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Just Found Out :
This is not the kind of club I wanted to join.....

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Survivor24 (original poster new member #84314) posted at 3:19 AM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

(Don't start unless you have 30 minutes or so free time, you've been warned...lol)

It was 2 AM on a Tuesday in September. "Hey, are you awake?" she asked in a voice I recognized as her stoned tone. We both hit the marijuana vapes in the evenings so it isn't unusual for her to be stoned but she'd been adding in Kratom lately and was a bit extra that night. "Not really" I replied. She gave it about 5 seconds then "I really need to talk to you about something......how would you feel about an open marriage?" Having heard an obvious red flag I respond, "Well, I'm awake now".

And that's how it started. Together for 10 years, married for 7 at that point. The remainder of the conversation was a blur but to sum up, the guy she told me not to worry about is now a guy I have to worry about. For the next 2 weeks I'm buried in my feelings and trying to trust her that they have not actually physically done anything. To trust that it's only been chatting (which I was aware of as he's part of a group of mutual friends and we all chat with each other) and that they only broached the topic impulsively with each other "If I was single, would we date each other?" after many tokes on the magic vape.

At the end of the 2 weeks I had not been able to verify anything really. Her phone stayed locked having gone from PIN number I knew to thumbprint and becoming an appendage that only got put down when she showered or slept. But what I did find was completely by chance. I'm supposed to do my business expenses monthly but they'd stacked up about 6 months. In the process of getting cell phone bills pulled I noticed that while she had told me she went no-contact with Mr. You Don't Have To Worry About Him the next day after the open marriage "discussion" that there were a bunch of calls and text messages to his number. Strange, I thought, as I'd asked many times over the past few weeks "You haven't been talking to him have you?". "No, of course not, not since that night when she told him she'd crossed a boundary with me and knew she needed to cut him loose.

It kept eating at me. I had verifiable proof she'd lied. I know a lot about technology but even I can't fake phone records. Then I remembered that we share a laptop and we happen to use the same profile. A profile that had saved passwords because who wants the hassle of keeping up with your personal security? I waited for my moment and she eventually went shopping on her own. Knowing she was at least 45 minutes away I cracked open the laptop, determined to get into her Facebook account and surely discover evidence of her affair. The Facebook login page filled the screen and the username and password fields magically populated with the keys to her kingdom. In my haste I had not considered one fact, that she might have enabled multi-factor authentication. Which of course she had. So, about 2 seconds after hitting the login button the multi-factor warning displayed and my heart sank into my feet. 5 seconds later my cell rang. "Did you just try to get into my Facebook account!?!" she said in a tone honestly more demanding than accusatory. One deep breath later I confessed. I've never been a good liar. Probably why I never picked up on poker. "Pack your shit! I want you gone!!".

About 35 minutes later she arrived and we began having a heated conversation, well at first. As a very unsuccessful codependent I caved pretty quick and begged her not to divorce me. I sold out myself out and let her win. "I believe you that it was only talking and one bad decision brought on by too much THC." She continued to vent at me. Apparently I'd been ignoring her pleas for years. Pleas that apparently fell on deaf ears as I neglected her in favor of work or coaching little league (yes, she actually said me coaching my own son in little league was tantamount to neglecting her needs). I hadn't understood or believed her that she has fibromyalgia, that I think she's lying about all of it and if I really loved her I'd have known that she'd never cheat on me. That's why she was doing the "honorable" thing and asking for the open marriage.

Once we got calmed down she graciously agreed to stay together but that I was on thin ice with her. My internal fear of rejection was joyous with relief. I began smothering her with affection. We held hands for the first time in years when we were out. We cuddled during the day for no reason other than to be near her. I brought her coffee in the morning without being asked. I rubbed her back while she was sick from some bad gas station burrito as she hurled into the toilet. Every action met with a similar response...."why couldn't you have been this way the whole time? why did you wait until I screamed I wanted a divorce?" A lot of tears were shed. A lot of listening to how I'd broken her with my neglect. How I'd never made her feel important and treated her like garbage. After 10 years I'd learned to keep my mouth shut, nod my head, and agree. Yes, I must have been a shit husband right? What else could explain her feelings?

If you've made it this far know that I'm being facetious in my tone here. If you like dark comedies you'll get what's going on here.

I'll switch from Story Mode into Flashback Mode for a bit. My first marriage lasted 10 years. Married the first girl I slept with in college at the age of 20. 12 years later I'm living on my own, separated but not officially divorced, dating but not seriously, and usually with my 3 kids with me full time. Their mother, former love of my life, was always too busy to keep them. Somehow living in the house we had bought together, in the town that I grew up in, with no hobbies or steady job to speak of, she just didn't get enough "me time". I met my second wife in that 12th year. She was different in a way I didn't know I was missing. Sex, people. The best sex of my life. Sex so good it made me finalize my divorce. My ex tried to sink her hooks into my new girlfriend. First by employing the "we should all be able to get along, for the kids sake" tactic. New girlfriend played along until it turned into "he always did this one thing that drove me crazy (in a bad way), don't you hate it when he does that to you too?" Recognizing the situation turning sour we spent the next few years in constant battle with my ex who finally gave up, down to her last dime, called me and gave me an hour to pick up my youngest (6 years old at the time and the only one that willingly stayed with her still), then vanished 4 hours away to live with family.

