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dontsaylovely,

You may feel your situation is very different than most BS, but please know that at least 1 other BS of a SAWH here long ago arrived at a similar conclusion as to why she didn't pursue a therapeutic divorce.

I've been coming - so s.l.o.w.l.y. - to adjust my understanding of our relationship from my original concept of Husband-Wife (Fail!) to Roomie-Pal-Protector. The loss of that marriage hurts regardless, and it isn't easy to bend our minds to this weird reality, but it sounds like you have made the same kind of calculation I did.

Early on, I found a therapist who told me something key that I didn't want to accept, and I'm just lately finally "getting" what she tried to tell me: "You must redefine your relationship with this man, because he may not ever have the capacity to be a husband to you!" She'd heard of his SA and childhood trauma, but she never worked with us together, so she didn't identify his Aspergers' traits (mild autism or severe Narcissistic blindness, I've never been able to determine, and at the time, I wasn't even aware of his possible ASD diagnosis).

So it has been a huge let-down, but now that I can see him from the distance of 20 years of celibacy since D-Day 1, I understand his capacity to "think of" another person is just somehow restricted for whatever reason, and it isn't only with me. He exists like a space man in outer space, doing what he thinks is right, and it often is good, but he has zero concept of what his actions may mean to others, even his customers, and he is a successful self-employed mechanical genius! A really handicapped person whom I unwittingly chose to marry.

But that therapist you saw was/is a partner of a SA, and she still wore a sexy top to a SAA meeting? I'd have quit her, too! Actually, I went back to college and majored in counseling psychology after MY D-Day and the lousy counselors we tried; figured I could do a better job than they ever did! But what she sounds like to me, with my little professional experience, is she still unconsciously identifies herself as a sex object. THIS is the kind of traumatic damage to the identity of the partner of a sex addict! The lessons they learned spill over into their self-image, going forward. It's almost like a reverse image of an 3-D object, like the mold used to make an object takes the inverse of the object and by looking at the mold, we can see what it was trying to shape! Her over-valuing of the male clients' opinions of her in terms of how attractive to them sexually she looks? Maybe it's my old age but seriously, that woman has her own set of major problems she isn't dealing with.

dontsaylovely,

If you're looking for support, google wetonglen

WeTonglen is a safe community for partners and ex-partners of porn, sex, and love addicts to share their stories of healing and hope, and find comfort and resources to aid on the journey of mending our broken hearts.

Look under events, there are all kinds of zoom meetings, some run by csats, some run by members of wetonglen.

Also, it's FREE!!!

From another long term betrayed partner of an SA that stayed.

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate it. Luna, I am a member of that group but - so far - haven't so far made it properly work for me. My issue, for the most part I like to bury the whole issue so don't go on enough/engage. I believe my personality needs a one on one talk. Not interested in a general therapist with little or no experience with SA. None within 2 hours of my home location. But good call, I need to be there when I get triggered as I obviously am right now.

Good points you made Superesse, thank you. I know many have chosen to stay and for good reasons. I loved working! and chronic pain illness means I can't so I am still bitter about that and add this and I'm just sorry my life turned out this way and for the most part I accept but right now I'm just so disappointed in myself for "accepting" even though brain says was best choice. Brain and emotions don't always match you know!

Roomie-Pal-Protector does sum up my situation also. I've recently had two surgeries and a third one coming up this week. SAWH has had 4 major surgeries over the years), one life threatening, all of those took a pile of my time and energy resources. Natch no issue (and I had no clue of double life then) so while I'm pleased to have the support/driving/etc. he does manage to sum up his own health issues to throw in with mine. How odd, do you need attention that badly (I think yes). I need the help and support but surprised it can't just be mine. Didn't mean to go there but does show he just has to be the centre of attention at all times which normally suits me as a very private person that does NOT want attention. But I think my subconscious mind is aggravated, then Valentine's Day trigger.

I don't think mine has the capacity to be a husband either. We don't know about his childhood trauma because he will not go there. That hasn't helped. He has a clue something happened but refuses to dig into it. I say then you don't value our relationship. Many efforts (in his mind) to show he does - gift cards, cute cards, little notes, etc. but none of that really means anything if he won't do the work to figure out his own issues and how he got emotionally stuck at some young age.

My nephew has Asperger's so I have done a lot of research into that, my mother def high on the NPD scale. SAWH doesn't seem to fit into any area of either. Needs attention yes but not like NPD. Seems like he's just a kid that wants Mommy and everyone else to watch him. Craves attention but not in a NPD way. He's stuck somewhere and I haven't unlocked his code. Nor will I try if he won't!

Somehow Superesse we managed to marry a (hidden) handicapped person. They present well don't they. I'm sure many others could chime in the same. I think Lionne would agree with us and used to be such a cheerleader in this area of the site. Her recovery was going so well until he got back into "soft porn" ie suggestive photos on the internet. As has mine. I wish I was at the do not care stage but still go from love to hate, don't care would be so much easier.

I think you nailed it - she sees herself as a sex object. FB friends and she posts pictures totally obviously photoshopped, think she's 66 years old. Amazingly no online photos have any wrinkles or life experience lines. Actually very sad esp with her education and real life knowledge. I did really bond with her and was nice to talk to someone who had been there, not just exams/licensing. And I accept any therapist is a human with their own stuff but....She had teamed with a male SA who also got his credentials as a therapist and ran group sessions for SA. Sounds good, everyone understands the whole thing (oh so many don't!). At the time it was going great, my SAWH going to the small groups, both of us having a therapist who life knowledge got it.

I know I need to find another CSAT for me but we have since moved to a smaller community. No CSATS around. I do journal, I do type hateful notes to get it out (email them to myself). Ultimately I'm just surprised 9 years later I can still get this much triggered and be so upset that my marriage was a sham.

