Thank you all for the great insight! Different perspectives that I am not really familiar with. I am so glad I posted this.
Alonelyagain:
After sleeping together, I’m more willing to provide all the gory details which fill in the missing pieces. So I guess my question to you is where are you on that dating spectrum?
It has been since fall but just public dates once a week for quite awhile (my choice) and feels long enough that I need to decide if it should move to the next level. I am very nervous about covid so no physical beyond hand holding, hugs and quick pecks but honestly I am glad to have had the excuse. I feel like I need to know more before sleeping together as opposed to after. There is a good chance he is like you though, waiting before bringing more details up which puts us in a holding pattern.
A couple people brought up the Catholic thing, which he was very serious about to the point where he was very involved, but claims the demise of the marriage made him quit, although he still considers himself Catholic. He says he was all in on marriage, yet he quit wearing his wedding ring a number of years back he says because he was so angry at his ex for the mental manipulation of himself and his daughter. (not sure how that ties in with the mental illness---). He did say he felt like a referee when the daughter was a teen but more and more realized his wife was unstable.
Annie Oakley
How does he respond when you expressed sympathy for the ex? The thought of him presenting himself as noble for staying in the marriage rubs me the wrong way. And if he is giving you no details, how did or did he attempt to help her when the problems first started? I realize he couldn’t “fix” anything himself, but did he just sit back and watch her implode?
How long have you been dating? We all know if people want they can maintain a facade, but eventually it starts to crumble.
Finally, I think the most interesting “tell” may be that her daughter still has a relationship with him and not her? Does she seem to have empathy at least for her Mom or was it so terribly toxic she severed the relationship completely? What about other long term friends of their marriage, anyone that you have met to get another read?
He ignores my expression of sympathy for the ex, kind of just goes on to something else. He seems to have more anger or frustration, rather than empathy toward her. At first I thought if someone I loved had mental issues, I would feel compassion, not anger. But reading some of the insight here about being 24/7 with that, I can see I may come to that as well. I have been fortunate not to be familiar with it.
Yes him talking about being Nobel does bug me! It just strikes me wrong, like a fake sales pitch. He told me numerous times how friends were amazed at him for staying for so long.
As far as helping her I think I will ask more about that. That isn't too personal so maybe that will fill in some blanks! All he has said is he wanted counseling for her and for her to quit drinking, but she drank more and more. Lately he has added to the story that she took a lot of psychotropic medications for mood. He mentioned severe depression and then at the end of marriage her being diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. This is a lot of stuff.
The daughter did not speak to the mother for a long time but has started again and reports it to her Dad. I think one of the things that I question is I see no empathy from him and as far as I know either from the daughter. I asked him about that and he said his daughter holds a lot of anger towards the mother for manipulating her and just being cruel her entire childhood and teen years. Cutting her down etc. But that is being a jerk, not necessarily mental illness from what I am sorting out here.
Zebra mentioned sickness and health. I guess that is at the core here for me. If his reason, that he CLEARLY states for divorce is mental illness, not my wife was a jerk, then where do you draw the line on sickness and health.
EvenKeel: That is true! He goes on about how he didn't believe in divorce, but his wife had mental illness, so now he is divorced. It is just confusing. The story isn't complete, but like ALonely again mentioned, maybe he isn't willing to fill in those blanks yet. But for me I won't be comfortable enough to move forward unless they are filled in first.
Next time I see him I will ask what he did to help ex wife. It seems like it should be detailed. Real stories, not generalizations right? Not sure if it is a female thing, thinking there should be more details? Like "one time bla bla", not just I tried to get her to therapy? Also I will ask what he has learned/what he would do different as was suggested. That should be very informative.
Also, we will be meeting up with a group of his friends. This is a group that he claims told him he used to look so sad when it was time to go home to his ex, and encouraged him to get a divorce--- So there's that---- Not sure how to take that.
The lack of empathy for the ex really contrasts with how considerate and kind he is to everyone we come across. This divorce story is the only thing that has missing pieces.
[This message edited by Anna123 at 4:52 PM, March 18th (Thursday)]