The next few years were a blur of vacations, hosting parties, drinking excessively, and having lots of sex. Making up for lost time I suppose when your ex's idea of spicing up sex as leaving the light on. There were also arguments though that crept in, mostly related to how the kids treated her. My new wife had a kid of her own that was already 14 when we met. My oldest was 12 at the time so they actually got along well. But it would seem my ex had "weaponized" the children against my new wife. "She's making them hate me!" I would hear. "If those kids don't start acting the way I expect them to then they'll have to go back to live with her!". "How can you let them be so mean to me!?" Admittedly I was a bit of "Disney Dad". Professional Peacekeeper. "They're just kids" I'd say with the patience of a saint but the backbone of a wet noodle. My own childhood trauma had led me to the point where I was just "trying to break the cycle". So I was too nice. I didn't discipline enough. Years later I'd be told by my new wife that along with being a shit husband she'd also raised my kids for me because I wasn't able to discipline them or teach them respect. "I should have broken up with you the minute you moved him in", talking about my youngest who was 6 at the time (you know, the one I was given an hour to go pick up before bio-mom disappeared for a few years.

Aside from arguing about kids everything was great I thought. We were close. Years went by before we ever spent even one night apart from each other. We worked at the same job for a few years. Old bitter married people and single women hated how adorable we were, jealous that we seemed so happy. And I was. I mean, wouldn't you if your wife came to work with you every day and gave you blowjobs several days a week on lunch breaks? Even when I moved to a new job which was completely work from home we texted constantly. We ate a lot of drive thru food (dinner by numbers) and found a way each weekend to spend what little was left in our bank account. Food, sex, party (but not as often as we once did), argue about kids...rinse and repeat. Then we had to move.

We'd been renting from her parents who lived a few houses down. By this time her only child was now 19 and moving back to town after graduating high school early, getting married without inviting me or my wife (even I thought not inviting your mom was cold), moving several states away then moving back only 2 years later. Apparently we were being kicked out so that my in-laws could let their only granddaughter have the house. We found a doublewide to rent from some a nice lesbian couple that flipped houses (not that it matters but people love little details). Our credit was so poor we wouldn't have qualified for 100 percent interest to finance a Big Mac but they worked with us. I was able to get my wife hired at my new company. We were both remote. Both working side by side again being adorable to our virtual coworkers and confusing people on Zoom calls (is that your sister or your wife?).

I didn't know it at the time but it was the beginning of the (at this point most likely) end of our relationship. We were both still morbidly obese. My oldest daughter had fled to live with her bio-mom almost immediately after graduating high school. Constant arguments with my wife no doubt led to that decision. I began storing loads of resentment for my wife driving my child away out of town. I'd already been resentful of how my wife never seemed to want to do anything except sit in bed, watch tv, play on her phone, and eat. That nice work from home job was ignored until it was minutes before a meeting. Bare minimum effort around the house. No cleaning (I picked up on that the first visit to her house years before), great cook but only when she felt like it because there was something she wanted to eat. Otherwise it was drive thru or I had to come up with something. This was about the time we met our new circle of friends and the guy who would become the "one you don't have to worry about".

I didn't pay much attention to my life for years so recollecting all this in the right order gets difficult. I focused on my job which ate up 50 hours a week or so and got back into playing video games. She seemed to be happy being left alone in the bedroom to play on her phone and binge tv. One day she says she befriended a woman through a Facebook group and they were local so we made plans to attend one of their parties. They turned out to be good people. Another couple that were a few years younger than us but they were very social and hosted events a lot at their place. At one of these events is where my wife was introduced to "he who shall not be named". I need to call him something though. Can he be Mr. Dipshit?

He was very unassuming, quiet, but covered in tattoos and reeked of attention seeking behavior. If my wife has a type it is apparently this guy. I didn't pick up on any vibes, clues, signals...nothing. She didn't outwardly flirt with him either. To that point I'd never had any reason to not trust my wife. "I'm going to friend a bunch of people from that party" she told me. "Me too, everyone seemed pretty cool". Time went on. Not much later my wife would express a desire to get bariatric surgery. We'd both tried every diet and every pill but nothing stuck. I mean, nothing buries feelings like carbs. I was at first unsure of how it would affect our relationship. Would she get hot and leave me for the pool boy? (Ok, we don't have a pool but as the reader you have the benefit of foresight). I was given many reassurances that we aren't that type of couple. Nothing like that could break us up. She got the surgery then a year later I got it. We dropped weight like watching ice melt under a blow torch.