Hi ladies,

It's been quiet here for a few weeks. I've been working on my taxes and I get so ticked off at how much I've spent on therapy. Not to mention the hassles with insurance to get whatever reimbursement they will give me. I swear they kick things back just to try to wear us out so that we'll give up.

I had therapy today, and he informed me we've had 127 hours of therapy (not including today.) It's not that I didn't do therapy off and on before, but I sure could have done without the betrayal and the trauma. Add in the three hours a week I usually spend in 12 step meetings, and I could have learned a new language or gotten in shape.

Also, I've decided it's time for a new therapist. This one has helped a lot but we seem stuck. Anyone have any recommendations for someone licensed in Colorado?

In other news, I read that Tiger Wood's ex is suing him and alleging some sort of sexual assault or sexual harassment. It's been a dozen years since he did inpatient treatment for SA. I have to wonder if my ex's gf, who opted for a relationship allegedly knowing about his history, will be in for the same awakening some day.

And a day late, happy International Day of the Woman.

I read your story and was seeing so many similarities in my relationship. My husband is a sex addict, an alcoholic, and has an addictive personality in general. Turns out I was his addiction for many years as I filled up his soul with loads of love, adoration, belonging, delicious sex -- and that all validated him immensly. However, as we drifted apart in recent years (partially due to his enmeshed mother-son relationship) then his addiction kicked into high gear without me knowing or suspecting a thing. It went on for 2 1/2 years until I found out.

My initial D-Day was on Aug 28, 2022 and I thought it was just a text thread from a stripper and his "massage" therapist.

Oh how very wrong I was...

Trickle truths and obsessive detective work on my part over the past 7 months & I discovered more truths that turn my stomach even to this day. On NYD was yet another disclosure where I learned he spent about $30k and had up to 50-75 women that I know of. It started in 2019 with heavy porn use & masturbation to self soothe his stress, then the "vanilla" porn wasnt enough so the porn escalated into S & M, in addition to "massages" involving hand jobs at seedy Asian massage parlors & simultaneous dating / hook up sites / escort & sugar baby websites.

I am beyond destroyed and recently attempted suicide. What he did absolutely destroyed me in every part of my mind, body, & soul.

His lies & hiding his past actions (either directly or by omission) do continue and I've grown more detached with each of the lies & trickle truths. He said he stopped his 'acting out' immediately upon discovery and has been clean since in that regard & He's thrown himself into every possible route of recovery that he can and he is taking it very seriously. As a result, our relationship is very different and he reports feeling tremendous relief at being discovered so that he doesnt have to keep up the facade of lies and dirty deeds anymore. He is finally becoming his authentic self and working very hard in therapy and groups to understand why he did these things and how to heal. I still dont know if I am willing to stay married to him. I really want to separate for a while and take a break so I can start taking care of myself. I'm so sick of it always being about him when I'm the one he completely destroyed. But, that's an addict. Its always about them and their self absorbed bullshit.

I experienced everything you mentioned. We immediately went into marriage counseling, which was a huge waste of time & money bc neither of us knew he was a sex addict!!! He claims not being able to recall details, yet at other times will remember exact details. He still lies of the details outright and by omission and says he does it to avoid hurting me further. He is trying very hard to be as honest as he possibly can -- at moments when he is able to be vulnerable to do so. The stories change. Little details come out each time we talk. He still struggles with addictive behaviors (smoking weed, drinking), but in therapy he truly is giving it 100% and tells me he never wants to be that seedy lying deceptive cheating person that he was.

What I can tell you is that there is ALWAYS more you don't know. It is highly unlikely that you will ever know 100% of what they've done. The minimizing of details was horrible. He's constantly focused on "Why cant you see all the progress I'm making ? Why can't we just go forward?" All the while I'm absolutely dying from paralyzing betrayal trauma and spiraling into a vortex of anger, pain and betrayal.

Disclosing details seems to bring about tremendous shame and vulnerability, which prevents them from opening themselves up to sharing details. ALL OF THE INFORMATION I HAVE DISCOVERED HAS BEEN ON MY OWN DETECTIVE WORK AND FROM BADGERING HIM CONSTANTLY FOR INFORMATION. Their sex addiction and self-soothing is built around lies and protecting those lies so that deceptive behavior is embedded within their thought patterns. Its safe to say that if they're opening their mouths...they are lying. It takes time and work to relearn that. and, yes...they almost ALWAYS escalate their behaviors... and there is ALWAYS more than what they tell you.

[This message edited by HeBrokeMe68 at 4:58 AM, Friday, April 7th]

I just wanted to respond to your pain, HeBrokeMe. I am not sure anything we can say will make the pain you feel less, however, please know that this man's sickness predated your ever meeting him, and his inability to cope with M or intimacy with you, is NOT your fault or through any lack of yours. I hope he has at least had the decency to admit that like mine did. Can you believe me? It is a sick man you married, all unknowingly, and the sickness isn't included in the "for better or worse" list of illnesses. It is a real "Get Out Of Jail" card for any spouse.

Mourn the loss of what you thought you had, just as we all sadly are forced to do. But please, LOVE YOU! You are LOVEWORTHY!

If you can find a trauma-informed counselor to work with, that would be a help, I feel. And maybe grt some needed distance from this man's issues.

Superesse,

I appreciate your kindness. Somedays the searing pain of betrayal trauma nearly chokes the life right out of me & its a constant fight just to keep going. Thankfully, its been 7 months and I can feel just a tiny bit of the anger & rage finally starting to dissipate and now I'm moving into the sadness & acceptance stages. I reached out to family & friends for support and pretty much everyone ghosted me, told me "You're strong. You'll get through this." or sent 1 or 2 lame text messages of "how are you?" and thats it. So, you're alone, isolated, confused, & suffering all while everyone abandons you and then you're wanting to rely on the person who hurt you to help heal you -- but its just not possible. I immersed myself in every form of therapy I could get my hands on, but nothing helps when you're stuck between anger, rage, and sadness. I became a rage monster. Couldnt eat or sleep. Angry & crying all the time. Unable to function or get out of bed. A total mess.

