special things (hair & nails done) because he won't have the money to pay for them

I will have a forensic tech pull his search history for the cheating and the suicide searches, I have my son seeing that search history with my older daughter from a previous to cooborate, him sitting in his truck with the garage closed, truck running and my son pleading for him to get out, and I have a screen shot of a text from a OW where she said he told her he sat in his chair with a gun all day crying, hopefully it will suffice. My daughter will not go with him (except mandatory every other weekend & is choosing to live with me) my son was saying he was going with me, but is now saying he wants 50/50 time with his dad. (I am very sure because my WH has been berating him & it's the most neutral stance right now)

YES Halftime2017--he's been telling all the OW that he had brain cancer and an auto-immune disease, and he was sterile from the chemo (I'm sure to convince them into unprotected sex. The only thing he has is buliema (eating then vomiting) which I'm sure is tied to his zero self-esteem and need for acceptance.

I am hoping my children can be honest in court, my attorney said they will have to state their choices and reasons in the courtroom in front of us both. I asked if they could speak to the judge in a private chamber and she said no, they would not allow that. My heart is broken if this has to happen, my kids know I'm the solid, strong and emotionally balance parent/person--my WH lives to make them feel sad & sorry for him.

I am going to do all you have suggested and use his games of manipulation against himself now, for the final time in my life! Hopefully I'll be able to minimize his damage to them, get them into therapy and give them some peace