She'd always craved attention but now she was on a new level. I was meant to somehow notice each pound as it disappeared and write sonnets in her honor, crying out to the world how remarkably beautiful she was. I wasn't raised that way though. I'd never learned from my parents and step parents how to really love someone and show affection. I provided. I made sure we had shelter, food, and clothes. I didn't complain that she lived in bed like one of the old folks on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (the original of course, remake was ok but come on...Gene Wilder am I right?). I didn't complain that she always had fibromyalgia issues that kept her from vacuuming or generally doing anything related to cleaning except on paydays where she magically had the energy to go shopping before I was even awake and aware the debit card was not in my wallet.

I was blissfully ignorant that everything was not as it seemed. We were never the type to hide our phones and we knew each others passwords and pin numbers for everything. I honestly don't know when the attraction between her and Mr. Dipshit (I'm sticking with it) moved into a new gear. Over the next 3 years we continued to hang out with our new couple friends but Mr. Dipshit lived too far away to attend. In the past 4 years I've seen him at two of the friends events and once to tour him through our current home we just moved into 18 months ago. This wasn't unusual because we toured a lot of family and friends through our new home. A house on 2 acres is a far cry from a doublewide in a trailer park (but it was a nice retirement kind of trailer park that people vacationed at, not the kind with permanent police presence). We had good reason to want to be proud of it.

When we moved in though something changed for me. We both had physically changed with the weight loss to the point we didn't recognize ourselves in old pictures or in new mirrors. We were both working but the mortgage hurts. Paycheck to paycheck. The house was bought at the height of the Covid craze in real estate so we paid top dollar and the budget is still trying to snap like an over stretched rubber band. I fell into a depression. I didn't want to hang out with our new friends as much. I was quiet and stand-offish when I did. She was having the time of her life and I just worried about paying bills and keeping the peace. I still had my two sons at home and we still had plenty of arguments over how the youngest was still being mean to her. Ultimatums were thrown my way but in reality I would never move that child back in with his bio-mom who had still kept herself out of the picture. Not even a birthday card. I chose poorly on that one.

My wife continued to hang out over there when I wasn't. I had no reason not to trust her. I had no reason to suspect anything. Even 8 or 9 years later we'd only spent maybe days apart. Both working from home we were still together every waking hour. She was accounted for. I just didn't feel like being around people. She did. She even got a matching tattoo with the wife of our couple friend. I have no tattoos. I have no trouble getting married for sex, but tattoos, those are permanent right? (Ok, so sex wasn't the only reason. She did make me happy more than she made me resentful so I guess that's on me). She wants to get tattoos with all her friends all of a sudden. Her and a childhood friend get matching roses one weekend. Then the ask, "Me and Mr. Dipshit want to get matching tattoos also! That's ok right? He's your friend too so it's fine right?" All said with the excitement of a child talking about the new puppy they're going to get.

It didn't sit well, of course. But being the trusting, codependent peacekeeper that I am I eventually ok'd it. After all "we're just friends and we just talk about his ex's and how bad his dates are and our trauma bond". Yuck. But he showed up one weeknight a few months after we'd moved in and off they went to the local tattoo shop and came back a few hours later with matching wildflower tattoos on their forearms. I agreed they looked cool, showed him around the house while my wife's feet were barely touching the floor, then he left and I haven't seen him since. To my knowledge neither has my wife.

Life resumed. Tv was binged. Naps were had. She continued to put in bare minimum all while complaining about my kids yet praising herself at the same time for being such an awesome mom to them since their mom abandoned them and I didn't have the guts to be the disciplinarian or teach them to respect her. "Shit husband" as she said recently. We had our first holiday season in this new to us house in '22 then in January '23 she was let go in a "rightsizing" event at our company. I was retained and still work at the same company. She was visibly depressed for a long time. Somewhere around March last year her daughter (who eventually had moved out of the house we were kicked out of only to move about 4 hours away from us) broke an ankle at work. My wife took the opportunity to go stay with her daughter while she was on the mend. My step-daughter had at some point broke up with the guy she'd left town with and was now living with a guy that was a roommate. They downsized to a one bedroom and started being a couple. Got sidetracked, sorry.

For the 4-6 weeks my wife was there with her daughter having their make up bonding time I barely talked to her. I didn't want to interrupt their time together since it had been years since any meaningful time was spent between them. Also, there just wasn't anything at home to talk about. She'd already stopped wanting to hear about my job a while back. Other than that I don't have hobbies other than gaming (which I quit about 4 months ago completely) and nothing really happened that was conversation worthy. I missed her but looking back I think I missed the routine we had. This time period is the only one I can't account for her whereabouts. And ol' Mr. Dipshit was now only 2 hours away for that time period. This was probably the actual event that triggered the escalation of her attention seeking behavior with Mr. Dipshit. I wouldn't know, I mean its not like I have access to her messages (or do I?....oooh, cliffhanger).