I will confess that discovering his sex addiction was a tiny bit of a relief bc I was able to relieve myself of much of the blame that I initially placed upon myself. I soon discovered its him, his hidden childhood trauma, his repressed upbringing, and his twisted enmeshed mother-son relationship. He is to blame for this and only he can fix himself. He never thought he'd get caught. He did much of the same activities (aka "acting out") in his prior marriage, but I entered at the tail end of the timeline where retaining sex workers via the internet is easier than buying groceries on Instacart, so instead of anonymous 'one-night stands' I have the task of dealing with over 50+ "massage" visits, escorts, and sugar babies he was seeing 1, 2, or 3 each weekly. He couldnt even buy me flowers, but he'd go through hell & high water across the states just to see his "sugar baby" for an evening. The high of the hunt, the game & the end prize was more addicting than anything else to him.

My husband was a people pleaser & a fake person all of his life. He hid his true self all his life. He was incapable of loving me in a true sense of the word. He was always guarded & private. A well educated guy - MBA, PhD. Calm, kind, very easy to be around. He was a loving father to my daughter. But yes...some things didn't quite add up as the red flags began to emerge.

The patterns, stories, and histories i hear from each betrayed partner of sex addiction are very much the same. The patterns with the addicts are also much the same. The escalation, the emotional patterns, the hunt, the lies, the defensiveness, the hiding, the sneaking around. Its all the same. But I'm not. I am not the same anymore. I have been forever changed. I hate him for that. I hate him for what he did to me.

He knows what he has done. He knows what he put at risk. He knows that NOW he finally feels true love for me that I am unable to reciprocate that true love. He knows I have hope, but with eyes wide open this time and not grace will be granted for any mishaps. I now love myself more than I love him and he will, unfortunately, never be able to have that same genuine unconditional love that he once had from me. He lost a good woman and he knows it. He had everything that most people work their entire lives to have. He trashed it. He knew what he was doing was wrong, but he chose to continue and even became more brazen about almost putting his cheating right out in the open. So, going forward:

-I have a plan in place if he chooses to "act out" again.

-I have made it clear to him what those boundaries are and if he indulges again -- then I'm walking away.

-I am willing to walk away...without warning or a word...if that time comes. Plans are in place.

-I am now letting go of some of the gory details so they don't rule every moment of my thoughts.

-I see him as a different person now. My guards will always be up.

-I am allowing myself more compassion and learning to love myself more than I ever have before.

-When I'm ready, I'll get back into IC & SAA meetings.

-I lost 25 lbs and am back to the gym. New face, new look, new body, new wardrobe. New me.

[This message edited by HeBrokeMe68 at 7:40 PM, Friday, April 7th]

HeBrokeMe68 - so much of what you say resonates with me. I'm not sure I can be all that helpful to you but I can/will support you. I'm now 8 years out which I cannot believe. I stayed for my own health reasons. Also I was the saver/scrimper in the relationship and most of what we have and own are thanks to me. I sure as heck wasn't giving half to him.

I'd like to think if I was body healthy when I had my Dday I would have left. But I'm here. I do love him but I am not in love with him. His SA actions snuffed all that out and it cannot come back. As you said "I am not the same anymore. I have been forever changed. I hate him for that. I hate him for what he did to me." That totally sums up my feelings. I WAS head over heels for him and would have done anything for him. But what did he do back? Strip clubs, prostitutes, dirty libraries, massages and all else. He truly cannot make up for that.

I chose not to tell anyone. My whole family loves him and thinks we are a great couple (gag). That is still best for me since I'm with him. But not being able to release is hard on me. I do journal to get my nasty thoughts out of me - for the moment at least.

I was more or less "settled" for a few years. I married it, I chose not to leave it so I accept it. But over the years he had 4 major surgeries and I moved heaven and earth to keep working and still take care of him. 3 of those were pre d-day and I was innocent. I recently had 3 surgeries and he was a good nurse BUT he had to tell everyone he was making all the meals, doing laundry, vacuuming, etc. He really just has to have the attention. I don't actually want attention but omg the difference when he's got to step up to the plate (and we're retired, not at all the same as the hoops I went through). Somehow the attention he needs while I'm the one with the issues is rubbing me wrong and snapping me out of my accepting of him and his foibles and staying with him. And I've been watching him (synchronized ipads) looking at soft porn. A hole. He did all the things initially but stopped that because not a lot of resources around our retirement place. Easy out, he could have tried harder or driven further. I say once an addict always an addict.

And I agree with your summation "I see him as a different person now. My guards will always be up." Do we really want to live with our guards up? I don't and yet my guard is always up. I try to move to indifferent, I don't care what you do. But in reality I do care what he does.

You reference how much money he spent. I said I was the scrimper, saver, coupon clipper. I always said I don't want flowers because waste of money. They cost a lot and done in a week. And then I found out how much he was paying for his addiction and said hell yes I get flowers weekly. I don't mean that cuz still think regularly they are a waste of money. Yet NOW for our anniversary he buys me flowers. I say thanks but want to say F off. Your stupid flowers on my anniversary mean zero. You cannot undo what you did and you can't buy me enough to replace the dollars wasted on your addiction. How about live a true life?

I started by saying not sure I can help you. But maybe my current unvarnished thoughts are good for you to think through. And Supresse (stayed) has said she has a roomie. And I know one other member seems to have decided the same and no longer posts thinking similar to me and can't be helpful.

