SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We've been talking a lot which has been really good and helpful. Things seem to be going well even though we have tough conversations. I tend to do most of the listening - he has been talking a lot about his depression, the mistakes he's made, and the people he has hurt.

My WS talks about how the sex with others meant nothing to him and had nothing to do with me. I can understand that because he was cheating with sex apps (you can't get more meaningless) although he did see one woman for four months and one for two months. He says that sex with me is different and means a lot more. I can understand this too. He says that he has never stopped loving me and that this came about through his depression and childhood abuse (all types). His depression got worse after his job loss and the childhood trauma has returned because there are legal proceedings to protect children from his abusers and he has been subpoenaed (spelling?). This is also bringing up memories from his childhood.

What I'm having trouble with is if it meant nothing to him, then why did he keep doing it? Escape from reality? More stress is coming - will he cheat again? He says the cheating means more to me than him. Do they all feel that way? Also, how can it not have anything to do with me? Did he not think of me at all during all of this? Wasn't the lying and sneaking part of the thrill? He said he never meant to hurt me - he never thought he'd get caught.

Sometimes, I say that I thought he was just depressed. It didn't even cross my mind that he was cheating (until I caught him of course). He doesn't like that I say "just depressed" because he feels the cheating was part of the depression and made him feel worse. I don't say "just depressed" anymore, but I feel you can be depressed without cheating. I thought he was just sitting around the house very depressed. I was talking with my parents about hospitalizing him because I was so worried. I had no idea he had this other life in this world I didn't even know existed.

I don't know if any of this makes any sense.

Other things...

He has been making an effort with our kids which is something we've talked about. He detached from our marriage, and he also detached from our kids. He is dealing is "Look who's being a father now" and "did grandpa die? Then, why are you calling?" But he shrugs it off and keeps going which I am happy about. He is now up to date with what is going on in their lives which is nice. I

Oops, I hit post while typing...

I see that the kids see a big difference.

Yesterday, my daughter triggered me by talking about her schedule. He cheated around her schedule as well. I started to cry and had to leave the call. She then called my WS and told him I was crying and didn't know why. He called me immediately (I was so unhappy she called him) and pushed me to talk about it. I didn't want him to know I was crying. He said that his mistake was letting feelings build up and not talk to me. So, we talked and he reassured me.

I think these are good steps? Is this what R looks like?

Yes it’s what recovery looks like.

...if it meant nothing to him, then why did he keep doing it? Escape from reality?

Yep. It's not unlike a drug addiction or alcoholism. The brain doesn't care whether the sex is with a spouse or an AP; it still releases dopamine, oxytocin, endorphins, prolactin, etc. And just as with any other addiction, it's self-destructive.

He says the cheating means more to me than him.

The impact is the difference. For most people, the betrayal of infidelity is a profound shock and a severe emotional and psychological trauma. He is not experiencing the same impact.

When (if) he begins to feel the weight of his own guilt, shame and remorse, the infidelity might mean more to him than he's currently willing to face and admit. When (if) he realizes the extent of the damage he's done to himself, he'll start to see the betrayals differently.

The first person a wayward betrays is himself. Right now, I'd imagine, he doesn't understand this. When (if) he does, you'll notice a change in his attitude.

Also, how can it not have anything to do with me?

Because it's not about you. It's about his issues. Nothing you ever said or didn't say, nothing you ever did or didn't do, would have made any difference at all.

In all my years here I've tried to identify one thing - just ONE - that we all have in common and there's nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I cannot identify one single trait that we all share that could possibly justify infidelity.

It's not about you.

BTW, infidelity is not a mistake; it's a choice. Big difference. Don't let him get away with absolving himself, even partially, by calling his deliberate decisions mistakes.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 5:29 PM, Friday, May 29th]

ShockedShattered I think the line that stood out most to me was

I had no idea he had this other life in this world I didn't even know existed.

as that feels like such a huge part of the trauma as it is not only the cheating itself but discovering that while you were worried about his depression and trying to support him - there was an entirely different reality running alongside the one you thought you were living in. I also struggle with the phrase "it meant nothing" because if something truly means nothing, people do not usually risk so much for it - whether it was escape/validatio/avoidance or something else it still had enough meaning for him to keep choosing it. What does sound positive to me is that he is showing up for difficult conversations making an effort with the children and responding when you are triggered and that does sound more like recovery than avoidance.

When my FWH said something like that to me I told him he was right. I was nothing to him. I meant nothing at all and I was going to act accordingly. That’s why the 180 is so important. You can and will go on without them and there’s no reason to take it personally since we meant nothing to them.
That’s a stinger to the heart.
He also said he never meant to hurt me…my reply was no, you wanted to kill me. Again, if we mean nothing to them and they didn’t mean to hurt us then what’s the big deal about moving on without them?

I remember early on during our reconciliation, actually I think it was within the first few days of d-day, my wife telling me you are giving this way too much weight, it wasn't that serious. I think I replied with something along the lines of I am considering divorce over this so yeah I think you're the one not giving it enough weight

Think of the cheating (in this case) like an addiction. Similar to over eating or over spending etc.

The cheater knows it’s wrong but the temporary "feel good" they get from it is enough to make them do it again. And it becomes a cycle. They want to stop, pressure mounts, they cheat, they get a release, then feel shame. Repeat again and again.

I’m not excusing the behavior but trying to help you understand it.

I had a client who continually bailed out his wife because of credit card debt. She’s run up the cards, he’d pay them off. Again and again. She couldn’t stop and he couldn’t do anything to stop it either. Vicious cycle. She’d cry and make promises but at the end of the day, she didn’t stop buying crap they didn’t need. Because the act of buying in the moment wiped away the shame and guilt she suffered post - buying spree.

So it may have meant nothing to him. But that doesn’t negate the trauma you suffered as the result of his cheating.

When my FWH said something like that to me I told him he was right. I was nothing to him. I meant nothing at all and I was going to act accordingly. That’s why the 180 is so important. You can and will go on without them and there’s no reason to take it personally since we meant nothing to them.
That’s a stinger to the heart.

Absolutely.

Brava cat lady.

If something means nothing to you and you throw your partner under the bus to get that "nothing", there is just about no clearer declaration of what is your value in their eyes.

Less than zero, good to trash when the zero is available.

Is the stupidity of minimization to preserve their own broken ego that blinds them to the fact of how much you are nothing more than a safety net for them. To be discarded at leisure.

But the ego is safe.

Fortunately, you can accept and appreciate what it means: they don’t really care. They are not there yet since they minimize the impact of their abuse on you.

Maybe they will never be, surely they won’t unless they stick the minimization in their cavernous dark hole and begin to take full accountability for their sexual and emotional abuse and the trauma they inflicted upon you.

Consequences. Humans learn through consequences.
It meant nothing? Duly noted.

Then I have now clarity on how to reassess my own scale of value.
You are going to receive the same value you placed me in your personal scale.

Consequences.
They sure are sweet