Nothing remarkable occurred for the next few months between her visit with her daughter and the open marriage conversation last September. She collected unemployment and TikTok viewing time. I worked. She was content to let us stay paycheck to paycheck because "focusing on a career or education right now just isn't what she's interested in". That and she "hates money because it's all her parents ever talked about". Also, I was reminded many times about how upset she was that I basically ignored her while she was gone and I must not have missed her at all and she's completely broken because of it. Ok, could I have put in more effort to communicate? Absolutely. The fact that I didn't was for the reasons I already stated. I didn't want to interrupt and there was nothing to talk about.

So now we've come full circle. About that cliffhanger. I couldn't let it go. I pulled the dashcam several times after she'd been out on her own and heard her telling everyone she could that she's going to leave me. Interestingly, if she was being truthful, she told one friend that she could tell Mr. Dipshit wanted her to leave me and move towards him so they could date but it was only hints. I hid voice recorders and caught more conversations saying the same things over and over. I had been a shit husband and she was going to leave, just as soon as she can get a job and her own vehicle. She won't break down and get a job in town as a cashier or anything because "that is just so humiliating that she has all this experience to waste it on being a cashier". She has a GED, 2 semesters of online school, and about 3 years experience in project management. Yeah, she wasn't exactly climbing the corporate ladder. "Would you rather be homeless?" I'd ask. That would at least get me a "Ok, tomorrow I'll look into it". You already can tell tomorrow never came.

I couldn't give up on the Facebook account either. I was determined. She was confident. Her phone started being left around when she showered. I'm not brave enough to touch it while she's sleeping. I've seen her go from full snore to up and moving to the bathroom without warning. Just too risky. But, I timed her shower routine. I studied her movements. I knew I had 5-7 good solid minutes when that curtain closed. So I plotted and schemed. How do I defeat a fingerprint scanner on a cell phone though? Turns out I didn't have to. I noticed my phone (also an Android) had a PIN option even if you enable fingerprints. You just have to swipe a different direction. Now I knew what I had to do. Try every single 4 digit combination that exists without locking her phone and somehow in the 5-7 minutes she showers. But it didn't take thousands of attempts. In the end it only took two. First was the same PIN she'd always used. My finger shook so bad from nerves that I waited a whole other day or two to try a different number. It was her birthday. Now I had her where I wanted her.

Over the next week or two I managed 2 solid sessions of recording her phone with my phone pointed at her screen while my finger scrolled through the message history with Mr. Dipshit. I could care less what she might be talking to her mom or anyone else about or if she was dragging me through the mud. But I didn't find what I wanted to find or expected to. The recent messages had the same stuff she was telling everyone else about her big plans to move out and work remotely and just "work on herself". Where was the sexting? The nudes, the weiner pics? Granted I could only scroll so far back in 5 minutes. But it was a lot of one-sided conversation where she sends memes and "oh woe is me" messages about how stupid I am and his responses of either "nice" or "that sucks".

So now what? Where's the betrayal? Was she really being honest with me that nothing had in fact happened and that they really were just good friends? If they'd hooked up then surely she'd still be talking about it or at least still sexting him. Maybe the no-contact requirement I put on her that night in September didn't work but maybe it at least woke her up to where she was headed. But I looked at my little videos closer and more carefully. I found something finally. "I don't even consider what we did cheating". Now, I could only go back to just a little before the September event. To this point today that's all I've got. Knowing my wife as well as I do I can see her making the old argument "well you weren't giving me any attention so I found someone who would so its your fault". I'm sure plenty of people here have heard that one. Oh, and there was one other one. You know those text messages she switched to after saying she was going no-contact? The first one she sent "I've decided to leave my husband. I'm single now. Show me your weiner. lol".

So, the morning after we have our argument and no-contact discussion she dropped conversations on Facebook (where she had shown me she was blocking him) and moved to text messaging and that's the first thing out of her fingers? Then I pulled out a few other messages like how he'd say something about not feeling great and she'd say she wished she was there to take care of him and run fingers through his hair, or ask if a blowjob would make his day better. You know, stuff everyone says to their "just a friend".

Ok readers, its late and I'm dog tired. I'll write some more tomorrow. If you made it this far....congrats??

posts: 31   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2024   ·   location: TX
id 8820783
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Jajaynumb ( member #83674) posted at 3:46 AM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

I’m sorry you’re here. You have enough proof and she’s stated she wants to go so lawyer up and move to divorce. She sounds toxic to you and your kids, you’ll be glad you got rid of her in time.

https://library.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/661294/worse-than-hell-yes-its-all-true/

posts: 174   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8820786
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 4:21 AM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

I am sorry you had to find us, but we’re a nice group :-)