I know you're in early days and I know it's hell. Keep yourself in therapy and remind yourself you're going through major trauma. Be kind to yourself. Take care of yourself. And none of us were blind or stupid, addicts are master cons.

HeBrokeMe, (temporarily, let us think) when I read your last post, I was going "Yup, Yup, YUP..." until I got to the part where your SAWH has advanced degrees; that was a shocker. My SAWH didn't go to University, he went into the military for 8 years. Was a bachelor at 39, and I thought I truly had stumbled upon the world's last Virgin! (He was a total workaholic in a man's sport, travelled constantly with a team, and claimed he had "never had a girlfriend." When he once admitted he took an AIDS test back in the 1980's, I was like "So, wait...Were you involved in any homosexual activities, or something else?" He swore "No, I just got freaked out when I had a bad cold I couldn't shake, because of all the news about it..." Stupid me, at age 42, I bought that honkin' lie, probably because I remembered the hysteria when HIV first came out...and he was the very image of The Michelin Man (big tall grossly overweight guy, couldn't get a date....)

See what I mean? This was before the age of internet and cell phones, girls! I really had a blind spot, because I thought prostitutes were to be found only around Naval Bases (Why I thought that was because...get this news: my first WH was a Vietnam Vet in the Navy and used to tell me right out about his wild times in Asia...)

Devastated Dee used to post here even after she dumped her SAWH. If she were still here, I think she would tell you that your plan, while a noble effort, is signing you up for a painful life path. She tried to R with a guy who was also a drug user. Honestly, from my experience too, the anger issue is soooo aging. It eats at your immune system, ages your skin, makes circles under your eyes. All because of hanging in and hoping for some miraculous change!! If I had it to do over again, NOPE! But I believed the "I'll never do this again" lines, too. Until he did the same, 12 long painful years, later.

I stayed for my own reasons and I think I "did it to myself" by staying engaged in this broken marriage even as a Roommate. He is fine with that distance, whereas I lost my husband in 2002, and what took his place is what I still live around today. The selfishness I still see in his thinking drives me nuts more days than not. even though I don't think he is acting out since his arrest in 2014. (I haven't updated my 2017 profile but nothing much has changed, other than he has been white-knuckling and 'working on his issues' in ways I can't feel or see, and he swears counselors are useless. I tend to agree, if you don't open up and get honest!!)

My advice would be to put your mind on getting the D going, and see if you don't have a weight lift off you once you have the Separation Agreement ready to present to him. I know it was a huge relief to me to get that done in 2014, but I changed it to a strong Post-Nup for the duration...and here I still sit, no progress from him.

You could always take the man back if you really were to see CHANGE. I didn't leave because it was MY house he moved into, and he really had no motivation to make that major effort. The fact that yours did this in his first marriage too, makes for less optimism that he will really see the light, but theoretically I suppose it could happen. Are you really going to wait and see? Progress is going to be painfully slow for this man's lifetime issues, I can promise that. He might think he's making progress but to you, it's like waiting for them to relive their childhood and teenage years, so they can emotionally mature enough to be in an adult relationship. Some are so damaged they never do.

Meantime, HUGS to all you beautiful ladies here! Try to focus on the Grace of God this day. And every day! HE loves us!

Oh how wonderful it is to finally have a group that understands the sex addiction struggle !!

dontsaylovely: Its almost as if I am living with 2 different people - Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde -- one of them I love dearly and crave to spend every moment with. The other, I hate and would love nothing more than to make him feel all the pain of being betrayed by someone you loved unconditionally. I understand why you stayed. Its never easy to walk away from a man that you loved, nor is it easy for health or financial reasons. We all have our reasons for staying or leaving, but what I find so hard is the judgement we all receive from others especially when they know so little of our situations. Its never easy and its a double edge sword. My daughter would be devastated to be without her father ! The stakes are so much different when you're not 20 years old, no kids, no bonded finances, etc. Anyways, I tried reaching out to others and got nothing. So many "friends" that I'd helped through brain surgery, spousal abuse, troubles, etc and been there for them just simply ghosted me. Even my own sisters ! I can imagine that you probably felt very trapped, angry, & betrayed in your situation and likely feeling a tremendous amount of bitterness and resentment for him, especially after taking care of him through several surgeries BEFORE you discovered his addiction behaviors. The self absorbed part of sex addiction just makes me so frustrated.

Superesse: Yes, the graduate degrees led me to grant him leeway in areas that i would have otherwise called bullshit on. Sadly, I'm discovering that highly educated and high profile careers are not unique to sex addictions (or any addictions in general). In fact, they flourish. Its the perfect breeding ground. Attorneys, doctors, politicians, entertainers, financiers...they're attracted to the power part of it and most come from unsupportive / unloving family structures that practically condition men to self-soothe right from the start.

My WH denied he ever had a drinking problem. Even after 2 DUI's he denied it. But now, he calls himself and 'addict' openly and I can truly say that he has thrown himself into recovery in every way possible. CSAT, IC, SA meetings, workbooks, podcasts, etc. He does it all everyday. He will not even masturbate without telling me and now he has a hard time even watching porn WITH ME, on my request. He is working on being open & transparent in every part of his life now, but its not a magic change that happens overnight. He has disclosed many details of his activities, but honestly there is no peace either way. Its the unknown, or the known evils and they are both horrible. BUT, with me he has finally been able to experience true love & intimacy for the first time in his life and it has brought him to tears when he realizes what he has missed out on. He now realizes the costs of his actions and all that he lost in himself, as well as in me and our family. He truly wants to be a better person and is doing everything he can to make that happen for himself. If he was not, I can promise that I'd have been gone several months ago. I can only hope he keeps it up. Its so painful to be in love with someone so much and have them do this to you. I cannot survive another betrayal.

Here is the twist: I was a former cheater for most of my young adult life and I finally did the decades of work. I am living proof that "once-a-cheater, always-a-cheater" does not apply to everyone. I am also a survivor of decades of child sexual abuse (thats why I cheated), so I can see his actions a little differently than perhaps others can. However, the betrayal trauma came down upon me with a force I never anticipated. I am able to sometimes be empathetic to him, but its not easy. He duped me pretty good with his fake act of being a rich, educated, upstanding, all around lovable kind of guy. It was all a lie. Sadly, I do understand that its possible he will cheat again and I have accepted the fact that I cannot change that. He does have the tools to turn this around and be a better person. We can have a completely new relationship, but my eyes are open this time around. He knows i will walk without a word once I have confirmation of that.

For now, I am focusing on myself and loving myself more than anyone else ever will. Its about me now.

I am so grateful for all you ladies here !!

[This message edited by HeBrokeMe68 at 2:48 AM, Tuesday, April 11th]

A new book that might be of interest:

A Light in the Dark: The Hidden Legacy of Adult Children of Sex Addicts, by Kenneth M. Adams et al.

Devastated Dee used to post here even after she dumped her SAWH. If she were still here, I think she would tell you that your plan, while a noble effort, is signing you up for a painful life path.

I know it's been a month since this post, but yes, 100%. I think this kind of behavior breaks a relationship no matter what the WS does in the following years. Like Superesse says, she loves him but isn't in love with him. I don't think that comes back. Regular cheating is bad enough. This kind of cheating that falls into addict territory is an extra kind of threat for the rest of the marriage. The sheer volume of it, the ease of it, the realization that they will always want to do it because it was an addiction...nah. That's like living with a pyromaniac who's fighting the urge all the time to set the house on fire while you sleep. And they're super good at hiding it. No one wants to play marriage police indefinitely. It's horrible for your mental and physical health. I left nearly 5 years ago and I'm very happy now. I'm beyond grateful not to be living with that hanging over my head. The last thing I ever wanted to do was try and make myself love, trust and respect someone who did that to me. It was antithetical to everything in my soul.

Hi everyone! It’s been a while since I last posted sept 22 I think…. Things haven’t really changed they’ve only multiplied in my mind ever since SLAWH raped me. It’s that final nail in the coffin that I can’t escape, I can’t make sense of and I don’t think I can ever forgive or forget. I’m just living in survival mode now, trying to get through each individual hour of each day the best I can. I’m sorry this is such a miserable post but you beautiful people are the only ones that understand and I have no one to talk to in confidence. I’m struggling to find any reasons to go on, I see no happiness in my life, no future, only pain physically and emotionally and I’m doing everything to hang on in there in the hope of a miracle cure to my sadness. I won’t do anything to myself so panic I’ve worked that out already because I’d never ever leave my children with that damage but it’s a constant thought, it’d be wonderful to escape being in this emotional state forever or even just for a few hours 😔

Hello.

(Mandy. This will be long. Read what I said about your own safety first below!)

I am just hopping on in support of this topic, because I am so glad to see that SI has made a place of support for this.

Years ago, on my first SI account, I explained that I was arriving in need of support for many isolating variables in reconciliation.

One of them was that on DDay and in our reconciliation process (in 2013), my WH Mr Uxor revealed that not only had he been seeing a counselor during break-ups with his married COW to try overcome his attraction for her, AND that he kept going back to her but wanted to stop, BUT also that he had kept from me years of lying about many deceptions: Increasing porn use, no-physical contact flirtations with women around us that were about what acts they did with their husbands that resembled the porn he liked (including showing vacation beach and almost not swimsuited photos, which lingerie items they ordered online and even showing the item by lifting the side or their skirt or unzipping shorts when crossing paths with work or running errands etc.) Some were acquaintances. One was also a close friend.

And they were always the "lonely victim wife whose husband didn’t accomplish what Mr Uxor did and really could not satisfy them like maybe Mr Uxor might."

His fetish for porn was always "hero"d his ego.

Mr Uxor as the accomplished life skill and sexual skill rescuer. And it self-medicated his own accomplishment and social approval stress. He was accomplished and socially admired. Except to his family.

No support or admiration on my part was ever enough. I was not his family. I was not his fetish. I was destined to be a double fail.

But I was very skilled at managing any parts of his busy life he could not attend to. I was and am an irreplaceable convenience. (I still say am, because he is damned lucky I do not want the wheels to fly off for anyone near him. Myself. Our kids. We deserve the fruits of my efforts as much as his actions exploited them. For our family’s sake, I do use my abilities to keep our ship afloat. Because it is not just his ship. It is mine and ours too.)

Porn had been his go-to since family conflict and girl problems accelerated in his teens. And his family, though very religious, philanthropic and leveraged with social clout, felt porn was healthy and cultural though not to be openly discussed with the world - just hinted at. Because their deeper actions may cause social rejection. That could ruin their faith based reputations!

And porn is not all they lie about.

They were his first enablers for both porn and deception.

Because it was compulsive and he could not control the urge, because he progressed from:

1. covert porn (though I actually did not originally think of it as toxic as it became. Early in our marriage, I just asked him to not hide it. But he did anyway, because women needing rescue was not my profile and he knew it. I did not feed the addiction. ) to live imitations in conversations as described above (lying to himself that if he did not "touch" he was ok),

2. to using other men to pointing out in front of me that their wives knew they take clients to strip bars as a part of business (then asking me to go with him to learn to dance for him so he would never go with the guys, then he loopholed to watch strippers online instead); then,

3. to an affair with married COW who asked what he liked when he watched porn, imitated it, then asked what I could not do and declared them a sexual match, (BUT, oops! then she was caught saying exactly the same thing to other men. she was looking for her new bank account. Her 3rd husband was terminally ill),

4. but he STILL thought he was the one she really LOVED…and so had been diagnosed with sex addiction even before DDay.