A couple things:
1) Get STD tested ASAP. If you have sex with her, make sure to use protection until she is also tested and SHOWS you the results. As you have learned,liars lie a lot.
2) Understand that this has nothing to do with you. there is nothing you did or didn’t do— it is 100% on her. Don’t accept any blame for her chearting.
3) Take care of yourself. Eat healthfully, drink lots of water, avoid alcohol/drugs, get some exercise and sleep. You need clarity and healthy habits to get through this. And anything that numbs you just prolongs the pain and grief. This is a trauma and it does a number on your mind and body. Take of your body to help you mind. See your doctor if you are having anxiety or trouble sleeping.
4) See a lawyer or three. Find the sharks in towns and have informational sessions with them. This does two things. One, knowledge is power, so understanding what D (Divorce) looks like will help you feel in control. Also she can’t use any lawyers you consult with. Don’t tell her you are doing to do this. Also hide your evidence where she cannot access and never tell how you discovered.
5) Read in the healing library here on SI as well as the bullseyed posts in the Just Found Out forum. You will see you are not alone and that cheaters are a very unoriginal lot.
6) Consider IC (individual counseling) to help you work through your thoughts and figure out what YOU want. Some IRL folks to talk to can help too.
7) Keep posting. Others will be by with more advice, but first take care of YOU.

Sorry you are here. You will make it through this.

Me: BS 57 (49 on d-day)Him: *who cares ;-) *. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 6208   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8820788
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 4:30 AM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

I know I suggested you should start at the beginning and post in JFO, but damn…

"If nothing in life matters, then all that matters is what we do."

posts: 1330   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8820790
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 5:04 AM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

There is a lot of detail in your post, but bottom line is she is cheating on you. You need to read the pinned topics above, and the healing library.

You need to study and implement the 180, she has manipulated you for so long and blamed you for all her problems, you are beginning to believe it. Detach, turn around and 180 out of infidelity.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3600   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8820793
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 11:47 AM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

Your post in General made your wife sound extremely sneaky and the signs of her cheating subtle. Now that I’ve read your full story, I’m shocked that you think you need investigative apps or even a PI to "prove" that she’s cheating. The only thing your WW hasn’t done is have sex with him right in front of you.

As I suspected, you know that this woman is a dumpster fire and that your marriage is over except on paper… you are just too paralyzed by fear to actually do it. But trust me when I say that although divorce is harrowing, it’s more like purgatory than hell; you know it will eventually end. Hell is what you’re going through right now… daily humiliation and emotional torture with no end in sight.

At some point soon, your wife may take the decision out of your hands and file herself, but for the sake of your sanity, self esteem, and legal/financial future, I don’t recommend that you wait until she decides the time is most convenient and advantageous for her to file for divorce.

Also, I highly recommend you look up HurtHalo’s post in JFO. His situation is similar to yours in that his then-wife requested an open marriage out of the blue. Long story short, he eventually discovered that she had been cheating on him the entirety of their marriage. He’s now divorced and (last I heard) happy in his new relationship.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:52 AM, Wednesday, January 10th]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 2115   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8820801
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 1:22 PM on Wednesday, January 10th, 2024

Take the initiative. You gave it up after the log on the pc incident. You really gave it up even earlier with the matching tatoo with a male 'friend'. Take it back and get out of infidelity.

That might be seeing a D lawyer straight off and then offering her a D. Or telling her you know what she's been saying about you, that she's lying about contact with the guy and then tell her if she wants out, she can go to him right now. If she wants to work on the marriage, you can talk about what that looks like. But the charade she's playing and her lust for this guy are in no way acceptable.

She is blaming you for her infidelity, something seen quite often. She may not have gone to a PA yet but she is in limerance with this guy and you have become the bad guy that helps her rationalize her feelings for him. Act to get out of that cycle asap.

posts: 993   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8820807
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 Survivor24 (original poster new member #84314) posted at 6:00 PM on Thursday, January 11th, 2024

I appreciate everyone's feedback. Right now I know 2 things for sure. There was no physical affair it was just emotional and she's not throwing herself at him anymore since the event in September. I have access to her messenger history so I can see where there was some light sexting but by and large my wife is just enamored with him but he isn't reciprocating. The other thing is that she plans on leaving me regardless of anything I could say. I know what I sound like but she doesn't know I've read their entire chat history and heard dashcam audio when she's riding around with girlfriends and telling them all about how awesome Mr. Dipshit is and she's only leaving me because she's just tired of being a wife and mother and wants to live her own life independently. whatever.

I'm in counseling and seeing a psychologist. Initially it was to get diagnosed with anything I might have going on as far as narcissistic personality or borderline personality disorders, etc. You know, the things they tell you that you must be because you just treated them so horribly and they're "broken" now because of it. Projecting, I know.

As of today I know from overhearing conversation that she's getting a job for the sole purpose of getting a vehicle (we've only had 1 for years) then moving out by June. If she left right now there's nowhere for her to go to be honest. Other than a couch at a friends house her parents have already said she can't move in with them. My money would be on our stepdaughter that just moved back to town getting an apartment and my wife moving in with her as a home base.