RESULT? It cost us time, money, family breakdown, marriage flatline, career reputation damage and trapped us from our dreams in more ways than I can describe.

I side-tracked…sorry.

When I first brought this info to the reconciliation forum, that porn had been his gate-way drug to affairs and betrayals, I had some support but also attacks on the concept. And I really did not have the stamina and at times - stomache - for another battle.

Obviously I had something to work with that many don’t. He was trying to get on the sex addict recovery wagon before I found out.

After DDay Mr Uxor also tried to tell me everything he could over a two week span. To give transparency at a pace and quantity I could
handle. There was a lot to handle.

To receive what I now know was about 95% of the truths, that fast, did have me leave room for some trickle truth to be true memory lapse.

I have learned that in the extremes of the psychological twists of sex addiction, some do have memory issues and they get worse the greater their fears and shame.

So…Mr Uxor did also get some credit for truly trying and giving me what I wanted to know as I said I was ready for it.

WHAT I HAVE LEARNED THAT IS USEFUL IN TEN YEARS SINCE THAT HISTORIC EARTHQUAKE IN MY LIFE:

1. Uncontrolled compulsion to cope with life in damaging ways defines a toxic state of addiction. SO - Uncontrolled compulsive sex acts ARE a toxic state of addiction.

2. Lies increase the toxicity because the people surrounding the addict are manipulated to allow the compulsion to be fed. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW YOU ENABLED WHEN YOU DID NOT KNOW YOU WERE WITH AN ADDICT OR THAT YOU WERE BEING LIED TO. But you are responsible for what you do once you DO know!

3. There are ways to manage addiction and ways for spouses (and families) who have been enmeshed within the toxic cycles to heal. Both mean new coping skills for everyone affected.

4. All addictions need AND deserve professional help that’s trained for that realm and has resources for the addiction. That includes therapists trained for sex addictions and who firmly believe it exists.

5. I reject anyone who says sex addiction does not exist. Sadly, too often, people will only accept alcohol and drug substance abuse as actual addiction. I politely move on from this - they are not helpful to anyone who deals with a spouse or family member who battles sex compulsion because it does not insert a mind altering substance into the body.

Flaw in that very wrong theory: There are many non-drug/alcohol compulsion addictions: gambling, or eating disorders, or gaming, or…(whatever consumes the compulsive inner drive).

Sex addiction exists!

6. For the betrayed…A counselor for myself who understands sex addiction was and IS critical. BECAUSE It is the only one of the many compulsions that has me LYING to myself that I am not enough as a spouse in how I look, dress, flirt and make love to my husband. How very cruel sex addiction is in this way! Even more cruel is to deny me help and support.

7. There is more support than ever before for this. But not all materials are a match. Not all programs are a match. (Eg. Mr Uxor is very spiritual. He does best with materials that match our faith. I don’t push my faith on others here. So won’t list them here. Some are in the resource library, though.).

My mantra when I get glitchy is “I DID NOT CAUSE IT, I CANNOT CHANGE OR CONTROL IT, I CANNOT CURE IT.”

Done - my job is me. Not Mr Uxor’s addiction.

8. We recently had trouble with a counselor who was not a good match for this situation.

Hind sight for me, now, I can see she was undoing my boundaries and edging toward me enabling compulsively related demeanors and mood swings in Mr Uxor. He was not required to fix himself. I was.

That also made it impossible for me to maintain my own healthy boundaries and safe marriage reconciliation platforms.

If this happens to you, revert back to good support materials steps until you and/or your spouse find new help.

Mr Uxor has recently found a great personal counselor who fully supports who I have to be as a spouse who DOES NOT ENABLE sex addiction or the manipulative behaviors associated with it.

Why? Even if he is “dry”? Toxic behaviors that break relationship stability also have to be worked on. Mr Uxor struggles to self regulate emotions. Me enabling by placating does not build him a “set” to deal with life. It can even spiral him down.

Giving a fix of heroine to an addict will not permanently stop the craving for heroine to come back.

Placating toxic behaviors big or small will not help me or Mr Uxor.

Let go of any counselor that makes it your job to please anyone else when your own needs are being stolen from by the cycle of addiction.

8. There is an important word that scares the bejeezZes out of both a wayward who struggles with sex addiction recovery OR their betrayed spouse/significant other.

"Relapse". My advice? Have a plan.

I will not ever tell someone to stay or go. But even a rough "what if" plan will create a "go to" place of start up action for both parties.

Eg. WaywardSA: "If I relapse on the web, my phone, toxic people I know, or feel the tug of my addiction, I will call my counselor/sponsor/support group leader and make plans on how to stop again and how to tell my spouse.”

Eg BetrayedPerson of WSA: “If they come to me before I find out I will take care of myself by going to my support systems. Then we can discuss steps they plan to take to help them and steps I will take to feel safe.”

Or

“If I discover proof of lies I will set safe boundaries to take care of myself first by (__________) then (_________).”

Those are just examples.

Summary:

Sex addiction is real and is now much more recognized and prevalent than was known even a decade ago.

It is as damaging as any other addiction and can destroy carreer, families, marriages, finances and even draw good people into criminal realms.

It is betrayal and lies that make the addiction increasingly dangerous. The more the lies, the greater the danger.

It is treatable, but can relapse.

Relapse plans are needed.

Every spouse has the right to be heard and respected in their needs to be safe, and set healthy boundaries just like with any other addiction.

Every addict deserves to have professional help and to be valued and of worth. When saying and doing healthy things they deserve at the very least, to not be sabotaged.

Every situation is different and both the wayward and betrayed in SA deserve that respect as they learn to navigate what is best for them.

!AND!

This is my stubborn deeply rooted take-away from a decade in:

If I see anyone or anything that KNOWS the wayward is addicted to and struggling control their compulsion, who then uses that knowledge to manipulate them into further destructive behavior, I will call it out. They are NO better than drug lords, nicotine industry greed and con artists. They are an exploiter.

They do not actually care about the addict no matter what the addict believes. This is why a SA has to go clean and learn skills to stay clean from their fix. Live human or otherwise.

The addict has to know that just sniffing the bottle (allowing their addiction triggers near) is a danger to them and their loved ones.

The danger IS real.

This brings me to all of US here.

My dear SI friends…do NOT mistake me on this. If your sex addicted loved one has a dime to their name, a mind to serve and become a slave to the sex world, a muscle to move someone else’s selfish mountains, and do NOT do the lifetime work of recovery; then, they CAN be blackmailed financially or emotionally by sexual compulsions or fetishes and the people and industries that promote them…

and YOU are in the way.

!YOU!

What happens to you does NOT matter to the sex dealer on the other side of your spouse/significant other.

Keep yourself safe first! Always!

Remember, even in a divorce, someone may be whispering sweet fetishes in their ear while convincing them you are the problem. The sex addicts brain may believe you should be left destitute or even in harm’s way.

Be safe. Be smart.

Just hoping this helps someone.

(I keep editing as I am writing from a phone and see glitches, errors and need for clarity.)

[This message edited by Uxoragain at 7:34 PM, Sunday, June 4th]

Hi Ladies,

I haven't been on for a while other than to pop in and post a resource. I finally had a moment to catch up on some of the posts and I want to just say that my heart hurts for all of you, but I'm also always in awe of the honesty and strength emotional abuse survivors have.

A few comments.

until I got to the part where your SAWH has advanced degrees; that was a shocker.

Superesse: as HeBrokeMe68 said, the SA & narcissism and graduate degrees can go hand-in-hand. My exSAWH is an oncologist, - yup, he gets paid to examine women's breasts. Ya, there's usually supposed to be someone else in the room, but clearly there wasn't the day he made out with a patient .... And his family of narcissistic alcoholics are also high functioning professionals, who are feted and honored and have their name on the walls of important buildings. The similarities I see in partners of SAs is that we mostly come from dysfunctional homes, felt unseen and unheard growing up, feel unloveable and alone and often were swept off our feet by lovebombing. Some of my recovery friends got married out of high school and immediately started having babies and stayed at home; others have multiple degrees and teach at colleges, but there is just that thread that seems to run through so many of us.
I imagine it's the same for the addicts. They mostly seem to be enmeshed with their mothers, come from a dysfunctional family of origin, and many had a profound trauma, often sexual, in childhood. They are masters at compartmentalizing, which is what makes them so good at lying and deceiving. Because they 'truth' they may tearfully confess to us is the 'truth' for that box only - not the other boxes that they aren't thinking about at that moment.

Anyways, I tried reaching out to others and got nothing. So many "friends" that I'd helped through brain surgery, spousal abuse, troubles, etc and been there for them just simply ghosted me. Even my own sisters !

HeBrokeMe68 - I was at a workshop recently and Rhyll Crowshaw made a statement about her SAWH Steven. "I wished he had died because then someone would have brought me a casserole" and 40 heads in the room all nodded in unison since we all knew what she was talking about. It's so hard to find people who get it, who support us, even after we spell it out. This cost me my relationship with my sister, who told me after a year that it was just a mindset and I needed to move on, and no one else in my family showed up for me either. That's why I attend one of the 12 step anon meetings for betrayed partners of SAs, because those women get it, and usually show up for me in a way others can't/don't. (Google Steven Crowshaw's story if you aren't familiar with it. He's in recovery and very open about his journey.)

Dee - Nice to see you're still around.

Speaking of moving on, I'm three years out and most days are OK. Some days are good, even great. But I had a major trigger the other day and last night I was in full blown PTSD, so I ended up calling 988, the national crisis hotline. I never would have imagined I would ever do something like that, but I needed some contact and didn't know who to turn to. The fellow on the other end was kind and supportive and validating - it's what I needed to get through the night. So remember to keep that number in your toolbox ladies. You never know when it might come in handy.

I heard someone say recently: The past is the compost we use to grow our future. Here's to the future then.

Speaking of moving on, I'm three years out and most days are OK. Some days are good, even great. But I had a major trigger the other day and last night I was in full blown PTSD, so I ended up calling 988, the national crisis hotline. I never would have imagined I would ever do something like that, but I needed some contact and didn't know who to turn to. The fellow on the other end was kind and supportive and validating - it's what I needed to get through the night. So remember to keep that number in your toolbox ladies. You never know when it might come in handy.

I am so sorry, BlackRaven. I'm glad you took the steps to get help in that moment. This really does damage us profoundly. My experience is that this does keep getting easier as time goes on. I hope that's the case for you. I bet it will be. You're strong and smart and capable. And changed, yeah. I think going through this changes all of us.

Hi Ladies! Good to "see" you, Dee and glad that life is continuing a better turn for you.
BlackRaven, I've never been able to meet other women IRL who went through what I have, other than my late sister, and this part of what you have observed in other spouses of Sex Addicts really hits home with me:

The similarities I see in partners of SAs is that we mostly come from dysfunctional homes, felt unseen and unheard growing up, feel unloveable and alone...

Maybe this is why one of my "hot buttons" is being with a man who not only has the profile of a CSA victim/SA perpetrator, but also has many autistic traits, which makes him unable to really respond effectively to anything I might say or feel. Goodness. UGH. WHY DID I THINK THAT WAS GOOD ENOUGH??? Hmmmmm....