It's a dangerous game but it's been interesting to interject something in conversation that's divorce related and then watch how she turns it into something else when she relays it to everyone that will listen to her. I just have so much evidence now of flat out lies, big and small. It's almost pathological when they lie to you about things that really don't matter.

posts: 31   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2024   ·   location: TX
id 8820882
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 8:44 PM on Thursday, January 11th, 2024

So what's your plan?

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 2115   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8820902
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 Survivor24 (original poster new member #84314) posted at 8:53 PM on Thursday, January 11th, 2024

Give her the option to leave a lot earlier than she was expecting. I'm just kind of over it. All the lies that I'm uncovering like "Hey, did you share our netflix login with Mr. Dipshit?"....Her: "No, of course not" and blamed the extra profile on a friend of hers but I've got the message with Mr. Dipshit saved where she literally gave him the login info and told him she was pretending it was her friends login. It's little stuff like that just as much as big stuff.

It's just so tough to process. We don't really argue much at all or fight. She can be extremely affectionate and everything. We still have intimacy almost every night. She still takes care of me if I'm sick. But it all looks fake when you know the person looking you dead in the eyes and saying she loves you is telling anyone that'll listen that she's leaving.

I'll know more after I catch up my therapist on what's going on and figure out how prepared I am to move on. We really only have debt to settle out. The house was overpriced to begin with so we'd owe money if we tried to sell it. There's no money to be made. She hasn't worked in a year so I know how I'll still be paycheck to paycheck. She's motivated now that she's decided to leave to find a job but even if I waited for her to leave on her own and keep playing house I don't expect she's really going to help pay our debts off before she leaves. She'll want to save all her money for a vehicle. She just doesn't have anywhere to go if I told her right now that I'm going to file. I'll be stuck with her here, playing house, pretending to be single online, basically acting like a 14 year old.

It's always messy isn't it?

posts: 31   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2024   ·   location: TX
id 8820903
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 4:15 AM on Friday, January 12th, 2024

Being in debt and taking a loss sucks, but you might actually be better off in the long run without an extra kid in the house (ie, your wife) who consumes resources without contributing any.

But the first thing you need to do, before you even see a lawyer, is stop having sex with her. If you're going to emotionally detach and make clear-headed decisions, then you can no longer let sex cloud your judgment or create a false sense of intimacy that doesn't exist.

As for her not having anywhere to go if you divorce, that's her problem to figure out, not yours. The challenge you will face, though, is that she might start pulling out all the stops to get you to stay once she realizes that the gray train is leaving the station.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 2115   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8820923
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Jajaynumb ( member #83674) posted at 6:02 AM on Friday, January 12th, 2024

Could you leave instead? Why wait around wondering when she’ll push the button, it’ll be emotional torture. Find an apartment and go.

https://library.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/661294/worse-than-hell-yes-its-all-true/

posts: 174   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8820927
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 11:54 AM on Friday, January 12th, 2024

Irrespective of the infidelity or not…
I see a lot of chaos.
I see mention of weed-smoking, drug-use, drink…
I see past marriages and kids…
I see indicators of financial instability… debt, renting at parents…
I see relational indecisiveness…
I see relational isolation where each is doing their thing – like mention of "her" friends and little mention of "our" friends…
I see a couple playing emotional chicken – daring the other to blink first…


My suggestion?
Focus on YOU.
Clean up YOUR life.
Lay off drugs, alcohol and all that stuff… Don’t have to come out as a self-proclaimed addict or aim for eternal sobriety, but maybe decide to lay off all mind-altering substances (from beer and weed to anything stronger) for maybe 30 days.
Go over your finances. Look seriously into the shovel you have (present income) and the hole you are digging (expenses). Then start looking at how you can stop digging deeper and/or get a bigger shovel and/or fill up that hole.

Get focus on your relationship. Like right now your wife has told you she wants out. So why isn’t she getting out? This is SO COMMON. A spouse says they want out, but they don’t do anything about it. Divorces aren’t on Santa’s list and won’t be found under any tree. If you want a divorce, you go get one; file, process and complete. Get to the bottom of what she WANTS.

The infidelity? Well… right now it’s a relatively minor issue per se. IF your wife wants a divorce no matter what, then if she’s already crossed a physical border might give you an explanation, but it won’t change the fact that IF she takes action and IF she wants the D then six months from now you will be divorced.

What is more important right now is to get it clear what her demand for D without actions for D really means.

To use a comparison (I find comparisons good because often we can’t think straight about personal situations, but they seem very clear when in a non-personal scenario):
Imagine your wife was an employee that you hired. If she was constantly telling you that she was quitting the job without ever handing in the resignation, and appearing on time each and every morning… Has she quit or hasn’t she?
Now imagine the employee made a big mistake. Like missed a deadline that cost you 1000. What would be the key to your decision on retaining or firing her? I guess it would be if it’s a learnable and avoidable mistake or if it was pure negligence that could/will be repeated. The basis for that decision would probably lie with the employee acknowledging what they did wrong.