This last November, I lost my younger brother at age 67 and just now the other brother, 14 months my junior, is in ICU with massive brain damage from multiple strokes (both were/are substance abusers, a major factor in their poor health. This (estranged) brother has always had major SA traits, including having admitted to me his history of emotionless sex with over 100 women and my finding out in 2009 that he had molested my younger sister when she was 9 years old. I believe he has a personality disorder, but I'm not paid enough to diagnose all this Family of Origin stuff.)

But the reason your assessment hit me is that I'm lately realizing if we don't get down to the ugly roots of this stuff earlier in our lives, we will probably come to a point where it life ends, and then we have to make sense of a hell of a lot of garbage!

I hope you are doing better?

@Supresse

I have been taking in all you have been posting. It is like food for the stamina of a survivor with a SAS.

Above you referenced this advice:

["You must redefine your relationship with this man, because he may not ever have the capacity to be a husband to you!"]

I think this nails it for anyone, reconciled, choosing to stay married but unreconciled if their SAS is not dry, or divorced(ing).

A renewed view of the SAS has to be locked in or the ambiance of original dreams and plans for the marriage takes over again.

Even if what we dreamt of was healthy, reasonable and attainable, it did not happen or was tainted by what else was covertly happening.

But what we can have is a rebuilt life for ourselves that is healthy, reasonable and attainable.

To remain in denial gives the SA the control take down your self-care boat while their ship sinks like the Titanic. They won’t untie the ropes while they point to all the people saying it is not sinking!

We have to untether enough to not get dragged under with them.

If they get healthy, they can row their lifeboat out to us. We can see where to go from there. All humans are worthy of love in that we want good for them.

But never give up or step off your own boat again. Keep the two. In case they row back to the Titanic for another round with everyone going down screaming out their denials.

Supresse - you know how to stay afloat. It is not easy. But you are rowing strong with all that you face.

On support programs - I have an IC who treats SA. This helps me be understood.

Mr Uxor thought he had one - but it had gaps and did not progress on the SA issues. He now has one who is big on accountability and action. YAY!

We also had an MC for two years who would not respect that some things I would not do to bond with Mr Uxor was creating enablement for him acting out when he would be in addiction struggle irritability. She kept wanting me to be accountable for when he would not manage stress without disrupting my own stability designs I had built.

(Even SAS who are dry still have a struggle with navigating stress and triggers with new coping skills and without mood swings if life gives new stress and changes…and life always does.

Bonding and empathy can happen, but it cannot be a one way street and empathy has to be returned. Or one spouse becomes depleted. With Mr Uxor’s history, it was baffling that our MC kept putting me on the hot seat to be a giver, regardless, and also never or seldom receiver of empathy.

Mr Uxor’s current IC also agrees with me that I saw her increasingly demonstration flirtation non-verbals. He told and identified that
Mr Uxor has an issue with women getting too near because he ignores the early signals for female approval.

So when I saw the post above about the counselor leading the SA group with cleavage issues.

Yup. I get how mind-bending and defeating that feels. Hugss!)

We may try MC again someday. Right now we are working on suggested SA couples materials his IC gave us.

And because I live in a place where SA support and spousal support groups are very small and at times fall apart (my ICs info) online and distant support and accountability partners are recommended (Mr Uxor’s IC’s info).

I have an online group and I have a personal friend many states away who deals with the same with her husband.

I just started coming back here because of the problem we had with our MC.

It felt good since I have prior history on SI. I also had a friend here 10 years ago who has since passed away. Maybe I am back as a way of honoring her as I go through these changes and phases.

It took a long time to form my coping strategies. And I needed many.

(For anyone new to SAS survival, be patient, be safe, and be gentle to yourself)

[This message edited by Uxoragain at 4:39 PM, Monday, June 12th]

It's this first time I've been around in many years. Hey ya'll! your stories are encouraging, harrowing and heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing so transparently. You all got me through DD +1 year.

DDay was almost 8 years ago. We went through fire,but are happy and growing. New jobs, living in a lovely area, kids are growing. I have 3 classes before I gain my second degree. So much has changed.

Husband continues to change for the better. Just this month he told his testimony to his Church department co-workers. Without hesitation he shared his journey including the porn and infidelities. To all of his coworkers l. That's good right? I was praying that would happen years ago.

I am well, but I still struggle with invasive thoughts. Maui caught on fire 2 days ago and my thoughts have been racing...wandered to a time years ago when he was working there in the area without me. Did he solicit a women? I have a detailed written confession.....he has shared so much in the healing process. No Maui encounter. Why this random thing? So odd. I need to talk to him about this, but feel stupid.

Why did I feel the need to come back here after 6 years today? Reading everyone's stories in Just Found Out is like opening an old wound. Painful.

I'm trying to figure out what is still broken in me.

May God Bless you all and help you find peace through the pain.

My spouse is in recovery for SA, which occurred almost immediately after he got clean from substances 11 months ago. It turned my world upside down.

We are currently separated but he is pushing hard for things to go back to normal. A lot of "I love you", "I want to make you proud" and trying to plan trips and vacations.

He is working a 12 step program through SLAA with a sponsor in addition to working his NA program.

I keep feeling like maybe there’s hope for us- but then I go back and reread the texts and communications I have from his infidelities that occurred December ‘22 through May 2023 and all the pain comes back. I’m not sure if it’s good to look at these and remember or if I should stop and just focus on one day at a time.

It’s confusing. Most days I am feeling so so much better and happy, but the waves of sadness, panic and anxiety find their way back from time to time. Anger and resentment over the lies, the selfishness, and disbelief a someone I trusted could do that to his pregnant partner, to continue even after watching her give birth and love his child.

We are both in IC, both with addiction specialists- him to process his disease and me to process the trauma his addiction brought into our lives. Just feeling lost and hurt today.