What if the employee made the mistake and whenever you try to learn what happened and fix it they threaten to resign. Yet they don’t…

At what point would the best path be to let the employee go? If you did so, then you would probably hand her a formal notice.
If you see value or potential in the employee then at what point would it be best to set ultimatums like "listen – this issue needs to be addressed – you can resign, but if you want to resign then you need to hand in formal notice".

And finally: If the employee resigned but had a severance period, would you expect them to be at work early each morning with a smile on their face?

I think your marriage might be there… It might be where she is using the threat of divorce to either or both justify flirting with OM (or men in general or justifying her semi-single lifestyle) or to keep you in line. I think your marriage can’t move on until either happens: one or both of you commit to divorce OR both of you commit to reconciling. Part of the R process would be total honesty on what happened regarding OM.


What I can promise you 100% though is this:
Six days, months, years… from now when you wake up in the morning nobody can tell you who or what will be beside you in your bed, but when you stand in front of the mirror to shave, the person you see will be YOU. So focus on YOU.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12689   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8820937
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 Survivor24 (original poster new member #84314) posted at 6:54 PM on Friday, January 12th, 2024

In regards to why I just don't leave....I still have my two boys living here. We didn't have a kid together. Her kid is living with my wife's parents right now. Since I still have a kid in school and another son living with me and she has zero attachments here why should I leave? Plus she's not working and can't get a job that even could afford the mortgage. If I leave her the house then I have to find a place for me and two boys while she sits here for a few months without an income and the house gets foreclosed on and both our names are on the mortgage so my credit tanks.

No matter what she says about Mr. Dipshit I can tell from what she's told friends (that she doesn't know I know) is that she's going to end up living with him. So when she leaves here there will probably be a short period where she stays at her parents or a friends house but that'll only last until she starts dating Mr. Dipshit. My only silver lining is that I can see from the messages between them that she's just throwing herself at him. Anything positive he does she interprets as it was done for her. Says he stopped smoking? Well that's because she said she switched to vapes and now smoke hanging on her clothes and hair is gross. Fixed up the porch at the old trailer he bought because it was falling apart? Well that's only because she joked if she visited that she might get hurt on it. "He just makes so many positive changes even though I didn't ask him to!". He has no idea how deep she's gotten. He still dates girls and everything. I think she even has him convinced they're "just friends".

She's literally only loyal to her own feelings. And I can't fight a fantasy. Nobody can.

In all honesty I'm not even mad anymore. I've already spent months grieving the divorce that I just didn't want to say out loud that it's going to happen regardless. No matter what I do she's already decided its over and her only concern is just getting out. She'd probably sign anything I put in front of her right now.

posts: 31   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2024   ·   location: TX
id 8821067
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 8:57 PM on Friday, January 12th, 2024

Survivor, your reasons for not "leaving" your house make perfect sense to me. Often on SI I think people say that one should leave, but what they mean by "leaving" is getting physically separated and not sharing a domicile. Since she has already indicated her intention to shack up with Mr. Dipshit, you should really talk this over ASAP with a good lawyer. This guy might not still be available by the time she decides it's "go time." Then you will really find you needed legal advice.

I think filing now may be the way to go, but I'm not a lawyer. Just remember to protect your children and your real estate assets.

posts: 2197   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8821080
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 Survivor24 (original poster new member #84314) posted at 3:53 PM on Wednesday, January 17th, 2024

Baby steps....

Finally sent an email off to a few attorneys asking for consultation services. I'm going to do the divorce on my own to keep it affordable. They call this "pro se" in Texas. It's going to be uncontested without kids involved so everything is very straight forward. Most judges will sign off on just about anything in a divorce if both parties are in court saying they agree to whatever is in there.

Therapy is also going well. Kind of a tough love sort of approach but I think its appropriate since anything other than blunt honesty and I'd sit on this forever until she left on her own. Anyways, just an update.

posts: 31   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2024   ·   location: TX
id 8821426
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 1:06 AM on Thursday, January 18th, 2024

Thanks for the update. I hope you hear back from the attorneys pretty quickly.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3897   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8821470
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:29 PM on Thursday, January 18th, 2024

Survivor – on divorce I have views that might sound contradictory:

Make it as simple as you can.
I have a childhood friend who is a family attorney and does divorce. We ran into each other at a conference city some years ago and I sat down at his table with 4-5 other attorneys where they were discussing divorce. They stated that once they had the facts (debts, assets etc) they could predict with over 90% accuracy the final settlement. They also said that over half the attorney hours tended to be over issues worth less than the cost. Like spending 2 hours of legal fees at 600 per hour to argue over a 300-buck lawn-mower.

Simple is not the same as easy…
Like it might be simple to decide that she keeps her X-credit-card with the outstanding 5000 and you keep the Y-credit-card with the outstanding 5000. Each the same, each pays the same…
Only… What it both your names are on the application, or the cards issued to you as a couple or whatever… Two years from now you can get a call from a collection agency because you cosigned for the card she has defaulted on. You might have the option of suing her, but only once you have paid the outstanding debt.

With the above in mind…
If you two can find an amicable and agreeable outcome that you can both agree on, then it may well be worth the cost to have an attorney finalize the process.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12689   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8821585
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Hurthalo ( member #41782) posted at 3:57 AM on Monday, January 29th, 2024

Hi Survivor,

I hope you are going ok mate. The fact you have an evident sense of humour bodes well...even if it dark humour! As BluerthanBlue suggested, I had a thread in here about my own situation. Long story short, I had absolutely zero clue that my wife was engaging in an affair(s) until I got the 'oh I think I'm polyamorous actually' talk at what I thought was a routine MC check-up session. I quickly discovered that I had been getting played for a loooong time, and that my wife had been lying to me for years.

Likely preaching to the converted, but you can all but guarantee that by the time she had asked you for an open marriage, she's likely been 'at it' for longer than that. There's no way it was a rhetorical question, she was looking for confirmation and approval. Funnily enough, this prompt was enough to make me dive down the rabbit hole, and after going detective mode, was able to expose her hidden life rather quickly.

Needless to say, 18 months later, she no longer has the pleasure of having me as her husband.

At any rate, I read your story, and I just wanted to check in and see how you are going? Is she still throwing herself at Mr Dipshit? On that vein, I am hoping that you have moved quickly to get her to sign a settlement. Things might be slightly different here in Australia, but getting my ex to agree to an amicable settlement while she was still in love with schmoopie was a very beneficial thing to get done and signed by both lawyers quickly.

Slight update: Mr Schmoopie has since dumped her. laugh laugh

posts: 320   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2013   ·   location: Australia
id 8822803
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 Survivor24 (original poster new member #84314) posted at 4:45 PM on Friday, February 2nd, 2024

Thanks for the reply to my post. So far we haven't had "the talk". If she had a job and a car she'd be gone (according to everything I've "overheard"). We're playing house right now. I've had a few therapy sessions. Since I was gaslit about being a narcissist (because that's how narcissistic people project their issues onto partners) I started my sessions by getting through some psych tests and lo and behold I'm still the same codependent I've always been since my last marriage. She's really focused on these long shot work from home type jobs she's barely qualified for and won't just go into town and get any job she can to help us financially. I have had one or two conversations with lawyers about how to deal with our property but there's not much to deal with honestly. Just the house and the 2 acres it sits on that is mortgaged. I'm going to have to do the filing on my own ("pro se" here in the states). As long as there aren't kids involved and everyone agrees 100 percent on who gets what, etc you can do your own case here.

It's tough to give 100 percent of the details in our specific situation. If I told her today I want to proceed with divorce I think this is what would happen.
1. Feign surprise at my decision even though she's told every friend she has that she's going to leave me (eventually).
2. Get excited to ask Mr. Dipshit about dating because if we're getting divorced that basically makes her single right?
3. If he says anything other than "this is the happiest moment of my life, I'll be there to get you asap" she breaks back down and wants to reconcile.

From the conversations I've "overheard" she's really been the one pursuing this fantasy with the other guy. He has not pursued her if that makes sense. I can account for all her time and they've never been physical. It's all emotional, caught some feelings, type stuff and she hasn't told anyone about her asking for an open marriage, etc (asking permission to sleep with her crush). If she had to leave today, the only place I know she can go is her parents place but her daughter and daughters boyfriend are already there (temporarily) and I'm 99% sure she's already asked them if she can move in and they said no back when she was more fired up about breaking up. When her daughter and daughter's boyfriend are able to they'll get an apartment and my guess is she'd live with them. There's literally no other friends she has that I know of that have anything to offer other than a couch.

I have no reason to care about what happens to her after the divorce though right? I mean that's what everybody would say (including my therapist) that it isn't my problem to solve. Which I agree with. Not my monkeys, not my circus. Buuuut....she's unemployed. No car. No job. No prospects. No place to go unless her parents cave and set her up in their den or something. Literally the only place would be if Mr. Dipshit agreed to let her stay but from seeing their conversations I can't really tell if he's even into her the way she is into him. There's just so much fantasy built up in her head. I've thought about using the tax refund to buy a cheap cash car (1500 bucks or whatever) and give it to her. Considered renting a small storage unit for her so I can move her stuff out of the house and paying for it for say 6 months. I don't want to be married but she literally can't leave without someone giving her a place to stay. I think her plan was to get a job and save up enough to get a car and pay a deposit on an apartment somewhere. It would be pulling teeth to get her to help pay bills and she'll have reasons she can't. Even our debt from the marriage that she's half responsible for I do not expect her to ever help pay back.

Good times....

posts: 31   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2024   ·   location: TX
id 8823367
Topic is Sleeping.
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